7

votes

Do you sometimes allow gluten-free "candy cigarettes" to keep your household gluten-free?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 23, 2011 at 4:12 PM

On a rare occasion (like the Super Bowl...or a very large party at our house), I'll break out some organic blue corn chips. Since I'm VLC, they're not really an option for me, but I think it gives my husband a dose of "OK, we're not complete social pariahs because we can't have chips and dip while we watch the Super Bowl..." {He hasn't really told me this but I sense it...}

I'll occasionally make paleo baked goods or home-churned ice cream - very lightly sweetened - for my husband and 4-year-old. If company's coming, I'll use a paleo-friendly nut-flour or coconut-flour biscuit/muffin recipe to go with whatever paleo options I've prepared. Though I haven't done it yet, if I had a lot of company for dinner, I'd consider a taco party with soft organic corn tortillas.

I saw Chebe tapioca flour gluten-free pizza crust recently on a blog, and it has a very short ingredient list, comes highly rated on Amazon. I'm thinking about it for a once- or twice-monthly "pizza night" that my husband and daughter can enjoy. (Me? I might just have a lower-carb bowl full of cheese, sauce, and toppings, sans crust.)

My question here is: Do you (or your family members or guests) indulge in gluten-free alternatives for the sake of compromise, or to ease nostalgia (yours or theirs) for neolithic favorites which hasn't waned? Do you see these options as a way to keep your family on track in the long run instead of inspiring gluten-based binging or turning gluten-based foods into an ultra tempting forbidden fruit?

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on May 02, 2011
at 09:39 PM

that's the best input you've got for this thread? Really?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Yes, I do buy things for guests, and then encourage them to take them out on the road. They are just not tempting to me, so no huhu.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:08 PM

Yah, I'm not eating candy-cigs, I'm eating good for me food in a format I enjoy. With Butter.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:07 PM

Also, I still love hard cider, great wine, the mighty Gin and other liquors!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:05 PM

I cut myself slack. As long as I keep improving my health and I'm happy 'n feeling great, I do my best not to stress about it.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 24, 2011
at 02:15 PM

Yummy!! Looks delicious. Thanks for adding the recipe!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 01:44 PM

StephNY: I edited it in for you! The handful of herbs in the crust hide most of the cauliflower flavor.

5a726c5fe988a1783a39a75ff2ce82f7

(464)

on March 24, 2011
at 05:11 AM

Sure! And even though I'm trying to try as hard as possible to stay away from cheese, I'll take the recipe anyway :) Thanks!

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:24 AM

If you want to do homemade pizza, Bob's Red Mill makes a great GF pizza crust mix. The thinner you roll it out, the better the pizza.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:20 AM

For the Chicagoans in the crowd, Marcellos and Ranalli's make pretty good GF pizzas.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:19 AM

We do the same with the cupcakes and for pizza too. Most of the kid birthday parties here seem to involve pizza.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:48 PM

Oh and my wife makes amazing cheesey biscuits with it about once a month.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:47 PM

CariJayne - do you want me to post my coconut flour strawberry bread recipe?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:46 PM

i live near a BJ's. I didn't know they made one like that. that doesn't sounds too bad. I know it's not ideal but I love pizza. Of all foods on the planet, I miss pizza the most. I ate Filippis pizza the other day. It was amazing. First time in months. No negative reaction to the gluten surge either. I only avoid because of discipline. Thanks for the tip though.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:43 PM

cute pic lindsay

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:55 PM

I used to be cool(ish): http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/15336_185447421377_653246377_3389898_7669359_n.jpg

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:50 PM

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/lemmy_visits_glamor_shots/

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:49 PM

we tried making biscuits with coconut flour and they were the driest things EVER. I'd be interested in a good recipe as well

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:48 PM

give it up for the Kilmister!

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 23, 2011
at 09:47 PM

In my past life despite my full acknowledgement of their negligible nutritional value, I was a Pop-Tart FIEND - sadly even more intensely during my first pregnancy, during which I craved sugar with a vengeance.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:41 PM

I consider vulgarity to be its own art form, really.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Such is the life of late-20s hardcore CrossFit guys, I think.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:25 PM

"make some damn coconut flour brownies and eat them and enjoy them"... the swearing makes it so much funnier. Love it.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 23, 2011
at 09:19 PM

So funny; assuming I ate 3 meals daily all week, that would mean 4 meals/week of eating WHATEVER I wanted...which would get me nowhere in terms of weight loss goals, and in fact could probably make me gain. Ahhh to have that kind of freedom! :)

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:06 PM

Exactly- they do 80/20 paleo the same way that I might, but they consider their 20 open and free and I consider my 20 very limited and agonizing.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 23, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Do you mean from what the dudes at the gym are saying that they just don't overthink/agonize over this stuff and eat a slice of pizza every so often (if they can tolerate gluten)?

922038b6c0ca6a051cc4858218931456

(392)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Can we get a recipe?! Not that I particularly like cauliflower, but my friends are constantly after me because I don't eat pizza. Can't have cheese, so before Paleo I did cheeseless pizza. Now, I just order other stuff! But I wouldn't mind some cauliflower that I could load up with my own sauce and toppings!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:32 PM

This sounds like a great trade. If you are going to use your slack, do it with something you really enjoy.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:32 PM

Man, every once in awhile I read the back of the Pop Tarts box just to remind myself they are BAD, BAD, BAD. It's just like a whole bunch of chemicals mushed into a Pop Tart shape. LOL.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:58 PM

I've noticed in these sorts of threads and discussions that women seem to be much more inclined toward these things than the guys, though if the conversations with dudes at my gym are worth anything, it may just be that we (being the ladies) pathologize it more.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:57 PM

I've noticed in these sorts of threads and discussions that women seem to be much more inclined toward these things than the guys, though if the conversations with dudes at my gym are worth anything, it may just be that we (being the ladies) pathologies it more.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:14 PM

I used this recipe, except I subbed coconut oil for the olive oil, bourbon for the rum, honey for the agave, and added in a few walnuts: http://www.alwaysorderdessert.com/2008/08/midnight-cravings-fudgy-coconut-flour.html Not going to kid myself that it's "paleo," but it hit the spot when, ahem, lady-times came a-callin'.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:45 PM

That's what folks from down here call hospitality.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:15 PM

Here! Here! I made a batch of pumpkin almond butter brownies this weekend for the guys at work. I didn't even eat one myself, but I like to have the option. I will say I gave in and had a Blue Monster about a month ago at work. I hadn't had one if probably 4 or 5 months and now I swear the damn things are whispering my name from the machine. It's amazing how quickly the cravings can come back once you have something you have been avoiding.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:04 PM

Whoah, where's this coconut flour brownies recipe? ;-) (Sorry, maybe a food thread isn't the best to be reading while fasting)

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:41 PM

"organic blue corn chips", doom ! As for sweeteners, you might want to look into inulin (do read PaNU articles on FODMAPs too).

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:37 PM

"organic blue corn chips", doom !

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17 Answers

13
1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

on March 23, 2011
at 04:40 PM

Yes. I know that stuff isn't optimal, and I keep it to a very low percentage of my diet because I want to feel my best and perform at a high level, but, man, life is too short to exist in a state of deprivation.

I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again here; work with your emotional and mental health to reduce dependence on and cravings for sub-optimal foods, including periods of sustained abstinence, but if you spend three days desperately wanting brownies because you're PMSing and all you can think about is brownies, then make some damn coconut flour brownies and eat them and enjoy them, because in the grand scheme of things we are on this planet to be happy and have a good time.

Congratulations on all of you that have achieved mastery over your cravings and never go for the "candy cigarettes." But if you aren't there, to me it is better to indulge mindfully than to exist in a state of stressful Want, like a puppy staring out the window, longing to be outside.

Or, in the words of a greater man than I could ever hope to be: "You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools, But that's the way I like it baby, I don't wanna live forever."

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:55 PM

I used to be cool(ish): http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/15336_185447421377_653246377_3389898_7669359_n.jpg

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:48 PM

give it up for the Kilmister!

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:50 PM

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/lemmy_visits_glamor_shots/

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:43 PM

cute pic lindsay

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:04 PM

Whoah, where's this coconut flour brownies recipe? ;-) (Sorry, maybe a food thread isn't the best to be reading while fasting)

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:15 PM

Here! Here! I made a batch of pumpkin almond butter brownies this weekend for the guys at work. I didn't even eat one myself, but I like to have the option. I will say I gave in and had a Blue Monster about a month ago at work. I hadn't had one if probably 4 or 5 months and now I swear the damn things are whispering my name from the machine. It's amazing how quickly the cravings can come back once you have something you have been avoiding.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:25 PM

"make some damn coconut flour brownies and eat them and enjoy them"... the swearing makes it so much funnier. Love it.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:14 PM

I used this recipe, except I subbed coconut oil for the olive oil, bourbon for the rum, honey for the agave, and added in a few walnuts: http://www.alwaysorderdessert.com/2008/08/midnight-cravings-fudgy-coconut-flour.html Not going to kid myself that it's "paleo," but it hit the spot when, ahem, lady-times came a-callin'.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:08 PM

Yah, I'm not eating candy-cigs, I'm eating good for me food in a format I enjoy. With Butter.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:41 PM

I consider vulgarity to be its own art form, really.

5
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on March 23, 2011
at 07:35 PM

This is a serious edit:

I came back here to actually answer the question, instead of just posting a pic from my collection of Primal Cookery photos that I have taken in the last year or so...

http://flickr.com/gp/27184499@N06/85A52c Primal Cookery link

My household loves the occasional variation in the strictness of the elimination rules. When we do this, we are still eating things that are much better than what we used to eat, while avoiding the most poisonous items.

Some things are forever off the list, like bread made with gluten grains and CAFO meats (eww).

Some are rarities/unexpected treats: Example, when we went out for dinner on Valentine's day. Having given the restaurant warning that we were gluten-free, they came to the table with a batch of gluten-free dinner rolls that their pastry chef had made as a challenge, served with local butter. (now really, how could you not try them?) Turns out they were some mix of rice and almonds.

Some happen about monthly, like the Cheese (cauliflower) pizza {see below} with green olives, mushrooms, and other veggies or the almond flour biscuits that my wife makes. They get served up with butter, eggs, and bacon.

We are not strict, and prefer being happy. Being relaxed about life can lower that cortisol level and improve sleep, too.


Here is my good example of what we like at my house.

We'll be having cauliflower cheese pizza tonight!

do-you-sometimes-allow-gluten-free-

Roughly: 1 cup shredded steamed cauliflower 1 cup mozzarella cheese shredded 1 or 2 eggs handful of mixed Italian herbs for flavor

bake for 12-15 min at 450F, take the crust out and add all the toppings, and put it back in for 10 minutes or until the cheese on top is just browning.

(I use grassfed cheese if I can find it, organic if I cannot, conventional cheese gives me trouble) Applegate farms has a pretty good pepperoni. This is super delicious with a homemade meat sauce as the red sauce.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 24, 2011
at 02:15 PM

Yummy!! Looks delicious. Thanks for adding the recipe!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 01:44 PM

StephNY: I edited it in for you! The handful of herbs in the crust hide most of the cauliflower flavor.

922038b6c0ca6a051cc4858218931456

(392)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Can we get a recipe?! Not that I particularly like cauliflower, but my friends are constantly after me because I don't eat pizza. Can't have cheese, so before Paleo I did cheeseless pizza. Now, I just order other stuff! But I wouldn't mind some cauliflower that I could load up with my own sauce and toppings!

5
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 23, 2011
at 05:00 PM

I guess it depends on your reaction to gluten. If you are just doing paleo for fitness or something, I say have a slice of grandma's cake. But if you are like me and that would give you a serious stomach-ache, then it's time to look for alternatives. I think having them available makes it MUCH easier and nicer to be gluten-free. For work parties and potlucks I sometimes purchase or make gluten free cupcakes or cookies. I often meet other gluten free people that way too!

4
Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:42 PM

i made GF pizza for my kids last night! i had a bite. it was ok. thin and crispy how i like it. i get them the rice pasta for mac and cheese sometimes, too. and puffed rice cereal. we have GF beer around for my husband, but he doesnt like it so usually just goes with the real stuff once a week or so. hes only paleo by default though. so are my kids. they dont mind the corn tortillas (or, they have the brains not to say anything to me about it.) im trying to get into and stay in ketosis, so its all off limits for me anyway. and, i dont monitor what my family eats when they are outside my house- its when they are IN my house that they have to eat what i buy and prepare. im willing to compromise to an extent.

4
22212e9ba2a041e6da6c963d4d41615a

(5773)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:45 PM

Every Saturday and Sunday I make My sons Gluten Free Pancakes and occasionally I will give them gluten free cookies. For myself, I stay pretty strict because I dont miss those foods and rather would have a glass of wine.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:32 PM

This sounds like a great trade. If you are going to use your slack, do it with something you really enjoy.

3
0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:33 PM

Yes to all of your questions. Mainly for the kiddos. I just don't see the harm. They have a high quality meat and veggie diet with NO gluten. A few high quality grains, perhaps soaked, can't hurt too much. It is way better than the crap that I was raised on - Pringles, poptarts, and crap.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 23, 2011
at 09:47 PM

In my past life despite my full acknowledgement of their negligible nutritional value, I was a Pop-Tart FIEND - sadly even more intensely during my first pregnancy, during which I craved sugar with a vengeance.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 23, 2011
at 07:32 PM

Man, every once in awhile I read the back of the Pop Tarts box just to remind myself they are BAD, BAD, BAD. It's just like a whole bunch of chemicals mushed into a Pop Tart shape. LOL.

3
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on March 23, 2011
at 06:32 PM

Oh yes! This is the only way I survive. On days like this I label myself Primal and invoke the 80/20% rule. Works like a charm.

3
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on March 23, 2011
at 05:19 PM

I bought a gluten free frozen pizza at the health food store for myself and it was... different. It was still a better option than the gluten/sugar/sodium bomb of regular pizza.

I was always an "everything in moderation" person until I became Paleo and that part of me still pops up here and there. My household is not gluten free and not likely to ever become gluten free, so the candy cigarettes are entirely for me. They are not a daily choice and mostly not even a weekly choice, but I do like to have the option.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:24 AM

If you want to do homemade pizza, Bob's Red Mill makes a great GF pizza crust mix. The thinner you roll it out, the better the pizza.

2
1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

on March 23, 2011
at 10:14 PM

Our household just went gluten free(tired of cross contamination).Candy cigarettes will abound for awhile,as my poor BF tries to understand what he can and can't bring in the kitchen.As long as the Dark Side has cookies,there is no hope of converting him...just placating.I will rarely buy some Udis muffins or an Against the Grain pizza for myself.

2
4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:45 PM

There's a pizza chain out here in Tucson/Phoenix called Picazzo's and they have GF crusts. They also claim no nitrates in their meat and just in general no preservatives in their organic ingredients.

We've eaten there twice and I don't feel bad at all about using their GF crust as a "candy cigarette". Like somebody said earlier, life is too short to deprive yourself of things, just make sure you enjoy some things in moderation. <---My humble opinion

2
07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

on March 23, 2011
at 08:54 PM

If you gluten-free pizza eaters live near a BJs, they have a really good one. It has a super thin crust that is made of rice flour, tapioca starch, olive oil and some herbs. So it's not that horrible as a once in a awhile cheat. I get it every few weeks. It's seriously good and you can have any of the toppings except the meatballs. Tastes exactly like a lot of the thin crust New York pizzas to me, no weird gluten-free pizza taste.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:46 PM

i live near a BJ's. I didn't know they made one like that. that doesn't sounds too bad. I know it's not ideal but I love pizza. Of all foods on the planet, I miss pizza the most. I ate Filippis pizza the other day. It was amazing. First time in months. No negative reaction to the gluten surge either. I only avoid because of discipline. Thanks for the tip though.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:20 AM

For the Chicagoans in the crowd, Marcellos and Ranalli's make pretty good GF pizzas.

2
9722850c9a1c47b79edf7c4233040248

(1276)

on March 23, 2011
at 06:21 PM

I totally do this (gluten does a number on me). Life is for enjoying, and I get the maximum enjoyment out of living on a paleo diet with a few treats thrown in. My health wouldn't be any better (or only marginally better) by being paleo 100% of the time, and it's not like I'm eating gluten-free toast for breakfast with gluten-free pasta for lunch, snacking on gluten-free cookies during the afternoon "brain fog" and rounding it off with a couple of gluten-free beers every night, like the celiacs in my family do.

2
9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:43 PM

I have some normal beer in the fridge, I never mention my own preferences unless asked.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 23, 2011
at 05:45 PM

That's what folks from down here call hospitality.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Yes, I do buy things for guests, and then encourage them to take them out on the road. They are just not tempting to me, so no huhu.

2
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:30 PM

Yes, we do this for birthdays. I've made a batch of gluten-free cupcakes for the children to take to other people's parties, too, so they don't feel so left out.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 02:19 AM

We do the same with the cupcakes and for pizza too. Most of the kid birthday parties here seem to involve pizza.

1
95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 24, 2011
at 01:40 AM

You bet! It keeps everyone on track since gluten isn't an option for any of us. Without the occasional "candy cigarette" the corn cobs take over, and we all know corn is not paleo. :-)

We usually have homemade GF cookies or GF cupcakes for our occasional sanity checks. For birthdays, we always break out the GF cake. Birthdays are the one time I miss cake, but luckily there are many great recipes for GF cake around that can be tinkered with to reach cake nirvana.

1
5a726c5fe988a1783a39a75ff2ce82f7

on March 23, 2011
at 08:05 PM

I just bought 4 lbs. of coconut flour, and I'm anxious to bake anything and everything! Can I please have you biscuit/muffin recipe? Thanks! :-D

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:47 PM

CariJayne - do you want me to post my coconut flour strawberry bread recipe?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 23, 2011
at 11:48 PM

Oh and my wife makes amazing cheesey biscuits with it about once a month.

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on March 23, 2011
at 09:49 PM

we tried making biscuits with coconut flour and they were the driest things EVER. I'd be interested in a good recipe as well

5a726c5fe988a1783a39a75ff2ce82f7

(464)

on March 24, 2011
at 05:11 AM

Sure! And even though I'm trying to try as hard as possible to stay away from cheese, I'll take the recipe anyway :) Thanks!

0
9debd1b7b1c7cd081d393ea39e6a2271

on May 02, 2011
at 08:02 PM

yyyyep, youre all VERY psychotic...organic chips for the super bowl, its the SUPER BOWL...live a little, WOW.....just.....WOW

4d10a09dadeb266681418f5fe06c3f00

(115)

on May 02, 2011
at 09:39 PM

that's the best input you've got for this thread? Really?

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