1

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Are you "what your father ate"?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 23, 2010 at 5:37 PM

I had always assumed that the introduction of the SAD in our previous generation had detrimental epigenetic effects in our current one. This article seems to clinch it.

Thoughts?

http://web5.cns.utexas.edu/news/2010/12/you-are-what-your-father-ate/

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 25, 2010
at 03:17 AM

SOme people may have a genetically better ability to recycle and minimize useage of certain vitamins and those people may be able to do better on more ag based diets. Also, we assume that there is less natural selection now than in the past, but I think people overlook all the pregnancies that fail in the first trimester. The doctors say they have no idea why that happens, but could be that ag based SAD diets contribute a lot. Those that are least able to tolerate it may not even make it to birth!

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on December 24, 2010
at 09:50 PM

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but wasn't Tim's point in raising Pottenger's cats (in this thread about epigenetics) that they supposedly got weaker with each generation. I don't know that the explanation for that *is* epigenetic but presumably that's what's interesting here, not anything to do with taurine per se.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 24, 2010
at 02:17 PM

Thanks Jack! I don't think my dad had any issues, but you never know. He definitely wasn't being treated for anything. It just appeared one day while he was in his 40s.

918ecd2369c4e8cd6a2d66846c20137c

(285)

on December 24, 2010
at 08:12 AM

Although there are some AI diseases that lymphoma patients are at a higher risk of developing [mostly blood-related, like hemolytic anemia and ITP], it would be unusual for an NHL patient to develop celiac. There definitely IS a link between many AI diseases & NHL, but it’s usually the reverse of the scenario you describe. Patients with an underlying AI disease, like celiac or arthritis, develop more lymphomas than patients without these diseases. This risk may be related both to the disease itself as well as the powerful immunosuppressant drugs used to treat it.

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on December 24, 2010
at 12:37 AM

Thanks, Jay, seriously I gotta go back over that stuff!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 24, 2010
at 12:03 AM

Pottinger's cats were taurine deficient. Cat's can't synthesis taurine, like humans can. Taurine is destroyed in the cooking process. Cat food today is cooked, with taurine added back in afterwards. Pottinger's experiment is incorrectly understood by raw foodists. If anything, it provides an argument that humans are adapted to a cooked food diet, unlike cats.

Efc949694a31043bfce9ec86e8235cd7

(970)

on December 23, 2010
at 06:57 PM

Fantastic insight, Heather! I do look at facial structure, especially jaw/teeth. I can only imagine how much healthier we'd all look if the SAD kooks hadn't prevailed over traditional diets. My parents' backgrounds are very similar: dad was a Czech farmboy, mom was poor and malnourished in Japan. I ended up needing braces. :(

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on December 23, 2010
at 06:44 PM

Facial structure is there every day to look at! Our own in the mirror, all the friends/family and strangers around us. It is hard NOT to look at faces in that nutritional light after reading Weston Price and Pottinger's work.

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6 Answers

1
531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

on December 24, 2010
at 03:12 PM

Interesting if true. Frankly I'm skeptical without knowing, among other things, the methodology of the mouse study and some sort of mechanism for transfer of "epigenetic" changes to offspring.

We have one controlled study and two epidemiological studies here. A lot of smoke but very little fire.

1
9722850c9a1c47b79edf7c4233040248

(1276)

on December 23, 2010
at 06:26 PM

Interesting. To speak from my own experience, my dad was the son of a milk man, and they lived on a rural farm, which translates to lots of milk (maybe even grass-fed and unpasteurized?) and lots of game and probably grass-fed ruminants. His parents were born in America, but so entrenched in their town's ethnic community that their habits and customs were very old-European. Dad's facial structure and dental arches are nearly perfect, at least compared to the average American. My facial structure and arches aren't nearly so good, but I'm the only 24 year old I know who didn't need braces for cosmetic reasons as a kid. I could have used them to straighten some back teeth, and my lower jaw is obviously small to anyone who knows something about facial structure, but lay-people are shocked to see my smile and learn that I never had braces.

My mom's dental arches are terrible - her parents were born in poor-food situations in the depression and grew up on white flour products and then fed their 10 kids that for cheapness (8 of them are diabetic now), and then I was conceived in the low-fat craze. It's almost certain that she wasn't getting nearly enough A, D, or K, or any other vitamin for that matter, yet my face wound up okay, maybe because of my dad? Or because I was the first kid? My younger sister's face is much worse off (as in, she'd honestly have looked ugly and deformed if she hadn't gotten braces), probably because I took what few vitamins my mom's body had in utero.

I know the article wasn't about facial structure, but it's the easiest one to relate to for my situation.

Efc949694a31043bfce9ec86e8235cd7

(970)

on December 23, 2010
at 06:57 PM

Fantastic insight, Heather! I do look at facial structure, especially jaw/teeth. I can only imagine how much healthier we'd all look if the SAD kooks hadn't prevailed over traditional diets. My parents' backgrounds are very similar: dad was a Czech farmboy, mom was poor and malnourished in Japan. I ended up needing braces. :(

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on December 23, 2010
at 06:44 PM

Facial structure is there every day to look at! Our own in the mirror, all the friends/family and strangers around us. It is hard NOT to look at faces in that nutritional light after reading Weston Price and Pottinger's work.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 25, 2010
at 03:17 AM

SOme people may have a genetically better ability to recycle and minimize useage of certain vitamins and those people may be able to do better on more ag based diets. Also, we assume that there is less natural selection now than in the past, but I think people overlook all the pregnancies that fail in the first trimester. The doctors say they have no idea why that happens, but could be that ag based SAD diets contribute a lot. Those that are least able to tolerate it may not even make it to birth!

1
0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

on December 23, 2010
at 06:14 PM

Oh good golly yes. Google up "Pottinger's Cats" and you'll get another good look at this. Glad my folks were both farm kids, raised on veggies, meat and guts. Maybe there is hope for my baby boy!

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on December 24, 2010
at 12:37 AM

Thanks, Jay, seriously I gotta go back over that stuff!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 24, 2010
at 12:03 AM

Pottinger's cats were taurine deficient. Cat's can't synthesis taurine, like humans can. Taurine is destroyed in the cooking process. Cat food today is cooked, with taurine added back in afterwards. Pottinger's experiment is incorrectly understood by raw foodists. If anything, it provides an argument that humans are adapted to a cooked food diet, unlike cats.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on December 24, 2010
at 09:50 PM

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but wasn't Tim's point in raising Pottenger's cats (in this thread about epigenetics) that they supposedly got weaker with each generation. I don't know that the explanation for that *is* epigenetic but presumably that's what's interesting here, not anything to do with taurine per se.

0
1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

on December 24, 2010
at 02:48 PM

Wow..interesting to think about. My father's side seemed to run towards small families,usually no more than two kids.Both families were well off,fairly rural, with access to fresh foods.Everyone on that side seems to be tall,with few dental issues.My mother, on the other hand, is seven of thirteen,from a poor urban area.She very short in stature, and has had major health issues(including dental), as have most of her brothers and sisters.Her father, though, was rural raised and almost 7 feet tall..my maternal grandmother, also rural, was tall and healthy.My brother and I are a mixed bag..I got short stature and health issues,he came out tall and seems perfectly fine.Perhaps because he was first? We ate about 70% healthy and 30% junk.His diet is now very SAD(he and his wife eat out 4 times a week),and I have a feeling it will catch up soon.

0
4e184df9c1ed38f61febc5d6cf031921

(5005)

on December 24, 2010
at 12:18 AM

So - it looks like it's not the sins of the fathers that are passed on to the next generations - it's the diet of the fathers! I knew there was something wrong there...

0
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on December 24, 2010
at 12:14 AM

I don't know entirely how this relates, I'm kind of hopeless still on some of the science, but I just heard on one of Robb Wolf's podcasts a mention that non hodgkin's lymphoma is linked to celiac.

My dad passed away from complications from non hodgkin's lymphoma and it's making me wonder if I have a greater genetic disposition to have celiac (I've never thought I reacted at all to gluten, honestly) or possibly for non hodgkin's lymphoma.

It was a huge surprise to me. I remember researching non hodgkin's lymphoma when he was first diagnosed, but was looking more at his options and expected longevity, not causes. I do know that I have even more reasons to eat Paleo now though.

918ecd2369c4e8cd6a2d66846c20137c

(285)

on December 24, 2010
at 08:12 AM

Although there are some AI diseases that lymphoma patients are at a higher risk of developing [mostly blood-related, like hemolytic anemia and ITP], it would be unusual for an NHL patient to develop celiac. There definitely IS a link between many AI diseases & NHL, but it’s usually the reverse of the scenario you describe. Patients with an underlying AI disease, like celiac or arthritis, develop more lymphomas than patients without these diseases. This risk may be related both to the disease itself as well as the powerful immunosuppressant drugs used to treat it.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 24, 2010
at 02:17 PM

Thanks Jack! I don't think my dad had any issues, but you never know. He definitely wasn't being treated for anything. It just appeared one day while he was in his 40s.

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