1

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References for adjustment to gassy foods?

Answered on June 08, 2013
Created March 12, 2013 at 5:14 AM

I've got some relatives who say that they can't eat leafy greens because it makes them very gassy. I recall reading some posts from Dr Ayers (Cooling Inflammation blog) describing the problem as one of the microme. Bacteria in our gut need time to adapt to consuming the byproducts of veggie digestion. Does anyone have some good references that I show covering this topic? I'd like some convincing evidence that it exists and possibly some guidelines about what type of diet needs to be maintained for how long for the effects to dissipate.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:45 PM

I absolutely don't doubt that diet can affect the gut microbiome (it has to get in there somehow!), but gut trumps diet and not vice versa. For example, I ate dairy (goat and cow, both milk and cheeses) for years when I was a vegetarian but still clearly after I became lactose intolerant. I didn't even realize what was going on at first. I just accepted pain and bloating as "normal". So, if 3-4 years couldn't "fix" my gut, I'm wary to suggest "your gut will always figure it out" as a realistic answer. But to reiterate, when it comes to just bulk/fiber, I do think the body will adjust.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:19 PM

and this http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/06/gut-bugs-they-are-what-you-eat/ "the dominant species of bacteria in the gut microbiome, as it’s known, may change in accordance with your diet — at least if you stick with a particular diet for a long enough period of time".

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:17 PM

and this http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/06/gut-bugs-they-are-what-you-eat/

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:17 PM

For example, if you google "digestive enzymes adapt diet", a host of links come up, including this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6185981 in which the authors state: "It thus appears that altering the amount of starch intake leads to a parallel change in the activity of all the enzymes involved in the sequential hydrolysis of the dietary carbohydrates."

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:16 PM

for example, if you good "digestive enzymes adapt diet", a bunch of stuff comes up, like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6185981: "It thus appears that altering the amount of starch intake leads to a parallel change in the activity of all the enzymes involved in the sequential hydrolysis of the dietary carbohydrates".

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:10 PM

Hmm, ok I'm confused then. I attended an inpatient treatment for anorexia, and it was drilled into us that we'd starved off our good bacteria and would feel less bloated once our gut flora adjusted to our new diets I can cut and paste some materials on this. So my thinking is that the same logic might apply to anyone who cut out a food group for a considerable period of time.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:57 PM

I do not believe that people "adjust" to fiber like this. More bulk being digested, sure, it's a possibility. However, *Bacteria in our gut need time to adapt to consuming the byproducts of veggie digestion* - no ... the gut doesn't need time to adapt, if you desire to continue eating these foods, the best you can do is introduce probiotics that only *might* help (if they take root, and maintain in your gut). For example, specifically, what species and at what dose probiotic should I take to eat broccoli without pain? I believe this question is unanswerable (so I only eat small amounts).

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 03:23 PM

I agree with your info here, however I'm not sure it addresses the question. I posed a similar question here -http://paleohacks.com/questions/76767/cant-wrap-my-head-around-one-aspect-of-robb-wolfs-30-day-challenge#axzz2NKRzYXBs. So for example someone who adopts a higher-veg diet may be gassy at first, but then adjust. I've also seen this stated as fact but can't recall where - I think it was in regards to refeeding anorectic patients.

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3 Answers

0
400b249032e4c829c4e802436833ea3b

on June 08, 2013
at 07:47 AM

Try a low FODMAP diet.

0
543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on May 25, 2013
at 04:09 AM

Some of the studies on Resistant Starch may be of interest (and hopefully of relevance to your question),
quite a few relate to changes to gut (fecal) bacteria and fermentation (a pubmed search will reveal plenty of results).

This one has has a lot of info; Resistant Starches Types 2 and 4 Have Differential Effects on the Composition of the Fecal Microbiota in Human Subjects,
Have a look at Figure 3 for a quick idea of changes to "human fecal microbiota in response to the consumption of crackers containing RS2, RS4, and native wheat starch (control)".

Here's a study that showed that daily excretion of fecal nitrogen (flatulence) increased during a high RS diet; source ...
....but the good news could be that this is only temporary during an 'adjustment' period;
currently there are a few people commenting over here who are 'supplementing' with unmodified (raw) potato starch (which is very high in RS2).
A few (possibly most?) have experienced increased gassiness/flatulence, but it improves (reduces/normalises) over time. & can possibly be mitigated if the RS2 (unmodified potato starch) is initially introduced in smaller amounts and increased slowly.

0
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 12, 2013
at 01:33 PM

I think you're conflating two separate sources of possible stomach pains.

First, it's true, some people don't handle large (or much at all) quantities of leafy greens. This is often explained away as irritation from insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber or "roughage" is harsh on the system, and those with other ailments or with IBS or related issues usually avoid it.

Second, gas can be caused by specific types of fermentable sugars/carbs in various foods that are digested (or not digested) by bacteria in the gut microbiome. Many here, for example, have found success identified foods which trouble them using a FODMAPs type elimination diet (which focuses on fermentable oligosaccharides). For example, I have issues with diary (lactose) and raffinose (broccoli/related and beans), but I can eat most fruits. Others may have issues with fruits, but not dairy. The types of bacteria in the gut can change how we handle these sugars.

Some people, especially those only hurt by lactose, have had some luck supplementing with courses of probiotics. However, many people rely on products like "Lactaid" and "Bean-o" if they want to indulge in these foods.

So, for further study, I would suggest finding research on "trouble with insoluble fiber" as well as "FODMAP" or "fermentable oligosaccharides".

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:17 PM

For example, if you google "digestive enzymes adapt diet", a host of links come up, including this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6185981 in which the authors state: "It thus appears that altering the amount of starch intake leads to a parallel change in the activity of all the enzymes involved in the sequential hydrolysis of the dietary carbohydrates."

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:57 PM

I do not believe that people "adjust" to fiber like this. More bulk being digested, sure, it's a possibility. However, *Bacteria in our gut need time to adapt to consuming the byproducts of veggie digestion* - no ... the gut doesn't need time to adapt, if you desire to continue eating these foods, the best you can do is introduce probiotics that only *might* help (if they take root, and maintain in your gut). For example, specifically, what species and at what dose probiotic should I take to eat broccoli without pain? I believe this question is unanswerable (so I only eat small amounts).

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:10 PM

Hmm, ok I'm confused then. I attended an inpatient treatment for anorexia, and it was drilled into us that we'd starved off our good bacteria and would feel less bloated once our gut flora adjusted to our new diets I can cut and paste some materials on this. So my thinking is that the same logic might apply to anyone who cut out a food group for a considerable period of time.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:45 PM

I absolutely don't doubt that diet can affect the gut microbiome (it has to get in there somehow!), but gut trumps diet and not vice versa. For example, I ate dairy (goat and cow, both milk and cheeses) for years when I was a vegetarian but still clearly after I became lactose intolerant. I didn't even realize what was going on at first. I just accepted pain and bloating as "normal". So, if 3-4 years couldn't "fix" my gut, I'm wary to suggest "your gut will always figure it out" as a realistic answer. But to reiterate, when it comes to just bulk/fiber, I do think the body will adjust.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:17 PM

and this http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/06/gut-bugs-they-are-what-you-eat/

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 09:16 PM

for example, if you good "digestive enzymes adapt diet", a bunch of stuff comes up, like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6185981: "It thus appears that altering the amount of starch intake leads to a parallel change in the activity of all the enzymes involved in the sequential hydrolysis of the dietary carbohydrates".

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 03:23 PM

I agree with your info here, however I'm not sure it addresses the question. I posed a similar question here -http://paleohacks.com/questions/76767/cant-wrap-my-head-around-one-aspect-of-robb-wolfs-30-day-challenge#axzz2NKRzYXBs. So for example someone who adopts a higher-veg diet may be gassy at first, but then adjust. I've also seen this stated as fact but can't recall where - I think it was in regards to refeeding anorectic patients.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 12, 2013
at 10:19 PM

and this http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/06/gut-bugs-they-are-what-you-eat/ "the dominant species of bacteria in the gut microbiome, as it’s known, may change in accordance with your diet — at least if you stick with a particular diet for a long enough period of time".

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