3

votes

Sadly, its looks like I HAVE to get my gallbladder out. Bile salts, lipase, any other feedback or advise?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 04, 2012 at 10:55 AM

I seem to have a chronic gallbladder infection, thats getting worse, despite a good paleo diet, and several courses of yucky anti-biotics. The pain and burping keeps excalating, and even the less than optimal ABs arent keeping it at bay now.

(BTW, this is a NO STONES, deal. This has no connection whatsoever with gallstones, this infection)

Interestingly I can tolerate heavy cream though. I am not sure how common it is to tolerate some high fat foods. My

I am determined to stipulate, emphatically, and legally, that if they find a healthy GB to leave the MF in! I do not want to lose my GB, unless my health/life depends on it.

But sadly, it does kinda look really like this sort of thing, and untreated eventually becomes life threatening. (Massive burping, epigastric pain, screwy lfts, initially fever and chills, serial ultrasound shows clear inflammation in the form of GB wall thickening)

And I do regret this turn of events, because theres no way I want a SAD high carb, low fat diet. Id honestly prefer to stay lowish carb, and high fat, but probably med fat, med carb is more realistic, if thats even possible. And the GB also seems to produce k2, and possibly balance estrogen, so it looks like without it, I am going to need a few supplements. :/ Clearly the GB is alot more important than the fat phobic CW doctors would generally have us beleive.

I have read some great advice about using emulsified fats, olive oil, avocado etc, eating smaller portions. Good Stuff, and great tips.

This is kinda a multi-pronged question, and hopefully not retreading ground.

Basically I want to know : Has anyone gotten decent effect from bile salts or lipase in aiding fat digestion? Is there a combined "fat digestion" product that has both perhaps?

Also, how many of you have total tolerance to fat versus those that can barely handle most fats?

(Did anyone tolerate fats okay, painwise, before their surgery?)

I realise this is a well explored topic, the gallbladder, but hopefully I have introduced some unanswered elements and people are happy sharing their story.

Thanks alot, in advance for any light you can shed here!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 08:24 PM

That is the one! http://paleoparents.com/featured/how-to-enjoy-bacon-without-a-gallbladder/

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:15 AM

DO NOT USE ANY OTHER VEGETABLE OILS but EVOO. Vegetable oils are really bad for you and you will have it even worse. I have not tried coconut oil back then. By the way, it is worth to try. No, I do not think MUFAs are better - just a tiny bit of EVOO, that's it.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:13 AM

Jamie, I do not really know, but every time I had too much (not little but really too much) SFA, it hurt me like crazy and I had a gall bladder attack. A little bit of olive oil was fine. But this was my personal experience - so I do not what is better. I wish I knew a way to deal with gall bladder infections. My gut feeling says that antibiotics won't help.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:09 AM

Yeah I have read that already. Very informative though, makes me realise to be healthy if I have the surgery I will need a load of supplements (I am generally not big on them either). Thanks for posting it up, specially if anyone else is gallbladder less.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:06 AM

Good articles, thanks for sharing. Do you know why MUFA would be better than SFA for the gallbladder? Or is that something from your personal experience? I appreciate your cautions. Its not something I want to do. I am going to put a legal clause in the surgery contract, assuming i cant do something about it in the meantime, not to take it out if its healthy.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 06:10 AM

I found two: 1. gall stones (I know you don't have them but you can just read some of it) http://www.westonaprice.org/ask-the-doctor/gall-stones 2. http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-up-reviews/the-gall-bladder-survival-guide My advice for now - before you either find another physician or have it taken out reduce your saturated fat intake and have some olive oil (a teaspoon) with every meal.

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on October 05, 2012
at 12:08 AM

I would write to Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser and Nora Gedgaudas and the like to see if they have any other recommendations to stop the infection. Tell them what you've done already, you never know, they might have some ideas. Good luck, whatever course you end up taking.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Yeah, actually, anything you could link me too would be great. I want my gallbladder, so Ill consider the other side, if indeed it could cure my infection (which ATM I am skeptical of)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Oh, yeah, good one. Id already encountered her "how to enjoy bacon without a gallbladder".

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:53 PM

Very helpful, to know that if I have fat intolerance, the supplements may well help. Cheers

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:51 PM

Thank you all for your replies :) This gives me much better picture as to what I might be getting myself into. Thanks!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:50 PM

Obviously, id rather not, but if its infected, and I cant rid myself of the infection, I have to, to save my life (rupture is pretty fatal). I am a little doubtful any nathropathic therapy would remove the infection where paleo eating and antibiotics have failed. I couldnt find the WAPF page on gallbladders. Do you know the title of the article? Id be very interested to read that. Cheers!

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13 Answers

6
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on October 04, 2012
at 03:01 PM

Just do what's best for your overall health. My gallbladder was removed 15 years ago and there was no significant impact on my health. I don't normally take any bile salts/stomach acid supplements and I thrive on high-fat meat. I also handle heavy cream, butter and cheese just fine.

What DOES cause problems is starch--if I eat too many carbs, particularly if I succumb to processed carbs, I suffer acid reflux.

My suggestion would be to find the mix of foods that you personally thrive on, then supplement if/as needed with bile salts or stomach acid.

One tactic that really works for me is to avoid eating solid food after 4 pm. My system needs time to process food and rest before going to bed.

5
980acf31034fb9511e4a6027211866ee

(416)

on October 04, 2012
at 01:53 PM

I had my gallbladder out when I was 11 years old after battling problems for three months (mine also was not caused by stones). In the following years (before paleo), I suffered what my doctor referred to as 'spasms' whenever I ate rich/fatty foods. A spasm for me involved several sharp, intense pains originating in the spot under my ribs where the gallbladder used to be. They would only last a minute or two, but they were unpleasant enough to make me avoid trigger foods. In the past couple of years (I'm 24 now), I've experimented with NOW Foods Super Enzymes as well as Ox Bile. I've had great results with both. With the Super Enzymes, I find that taking an extra tablet or two with an especially fatty meal gives greater digestive support while just one ox bile tablet seems to do the job. Because of this, I prefer the ox bile. Either way though, I pretty much have full tolerance of fatty meals without any painful or digestive side effects as long as I remember to take one of these supplements.

I hope this helps! Forgive any typos...I'm typing all of this on my phone.

Cheers!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:53 PM

Very helpful, to know that if I have fat intolerance, the supplements may well help. Cheers

4
4e248f471963a491dcf7eb75d6ff187e

on October 04, 2012
at 01:09 PM

Stacy of www.paleoparents.com had hers out and has lots to say about how it's affected her. Check out her blog posts.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Oh, yeah, good one. Id already encountered her "how to enjoy bacon without a gallbladder".

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 08:24 PM

That is the one! http://paleoparents.com/featured/how-to-enjoy-bacon-without-a-gallbladder/

3
C8549e3ab0e3d77910e72c87cb5e0918

(435)

on October 04, 2012
at 09:01 PM

I eat 60-65% of calories from fat with no gallbladder with no problem. Eggs, avocado, bacon, coconut oil, etc., all go down fine. Like another poster, I get horrible indigestion with carbs now though.

3
78964c5cc470f86a5897db8e1ce8e6f9

on October 04, 2012
at 04:00 PM

I had my gallbladder out 9 years ago (stones and pancreatitis from them) and there's been no obvious impact on my health. I've tried supplementing with ox bile and don't notice much difference either way. I can eat 50-60% calories from fat and feel fine.

3
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:51 AM

Jamie, don't get your gall bladder out! Seriously, don't! I did it and I regret doing it. My doctor (a former surgeon) told me that that's the only way. I believed him because he was very good. Or at least I thought he was very good at the time. What a lie! If I knew then what I know now, I would nod follow any of his recommendations.

One girl here on Paleohacks recommended some naturopathic remedy. I wrote it down and, unfortunately, lost the name of it. But I am sure there are better ways than surgery to deal with sick gallbladder.

Maybe you can find some cheap naturopath that knows? Your surgery is going to cost much more, plus you do not know what you are getting into - all my problems started with having my gall bladder out (not right away though) so it was hard to make a connection.

There are some integrative doctors as well. Maybe they can help you.

Also, W. Price Foundation has a page on gall bladders. They say that you should up your cholesterol - maybe this has something to do with your cream, not sure. Make sure to read it - it is very informative.

Hope somebody here has an answer for you.

Good luck!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:15 AM

DO NOT USE ANY OTHER VEGETABLE OILS but EVOO. Vegetable oils are really bad for you and you will have it even worse. I have not tried coconut oil back then. By the way, it is worth to try. No, I do not think MUFAs are better - just a tiny bit of EVOO, that's it.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Yeah, actually, anything you could link me too would be great. I want my gallbladder, so Ill consider the other side, if indeed it could cure my infection (which ATM I am skeptical of)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:06 AM

Good articles, thanks for sharing. Do you know why MUFA would be better than SFA for the gallbladder? Or is that something from your personal experience? I appreciate your cautions. Its not something I want to do. I am going to put a legal clause in the surgery contract, assuming i cant do something about it in the meantime, not to take it out if its healthy.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 04, 2012
at 11:50 PM

Obviously, id rather not, but if its infected, and I cant rid myself of the infection, I have to, to save my life (rupture is pretty fatal). I am a little doubtful any nathropathic therapy would remove the infection where paleo eating and antibiotics have failed. I couldnt find the WAPF page on gallbladders. Do you know the title of the article? Id be very interested to read that. Cheers!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 06:10 AM

I found two: 1. gall stones (I know you don't have them but you can just read some of it) http://www.westonaprice.org/ask-the-doctor/gall-stones 2. http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-up-reviews/the-gall-bladder-survival-guide My advice for now - before you either find another physician or have it taken out reduce your saturated fat intake and have some olive oil (a teaspoon) with every meal.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:13 AM

Jamie, I do not really know, but every time I had too much (not little but really too much) SFA, it hurt me like crazy and I had a gall bladder attack. A little bit of olive oil was fine. But this was my personal experience - so I do not what is better. I wish I knew a way to deal with gall bladder infections. My gut feeling says that antibiotics won't help.

1
2af3e03326476218255c6aa9646d2c80

on October 05, 2012
at 02:28 AM

Hi sweety I had my gallbladder out two years ago. Infection plus stones. I have a big issues with breads pasta starch carbs n me don't get along. Other then that I'm fine. I dont suppliment I just started back of fatty foods.slowly smaller portions and.built.up from there.

1
Eb0ca37d18e4bb74fb31b2a6918e1809

(333)

on October 05, 2012
at 01:55 AM

I had my gallbladder taken out earlier this year, back in May. 2 weeks after the surgery I was pretty much back to my regular diet of high fat. I don't have any problems with fat, I eat all types. Most people seem to have the same experience as myself, but there are also people who don't react so well. You just have to hope for the best and hope your body adjusts, good luck!

1
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 05, 2012
at 01:37 AM

You might want to read this.........http://jackkruse.com/cpc-3-do-you-need-a-gallbladder/

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 05, 2012
at 07:09 AM

Yeah I have read that already. Very informative though, makes me realise to be healthy if I have the surgery I will need a load of supplements (I am generally not big on them either). Thanks for posting it up, specially if anyone else is gallbladder less.

1
7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2030)

on October 04, 2012
at 05:40 PM

I don't have any experience with this but I have learned that bile is very rythmic and if you time your meals at the same time each day it can be of benefit. This book may be of some help too. Maybe talking to someone like Pam K. or another WAPF practitioner for an outside opinion? That's a real bummer man obviously try to keep it but if your life is threatened then you gotta do what you gotta do.

0
8d454fc50d6d58643d6f8b0d1e7ea8ea

on October 05, 2012
at 03:04 PM

There is a lot of info on gallbladder issues and supplements here: http://www.gallbladderattack.com/index.shtml - I can't vouch for any of it as I've apparently been able to resolve my issues (stones and mild attacks) with some herbal remedies and diet (animal fats = good, seed oil fats = bad). If you in for some digging and reading, though, it may be helpful. I find the line of recommended supplements pretty interesting.

0
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on October 05, 2012
at 02:16 PM

Been without my gallbladder for over 35 years - never seemed to have an issue even when I has eating SAD. After paleo still no issues with fats.

0
Ca8111fb6e3bac177373a82f5d33910d

(135)

on October 05, 2012
at 02:06 AM

I had mine out when I was 16 (gallstones & pancreatitis). I do not have any problems with fatty meals. I do still end up in pain when I eat certain foods (ripe bananas, hazelnuts, mushrooms, and some crap that is put on some lettuces sold in restaurants), even 20+ years after the gb removal. Green bananas are ok. I know which local restaurants I can have salad at, and which I can't. It is fairly easy to avoid hazelnuts & mushrooms. I get heartburn after eating wheat, and sometimes corn.

If I deliberately choose to eat wheat, or if the pain starts after eating one of the aforementioned foods, I take some of the Now Super Enzymes and that seems to help ease the pain a bit. Oddly enough, I haver gotten the burning sensation with the Super Enzymes (I've never taken more than seven per meal).

I do occasionally get a swelling of my torso in the area of my scar (6" or so long) that also comes with pain. That only happens a couple of times per year, so I deal with it. I have no idea what causes it, but I figure it is some remnant of the surgery (my gut was still extremely distended when they cut me open).

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