0

votes

Spherocytosis and gall bladder removed - in relation to fats

Commented on December 13, 2013
Created December 13, 2013 at 1:38 AM

I have spherocytosis (a blood disorder but it doesn't really affet me) and had my gall bladder removed. That means (so I'm told) fats can't break down (or something like that) and therefore I pass a lot of it out and my shit is watery if I eat a lot of fats/oil. I'm wondering if there's any side effects if I go on a Paleo Diet. I've been eating more fats and restricting the carbos and my shit has been more watery or oily!. Apart from the fact that I need to go to toilet more often and quicker after eating fatty stuff, is there anything I need to consider when doing this diet? Thanks.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:51 PM

Produce doesn't always mean make, there's a secondary meaning that means present or cause. i.e. produce the documents means hand them over.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:49 PM

One more thing, MCTs don't require lipase to digest, so coconut oil is your friend as it's about half MCT and half saturated fats.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:48 PM

I didn't imply bile is produced by the bladder, it's for storage, without it, bile is produced by the liver in small amounts, and it trickles into the stomach as they've diverted the duct 24/7/365. Normally, it's stored in the bladder and ejected when needed on consumption of a fatty meal. Without it, you can't digest a meal as easily, and it causes problems in the intestines if there's no food for it to digest.

F8df5d493f7054575f04b3f53a2544e1

(0)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:14 PM

[quote] b) Your liver still produces some bile[/quote]

The gall bladder doesn't produce bile. All of the bile is produced by the liver.The gall bladder simply stores the bile so it isn't released until needed.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 13, 2013
at 05:19 PM

Bingo! "You should consume more fats throughout the day - a little bit at a time to offset this." Unfortunately, w/o a bile reservoir (gall bladder) bile can storage for use when "needed"... best to match fat input with bile flow. :(

3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on December 13, 2013
at 04:31 PM

On a personal note, having had my gallbladder out years ago, that eating the fats throughout the day like you mentioned, works very well. I don't need enzyme tablets either and have no trouble absorbing fat soluble vitamins. After going paleo, my Dr. was blown away at how high my vit D (and other nutrients and vitamins) were. The body does have amazing compensatory mechanisms. I think you're right about the common bile duct become a de facto gall bladder, which would explain my ability to consume way more fat than I ever used to.

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

6 Answers

0
F8df5d493f7054575f04b3f53a2544e1

on December 13, 2013
at 06:16 PM

The gall bladder doesn't produce bile. All of the bile is produced by the liver.The gall bladder simply stores the bile so it isn't released until needed. Bile will continue to reach your small intestine it just won’t be stored along the way in the gallbladder and the removal of a gallbladder rarely causes problems. In order to break down and digest fats, your body must produce bile, which is done in the liver. Your gallbladder is merely a sac for holding some of the bile that the liver produces. Whether or not you have had your gallbladder removed, your liver is still producing bile in order to digest fats. The gallbladder does facilitate and regulate the flow of bile in your body. When that facilitator is taken away it is quite possible that the flow will be not as efficient, ie. too much at one time, or more commonly, not enough. If you have the less common, but not unusual side effect after gallbladder removal of needing to run to the bathroom immediately after eating, you are probably getting too much bile instead of too little. This is called dumping. If you truly have dumping syndrome you should avoid large carbohydrate loads, so minimize your sugars and starches.

I had mine out 15 years ago and have never had any problems digesting fats since the removal. Occasionally, (maybe once a year) I experienced bile dumping. Mine seemed to occur after fasting and then eating too much at the next meal.

For more Paleo Diet hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/505994/spherocytosis-and-gall-bladder-removed-in-relation.html#ixzz2nNN7cyWO

Follow us: @PaleoHacks on Twitter | PaleoHacks on Facebook

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:51 PM

Produce doesn't always mean make, there's a secondary meaning that means present or cause. i.e. produce the documents means hand them over.

0
3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:01 PM

I sometimes have that "rushing through you" sound, which is a warning sign that I'll have to find a restroom soon. I find that if I intermittent fast too often, I have bathroom issue more often when I finally do eat.

I had started to really get into intermittent fasting, and after a few months, starting having some severe cramps. My "normal" doctor couldn't find anything wrong at all with me, including a cat scan! My "wacko" alternative doctor said that I had bile buildup and needed to eat more fat more frequently. I ate more fat more regularly and it cleared up immediately. I don't know if "bile buildup" is real or not, but the results worked.

And then... my best buddy had the exact same symptoms, and he had his gall bladder out as well. He wasn't eating paleo and was having the traditional low fat breakfast. I told him to add real bacon to his breakfast and skip the sugary yogurt. He felt better in two days and he said he was back to normal in less than a week. Also, his lifelong scaly skin on his legs cleared up for the first time in his life. I now have a paleo convert!

As far as absorbing fat soluble vitamins, your ability is impaired, and following the standard low fat dogma on top of things could cause serious issues. If you are very cognizant of how you eat and making sure you get enough of the right fats, you should be able to minimize any deficiencies. My levels of these vitamins are very good, better than most SAD dieters.

Raydawg is right that you can't absorb these without the bile, but you are still making bile. You're just not storing it like you used to, so you can't create a huge bolus of bile to match a large fat intake. That's why the "grazing on fat" seems to work the best for me, who has an impaired ability to eat like those with a gall bladder. I can skip breakfast once or twice a week, but no more. That's just the constraints I have to work with.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 05:48 PM

@jonathanjason

Gall reflux = bile reflux - same idea as acid reflux, only bile rises up... you might wake up in the middle of the night and throw up a very bitter bright yellow liquid - this is bile - it digests fats, it will do that to your esophagus if this happens, not a good thing - I used to eat a small piece of cheese before sleeping to prevent that. Trouble was, it turned out I'm also allergic to the casein from cow products, so it was also causing reflux, so if you have this issue, maybe take a teaspoon of olive oil or a bit of butter.

Yeah, doctors tell you to just eat a regular low fat diet, and don't tell you anything about digestive enzymes - nice huh? Had mine taken out a long time ago for stones, I wish I could go back in time and bitchslap the doctor with a full grown live tuna - hard.

There are other ways to get rid of stones they can be broken up with ultrasound, or you can do one of those flush things. The problem that causes the stones is going low fat for a long time - this causes the bile that's accumulated to turn into stones. Then, when you do have some fat, the stones get stuck in the bile duct, or have a hard time passing, so you get the pulsing pain on the side and you go to the hospital, and they tell you they have to remove it, and that you don't actually need this critically important organ.

I'm not sure about the sounds, sorry. Could be related, might not be.

There's some correlation to gallbladder issues and celiac disease, so going paleo might be a very good thing for you.

IF is ok, I do it almost daily (I don't the days after weightlifting as I want a meat/eggs breakfast). I do however, use a bulletproof coffee which is made with EVCO (extra virgin coconut oil) and kerrygold butter. This avoids any issues.

It's been several years now and I haven't had a bile/gall reflux at all. I do eat a fairly high fat/low carb diet, so you can get past this.

Without digestive enzymes, I do notice poop comes out wrong. Either as liquid, or as clusters of balls, and some are floaters (undigested fat floats). You always want type 4 on the Bristol Stool Scale. Take a look whenever you go - it tells you quite a bit as to the health of your digestion.

0
5b8a557866d139fd5cb810f0f12e99a5

on December 13, 2013
at 05:16 PM

Thanks guys for your response.

raydawg, you mentioned, "cannot consume critical nutrients such as n3 fats (fish oil), saturated fats, MUFAs, fat soluable vitamins such as A, D, and E."

Wow, I didn't know all that. And I don't know the full implications of that but it sounds to be quite a big deal. Could you elaborate more. Some of those sounds good and if I'm missing out on them, isn't that bad - what can I do?

"you now must consume oxbile or digestive enzymes containing them (or lipase) before every meal, recommended is Now Super Enzyme capsules (not the tabs). You'd take something like 3-5 caps before each meal."

Wow, no doctor told me that. If I don't do the above, what's going to happen?

"gall reflux at night if you skip dinner"

What is gall reflux? I actually wrote on this thread too about regular meals (

http://paleohacks.com/questions/505700/is-having-regular-meals-important.html#answer-506061)

What I get is my stomach growling and liquid sounds if I skip meals - that's why I started the above thread. People said Intermittent fasting is OK and thus skipping regular meals sometimes is OK. However, would the problem of my gall bladder being removed (because I had gallstones in it) mean that I'm different and should take precautions? Do the sounds have anything to do with my gall bladder being removed? (I asked the people in the above thread if the sounds have anything to do with "gastric" which I'm always told will be the result if I don't eat regularly)

Anon9, do you have sounds in your stomach sometimes? Also, what do you think of what raydawg said about not being able to consume all those nutrients, etc.

Thanks guys

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:49 PM

One more thing, MCTs don't require lipase to digest, so coconut oil is your friend as it's about half MCT and half saturated fats.

0
3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on December 13, 2013
at 04:27 PM

I had my gall bladder out a few decades ago, so I know exactly what you're talking about. What I've found is oddly the opposite. As I up my fat content, everything starts to work better. The problem comes when I don't eat fat for a while. When I do, I have the expected issues (the "you've got 5 minutes to find a toilet...go!" syndrome). I have found that I need to make sure I get a little fat in every meal, and I can only do intermittent fasts only once or twice a week. I don't have any fatigue issues, but the sudden shift if fat shakes things up a bit.

I think I slowly transitioned into adding more fat, and there was probably more trial and error than I remember, but here on the finish line, I can tell you that you can find a good med-hi fat diet without those unpleasant consequences. I still have moments, but they are few and far between. And I would say the situation is way better than it was before I was paleo.

Once again, this is what works for me, and my friend who had his gall bladder out.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on December 13, 2013
at 04:12 PM

The problem isn't the paleo diet, but rather that you now lack a gallbladder and cannot consume critical nutrients such as n3 fats (fish oil), saturated fats, MUFAs, fat soluable vitamins such as A, D, and E.

This has several effects:

a) you won't be able to digest fats, and you now must consume oxbile or digestive enzymes containing them (or lipase) before every meal, recommended is Now Super Enzyme capsules (not the tabs). You'd take something like 3-5 caps before each meal.

b) Your liver still produces some bile, it now trickles down into your stomach or small intestine. This can cause several problems including an increased risk for colon cancer, the possiblity of gall reflux at night if you skip dinner, etc. You should consume more fats throughout the day - a little bit at a time to offset this. Supposedly over time the bile duct becomes a rudementary gallbladder, but I'm not sure on this point.

This applies whether you go paleo or not.

F8df5d493f7054575f04b3f53a2544e1

(0)

on December 13, 2013
at 06:14 PM

[quote] b) Your liver still produces some bile[/quote]

The gall bladder doesn't produce bile. All of the bile is produced by the liver.The gall bladder simply stores the bile so it isn't released until needed.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 13, 2013
at 05:19 PM

Bingo! "You should consume more fats throughout the day - a little bit at a time to offset this." Unfortunately, w/o a bile reservoir (gall bladder) bile can storage for use when "needed"... best to match fat input with bile flow. :(

3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on December 13, 2013
at 04:31 PM

On a personal note, having had my gallbladder out years ago, that eating the fats throughout the day like you mentioned, works very well. I don't need enzyme tablets either and have no trouble absorbing fat soluble vitamins. After going paleo, my Dr. was blown away at how high my vit D (and other nutrients and vitamins) were. The body does have amazing compensatory mechanisms. I think you're right about the common bile duct become a de facto gall bladder, which would explain my ability to consume way more fat than I ever used to.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!