14

votes

Low-Carbing, A Hell To Get Out Of?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 26, 2012 at 1:56 PM

I'm amazed how this website has changed. Lustig is taken more and more seriously, low-carbing is very popular, ... but the arrogance is sky-high. Kruse, Richard Nikoley, Kurt Harris, Gary Taubes, ... all think they are smarter than everyone else. Even Melissa couldn't take it anymore and she put up with a lot of crap in the past.

Last winter, on VLC, I made a lot of enemies and lost a lot of friends. Sugar saved my personality, and surprisingly didn't cause 'ups and downs' from insulin.

Using large amounts of progesterone makes me very happy and tends to make me dance. As I'm an autistic guy this is a drastic personality change.

Alcoholics and addicted drug users are usually in denial. LSD has been shown to solve alcoholism. Using acid makes me extremely confident, and drastically alters my 'personality'.

Pregnenolone gives me a craving to travel, play the violin, and hug people.

Eating high-tryptophan foods without lts of calcium, gelatin, sugar and salt makes me angry and hateful.

Taking all this information into account, wouldn't it be possible for a low-carb diet to cause arrogance, aggression, closed-mindedness, ...? Causing a vicious cycle of hate? I miss the old PH, where fruit was still hot!!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 12:25 PM

Well paleo man had chanting, drums, shakers and flutes I would think. If he had an amplifier, or a syntheziser I am sure hed have used it. Look at the crazy vocalisations tribal folks do. If you heard "drums of death" the vodoo funeral ritual CD, youd probably find alot of rock and roll pretty light-hearted.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 12:21 PM

Hot fruit? Sounds nice on a winters day...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 12:18 PM

MDMA makes me like a giddy child. Marijuana makes me like a deeply meditating monk (and a hungry hippo). But id rather make myself these ways, so that I can control it myself. Better to steer the ship than float on the currents helpless. Life makes you passive in so many ways, raining on you doubt, fear, anger, sadness. All you can control primarily is your emotional response.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 12:13 PM

"LSD has been shown to solve alcoholism". Actually ketamine does this much better. LSD and psychedelic drugs are powerful medicines. I agree. But underestimate their power and get burned. You can do mind practices anywhere any time (unlike drugs) - It is easy enough to access ones own innermind, and move change inside yourself, with some practice. Drugs can show you the door, but only you can walk through it. It becomes a crutch not long after it breaks open your sense of self. I think of psychedelic drugs as training wheels for the bicycle handhapped.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2012
at 07:47 AM

Hippocrates -- "Let food be thy medicine & let thy medicine be food"

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on August 28, 2012
at 06:14 AM

I'd say what lucky chap you are that you can alter your state so easily :)

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 27, 2012
at 10:59 AM

Throw in a "partially" as well and I could agree.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 27, 2012
at 10:39 AM

Well, replace "all" with "modern" and you've got a good byline instead of a yuck.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 27, 2012
at 08:01 AM

Looking into nutrition is an excellent way to improve health, insofar as it's not to the exclusion of other factors. That's all I'm sayin'

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

So, that's where I got the idea that GNG was not as efficient at converting protein to glucose as is commonly thought.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:20 AM

Clearly, that is what I was referencing to when I wrote above that - "Humans can get some glucose from protein (according to ketotic though, not as much as we think)."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:19 AM

You write "In sum, then, there is no evidence that we could find that consuming excess protein will increase glucose production from GNG. On the other hand, there is much suggestive evidence that it does not."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:18 AM

@ Ambiomorph- This is the last post I read on your site http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:16 AM

@ Ambimorph- You wrote- "In sum, then, there is no evidence that we could find that consuming excess protein will increase glucose production from GNG. On the other hand, there is much suggestive evidence that it does not." I guess now I see that you have written more parts to this post in the past couple of days, but a week ago when I checked your site that's all there was.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 27, 2012
at 01:47 AM

"Also, if you read ketotic.org, she an array of studies showing that GNG is not very strong." -- I fail to see how you came to this interpretation. The point was that GNG keeps your blood sugar steady. It's very robust to change. Of course GNG and ketosis aren't mutually exclusive. And of course being in ketosis doesn't impair your brain function.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Well, I guess all i can do now is walk away with my tail between my legs having learned something. I don't remember learning about glucose being derived from glycerol, so thanks for the helpful link, Mscott.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:34 PM

+1, really great answer.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:41 PM

Absolutely, but why bother with thing we cant control easily? Given that certain chemicals have tremendous effects on me, I don't see what's wrong with looking into nutrition.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:30 PM

and fatty acids: http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/01/we-really-can-make-glucose-from-fatty.html

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:29 PM

There's evidence that, in addition to protein, low carb peeps can make glucose for their brains from glycerol (the backbone of fats): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7647479

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:22 PM

You are wrong. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:38 PM

Because the oversimplification of bodily processes is nauseating. I don't mean to diminish the value of "paleohacking" or community discussion, but there are tons of variables at play besides diet.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:20 PM

Oh lawd... here comes the sermon...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:53 PM

It could be the case that parts of brain run on ketones, but it cannot be the whole case, because then people who eat 80/10/10 (who likely burn zero ketones?) would literally not be able to perform certain mental tasks. Not saying they aren't crazy, but I don't think it has been shown they're inferior in any way.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:46 PM

Refined carbs are worst - lower GI and all that. Mainly reserve my 25g a day for some berries and as much spinich and brocolli as I can stomach. Might be that OJ works for some - for me it's just a glass full of sugar that'd have me running to the toilet in gastric distress.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:46 PM

I don't think they're mutually exclusive either, but a proper ketogenic tries to limit it as much as possible by making fat the predominant source of calories, not protein or carbs. Also, if you read ketotic.org, she an array of studies showing that GNG is not very strong.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:42 PM

Well now I'd like to hear Shari's thoughts on this, but I thought GNG and ketosis weren't mutually exclusive?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:33 PM

I am saying that consuming some glucose is better than none, enough to keep you out of persistent ketosis all the time. I don't eat a particularly low carb diet by paleohacks standards, but it is certainly lower than avg american. This whole summer I've been cycling my carbs in four day rotations from 75-85g, 25-35g, 25-35g, 35-45g and repeating.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:26 PM

@Dan Have you watched the GAPs video? http://vimeo.com/10507542 Drugs are not as harmless as we think they are.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:17 PM

Probably pick this as the best answer, I need to get outside some more.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:13 PM

And still no one has said what it is specifically that is "just wrong" and "incorrect."

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:11 PM

@Luckie... come to think of it - cavemen did not have guitars!!! Thanks for pointing it out!!! No rock'n roll for you. All you have left is sex, sex and more sex. No drugs for you either.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:52 PM

Shrooms are paleo, right ;) ?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Yeah I was stupid enough to blame it on the carbs :). I've experimented for 5 weeks with ketosis, it really wasn't for me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:49 PM

For someone who follows a ketogenic diet year round, I would have expected you to know that glucose cannot be created from fat consumption (via gluconeogensis) like you say. Maybe I am wrong, but I have never heard such a thing, so some citations to back that statement would be great.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:47 PM

Okay, thanks borofergie :) Do you thinks all carbs can be put in the same category? Anecdotally, many people have had better BG control with orange juice, likely due to magnesium and potassium content.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:46 PM

Thank you, Dan W. I do get tired of the "one pure life for all" moralizing that often happens around here. No sex, no drugs, next thing there will be no rock 'n roll cause cavemen didn't have guitars.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:46 PM

carbs from fruit. I have never seen an olympian eating ketogenic either, nor have I heard of any geniuses eating ketogenic. Adam Smith ate a lot of potatoes and Einstein was mostly a vegetarian who loved ice cream. I am just saying that there is overwhelming evidence that humans maximize potential when their insulin sensitivity is intact and they choose to consume some glucose and not operate on ketones year-round.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:44 PM

(usually in conjunction with steroids to retain lean muscle), but they are wise enough to only stay ketogenic for a short time frame, otherwise they lose significant muscle tissue, have no energy to train, and risk health consequences. An example of a bodybuilder who (likely uses/used steroids, as he was in the IFBB) is Rene Endara, author of the HUman Diet. HE followed keto for two of his competitions and gained 40lbs in a month afterwards, leading him to believe that restricting carbs so enormously is bad for the body and proper insulin function. So, he created a paleo diet with adequate

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:40 PM

The vast majority of people do better lower cab that SAD, but that does not mean ketogenic. Ketogenic diets are a protection mechanism, last resort from starvation when you've burned all the glucose you can find from exogenous carb consumption, endogenous glycogen stores, exogenous protein consumption, and endogenous muscle tissue. Ever see someone who, in the absence of steroids, is lean and muscular and stays ketogenic year round? Never in my life have I seen it. Not once. Yeah, bodybuilders follow keto diets for a very short time leading up to a competition...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:36 PM

I am saying that consuming some glucose is better than none, enough to keep you out of persistent ketosis all the time. I don't eat a particularly low carb diet by paleohacks standards, but it is certainly lower than avg american. This whole summer I've been cycling my carbs in four day rotations from 75-85g, 25-35g, 25-35g, 35-45g and repeating. I am saying a proper ketogenic diet (one where you do not eat enough protein to engage in gluconeogensis so that you're burning ketones 24/7) is not, IMHO, a wise choice for your brain or your body.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:32 PM

@ borogergie- Now that does not make sense. the whole point of ketosis is NOT to eat enough protein to engage in gluconeogenesis, or else you'll kick yourself out of ketosis. I know people who say that 50 grams of protein in a sitting will kick them out of it. Also, I was not aware that the body could make glucose from dietary fat. Could you provide some literature to back that statement up?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Maybe drugs lead YOU to a dead end. YMMV with diet, *as well* as drugs. Plus, you can't lump all "drugs" into one category. Cocaine is for sure a dead end, but psychedelics, used responsibly and wisely, can actually free up people's own personal dead ends.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:29 PM

I'm arrogant, aggressive, and a food snob no matter how many carbs I eat. Also, I don't really get into the Paleo-nostalgia of "I miss people advocating eating sticks of butter" or "I miss everyone saying fruit is terrible for you." It seems like a lot of Paleo/Primal people take it from a healthful lifestyle concept to a surrogate addiction - like alcoholics who switch from booze to AA. Can't eat your Twinkie? Get your fix with your favorite online Paleo resource! Except not all of us are looking to fill the holes in our hearts with ant-CW dogma recital.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:29 PM

A proper ketogenic diet is one in which your brain uses ketones. It obviously includes protein as well as fat. Ketosis is a mechanism to protect you during starvation, Gluconeogenesis from protein or from fat is a critical part of that.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:15 PM

I am glad you stopped! Continue with probiotics and find a brand that works for you. I have tried several before I found a good one. Also, you might want to double the dose - it is a good thing. Maybe she will be back!

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:12 PM

@ Korion- Humans can get some glucose from protein (according to ketotic though, not as much as we think). A proper ketogenic diet is not a protein diet, it is a fat diet, where one gets their energy from ketones, not glucose from protein through gluconeogenesis.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:06 PM

You can get glucose out of protein, I don't see what the problem is...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:04 PM

Oh no I've stopped the drugs a while ago, it's not addictive at all. Just recycling my old experiments. And believe me, I didn't find myself confident, but multiple people around me confirmed I looked them straight in the eyes when talking (I never do that), didn't blink, and 'had my own opinion'. Cod liver oil didn't help, probiotics did help a tiny bit, but many other things like retinol and calcium work well ! I don't think Melissa is paleo either, but it's still a shame she has left :). Thanks VB!

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:03 PM

Not true, only red blood cells, and brain cells are too large require glucose - not our entire brains. The rest can run just fine on ketones. Some people do great on high carbs, others don't. Insulin resistance and dogma are not related.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:58 PM

@ Korion- what are you talking about? If the adult brain is a glucose burning machine, and you are following a ketogenic diet, then you are in fact depriving it of fuel because you're burning ketones and not glucose.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:49 PM

What's wrong is that there's no evidence a ketogenic or low-carb diet deprives your brain of its fuel. No doubt a lot of us have this experience, but we can't generalize.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:34 PM

At least two people agree with you, but can you tell me what is "just wron" and "not correct"?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

@ SB- what is just wrong?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

I would not be surprised at all if were the access to more glucose (from cooked tubers originally) that allowed our brains to develop to what they are today.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:22 PM

foreveryoung that's just wrong. What you are stating as fact is not correct.

892d177f50b16f118152219229870e4e

(776)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Arrogance,aggressiveness,and bring closed-minded seems to be rampant in the Paleo community regardless of the level of carbohydrate intake.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:38 PM

JayJay I don't mind your down votes.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:36 PM

@ korion- I am saying that our adult brains burn primarily glucose, so if you're eating a ketogenic diet for extended periods (thereby depriving the adult brain of its fuel), then one would stand to reason that it is not operating optimally.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:19 PM

I'm sorry I wanted to put the focus on tryptophan serotonin but I said low-carb, because low-carbing is usually a tryptophan fest. I wasn't talking about mental clarity, but about attitude. Ambimorph seems to be doing very well on ketones, given her extensive, scientific answers on here.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:15 PM

Heh you're not alone :) I don't understand *"If you're not consuming glucose (by either not eating carbs directly or are eating a very high fat, VLC diet) and are instead burning ketones, your thinking will be impaired."* though.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:13 PM

oops Jay it's still a question, not a statement... Was LC ever the default? Marcy I think it's okay but I benefit much more from fructose instead of starch. Undercooked starch kills me :D

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:12 PM

Oh, that was me. I posted my comment as an answer instead.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Anonymous down voting. To be expected.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:58 PM

I miss the old..old PH were LC was the default THEN you tinkered with crap. And half the guys in your "arrogance" roster are not LC anymore so whats your point? Why is it when anyone finds carb Jesus they feel the need to piss all over any other method?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Maybe you should rethink your ketosis experiment to conquer-skinny fat. Aside from obfuscating one's capacity to reason, inducing insulin resistance in a species without up regulated gluconeogenic pathways (like felines), will never get lean. Want to get lean? Lift weights, eat more protein, and eat enough carbs to support your activity levels (i.e. don't overeat).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:35 PM

Maybe you should rethink your ketosis experiment to conquer-skinny fat. Aside from obfuscating one's capacity to reason, inducing insulin resistance in a species without up regulated gluconeogenic pathways (like felines), will never get lean. Want to get lean? Lift weights, eat more protein, and eat enough carbs to support your activity levels (i.e. don't overeat).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:29 PM

B) That was not a joke at all. It was serious.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:29 PM

A) You are incorrect. Where do I imply that eating a high fat, VLC diet is different from burning ketones? Eating a high fat, VLC diet is what one eats in order to burn ketones. You can't burn exclusively ketones eating a very high protein diet, nor can you burn exclusively ketones eating a moderate carb, mixed diet. You must have misread.

A97b68379a576dfa764a4828304d2efb

(4181)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Korion, I know you are a Peat man through and through but what is your take on the Perfect Health Diet?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:26 PM

A lot of people here knows alot more about biology than i do - but what you say doesn't seem to make sense. You imply that the metabolization of ketones and the consumption of a VLC high-fat diet are two different things. They are not. Regarding the logical inconsistencies part that doesn't even seem to be a particularily good joke. Why not keep the topic serious?

Medium avatar

(3024)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:23 PM

+ 1 for soporifcat for most excellent use of CAPS! :)

2c7026111493687e2d619c9e20e47915

(693)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Why do you say yuck?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:33 PM

I don't think so, our search will never end so I think it will always be fun :)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:17 PM

*opposing sorry

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:16 PM

Does that to me too in too high doses, likely by increasing testosterone.

Cd717290eb43a6e17061f9920deed977

(1267)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:12 PM

My ex-husband was VLC for awhile, and he would change from being an asshole to being an ASSHOLE while he was LC. The funny thing about it was that he couldn't recognize any change in his behaviors. He thought he was just the same, and that for some reason the people around him were suddenly oversensitive or difficult (as they were reacting to his attitudes).

Cd717290eb43a6e17061f9920deed977

(1267)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:09 PM

No doubt you are going to take a lot of flack for this question, but it is a valid question to ask. It's clear that some foods induce personality changes, or at least encourage or emphasize one aspect of one's personality over another.

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13 Answers

best answer

14
A97b68379a576dfa764a4828304d2efb

(4181)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:59 PM

You know, I direct this to myself as much as at anyone else. I think that taking a big break from analyzing our diets to death over the internet will yield more positive results than endless tinkering with macronutrient ratios.

It is really hard to stop obsessively checking these boards since the promises are so tantalizing: regain youth! look amazing! cure everything! I always feel like I am one supplement or magical vegetable away from achieving amazing results. I want to pay more attention to what and who surrounds my body, not what I am putting in my body.

I suggest taking a big break from online-paleo. Keep whatever dietary choices going that are working for you, but maybe all of us should rejoin the land of the living out there. I feel positively euphoric when I spend a day outside, playing or working. I feel pretty rotten when I "lose" a night researching the exact amount of choline I should be eating and what I should be pairing it with to - ARGRGHRGH! On top of that, I find myself sucked into petty internet battles and it actually impacts my mood... pathetic!

Have a good day. I am going outside to play until I get called in for dinner. Then I will come back in and eat an indiscriminate amount of carbohydrates. But so help me God, I will not Paleohack!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:17 PM

Probably pick this as the best answer, I need to get outside some more.

9
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:11 PM

Three people/blogs you should check on then get back to me on how impaire, dogmatic blah blah blah these people are....... http://eatingacademy.com/ http://www.ketotic.org/ http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

I dont read Harris OR Nikoley. If your an arrogant prick then you add carbs back in and you remain the same.... I think they have proven it WAS NO low carb that did it :P

Most people report better mental clarity on low carb. And judging from the blogs I posted it seems quite likely.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:19 PM

I'm sorry I wanted to put the focus on tryptophan serotonin but I said low-carb, because low-carbing is usually a tryptophan fest. I wasn't talking about mental clarity, but about attitude. Ambimorph seems to be doing very well on ketones, given her extensive, scientific answers on here.

6
3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:27 PM

If I understand your question right, you're asking why we have a tendency to get all arrogant about our diets, and that our particular version is the only way to go. Is that correct?

I think that most of us had an "Ah-ha" moment when we realized that food has a profound effect on our lives, and that we are meant to eat a certain way. Suddenly, we left Plato's cave and can see the truth and want to tell everyone else. The only problem is that our view of the real world can be slightly different than others and we splinter off. That's a very human thing to do. Look at the different varieties of: vegetarians, vegans, christians, weightlifters, politicians, etc. We find out what works for us and can't understand why no one agrees with us exactly.

I have found that many of us are rules based. We need to follow rules. "If I do XYZ, then I'll be right." Some of us hate rules and try a mulititude of things. The important lesson I learned in life is, "you have to learn the rules to break the rules." All of us here want to know how our bodies work, and if we're mostly right, we're way healthier than most people.

We need to learn to smile and say, "I know what works for me. I hope what your doing works for you." Who knows, we might learn something new. Even from vegans!

Medium avatar

(2338)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:34 PM

+1, really great answer.

4
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:21 PM

Wow, this is gonna be quite the flame war thread. Instead of doing that, let's clearly state that some people do better on carbs than others. I personally don't - going VLC allows me mental clarity, and fat control. Others do better on carbs.

In the end, high carb intake means more ROS, more AGEs and possibly a shorter life. Sorry, but them's the facts. If you happen to do better on carbs, more power to you.

I do some carbs (sweet potatoes, rice), after large workouts, such as today's as a refeed, but that's mostly it, except maybe for a cup of blueberries or such 2x-3x a week. I do have other fruit occasionally, I love figs, not too much sugar in them, 2-3 figs aren't a problem, or a couple of bananas (certainly not 30), or a couple of black plums as a PWO refuel. :)

It's also very true that doing tons of fructose is very dangerous - if you're getting them from fruit and nothing else, you're fine, but for the SAD eat drinking HFCS soda by the liter, you're in a world of pain - so Lustig is right in this.

It's very true that if you're not fat adapted, you'll suffer miserably on VLC until you are. It's very true that if you normally eat carbs and allow your blood sugar to go low, you will be cranky and a pain to others.

It's also very true that if you're fat adapted, you'll get this calmness and mental clarity either fasted, or after eating good fats, but if you do this for too long, you'll feel a bit of anxiety and squirt cortisol to make glucose. So either eat extra protein to make carbs, or eat enough carbs to avoid this issue. I have no mood swings, I have no exhaustion, nor irritability as I did when I was on SAD.

I probably could go higher carb, but if I did, I'd put on a few lbs of fat (and water weight), and I'd be at the mercy of hunger - which would bring in irritability. That's right, being fat adapted means you don't feel hunger for a long time.

I suspect you never allowed yourself to go very far with ketosis, so you didn't get fat adapted. Perhaps some mitochondrial support such as PQQ would have helped, but I'm not you so I don't know - all I can do is describe my other side of the coin and its benefits to me.

If it doesn't help you, that's fine, I don't mind, but let's not open pandora's box and start a flame war between the high carbers and low carbers - there's enough drama in the paleosphere already.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Yeah I was stupid enough to blame it on the carbs :). I've experimented for 5 weeks with ketosis, it really wasn't for me.

3
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:32 PM

As a T2D I don't have a choice, low-carb is the only way I can control my Blood Glucose (without meds). The lower-carb I go, the better my control. To eat carbohydrates would be to accept poor BG control.

I've never felt healthier, happier, fitter or more lucid than I feel on <25g of carb a day.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:47 PM

Okay, thanks borofergie :) Do you thinks all carbs can be put in the same category? Anecdotally, many people have had better BG control with orange juice, likely due to magnesium and potassium content.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:46 PM

Refined carbs are worst - lower GI and all that. Mainly reserve my 25g a day for some berries and as much spinich and brocolli as I can stomach. Might be that OJ works for some - for me it's just a glass full of sugar that'd have me running to the toilet in gastric distress.

3
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:53 PM

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with high carb, fruit, low carb or medium carb, GAPS, FODMAPs, Ray Peat... as long as it works for YOU.

Some people here are trying to lose weight, so eliminating fruit could help them. You don't need to lose weight so you can eat as much fruit as you want to.

Melissa is not Paleo, just so you know. She is more like a Perfect Health Diet. Maybe that's what you are too?

Right now I am doing low carb, not because I want to, but I feel it helps me to alleviate my digestive issues. I am happy with the results but.. yeah, I feel I am a bit more aggressive than usual.

I have also noticed that I wake up every morning around 4:00 AM and cannot sleep for a while. But maybe it is from something else? Not sure.

One thing I want you to know - drugs lead you to a DEAD END. Please stop. You are too young and too cute to continue. Think about your future kids, their genetics will be affected by what you take now. You don't need to alter your personality - you already have a nice one. Also, drugs change the chemistry of your brain in a way that you BELIEVE you are confident when in reality you are not. It is not worth it.

I know you don't want to hear it. And I know it is hard to quit. But I really really hope you will find the way to do it. If I were your mom, I would find one million ways to make you quit. But I am not your mom.

P.S. By the way, have you tried tons and tons of real life probiotics from refrigerated section? Also, have you tried fermented cod liver oil with butter oil? You might want to try it to see if it helps you with autism. I felt the difference right away.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:52 PM

Shrooms are paleo, right ;) ?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Maybe drugs lead YOU to a dead end. YMMV with diet, *as well* as drugs. Plus, you can't lump all "drugs" into one category. Cocaine is for sure a dead end, but psychedelics, used responsibly and wisely, can actually free up people's own personal dead ends.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 12:25 PM

Well paleo man had chanting, drums, shakers and flutes I would think. If he had an amplifier, or a syntheziser I am sure hed have used it. Look at the crazy vocalisations tribal folks do. If you heard "drums of death" the vodoo funeral ritual CD, youd probably find alot of rock and roll pretty light-hearted.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:15 PM

I am glad you stopped! Continue with probiotics and find a brand that works for you. I have tried several before I found a good one. Also, you might want to double the dose - it is a good thing. Maybe she will be back!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:26 PM

@Dan Have you watched the GAPs video? http://vimeo.com/10507542 Drugs are not as harmless as we think they are.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:11 PM

@Luckie... come to think of it - cavemen did not have guitars!!! Thanks for pointing it out!!! No rock'n roll for you. All you have left is sex, sex and more sex. No drugs for you either.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:04 PM

Oh no I've stopped the drugs a while ago, it's not addictive at all. Just recycling my old experiments. And believe me, I didn't find myself confident, but multiple people around me confirmed I looked them straight in the eyes when talking (I never do that), didn't blink, and 'had my own opinion'. Cod liver oil didn't help, probiotics did help a tiny bit, but many other things like retinol and calcium work well ! I don't think Melissa is paleo either, but it's still a shame she has left :). Thanks VB!

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:20 PM

Oh lawd... here comes the sermon...

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:46 PM

Thank you, Dan W. I do get tired of the "one pure life for all" moralizing that often happens around here. No sex, no drugs, next thing there will be no rock 'n roll cause cavemen didn't have guitars.

3
9e3bf43de29f66e5bb7be9c7d176b5e1

on August 26, 2012
at 04:55 PM

I think you have to look at EVERYTHING that is going on in someone's life to know the effect a single change will make. Low carb, like IF, can potentially be a stressor in one's life. This could result in any number of different effects on one's mood and/or temperament depending on the individual and whatever stresses they otherwise have in their life. Simply put, some people can handle it, maybe some can't. I felt it had a mood leveling effect on me. Pretty much kept me calmer and cooler. However, as I started increasing my workout intensity, I realized it probably wasn't optimal for recovery and performance.

3
Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:06 PM

Imagine a world in which all sickness and psychological abnormality could be explained by diet...

Yuck.

2c7026111493687e2d619c9e20e47915

(693)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Why do you say yuck?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:33 PM

I don't think so, our search will never end so I think it will always be fun :)

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:38 PM

Because the oversimplification of bodily processes is nauseating. I don't mean to diminish the value of "paleohacking" or community discussion, but there are tons of variables at play besides diet.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 27, 2012
at 10:39 AM

Well, replace "all" with "modern" and you've got a good byline instead of a yuck.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:41 PM

Absolutely, but why bother with thing we cant control easily? Given that certain chemicals have tremendous effects on me, I don't see what's wrong with looking into nutrition.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 27, 2012
at 10:59 AM

Throw in a "partially" as well and I could agree.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2012
at 07:47 AM

Hippocrates -- "Let food be thy medicine & let thy medicine be food"

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on August 27, 2012
at 08:01 AM

Looking into nutrition is an excellent way to improve health, insofar as it's not to the exclusion of other factors. That's all I'm sayin'

2
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 28, 2012
at 07:50 AM

What I find is that people are emotionally overcharging the whole issue of carbs.

Eat them. Dont eat them. I dont care! ....Its your body, your choice.

Theres so many stupid debates on PH, with people saying "You must eat carbs, low carb is bad for you" "no carbs are bad" etc etc. YAWN!

Do whatever you choose to do, take in what ideas you want to take in, and stop validating your choices and rationalising them by trying to convert others!

Its pitiful.

The last thing you should do is trust some randoms advice on how to maintain your personal wellbeing. You should instead weigh your own personal choices based on information. If that information was represented as opinion, theory and personal experience, thats no problem. But alot of the time its not represented that way. Neither by the so called experts, or those on paleo hacks.

You just need to listen to the debates and reasoning behind all of these experts, to realise that much of their reasoning is just that, nothing evidenced, nothing certain, just a jumble of concepts loosely supported by a few studies or some logic.

Its like people warring over the existance of the higgs boson before CERN. It becomes like a endless pointless religous debate.

Just get over yourselves people. Paleo is VLC, LC and moderate carb. Take your pick based on your goals and what works for you.

.....

And if your a peatatarian, great, good for you. However, is that really paleo or primal? (Not that I care) . But, IDK, from what I have heard, doesnt really sound like it. Maybe in part.

2
E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on August 28, 2012
at 06:18 AM

I just ate a spaghetti carbonara. With bread. In the sun. Followed by a cafe au lait. With a cigarette. Awesome.

It's a once in a blue moon occasion.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2012
at 07:54 AM

Some people do better on carbs than others. The important thing is to know if you are one of them.

1
Ba09704971e33481f5716c4790648966

(1794)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:58 PM

Progesterone makes me cry. :(

I like fruit.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:17 PM

*opposing sorry

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:16 PM

Does that to me too in too high doses, likely by increasing testosterone.

-2
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 26, 2012
at 03:13 PM

Our adult brains run on glucose. If you're not consuming glucose (by either not eating carbs directly or are eating a very high fat, VLC diet) and are instead burning ketones, your thinking will be impaired. If you're insulin resistant, your thinking will be impaired because you're (brain) cells are not able to uptake the glucose from your bloodstream. This impairment of thought is evident in the logical inconsistencies, dogma, and denialism that emanates from the mouths and fingertips of most VLC, high fat ketone burners. I can think of 1 or 2 exceptions, these people are not insulin resistance from former bingeing and inactivity, and are not from their VLC diet because they exercise and choose to consume some glucose.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:42 PM

Well now I'd like to hear Shari's thoughts on this, but I thought GNG and ketosis weren't mutually exclusive?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:15 PM

Heh you're not alone :) I don't understand *"If you're not consuming glucose (by either not eating carbs directly or are eating a very high fat, VLC diet) and are instead burning ketones, your thinking will be impaired."* though.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:29 PM

A) You are incorrect. Where do I imply that eating a high fat, VLC diet is different from burning ketones? Eating a high fat, VLC diet is what one eats in order to burn ketones. You can't burn exclusively ketones eating a very high protein diet, nor can you burn exclusively ketones eating a moderate carb, mixed diet. You must have misread.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:38 PM

JayJay I don't mind your down votes.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

@ SB- what is just wrong?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:26 PM

A lot of people here knows alot more about biology than i do - but what you say doesn't seem to make sense. You imply that the metabolization of ketones and the consumption of a VLC high-fat diet are two different things. They are not. Regarding the logical inconsistencies part that doesn't even seem to be a particularily good joke. Why not keep the topic serious?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Anonymous down voting. To be expected.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:22 PM

foreveryoung that's just wrong. What you are stating as fact is not correct.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:12 PM

@ Korion- Humans can get some glucose from protein (according to ketotic though, not as much as we think). A proper ketogenic diet is not a protein diet, it is a fat diet, where one gets their energy from ketones, not glucose from protein through gluconeogenesis.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

So, that's where I got the idea that GNG was not as efficient at converting protein to glucose as is commonly thought.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Maybe you should rethink your ketosis experiment to conquer-skinny fat. Aside from obfuscating one's capacity to reason, inducing insulin resistance in a species without up regulated gluconeogenic pathways (like felines), will never get lean. Want to get lean? Lift weights, eat more protein, and eat enough carbs to support your activity levels (i.e. don't overeat).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:58 PM

@ Korion- what are you talking about? If the adult brain is a glucose burning machine, and you are following a ketogenic diet, then you are in fact depriving it of fuel because you're burning ketones and not glucose.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:46 PM

carbs from fruit. I have never seen an olympian eating ketogenic either, nor have I heard of any geniuses eating ketogenic. Adam Smith ate a lot of potatoes and Einstein was mostly a vegetarian who loved ice cream. I am just saying that there is overwhelming evidence that humans maximize potential when their insulin sensitivity is intact and they choose to consume some glucose and not operate on ketones year-round.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Well, I guess all i can do now is walk away with my tail between my legs having learned something. I don't remember learning about glucose being derived from glycerol, so thanks for the helpful link, Mscott.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 27, 2012
at 01:47 AM

"Also, if you read ketotic.org, she an array of studies showing that GNG is not very strong." -- I fail to see how you came to this interpretation. The point was that GNG keeps your blood sugar steady. It's very robust to change. Of course GNG and ketosis aren't mutually exclusive. And of course being in ketosis doesn't impair your brain function.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

I would not be surprised at all if were the access to more glucose (from cooked tubers originally) that allowed our brains to develop to what they are today.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:03 PM

Not true, only red blood cells, and brain cells are too large require glucose - not our entire brains. The rest can run just fine on ketones. Some people do great on high carbs, others don't. Insulin resistance and dogma are not related.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:22 PM

You are wrong. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:36 PM

@ korion- I am saying that our adult brains burn primarily glucose, so if you're eating a ketogenic diet for extended periods (thereby depriving the adult brain of its fuel), then one would stand to reason that it is not operating optimally.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:44 PM

(usually in conjunction with steroids to retain lean muscle), but they are wise enough to only stay ketogenic for a short time frame, otherwise they lose significant muscle tissue, have no energy to train, and risk health consequences. An example of a bodybuilder who (likely uses/used steroids, as he was in the IFBB) is Rene Endara, author of the HUman Diet. HE followed keto for two of his competitions and gained 40lbs in a month afterwards, leading him to believe that restricting carbs so enormously is bad for the body and proper insulin function. So, he created a paleo diet with adequate

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:29 PM

There's evidence that, in addition to protein, low carb peeps can make glucose for their brains from glycerol (the backbone of fats): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7647479

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:32 PM

@ borogergie- Now that does not make sense. the whole point of ketosis is NOT to eat enough protein to engage in gluconeogenesis, or else you'll kick yourself out of ketosis. I know people who say that 50 grams of protein in a sitting will kick them out of it. Also, I was not aware that the body could make glucose from dietary fat. Could you provide some literature to back that statement up?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:35 PM

Maybe you should rethink your ketosis experiment to conquer-skinny fat. Aside from obfuscating one's capacity to reason, inducing insulin resistance in a species without up regulated gluconeogenic pathways (like felines), will never get lean. Want to get lean? Lift weights, eat more protein, and eat enough carbs to support your activity levels (i.e. don't overeat).

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 26, 2012
at 04:12 PM

Oh, that was me. I posted my comment as an answer instead.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:29 PM

A proper ketogenic diet is one in which your brain uses ketones. It obviously includes protein as well as fat. Ketosis is a mechanism to protect you during starvation, Gluconeogenesis from protein or from fat is a critical part of that.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:16 AM

@ Ambimorph- You wrote- "In sum, then, there is no evidence that we could find that consuming excess protein will increase glucose production from GNG. On the other hand, there is much suggestive evidence that it does not." I guess now I see that you have written more parts to this post in the past couple of days, but a week ago when I checked your site that's all there was.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:34 PM

At least two people agree with you, but can you tell me what is "just wron" and "not correct"?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:36 PM

I am saying that consuming some glucose is better than none, enough to keep you out of persistent ketosis all the time. I don't eat a particularly low carb diet by paleohacks standards, but it is certainly lower than avg american. This whole summer I've been cycling my carbs in four day rotations from 75-85g, 25-35g, 25-35g, 35-45g and repeating. I am saying a proper ketogenic diet (one where you do not eat enough protein to engage in gluconeogensis so that you're burning ketones 24/7) is not, IMHO, a wise choice for your brain or your body.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:18 AM

@ Ambiomorph- This is the last post I read on your site http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:29 PM

B) That was not a joke at all. It was serious.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:40 PM

The vast majority of people do better lower cab that SAD, but that does not mean ketogenic. Ketogenic diets are a protection mechanism, last resort from starvation when you've burned all the glucose you can find from exogenous carb consumption, endogenous glycogen stores, exogenous protein consumption, and endogenous muscle tissue. Ever see someone who, in the absence of steroids, is lean and muscular and stays ketogenic year round? Never in my life have I seen it. Not once. Yeah, bodybuilders follow keto diets for a very short time leading up to a competition...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:46 PM

I don't think they're mutually exclusive either, but a proper ketogenic tries to limit it as much as possible by making fat the predominant source of calories, not protein or carbs. Also, if you read ketotic.org, she an array of studies showing that GNG is not very strong.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:49 PM

What's wrong is that there's no evidence a ketogenic or low-carb diet deprives your brain of its fuel. No doubt a lot of us have this experience, but we can't generalize.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:33 PM

I am saying that consuming some glucose is better than none, enough to keep you out of persistent ketosis all the time. I don't eat a particularly low carb diet by paleohacks standards, but it is certainly lower than avg american. This whole summer I've been cycling my carbs in four day rotations from 75-85g, 25-35g, 25-35g, 35-45g and repeating.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:30 PM

and fatty acids: http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/01/we-really-can-make-glucose-from-fatty.html

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:13 PM

And still no one has said what it is specifically that is "just wrong" and "incorrect."

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:06 PM

You can get glucose out of protein, I don't see what the problem is...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:49 PM

For someone who follows a ketogenic diet year round, I would have expected you to know that glucose cannot be created from fat consumption (via gluconeogensis) like you say. Maybe I am wrong, but I have never heard such a thing, so some citations to back that statement would be great.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:53 PM

It could be the case that parts of brain run on ketones, but it cannot be the whole case, because then people who eat 80/10/10 (who likely burn zero ketones?) would literally not be able to perform certain mental tasks. Not saying they aren't crazy, but I don't think it has been shown they're inferior in any way.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:20 AM

Clearly, that is what I was referencing to when I wrote above that - "Humans can get some glucose from protein (according to ketotic though, not as much as we think)."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:19 AM

You write "In sum, then, there is no evidence that we could find that consuming excess protein will increase glucose production from GNG. On the other hand, there is much suggestive evidence that it does not."

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