3

votes

What are everyone's thoughts on Frugavores(fruit-vegan)?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 10, 2011 at 7:12 PM

So, just wondering what people think about the 30 Bananas a Day stuff, or the ex-paleo Grok who've all gone straight fruit-only diets. It's actually quite interesting. I have lots of issues with it, but there are also tons of benefits. Mainly, I'd be concerned with how boring it might get, and I'd also be thinking about the fact that just about everything I'd be eating would have had to travel many hundreds of miles.

I sort of looked, didn't see this discussed yet, but I might suck at searching..

3cdc762b2ae30b4ca3529f011ccac174

(186)

on July 15, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Paul: http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html - Chimps are brutal hunters who will chase down colobus monkeys and tear them apart limb from limb while still alive. Chimps would eat more meat, but without weapons other than rocks, their hunting abilities are limited, esp. as the colobus are very fast. Goodall's dream world of cute li'l veggies chimps has been dramatically disproved.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Our bodies do not resemble other frugavores or herbivores. If so, humans would taste a lot better grilled.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:49 PM

As a strong proponent of eating meat, I understand that sometimes anomalies exist, and there are people that eat a ton of trans fats(which everyone agrees are bad) and doesn't get sick from it, and others that eat a seemingly healthy diet and do have issues. Just because it works for some also doesn't make it ideal for most, or even for them. But I don't think there is a one size fits all. it sure wouldn't fit me.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:34 PM

low fat is bad for both male and female hormones.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on July 14, 2012
at 04:58 PM

There is a honeymoon period and then your body/mental status declines.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on July 14, 2012
at 04:57 PM

Coming from experience ( part of the 30 Bananas a Day crowd for close to a year) it actually almost killed me. Thank god I found paleo!

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on April 07, 2011
at 03:52 PM

LOL @ using coconut as a fruit example. Might be totally correct but still.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on April 07, 2011
at 03:18 PM

I understand that coconut is a fruit, and it is the basic staple of kitavan diet.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on April 07, 2011
at 12:36 PM

starches yes, what fruit did they consume in any large quantity?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on April 07, 2011
at 12:35 PM

they didnt get the connection that plants are correlated with atherosclerosis and meat is safe?

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:22 PM

Hi Jack - yeah their welcome page is pretty shocking. What I like about the paleo 'model' is that it is evolving. For example carbohydrate is coming back into the model and there is a scientifically led flexibility on things like dairy. By comparison, 30BAD's a priori stance is ludicrous.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 11, 2011
at 03:46 PM

when i saw 30BAD, i could not believe some of the thigns they wrote on their welcome page. jaw droppingly stupid. "militant in attitude"... "philosophically inflexible". it's impossible to describe their attitude with more appropriate verbiage than you have done here Asclepius. http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/response-to-b-of-30-bananas-day-about.html

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 11, 2011
at 08:32 AM

Karen - yeah, some salad and fruit (which would both be usually be eaten raw), is part of the mix.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on March 11, 2011
at 07:54 AM

let's not forget the insects (termite fishing with sticks): protein, low fat, but protein none the less. I somewhere read that they like to start the day looking for insects first, and only then eating plants and fruits. Forgot where I read it though...

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 07:09 AM

True. Maybe I do because they are easy targets. Bigger fish to fry, perhaos? Like what is optimal paleo, perhaps. That's a good one.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 11, 2011
at 06:19 AM

And it looks like it would get you 4 oz of monkey a day: 4,000 lbs divided by 365 days = 10.96 lbs per day, divided by 45 members = .24 lbs. But I guess 4 oz of monkey doesn't give you 4 oz of meat. Though if youngsters are included in the chimp count, then you've probably got some of the big males eating 8 oz of meat on some days, and that's significant ...

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 11, 2011
at 06:09 AM

RG73, do you have a reference for the figure of a ton a year that gets you the 2.5 oz a day? I read a fair amount of primatology at one point, but it was a while ago and it was definitely Goodall and other big-namers (like de Waal) and I think they all claimed that the meat intake was only around 3-4% of the diet or something like that. I'm especially surprised since Gombe is where Goodall was for her research, and for several decades. (Of course I also wouldn't be surprised if a pre-existing bias led her to mistakes in observation or analysis.)

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:35 AM

And therefore bad for men! Man's well-being is proportional to the sexual voracity of his lady. Unless he's a vegan and limp dick.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:33 AM

And bad for men!

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:33 AM

Okinawans do very well eating lots of fatty pork. And sweet potatoes (like the Kitavans).

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:30 AM

Chimps in the Gombe National Park hunt a lot. One 45 member tribe was estimated to kill about a ton of colobus monkey per year. I think that works out to about 2.5 oz of monkey meat per day, per chimp, for a primate that runs between 80 and 120 lbs. The males also trade the meat for sex. So there is an evolutionary advantage to hunting. The chimps don't eat much meat is probably a Goodall myth. Sort of like the Bonobo's are peaceful, nymphomaniacs myth. Both chimp species and humans all like to fight, f**k, and kill other mammals.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 11, 2011
at 01:00 AM

Chimps and bonobos do indeed eat meat, but it comprises a small fraction of their diets. Even most herbivores aren't vegan due to insect consumption.

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:47 AM

Chimps eat meat!

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:33 AM

One weird beneficial result - I've learned not to proselytize my diet - no one wants to hear me preach. If they are interested they'll ask. If I look healthy they'll be interested. Otherwise, the last thing I want to look like anymore is a diet nut with an agenda.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:30 AM

80% carbohydrate - almost entirely from sweet fruit 10% protein - almost all from green leaves 10% fat - coconut/avocados/nuts % by calorie All raw Daily = Pounds and pounds of raw fruit, a huge heap of greens (figure several heads of romaine and a bag of spinach or two), part of an avocado. You can google it and find out more.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Karen what is it exactly 80-10-10 ?

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on March 10, 2011
at 10:47 PM

also, testosterone in women helps their libido so I'd say a low fat diet is probably bad for them too.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 10, 2011
at 10:45 PM

But 1/2 raw, 1/2 cooked might be a really good idea.

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:59 PM

Good edit Mike. Cutting the processed 'garbage' out of your diet may allow you to thrive. Ironically LFRW may also initially feel great on the diet becuase their body is getting the meat it craves - their own flesh and blood. Just as every dieter, if they are losing weight, is actually on a high fat diet (albeit their own fat stores they are consuming), non-meat eaters will be on an animal product diet (at least in the short term), their own flesh and blood!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:51 PM

It's dangerous, downvoting for recommending. I strogly disagree.

B61f6513a155cd874b42efdad55312f6

(231)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:17 PM

nice, thanks! you've essentially proven my statement about my inability to thoroughly search.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Not so. Women do not make as much testosterone out of fat. Estrogen is their thing and you need it to be fertile. See Kaylaa T Daniel's blog posts and books.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:03 PM

do you imply that women should follow a low fat diet, to reduce their tetosterone?

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:52 PM

The Vegetarian Myth has become part of the Paleo canon and offers up lots of reasons why its not good for you and why you shouldn't go for it. http://www.lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:51 PM

You might be right. Have you read 'Catching Fire'? it gives you an idea of how much time primates spend eating each day to get adequate calories. Whatever is said about fructose, 'raw' is also a bad idea!

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I think the autophagy/calorie restriction from many of these plant heavy diets is the best thing going for them.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:31 PM

theres another good discussion on an old thread here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/24619/durianrider-on-paleo-diet/24631#24631

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:26 PM

Here is an old thread: http://paleohacks.com/questions/7562/your-thoughts-on-the-30-bananas-a-day-site Not to cut off dialogue, but to provide reference.

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19 Answers

10
F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

on March 10, 2011
at 07:17 PM

Low fat raw vegan? They are fighting evolution drivers. Their bodies will digest themselves (autophagy). Some may thrive short to medium term. Long term, who knows? Many will have to supplement. Some will become ex-LFRV. Why not enjoy fruit as part of a nutritionally complete diet?

Explicitly, w.r.t 30BAD - they are idealogically incoherent, militant in attitude, authoritarian and philosophically inflexible. They ignore science and champion misinformation. Like anything that can't or won't adapt, 30BAD will not survive.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I think the autophagy/calorie restriction from many of these plant heavy diets is the best thing going for them.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 10, 2011
at 10:45 PM

But 1/2 raw, 1/2 cooked might be a really good idea.

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:51 PM

You might be right. Have you read 'Catching Fire'? it gives you an idea of how much time primates spend eating each day to get adequate calories. Whatever is said about fructose, 'raw' is also a bad idea!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 11, 2011
at 03:46 PM

when i saw 30BAD, i could not believe some of the thigns they wrote on their welcome page. jaw droppingly stupid. "militant in attitude"... "philosophically inflexible". it's impossible to describe their attitude with more appropriate verbiage than you have done here Asclepius. http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/response-to-b-of-30-bananas-day-about.html

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 11, 2011
at 08:32 AM

Karen - yeah, some salad and fruit (which would both be usually be eaten raw), is part of the mix.

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:22 PM

Hi Jack - yeah their welcome page is pretty shocking. What I like about the paleo 'model' is that it is evolving. For example carbohydrate is coming back into the model and there is a scientifically led flexibility on things like dairy. By comparison, 30BAD's a priori stance is ludicrous.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on July 14, 2012
at 04:57 PM

Coming from experience ( part of the 30 Bananas a Day crowd for close to a year) it actually almost killed me. Thank god I found paleo!

9
5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 10, 2011
at 10:38 PM

Some of the 80-10-10 people will become us. I did. Some of the philosophy is surprisingly the same. Many 80-10-10 eaters are intending to eat an evolutionarily appropriate diet - they are just misinformed about what that actually is. I will say that eating that way gave me an excellent appreciation for eating more simply and a love of leafy greens. Surprisingly it wasn't boring - it sort of reset my taste buds to appreciate more natural food.

Personally, I felt FANTASTIC eating that way - for the 1st 2 months. Then it was all down hill. But - you learn to clean out the crap - the nasty O6 oils, the grains etc. So, I try not to get in arguments with them - give them time and many will do a bit more research and come around.

ADDED: In no way am I suggesting that 80-10-10 is a good idea. I'm sure the extreme sugar load was horrible for me. And notice that I felt good for all of 2 months. Don't do it. But be nice to the people, don't deliberately antagonize them. They might be sitting down with a nice steak or salmon next to you next year.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:33 AM

One weird beneficial result - I've learned not to proselytize my diet - no one wants to hear me preach. If they are interested they'll ask. If I look healthy they'll be interested. Otherwise, the last thing I want to look like anymore is a diet nut with an agenda.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Karen what is it exactly 80-10-10 ?

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:30 AM

80% carbohydrate - almost entirely from sweet fruit 10% protein - almost all from green leaves 10% fat - coconut/avocados/nuts % by calorie All raw Daily = Pounds and pounds of raw fruit, a huge heap of greens (figure several heads of romaine and a bag of spinach or two), part of an avocado. You can google it and find out more.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on July 14, 2012
at 04:58 PM

There is a honeymoon period and then your body/mental status declines.

6
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 11, 2011
at 06:23 AM

In the end look at their motivations and arguments. They argue that "their diet is perfect for all humans, perfect for the environment, doesn't kill animals, is the absolute best diet you can possibly eat in every single way."

I don't think my diet is perfect in every way and it's hard to discern what's best for others. I am very suspicious of people who claim one perfect diet, particularly if they are incredibly ignorant of ecology, anthropology, anatomy, zoology, economics, agriculture, biochemistry, genetics, nutritional science, and horticulture.

I think it's possible for some people to do well on such a diet, particularly healthy adult males. I guess it's working for CastleGrok now, but he's not militantly strict and hasn't been doing it that long. I wish him and all humans well in their experiments in finding diets best for themselves. I accept the limits of human knowledge and the diversity of our species and don't feel qualified to say what's the best diet ever, but I think based on logic we can rule out this diet as some "natural human species diet."

6
5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

on March 11, 2011
at 04:23 AM

I don't think about them.

Seriously, what's there to think about? They're wrong, end of story, move on to more interesting problems.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 07:09 AM

True. Maybe I do because they are easy targets. Bigger fish to fry, perhaos? Like what is optimal paleo, perhaps. That's a good one.

5
Medium avatar

on March 10, 2011
at 11:04 PM

I will disagree with most here and say that it's technically "paleo" in certain circumstances. For example, the Hadza have a 2-month stretch when a particular berry (undushipi aka Cordia gharaf) comes into season that totally dominates their diets (~80%). That's a pretty substantial stretch of massive fruit consumption that would have likely occurred for many HGs in the tropics throughout our evolution. When a relatively easy food source presents itself, foragers will exploit it to the furthest extent that they can, even though the berry season doesn't necessarily coincide with a decline in game or anything that would push them toward it. The lure of fructose is also strong. For example, when asked to rank their preference for everything they eat, honey is the most sought-after for the Hadza.

That being said, such a diet is terrible for health, even if the remainder is meat and fat. The number of deficiencies that would develop would be large and would place someone very far from optimal human health. You could stay alive on it for a while, but it would likely wreak havoc on many systems. 30 bananas a day in particular is a fast-track to reactive hypoglycemia.

Many fruitarians point to chimps as a reason why we should eat in a similar way, and indeed the common ancestor that we share with chimps was likely as frugivorous as they are now, so we do have a good portion of our (somewhat recent) evolution that is consistent with this practice. The problem with this reasoning is that 5-7 million years have elapsed since that point and we are not the same beasts now as we were.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 11, 2011
at 06:09 AM

RG73, do you have a reference for the figure of a ton a year that gets you the 2.5 oz a day? I read a fair amount of primatology at one point, but it was a while ago and it was definitely Goodall and other big-namers (like de Waal) and I think they all claimed that the meat intake was only around 3-4% of the diet or something like that. I'm especially surprised since Gombe is where Goodall was for her research, and for several decades. (Of course I also wouldn't be surprised if a pre-existing bias led her to mistakes in observation or analysis.)

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 11, 2011
at 06:19 AM

And it looks like it would get you 4 oz of monkey a day: 4,000 lbs divided by 365 days = 10.96 lbs per day, divided by 45 members = .24 lbs. But I guess 4 oz of monkey doesn't give you 4 oz of meat. Though if youngsters are included in the chimp count, then you've probably got some of the big males eating 8 oz of meat on some days, and that's significant ...

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:30 AM

Chimps in the Gombe National Park hunt a lot. One 45 member tribe was estimated to kill about a ton of colobus monkey per year. I think that works out to about 2.5 oz of monkey meat per day, per chimp, for a primate that runs between 80 and 120 lbs. The males also trade the meat for sex. So there is an evolutionary advantage to hunting. The chimps don't eat much meat is probably a Goodall myth. Sort of like the Bonobo's are peaceful, nymphomaniacs myth. Both chimp species and humans all like to fight, f**k, and kill other mammals.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on March 11, 2011
at 07:54 AM

let's not forget the insects (termite fishing with sticks): protein, low fat, but protein none the less. I somewhere read that they like to start the day looking for insects first, and only then eating plants and fruits. Forgot where I read it though...

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on March 11, 2011
at 12:47 AM

Chimps eat meat!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 11, 2011
at 01:00 AM

Chimps and bonobos do indeed eat meat, but it comprises a small fraction of their diets. Even most herbivores aren't vegan due to insect consumption.

3cdc762b2ae30b4ca3529f011ccac174

(186)

on July 15, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Paul: http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html - Chimps are brutal hunters who will chase down colobus monkeys and tear them apart limb from limb while still alive. Chimps would eat more meat, but without weapons other than rocks, their hunting abilities are limited, esp. as the colobus are very fast. Goodall's dream world of cute li'l veggies chimps has been dramatically disproved.

4
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 03:52 AM

I just want to add something like.

http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/world-reknowned-cardiologist?id=2684079%3ATopic%3A549272&page=1#comments

The gist: some cardiologist says that carnivores do not get atherosclerosis and only herbivores get atherosclerosis. Therefore we get 7 pages and over a hundred excited fruitarians who believe that they have proved that humans are herbivores. Not a single word of dissent.

I have done a fair bit of research on atherosclerosis and usually I come across animal studies...in rats. Rats are omnivorous. Rats clearly get atherosclerosis. Ergo, an OMNIVORE that is not a human can get atherosclerosis. Sigh.

It may be premature to say "don't be a fruit vegan their brains are mush, they can't think critically and live in a world of false dichotomy, but perhaps it is the lack of critical thought that produces the fruit vegan.

Either way I wouldn't want to be associated with these people.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on April 07, 2011
at 12:35 PM

they didnt get the connection that plants are correlated with atherosclerosis and meat is safe?

3
691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I think all-fruit diets are masking some sort of starvation diet or something. Just doesn't seem like a person can be healthy long term on that diet without intravenous vitamin supplements. I am guessing when they get older their bones are gonna be brittle and their muscles wasted no matter what they might be like today. Also I wonder what % of their day is spent on the toilet eating all those bananas.

Edit - I just want to add another thought I just had. One reason people probably feel great initially on the all-fruit diet is that they completely drop gluten, legumes, O6 oils, dairy products. Just giving up grains probably does amazing things for people without them realizing, but its no way as good as eating a natural paleo-style diet that has all the vitamins and nutrients the human body needs.

F040035b2008ec80b205481afbd39ad4

(1837)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:59 PM

Good edit Mike. Cutting the processed 'garbage' out of your diet may allow you to thrive. Ironically LFRW may also initially feel great on the diet becuase their body is getting the meat it craves - their own flesh and blood. Just as every dieter, if they are losing weight, is actually on a high fat diet (albeit their own fat stores they are consuming), non-meat eaters will be on an animal product diet (at least in the short term), their own flesh and blood!

1
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:36 PM

I prefer herbivores to frugavores. Cows, bison, deer, elk, moose, goat, and sheep are all herbivores. I honestly couldn't think of a single animal that I would eat that is a frugavore. HMMM....makes me wonder.

1
A201f99e84f4071875e016d7b9603276

on July 14, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Douglas GRaham is an outright fraud with no credibility whatsoever.

1
1acc4ee9381d9a8d998b59915b3f997e

(2099)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:07 PM

To me, it looks like they're trying to reach altered states of consciousness with diet...the real food sources of those states having been outlawed...and I think everything they say about why they eat that way is rationalization.

p.s. Also, people have always used starvation (fasting) to reach altered states of consciousness.

1
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:55 PM

I could go into the reasons why a high fat diet containing meat is healthier than a low fat diet without but all that really needs to be said is...

http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/2010/10/decrease-of-testosterone-during-low-fat.html

Aahahaha! Girly men girly men.

I think that macronutrient restriction (low carb diets can fit this description) are a band-aide for poor health. They both reduce fasting insulin. But I would like to see Monkey boys eat a large steak, a side of creamed coconut, a large sweet potato and a bunch of fruit every day and not get sick. I can do it with excellent health and energy. They start crying about fat more than 10% of calories. It is a crutch for the weak and sub-optimal.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:35 AM

And therefore bad for men! Man's well-being is proportional to the sexual voracity of his lady. Unless he's a vegan and limp dick.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on March 10, 2011
at 10:47 PM

also, testosterone in women helps their libido so I'd say a low fat diet is probably bad for them too.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:33 AM

And bad for men!

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:03 PM

do you imply that women should follow a low fat diet, to reduce their tetosterone?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Not so. Women do not make as much testosterone out of fat. Estrogen is their thing and you need it to be fertile. See Kaylaa T Daniel's blog posts and books.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:34 PM

low fat is bad for both male and female hormones.

1
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on March 10, 2011
at 07:47 PM

Kitavans and Okinawa people did very well on diets with tons of vegetables or fruits but also a decent amount of fish, meat and animal fat. On the other hand, I do not think "fruits only" is a good choice, long term, not at all...

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:33 AM

Okinawans do very well eating lots of fatty pork. And sweet potatoes (like the Kitavans).

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on April 07, 2011
at 12:36 PM

starches yes, what fruit did they consume in any large quantity?

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on April 07, 2011
at 03:52 PM

LOL @ using coconut as a fruit example. Might be totally correct but still.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on April 07, 2011
at 03:18 PM

I understand that coconut is a fruit, and it is the basic staple of kitavan diet.

0
3a569ffd611f81bf9f1048ff8274afb8

on June 02, 2013
at 04:53 AM

"Such patterns of frugivory, with a possible shift from soft to harder fruits, apparently persisted until the appearance of hominids, including the australopithecines, gorillas, chimpanzees, and the genus Homo (Walker 1981; Grine and Kay 1988; Andrews and Martin 1991; Andrews 1992). The Homo-Pan divergence occurred at 4.5-5.5 Ma, with an earlier split of Gorilla at 5.5-7 Ma (Goodman et al. 1994). Diets of early hominids are not known with any precision, but a similarity with the diet of modern chimpanzees has been inferred (e.g., Gaulin and Konner 1977; Grine and Kay 1988). Chimpanzees feed preferentially on plant material (approximately 94% of the diet), mostly in the form of energy-rich ripe fruits (Ghiglieri 1984; McGrew et al. 1988; Wrangham et al. 1991; Malenky and Wrangham 1994). Lowland gorillas consume large quantities of sugar-rich fruit in an opportunistic fashion, according to availability (Rogers et al. 1990; Williamson et al. 1990; Tutin et al. 1991; Kuroda et al. 1996; Yamagiwa et al. 1996; Remis 1997), and the generally folivorous (leaf-eating) mountain gorillas also engage seasonally in frugivory (Goodall 1977;Yamagiwa and Mwanza 1994). Dietary diversification has clearly characterized hominids within the last 5 Ma (e.g., Sponheimer and Lee-Thorp 1999), particularly with the inclusion of animal fat and protein. Even in modern hunter-gatherer societies, however, such sources of food represent less than 50% of the total diet (see Eaton and Konner 1985; Milton 1987).

In sum, these observations suggest a deep-reaching frugivorous heritage for the human diet. Most suggestive is the predominantly frugivorous diet of our closest relatives, the chimpanzees, together with either nearly exclusive frugivory (gibbons, orangutans) or partial frugivory (gorillas) in all other extant hominoid taxa."

Evolutionary Origins of Human Alcoholism in Primate Frugivory Robert Dudley The Quarterly Review of Biology , Vol. 75, No. 1 (Mar., 2000), pp. 3-15 Published by: The University of Chicago Press Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2664497

0
4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on July 14, 2012
at 07:29 PM

I was just watching The Deer Hunter (fantastic movie), and one of the bits of trivia about that movie is that, to get the gaunt, sunken look he has in the final scene, Christopher Walken ate only bananas and rice for over a month. Anyone who's seen the movie will agree that it's not a healthy look.

(Anecdote alert, obviously)

0
E8bf28bd28f5be7c34d4a1a97e7c1353

(253)

on July 14, 2012
at 07:22 PM

I was basically a frugivore/811er for 4 years. I also know many personally who have been following such a diet for longer, 10+ years. It obviously is sustainable for some people, but wasnt for me. I felt amazing for the first couple years, then slowly downhill for the next two. Let me know if any of you have any questions regarding the diet and my experience with it.

One thing I can say inconclusively is that fruit alone does NOT make you fat. Based on myself and many others I have known, eating up to 4000 calories and more from fruit/simple carbs, and not gaining a pound.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Our bodies do not resemble other frugavores or herbivores. If so, humans would taste a lot better grilled.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 14, 2012
at 07:49 PM

As a strong proponent of eating meat, I understand that sometimes anomalies exist, and there are people that eat a ton of trans fats(which everyone agrees are bad) and doesn't get sick from it, and others that eat a seemingly healthy diet and do have issues. Just because it works for some also doesn't make it ideal for most, or even for them. But I don't think there is a one size fits all. it sure wouldn't fit me.

0
E5620436c0bd3ad0459e27dfbfbcfb0a

(8)

on July 14, 2012
at 03:42 PM

Pretty subjective stuff. Nothing to run with here but some guesses and opinions.This seems like another 'right way and only way to do it' camp, bummer. Have fun being right y'all. Question, what does the body turn into glucose during ketosis? What causes ketosis? I am aware of the clinical answer to these questions. I would love to be turned on to clinical type conversations if anyone is aware of any?

-Cheers

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2011
at 06:44 PM

I personally think they should be rounded up and put into some kind of "rehabilitation" center :) How dare they challenge my TRUTH! :)

0
9055f14c31610afd4d3068ec48eb6d90

(984)

on April 07, 2011
at 12:03 PM

Do you the reason why people lose so much weight or feel healthy on this type of lifestyle is because they exercise like crazy? It seems that they do alot of endurance type of exercising?

-1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:43 PM

If you think its good for you go for it* Its totally different than paleo diet.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on March 10, 2011
at 08:51 PM

It's dangerous, downvoting for recommending. I strogly disagree.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:52 PM

The Vegetarian Myth has become part of the Paleo canon and offers up lots of reasons why its not good for you and why you shouldn't go for it. http://www.lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm

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