6

votes

Why should I eat fruit separate from my other food?!

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 03, 2011 at 8:55 PM

I came across another thread, and people kept suggesting that the questioner eat fruit separately from other foods, and dont eat within an hour before or after eating it. WHY?! I like to eat berries with breakfast or lunch....if this is messing me up, I'd like to know.

Also, why should you eat the raw foods of your meal before your cooked items?

Thanks!

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:34 PM

It was good for them, otherwise they would have stopped doing it eventually. Weston Price didn't find any epidemics of indigestion in the native cultures he studied, and I doubt that most of these cultures made the time or effort to combine their foods in specific ways. This means that something drastically changed our ability to digest foods properly in recent history, and the most important (but not the only) culprit IMO is imbalance in intestinal flora, as opposed to combining foods improperly.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:30 PM

@corey I was thinking about that too. The gut making a little vodka out of those potatoes to go along with the steak.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:25 PM

Using Stefansson's lack of scurvy when he ate raw brain and liver as a reason why you will thrive on no vitamin C as a ZC'er is crazy in my opinion.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:15 PM

I followed the fruit before meals, or as an isolated snack idea for a few years because fruit after a meal would give me heartburn and make me burpy. I agree that it has everything to do with the state of your digestive tract because I don't experience that phenomenon anymore and will sometimes have a piece of fruit for dessert with no problems now.

9b0a4701e373d4dd13831cfb9b13f42d

(1677)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:13 PM

What happens to the alcohoal as a byproduct the fermentaion process then? A simple breathalyzer after a steak and 5-10 pieces of fruit would prove this myth BUSTED.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:53 PM

You have to pick your obsessions. There's not enough time for all of them.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:50 PM

@Travis: yes, its very probable. Unless you eat brainz, eys, stomach and adrenals, and take special care of your bifidobacteria and their friends, there are is big probabilty you are deficient.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:48 PM

that would be nice. +1 for the effort :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:46 PM

Also, bacterial proliferation means more active immune system which generates ROS which is toxic.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:45 PM

About toxins, intestines can be home to anaerobic bacteria (see SIBO for instance) which are known to have very toxic metabolites.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:38 PM

Now... about lactic acid.. it was only ad hoc sentence... there are many compounds involved apart from lactic acid. What are right conditions to make lactic acid btw ? It requires higher temperatures so it looks like gut is perfect if its not overpopulated by candida and friends.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:37 PM

No, I know about detoxing strategies from liver to kidney to colon. Cleansing isn't that unnatural really. I know that ortodox medicine proponents think its woo, but it occurs on many different places independently - from farmers using zeolit on farm animals to gerson therapy for cancer to hulda clarks parasite cleansing...

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:06 PM

maj I'm talking lactose fermentation reality. If I don't control it I get no yogurt. Sanitary milk, live lactobacillus, right temperature. Not very similar to gut culture, which does not appear to me to have the right conditions to make lactic acid. (As for reading material, don't tell me you've missed The Master Cleanse?)

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:31 PM

ha, fair enough, makjinetor. i know i read a better article online discrediting this at some point, will try to dig it up.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:21 PM

@thhq: no, I don't read 'practical woman' like you. You are seriously delusional if you can compare yogurt with intestines at any level.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:06 PM

Because I was being sarcastic.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:48 PM

Avocados are the devil? Why does my skin improve when I eat them from time to time, then?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:35 PM

Travis and majkinetor, I have no qualifications at all so let me just say I enjoy your dialogue and a large feed of fatty meat followed by a grapefruit is heavenly for me.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:32 PM

I support Jon's assumption that if people ate in certain ways for hundreds or thousands of year's they probably developed a good sense of what worked best even if their version of the double-blind study was to sit around the fire comparing aches and pains. :-))

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:31 PM

This man speaks the truth. I once ate a fruit and some fat/protein. My stomach melted. Avocadoes are fruit with fat in them, they are of the devil!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:28 PM

Hmm. Raw salad followed by cooked meat/veggies followed by raw fruit? Sounds ideal to me!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:26 PM

Yeah, so you'd definitely at least agree that these zero-carbers who are zero-C'ers as well are misguided, right?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Toxic buildup? This sounds like hocus pocus maj. Have you been reading cleanse blogs lately? My yogurt batches take 4-6 hours to ferment under controlled conditions hotter than body trmp. I find it hard to beleve that stomach pH, temp and dwell time are ideal for doing lactic acid fermentation.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:43 PM

I do think that C + protein is WIN WIN combination, to say it in advance. Protein boosts gastrin production which conserves vitamin C (it doesn't work well if pH > 4-5) plus it up regulates GLUT expression without rising glucose to much. So, low carbers do need less C then high carbers, however, both need far more C then RDA :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:42 PM

I do think that C + protein is WIN WIN combination, to say it in advance. Protein boosts gastrin production which conserves vitamin C (it doesn't work well if pH > 4-5) plus it up regulates GLUT expression without rising glucose.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:40 PM

OK. It will take few weeks tho. There are lot of things to consider and I have to read up again some stuff about SVCT transporters. And I really need to get back to serious machine programming vs human one :)

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:29 PM

cliff: I fail to see what your point is. maj: I think you should create a topic with a title like "Do Low-Carbers Need Less Vitamin C than the Rest of Us?" and then go into why it shouldn't make a difference and that everyone needs a lot, assuming you agree with that statement. Your expertise on the subject is far beyond anyone I have encountered.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:40 PM

Cliff, now I am piking up on you: The present studies, taken together with the previous apple study, suggest that the plasma insulin and glucose responses to whole fruit depend on both the glucose and fiber contents of the fruit. The removal of fiber in the production of fruit juice can usually be expected to enhance the insulin response and result in **rebound hypoglycemia**

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Conclusion: The present studies, taken together with the previous apple study, suggest that the plasma insulin and glucose responses to whole fruit depend on both the glucose and fiber contents of the fruit. The removal of fiber in the production of fruit juice can usually be expected to **enhance the insulin response and result in “rebound hypoglycemia.”**

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Yes, it rises insulin even better: http://www.ajcn.org/content/34/2/211.full.pdf (page 214)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Again, I don't know if food combining is effective way. I read a lot about it nowdays to check it, and I still don't know... there are pro on con conclusions on various places. Noting conclusive. Gastroparesis might be a good model to check.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:27 PM

You assume a lot. When stomach is empty its most acidic. With food intake, the acid is reduced quite a lot, with some foods more then with others. But... thats the whole point of food combining. Also, keep in mind that people report having mild or acute bloating around, or that you notice yourself every time. Most people think its normal to have some small GI problems after meal.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:44 PM

I meant that there is no fermentation going on at the pH in my stomach.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:38 PM

Is that personal opinion ? Nobody talks about raw vs cooked foods - for instance food combining in general allows vegetable combining with anything.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:30 PM

to support what exactly ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:30 PM

The same is with me - more then single fruit in the morning alone and I feel like have big glycemia with acid in stomach...

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:22 PM

orange juice raises blood sugar just as much as pure glucose

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:21 PM

there is no studies to support this its just natural hygiene make believe

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:04 AM

"Enough acid".... that is not something to be assumed. As always there are 2 sides of equation - protection from pathogens via strong acid, and toxication of strong acid to duodenum. Balance is crucial here.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:36 AM

There are a lot of combinations when you think about it. I expect it all depends on how well your stomach is working. With enough acid in there nothing is going to happen to the fruit, no matter how long it sits there. I'm hoping to be able to keep eating my apple and cheese for some time to come :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:34 AM

Not paleo, just tasty. If eating fruit with food causes you a problem, such as indigestion, then don't do it but don't be worried about eating fruit with other food if it is not causing you any problems.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:01 AM

But it is an art, not science....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:01 AM

Some more combinations that rock: Green banana + pork goulash, wild duck in the sauce of wild orange, plum and green apple on top of potato which is soaked in pork fat, ananas and chicken is common theme in Chinese, wild fruit jam + wild game .... all amazingly tasty...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 09:58 AM

So you guys think that mixing bunch of different foods is paleo ? Thats lol really... Not that I have strong opinion on it, but if something is common sense, this is.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 09:57 AM

@Travis, could you clarify your vitamin C request there at little meri's topic about Quilt ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:35 AM

Each food does contain all, but that doesn't matter much as its in different ratio. As always, its about dominant macronutrient.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:35 AM

-1. What a lousy rebutal ...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:33 AM

What a lousy rebutal ....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:32 AM

The fact that traditional cultures mixed it does not explain is it good or not.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Realism Matthew....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Yup...............

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:00 AM

I'm the same way. My mother was a Fit for Lifer in the 80's and she'd insist eating nothing but fruit until noon was best. I remember feeling totally ill, acidic stomach, and sugar buzzed as a child. It did and still doesn't work for me. Now some berries with some full fat yogurt works fine though.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:38 AM

I believe he means the fruit digests in 20-30 minutes if eaten alone. Fermentation takes hours.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 04, 2011
at 01:58 AM

Apple and cheese rocks!

F4aff43df6a8a49a1c3879c1233ee560

(459)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:31 AM

ferment in 20-30 min? not likely.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 03, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Pessimism maj :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 03, 2011
at 10:51 PM

If your digestion is fine, that still doesn't mean it wont get sucky when you get to 30ies. Many people don't get good effects when they combine such foods, from personal experience. Cooking potential is great tho... liver and grapes for instance are perfect combination, or plum and potatoe

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 03, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I'll post them in next few weeks.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Studies to support this?

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Apple and cheese!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Never heard of this "paleo" rule. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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13 Answers

8
6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:10 AM

I have done a lot of research on this subject, so I feel qualified to give my opinion. I first learned about the theory of food combining from the book Fit For Life, which is founded on the Natural Hygiene alternative medical system. It made sense in theory, and it didn't make my health worse in any way as long as I applied the theory, but it was just too inconvenient to have to eat various food groups together or separately.

So the more I researched this subject, the more I learned that there were no scientific studies whatsoever to support the theory, nor was there any epidemiological evidence to support it. Virtually every culture in the world combines multiple food types in one meal in ways that would be deemed improper according to the food combining theory. One example that most paleo veterans are familiar with is pemmican made by the American Indians, which traditionally combined berries of some type and whatever meat was available. They obviously did not experience indigestion from these food combinations or they would not have continued eating them.

Comparing hunter gatherer cultures with modern Western cultures like Weston Price did, one major difference relating to digestion (or indigestion) kept appearing: dysbiosis/leaky gut. HG cultures were not exposed to the many causes of this condition present in the modern world (antibiotics, gluten consumption/excess stress, etc.), so they could combine foods any way they pleased without any digestive difficulties. However, when anyone with dysbiosis/leaky gut combines foods that digest quickly, especially fruits, with foods that digest slowly, especially meats, the fruits remain in the stomach long enough for the pathogenic bacteria and yeasts to ferment them, which causes indigestion and several other problems.

In summary, there is a reason why every traditional culture in the world (HG or agrarian) consumes cultured foods at every meal or at least every day, and why everyone living in Western or industrialized nations should do the same, or at least take a high quality probiotic once a day with meals. Indigestion is an effect caused by dysbiosis/leaky gut or related GI conditions, not improper food combining.

Btw, supplementing with Betain HCl capsules and digestive enzymes will help most people with indigestion also. Lemon juice, aloe vera, apple cider vinegar, and ginger are also very helpful, plus they have many other health benefits in addition to improving digestion.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:32 AM

The fact that traditional cultures mixed it does not explain is it good or not.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:32 PM

I support Jon's assumption that if people ate in certain ways for hundreds or thousands of year's they probably developed a good sense of what worked best even if their version of the double-blind study was to sit around the fire comparing aches and pains. :-))

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:15 PM

I followed the fruit before meals, or as an isolated snack idea for a few years because fruit after a meal would give me heartburn and make me burpy. I agree that it has everything to do with the state of your digestive tract because I don't experience that phenomenon anymore and will sometimes have a piece of fruit for dessert with no problems now.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:34 PM

It was good for them, otherwise they would have stopped doing it eventually. Weston Price didn't find any epidemics of indigestion in the native cultures he studied, and I doubt that most of these cultures made the time or effort to combine their foods in specific ways. This means that something drastically changed our ability to digest foods properly in recent history, and the most important (but not the only) culprit IMO is imbalance in intestinal flora, as opposed to combining foods improperly.

6
Cdee7454bccdc4ac14ec23b9657eb573

on November 04, 2011
at 12:17 PM

Our digestive systems are much more robust than many think. Most folks should have no trouble 1) handling fruit in combination with other foods, and 2) mixing raw with cooked foods. YMMV.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:38 PM

Is that personal opinion ? Nobody talks about raw vs cooked foods - for instance food combining in general allows vegetable combining with anything.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:28 PM

Hmm. Raw salad followed by cooked meat/veggies followed by raw fruit? Sounds ideal to me!

6
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:31 PM

Just personal experience:

I eat fruit with or after other foods all the time and have never experienced any problem.

  • Apple with cheese.

  • Meat for dinner followed by and orange for dessert.

  • I also eat raw foods and cooked foods mixed together.

If your digestion is working fine don't worry about it.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:36 AM

There are a lot of combinations when you think about it. I expect it all depends on how well your stomach is working. With enough acid in there nothing is going to happen to the fruit, no matter how long it sits there. I'm hoping to be able to keep eating my apple and cheese for some time to come :)

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Apple and cheese!

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 04, 2011
at 01:58 AM

Apple and cheese rocks!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:04 AM

"Enough acid".... that is not something to be assumed. As always there are 2 sides of equation - protection from pathogens via strong acid, and toxication of strong acid to duodenum. Balance is crucial here.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 03, 2011
at 10:51 PM

If your digestion is fine, that still doesn't mean it wont get sucky when you get to 30ies. Many people don't get good effects when they combine such foods, from personal experience. Cooking potential is great tho... liver and grapes for instance are perfect combination, or plum and potatoe

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:01 AM

Some more combinations that rock: Green banana + pork goulash, wild duck in the sauce of wild orange, plum and green apple on top of potato which is soaked in pork fat, ananas and chicken is common theme in Chinese, wild fruit jam + wild game .... all amazingly tasty...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 10:01 AM

But it is an art, not science....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:27 PM

You assume a lot. When stomach is empty its most acidic. With food intake, the acid is reduced quite a lot, with some foods more then with others. But... thats the whole point of food combining. Also, keep in mind that people report having mild or acute bloating around, or that you notice yourself every time. Most people think its normal to have some small GI problems after meal.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 03, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Pessimism maj :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Again, I don't know if food combining is effective way. I read a lot about it nowdays to check it, and I still don't know... there are pro on con conclusions on various places. Noting conclusive. Gastroparesis might be a good model to check.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Realism Matthew....

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:44 PM

I meant that there is no fermentation going on at the pH in my stomach.

5
Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 04:41 PM

I once bought into the elaborate food-combining schemata. Then it occurred to me I lacked the core obsessional instincts to be that paranoid about everything I might eat. I think Travis is probably right in his basic recommendations above. But for those of you are truly into reverse engineering your life through fantasies of what They did or did not do, don't go only part way, take the logic all out: Did They spend hours separating their food groups? Or did They (probably) eat whatever they had when they had it and when they wanted to eat it? So far, so good, next question: Whose genome did we inherit? Theirs.

Kidding aside: Of COURSE we can make better choices than our Paleo ancestors did. That's why I use the term "Paleo Plus" for my approach. I join a basic ancestral-health sensibility, with our modern/postmodern post-Paleo medical/health advantages; and I continuously make choices about how to live my own life. Trial and error, live by experiment. N=1 and at the same time: N=all the other samples (experience of others, science, studies, research, clinical trials) that seem relevant.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:53 PM

You have to pick your obsessions. There's not enough time for all of them.

3
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 03, 2011
at 10:05 PM

I've heard this piece of folklore for years, and followed it for a long time too. But I believe it's been generally discredited as bunk.

http://healthinmotion.wordpress.com/2007/12/23/facts-and-fears-about-the-food-combining-myth/

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:48 PM

that would be nice. +1 for the effort :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:35 AM

Each food does contain all, but that doesn't matter much as its in different ratio. As always, its about dominant macronutrient.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:35 AM

-1. What a lousy rebutal ...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:33 AM

What a lousy rebutal ....

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:31 PM

ha, fair enough, makjinetor. i know i read a better article online discrediting this at some point, will try to dig it up.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:21 PM

Because fat and protein will slow down stomach emptying and fruit, which naturally digest very fast if alone (in around 20-30 minutes) will stay there and ferment. Product of fermentation are various acidic substances like lactic acid which will further block the release of gastric acid thus the entire mix will find itself in environment which is not suitable for fast digestion. This leads to toxic buildup due to increased metabolism of stomach bacteria.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 03, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I'll post them in next few weeks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:30 PM

to support what exactly ?

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Studies to support this?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:21 PM

@thhq: no, I don't read 'practical woman' like you. You are seriously delusional if you can compare yogurt with intestines at any level.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Yup...............

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:06 PM

maj I'm talking lactose fermentation reality. If I don't control it I get no yogurt. Sanitary milk, live lactobacillus, right temperature. Not very similar to gut culture, which does not appear to me to have the right conditions to make lactic acid. (As for reading material, don't tell me you've missed The Master Cleanse?)

F4aff43df6a8a49a1c3879c1233ee560

(459)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:31 AM

ferment in 20-30 min? not likely.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:21 PM

there is no studies to support this its just natural hygiene make believe

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:38 AM

I believe he means the fruit digests in 20-30 minutes if eaten alone. Fermentation takes hours.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:31 PM

This man speaks the truth. I once ate a fruit and some fat/protein. My stomach melted. Avocadoes are fruit with fat in them, they are of the devil!

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:06 PM

Because I was being sarcastic.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Toxic buildup? This sounds like hocus pocus maj. Have you been reading cleanse blogs lately? My yogurt batches take 4-6 hours to ferment under controlled conditions hotter than body trmp. I find it hard to beleve that stomach pH, temp and dwell time are ideal for doing lactic acid fermentation.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:48 PM

Avocados are the devil? Why does my skin improve when I eat them from time to time, then?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:38 PM

Now... about lactic acid.. it was only ad hoc sentence... there are many compounds involved apart from lactic acid. What are right conditions to make lactic acid btw ? It requires higher temperatures so it looks like gut is perfect if its not overpopulated by candida and friends.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:37 PM

No, I know about detoxing strategies from liver to kidney to colon. Cleansing isn't that unnatural really. I know that ortodox medicine proponents think its woo, but it occurs on many different places independently - from farmers using zeolit on farm animals to gerson therapy for cancer to hulda clarks parasite cleansing...

9b0a4701e373d4dd13831cfb9b13f42d

(1677)

on November 04, 2011
at 07:13 PM

What happens to the alcohoal as a byproduct the fermentaion process then? A simple breathalyzer after a steak and 5-10 pieces of fruit would prove this myth BUSTED.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:46 PM

Also, bacterial proliferation means more active immune system which generates ROS which is toxic.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:45 PM

About toxins, intestines can be home to anaerobic bacteria (see SIBO for instance) which are known to have very toxic metabolites.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:30 PM

@corey I was thinking about that too. The gut making a little vodka out of those potatoes to go along with the steak.

1
68294383ced9a0eafc16133aa80d1905

(5795)

on October 02, 2012
at 12:41 PM

This is one of those anecdotal things in the Paleo world. Test it. Eat it with other stuff. Eat it by itself. Eat it after a meal. Eat it before a meal. Eat it at night. Eat it in the morning. Eat it in a fasted state. Eat it pre-workout. Eat it post-workout. Whatever.

If you don't like what happens, use that to make your future decision on when to eat it.

1
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 03, 2011
at 11:04 PM

Well, I for one have learned I shouldn't eat fruit FIRST, even with an hour in between, as that's the only scenario in which fruit affects my BG. I'm fine with waiting an hour, in fact it worked out that way today because I had an errand to run and ate my meat/cooked veggies before I went. Now I'll eat my salad and fruit and I'll test to see if I still have a nice flat line for BG.

When I've eaten fruit as dessert, my BG's fine but I do tend to have tumultuous digestion so maybe the 1-hour wait will be a new solution for me.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:30 PM

The same is with me - more then single fruit in the morning alone and I feel like have big glycemia with acid in stomach...

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:00 AM

I'm the same way. My mother was a Fit for Lifer in the 80's and she'd insist eating nothing but fruit until noon was best. I remember feeling totally ill, acidic stomach, and sugar buzzed as a child. It did and still doesn't work for me. Now some berries with some full fat yogurt works fine though.

0
639987480a0c8a4c5bc6dde8ecd68a94

on October 02, 2012
at 12:18 PM

I heard from my daughter and her mate (both nutritionally educated) that eating fruit separately enables the enzymes for them to work more efficiently and thus allow more absorption of the nutrients. Same for meat/soid proteins. She tells me lots of things and when she explains the technical reasons I hear "mwa mwa mwa mwa" (remember the teacher in any of the Charlie Brown movies?) but keep the highlights. So far, following their guidelines on where to eat what, whcih oils to use (depending on the temp), whole grains, gradually lowering and someday stopping meat, I have lost weight, lowered my cholesterol and blood pressure without medication. I had no problem with indigestion before or after the changes (other than when I backslid and ate greasy or fried food) but the fruit gives me more nutritional clout when I eat it for a fill-in snack rather than part of a meal, for what it's worth.

0
6ee1576ee7ea7ad481940339621ee803

on July 09, 2012
at 11:35 PM

It's not digestion, but nutrient absorption. If calcium and phosphorus block iron absorption, then eating a cheeseburger defeats the purpose of the meal. This matters to people who are iron deficient, or calcium deficient. The fiber in grains also block many minerals, so eating a sandwich makes no sense, except to fill you up. Of course, I don't have any evidence to back this up, but that's basically how I understand things from my sources that I cannot cite @ this moment.

0
77fcbf8bece61c60e3ff430d4bb5de66

(383)

on June 15, 2012
at 07:38 PM

Ori of the Warrior Diet recommends you eat fruit on an empty stomach and alone, he said to reap all the benefits of eating this super food that one should make sure they eat it on an empty stomach and alone, and then not to eat again for a few hours to maximise absorption of this superfood, i have been practising this for the last year and i highly recommend it, i feel great, i eat fruit at 3pm (it is my first meal of the day after my IF), i eat dinner at 6pm i find this easy to follow and feel fantastic, loads of energy, only thing is that i do tend to get hungry after an hour or 2 after eating fruit so it suits me to eat fruit at this time and then have dinner a few hours later

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:22 PM

  1. What specifically do you observe that is messed up? Why make eating a complicated exercise instead of something enjoyable?
  2. It takes incrementally longer to digest raw vs cooked food. Other than that I'd say it's more traditional for the raw oysters, clams, carrots and cauliflower to be appetizers.

0
Medium avatar

on November 03, 2011
at 10:55 PM

You should eat vitamin C-bearing fruits (or vitamin C in general) at a time when you're not eating starch since glucose and ascorbate are so similar in structure that the presence of one affects the absorption of another. There tends to be so much more glucose compared to ascorbate that the ascorbate would be drowned out. The glucose present in fruit tends to be less concentrated, so the overall transport channels are less likely to be saturated.

Some fruits like berries are also rich in manganese (but in fairly small amounts, all told), which you possibly deficient in. As such, the manganese absorption would be negatively impacted if eaten at the same time as a calcium-rich food like cheese.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Conclusion: The present studies, taken together with the previous apple study, suggest that the plasma insulin and glucose responses to whole fruit depend on both the glucose and fiber contents of the fruit. The removal of fiber in the production of fruit juice can usually be expected to **enhance the insulin response and result in “rebound hypoglycemia.”**

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:40 PM

Cliff, now I am piking up on you: The present studies, taken together with the previous apple study, suggest that the plasma insulin and glucose responses to whole fruit depend on both the glucose and fiber contents of the fruit. The removal of fiber in the production of fruit juice can usually be expected to enhance the insulin response and result in **rebound hypoglycemia**

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:29 PM

cliff: I fail to see what your point is. maj: I think you should create a topic with a title like "Do Low-Carbers Need Less Vitamin C than the Rest of Us?" and then go into why it shouldn't make a difference and that everyone needs a lot, assuming you agree with that statement. Your expertise on the subject is far beyond anyone I have encountered.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Yes, it rises insulin even better: http://www.ajcn.org/content/34/2/211.full.pdf (page 214)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:43 PM

I do think that C + protein is WIN WIN combination, to say it in advance. Protein boosts gastrin production which conserves vitamin C (it doesn't work well if pH > 4-5) plus it up regulates GLUT expression without rising glucose to much. So, low carbers do need less C then high carbers, however, both need far more C then RDA :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:40 PM

OK. It will take few weeks tho. There are lot of things to consider and I have to read up again some stuff about SVCT transporters. And I really need to get back to serious machine programming vs human one :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:42 PM

I do think that C + protein is WIN WIN combination, to say it in advance. Protein boosts gastrin production which conserves vitamin C (it doesn't work well if pH > 4-5) plus it up regulates GLUT expression without rising glucose.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 09:57 AM

@Travis, could you clarify your vitamin C request there at little meri's topic about Quilt ?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:35 PM

Travis and majkinetor, I have no qualifications at all so let me just say I enjoy your dialogue and a large feed of fatty meat followed by a grapefruit is heavenly for me.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:26 PM

Yeah, so you'd definitely at least agree that these zero-carbers who are zero-C'ers as well are misguided, right?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:50 PM

@Travis: yes, its very probable. Unless you eat brainz, eys, stomach and adrenals, and take special care of your bifidobacteria and their friends, there are is big probabilty you are deficient.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:22 PM

orange juice raises blood sugar just as much as pure glucose

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 04, 2011
at 08:25 PM

Using Stefansson's lack of scurvy when he ate raw brain and liver as a reason why you will thrive on no vitamin C as a ZC'er is crazy in my opinion.

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