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Carbs & Fat Cycling, AM & PM timing?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 16, 2011 at 9:43 AM

I think there might be a question on this issue, or at least it has been discussed in some other questions. I'm currently doing leangains-style approach with IF, and have a pretty decent "swing" in my carb intake: Rest days 100-120 grams, workout days 380-420 grams. Fats are about 85-100 on rest days and 40-50 on workout days.

As it is instructed on leangains-site, workout days should be low in fat, and rest days moderate. I was just curious about any thoughts you guys might have, I've started to have less carbs in the first and second meal and then about 50% of the rest day carbs in my last meal, like this

Rest day Meal #1: 100 grams prot, 20-30 grams carbs, 50-60 grams fat.

Rest day Meal #2: 60 grams prot, 20-30 grams carbs, 0-10 grams fat (this is more like a snack, and i might skip it and have a larger meal# 3).

Rest day Meal #3: 60-70 grams prot, 60-70 grams carbs, 30-40 grams fat.

I try to shoot a total of 2150-2250 cals on rest days. Is it bad to have such a high fat meal as the first rest day meal around 11-12am, say if i worked out on the previous evening and had a high prot and high carb meal around 7-8 pm? Having a high fat meal helps to keep me satisfied better throughout the rest days (sometimes i feel like eating all the time on rest days), and have majority of the carbs (starch and/or fruit) later during the day. I've noticed that fruit intake earlier the day makes me wan't it more throughout the day, and even though I'm not trying to limit fruit intake too much, I don't want to go overboard (it's pretty easy with a bag of organic tangerines or a whole cantaloupe in the fridge :)).

Also, if the last meal has about 60-70 grams of carbs from a combo of veggies/starches/1-2 servings of fruit, is 30-40 grams of fat too much accompanied with the carb intake?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:54 PM

I definetly think replacing some pro with carbs is a good option. I wouldn't worry to much about what people say, I've lost fat and gained muscle while consistently eating ~700g carbs daily. Its an individual thing, you have to expirement on yourself.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:15 PM

Thanks again. My "plan" isn't to gain weight excessively, more like body recomposition & slight weight gain is okay, as long as there's not (too much) fat gain. Would you replace some of the protein with carbs then? Because at 420 grams carbs i'm at 2.5 grams carbs / lbs bodyweight, and I've read that this is sort of an "upper limit" for bodyrecomp if one's bodyfat is in the 10-15 % (i'm not sure about my BF-% but I think it's somewhere there).

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:39 PM

If your trying to gain and are not overweight the added satiety will hold you back, you basically wanna be eating as much food as possible. If your goal is weight management your current plan looks pretty solid.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:18 PM

Yea I like to have at least 1.5 h without food before working out, more often its 2-2.5 hours. Usually I go for a little bit of starches (a little bag of frozen sliced veggies that includes a little potatoes) with a can of tuna and some fruit. But if I work out after work (around 5-6pm), I need to have two meals and the third meal is the big one. On those first two meals are somewhat similar in calories, the first havin a little more veggies and therefore more volumes than the actual pre-WO meal.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:13 PM

Thanks, and point taken from the protein amount. I've tried all of the amounts between 1 gram / pound of bodyweight and about 1.6-1.7 grams. I realized that it is more than what i need for muscle growth etc. but the amount of meat/chicken is a great satiety factor for me. I've actually thought about getting a device to measure my glucose levels, they were a lot cheaper what I thought. But so far I have no knowledge of my current levels or healthy levels (ie. where the levels should be at a certain time.=

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3 Answers

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1
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 16, 2011
at 11:52 AM

The first meal is definitely not an issue. As far as the last meal I would try it out and see how it makes you feel, look for signs of indigestion and test your postprandial glucose if possible(2 and 4 hours after).

The issue I see is that you have a pretty high amount of protien that probably isn't that necessary unless your already 250+ lbs and 10%BF. You could probably lower it to 50-60g per meal and reap the same benefits(and save some cash)

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:54 PM

I definetly think replacing some pro with carbs is a good option. I wouldn't worry to much about what people say, I've lost fat and gained muscle while consistently eating ~700g carbs daily. Its an individual thing, you have to expirement on yourself.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:13 PM

Thanks, and point taken from the protein amount. I've tried all of the amounts between 1 gram / pound of bodyweight and about 1.6-1.7 grams. I realized that it is more than what i need for muscle growth etc. but the amount of meat/chicken is a great satiety factor for me. I've actually thought about getting a device to measure my glucose levels, they were a lot cheaper what I thought. But so far I have no knowledge of my current levels or healthy levels (ie. where the levels should be at a certain time.=

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:39 PM

If your trying to gain and are not overweight the added satiety will hold you back, you basically wanna be eating as much food as possible. If your goal is weight management your current plan looks pretty solid.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:15 PM

Thanks again. My "plan" isn't to gain weight excessively, more like body recomposition & slight weight gain is okay, as long as there's not (too much) fat gain. Would you replace some of the protein with carbs then? Because at 420 grams carbs i'm at 2.5 grams carbs / lbs bodyweight, and I've read that this is sort of an "upper limit" for bodyrecomp if one's bodyfat is in the 10-15 % (i'm not sure about my BF-% but I think it's somewhere there).

best answer

4
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on August 16, 2011
at 04:26 PM

Save the carbs for two times, around workouts, and before you go to bed. DO NOT go to bed hungry because youll wake up more hungry and youll get about 3x the insulin you would have produced had you eaten your morning carbs right before bed. I've been carb back loading, aka eating carbs postworkout and through the night, and my body has completely adjusted to insulin. I cant seem to put on an ounce of fat, and the more carbs I eat before bed seems to make me just wake up more vascular and satisfied. I avoid carbs when I get up, fasting for an hour or two then having a light meal of turkey breast and nuts. From there I'll eat broccoli and eggs/meat, the broccoli being my first carbs. Then at about 3 or 4 I feel the need to eat some carbs and ill eat any where from 100-200 grams of carbs between 3-10pm. I basically only produce insulin for 8 or 9 hours and Im never getting the huge insulin bumps that all americans are accustomed to every morning. I do like to bump my insulin while Im lifting and after as well but this has only made my body grow on lifting days. I can say that this is the best method of eating I have ever experienced and I highly suggest you all get your insulin back in check by fasting every morning for an hour or two and eating carbs heavily in the afternoon.

1
1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on August 16, 2011
at 11:57 AM

From what I understand, the workout day carbs are to refuel muscle glycogen and the post workout carbs are to provide a heightened insulin response so that nutrients enter the muscles faster. Many nutrition gurus recommend keeping carbs lowish in general and upping them in the post workout timeframe.

I believe an optimal way of planning your meals would be to have low(er) carb on rest days with sources mainly from veggies. On workout days, only the meals in your post workout timeframe should be high(er) starch/carbs. So it makes perfect sense to have your pre-workout meals be lower in carb. I try to think of it as 30-40% of carbs pre-workout and 60-70% of fast digesting carbs post workout. You could add a true pre-workout meal of mainly fast digesting protein/carbs like some chicken and fruit if you think your performance is suffering. No more than 2 hours before working out IMO.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on August 16, 2011
at 12:18 PM

Yea I like to have at least 1.5 h without food before working out, more often its 2-2.5 hours. Usually I go for a little bit of starches (a little bag of frozen sliced veggies that includes a little potatoes) with a can of tuna and some fruit. But if I work out after work (around 5-6pm), I need to have two meals and the third meal is the big one. On those first two meals are somewhat similar in calories, the first havin a little more veggies and therefore more volumes than the actual pre-WO meal.

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