11

votes

Have You Encountered Obesity without the Aid of Fructose?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 18, 2011 at 7:14 PM

If fructose raises triglycerides:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/250/3/E325.short

and triglycerides downregulate the passage of the main satiety hormone (leptin) across the blood-brain barrier:

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/5/1253.short

and also upregulate the passage of the main hunger hormone (ghrelin) across the blood brain barrier:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019697810800291X

and since triglycerides correlate to obesity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612090/

...it seems to me that simply eating a lot of fructose while being sedentary would be enough to set the stage for most cases of obesity. So, what I'm looking for are exceptions to this. I know someone here mentioned that they had gotten obese without eating a lot of sugar, but they were taking corticosteroids if I recall, which greatly increase appetite. The tough thing about this is that fructose has completely pervaded processed food, so people could be consuming significant amounts without actually eating perceptibly "sweet" foods.

Nevertheless, I think it's safe to assume that the primary fructose delivery vessel is sweetened drinks of some sort and that it would require that kind of volume in order to actually increase triglycerides enough to make a difference. This is assuming that there is a concomitant lack of activity, since exercise decreases triglycerides:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0026049582900853

Any input is appreciated.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 08, 2013
at 11:57 PM

maybe try white rice (no fructose)?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 08, 2013
at 11:57 PM

pasta, bread and cereals made from wheat have a good amount of fructans. bread also has yeast (like beer) and contribute to elevated uric acid levels, causing weight gain. processed foods in gen have hfcs/sugar added. you're prob extremely sensitive to fructose and that was enough to give you weight gain. if you drank sodas and ate ice cream you prob coulda been much heavier.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on September 09, 2011
at 12:51 AM

My highest trig. was around 150, and at the time my total cholesterol was very low and mostly of the LDL type.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 20, 2011
at 12:42 AM

I found a breakdown on Raisin Bran simple carbs: 50% starch, 25% fructose, 25% glucose. That's more simple sugar than I expected. I don't eat them anymore....the irony is that I thought all the fiber and the vitamins and the low fat were healthy. LOL.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 19, 2011
at 09:58 PM

Its not hard....

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 19, 2011
at 02:24 PM

cliff your claims of what you eat are hilarious. 5 pounds of potatoes? 4000 calories of dates?? are you for reals? post a picture or it never happened. lol

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 19, 2011
at 04:49 AM

Correction: Cereal FLAKES.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 19, 2011
at 04:48 AM

The "flakes" can be and often are, full of HFCS. Bread eating is an excellent source of HFCS as are the majority of baked goods many, many products whihc most people would not even identify as sweet - spaghetti sauces...all kinds of salad dressings...one of the central issues is ALL the places HFCS is hiding in modern foods - even those we would not necessarily/readily identify as frankenfoods. Cereal "faleks" as in raisin brand, are manufactured.

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:48 AM

I tried stuffing dates on 811. I thought I had flu for all the vomiting >_>

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:16 AM

p.s. I'm 6' 150lbs so me weight is not affected. My only mild concern are my trigs, however with nearly that amount of date consumption for the past year or so they've stayed pretty level in the mid-high 40s

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:14 AM

holy cow! I eat about 1 pound of dates a week and I thought that was a lot! I eat a lot of other things too however

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:58 PM

Travis, the saltier way I put it (when I saw the pictures for the first time a few years ago; I'm adopted) was "I'm so f*cked!" Actually, on my father was portly, and according to records, so was his father. So yeah, a bad hand all the way around. FWIW, it's why I don't go around recommending ZC to everyone, although it's worked brilliantly for me. I really do think I'm backed into a unique corner. My family were apparently "early adopters" of the obesity fad, lol.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:57 PM

Yup, the diet was super high calorie because I was always hungry.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:51 PM

Yeah, my TC was 143 when I had it tested. I'm certain that 143 will kill someone much sooner than 210.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:50 PM

Wow Rose, that's a real epigenetic inertia going on there. Were the males fairly lean?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:49 PM

mine was around 150, but at the time, people were only considering total cholesterol and mine was amazingly low. Now as I look back, I wonder. I had almost no HDL.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:43 PM

Loon, you could be talking about my own grandparents there, who apparently got fat on bread and potatoes. I have a picture of my paternal great-grandmother, taken around 1910, that shows a person who grew quite large at a time when obesity was uncommon. And my whole maternal line stretching back three generations shows the same pattern, too, on a non-HFCS, non-MSG, non-AS, non-GM diet, one that was -- as they were relatively poor midwestern farmers -- most likely heavy on potatoes and bread.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:40 PM

I think my TGs were in the 60s on a vegan diet; how high did yours get?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:35 PM

..wanted to add that I was never inactive

Medium avatar

(287)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:14 PM

The availability of MSG in cafeteria food to college students is thought to be the main cause of the "Freshman 15". MSG would make sense.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 18, 2011
at 10:44 PM

My experience is similar: never had a sweet tooth, I never really liked soda or candy, or even juice. I did love cake and ice cream, but only if it was not very sweet. It was potatoes, bread, and cereal grains that I ate a lot of. I'm sure I can't say my diet was fructose free, but it wasn't particularly high.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:49 PM

3-4 pounds of medjool dates appears to be 400-550g of fructose alone and 3700-5000 calories.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Most of his fruit intake comes from pineapple, mangoes, nectarines and oranges. His job requires him to be on his feet all day so you could say he is active. He doesn't go to doctors much, so I have no idea how his bloodwork is.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Okay, then I shall call you "Jack!" Oh, you mean the other guy. That would be GT. ;D

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:00 PM

Yes many times.....

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:56 PM

What sort of fruit does he eat primarily and is he active?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:48 PM

"He Who Shall No Longer Be Named" .... who? I want a name.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:15 PM

Oh, yeah -- and dry skinless chicken breasts. These days I relish the skin on my greasy, fatty chicken thighs, and stick my mental tongue out at the nutritionist/inquisitor, lol.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:52 PM

But the bulk of the carbs came from the flakes and the milk Travis. I mentioned the raisins because the glucose goes straight to the bloodstream. This is a different way to do the job from drinking sports drinks and Big Gulps, which I have never consumed. The carbs don't have to be sweet to do damage.

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Gender differences seem entirely plausible. Most of the "healthy" vegans I knew (ones that followed whole foods, macrobiotic-type diets)... The men tended to be very thin with very little muscle mass and the women were all over the place, some were very thin, some were a bit chubby, and others just couldn't seem to stop gaining weight. It was very rare to meet a man with that type of diet who was also obese or very overweight.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Excellent post Katie!

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:36 PM

Wow, that's really interesting. You know, I think there may really be a significant gender difference with fat gain. Fructose might explain obesity in males a lot better than females.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:34 PM

Well, half the sucrose was fructose and raisins have a lot of fructose.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Well, half the sucrose was fructose.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Wow, that's really interesting.

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10 Answers

13
07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:29 PM

I gained something like 60 pounds over a year eating a vegan diet of (essentially) cous-cous, brown rice, homemade bread, steamed veg, lots of soy, nuts, and "healthy" oils like olive and flax. I don't think I touched much fructose besides the occasional piece of fruit. I also lost weight initially on a fruitarian diet, but then re-gained the weight and then some when I increased my calories to the recommended level of 2500-3000 for women, when I was losing weight on fruitarian I was eating around 1000 calories of apples, melon, oranges, and grapes.

Based on that experience, I don't think you need fructose to see obesity. Also, my experience losing weight with paleo is that I can eat between 50-100 carbs of lactose and fruit and see steady loss, but replace those carbs with starch from potatoes and I see steady gains. It's not so cut and dry I think.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Wow, that's really interesting.

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Gender differences seem entirely plausible. Most of the "healthy" vegans I knew (ones that followed whole foods, macrobiotic-type diets)... The men tended to be very thin with very little muscle mass and the women were all over the place, some were very thin, some were a bit chubby, and others just couldn't seem to stop gaining weight. It was very rare to meet a man with that type of diet who was also obese or very overweight.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:36 PM

Wow, that's really interesting. You know, I think there may really be a significant gender difference with fat gain. Fructose might explain obesity in males a lot better than females.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Excellent post Katie!

12
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:04 PM

I was never a fruit eater, candy eater, or soda drinker, and yet steadily grew fatter since menarche at age 13. My go-to foods were pasta, bread, and breakfast cereal, including a deep love for cream of wheat and cream of rice. Even cookies, cake and ice cream were rare treats; it was the daily starches that I craved.

And although I longed to be sedentary, I forced myself to work out at least three times a week, often quite a bit more than that. It was clear to me early on that I had to work out very hard and very long to see even a two or three pound loss, although I did build up a great set of muscles under all that blubber. Being asthmatic and clumsy didn't help, I'm sure, lol.

Before I stumbled across LC at age 38 (yes, I'd been living under a diet rock, and thought all book diets were crap -- "If any of them worked, we'd all be doing that one," is how my thinking went), I periodically would go on a 500 cal/day diet, plus workouts, that I could sustain for maybe three months at a time, at the most. Each time I started and ended at a slightly higher weight than the prior time I did it. Sigh.

The first time I LC'd (and lost around forty pounds -- I thought I'd hit the diet jackpot!), I quit after four months or so when my doctor told me Atkins was "the worst diet in the world." After ballooning up even more to 220+ pounds (and being scared to death I'd end up at 300+ like my biological mother), I hired an expensive nutritionist to "supervise" me on a 1200-cal/day diet, composed almost entirely of whole grains, green vegetables, and nonfat yogurt, on which I technically gained weight (one pound, so I supposed that should just be marked down as "failure to lose").

Bottom line: I'm pretty sure it's possible to get fat without "excess" fructose; for some of us excess starch/carbohydrate in general seems to do it. I do wonder if you're on to something with the male/female distinction -- He Who Shall No Longer Be Named noted that in traditional societies that fatten, it seems to be the women who get hit first and hardest by obesity and diabetes.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:48 PM

"He Who Shall No Longer Be Named" .... who? I want a name.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Okay, then I shall call you "Jack!" Oh, you mean the other guy. That would be GT. ;D

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 18, 2011
at 10:44 PM

My experience is similar: never had a sweet tooth, I never really liked soda or candy, or even juice. I did love cake and ice cream, but only if it was not very sweet. It was potatoes, bread, and cereal grains that I ate a lot of. I'm sure I can't say my diet was fructose free, but it wasn't particularly high.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:15 PM

Oh, yeah -- and dry skinless chicken breasts. These days I relish the skin on my greasy, fatty chicken thighs, and stick my mental tongue out at the nutritionist/inquisitor, lol.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 08, 2013
at 11:57 PM

pasta, bread and cereals made from wheat have a good amount of fructans. bread also has yeast (like beer) and contribute to elevated uric acid levels, causing weight gain. processed foods in gen have hfcs/sugar added. you're prob extremely sensitive to fructose and that was enough to give you weight gain. if you drank sodas and ate ice cream you prob coulda been much heavier.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 08, 2013
at 11:57 PM

maybe try white rice (no fructose)?

5
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:32 PM

My dad consumes pounds and pounds of fruit daily, but very little fruit juice or soda and he is very lean at the age of 50. I am still a bit weary of fructose, but it seems if it is naturally packaged with all the micronutrients and fiber it has very little negative affects.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Most of his fruit intake comes from pineapple, mangoes, nectarines and oranges. His job requires him to be on his feet all day so you could say he is active. He doesn't go to doctors much, so I have no idea how his bloodwork is.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:56 PM

What sort of fruit does he eat primarily and is he active?

5
Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:29 PM

I attribute my former obesity and D2 to overeating dry breakfast cereal. This was a mix of simple carbs from wheat starch, sucrose, lactose and glucose (raisins in raisin bran), but fructose was minimal. I was also very sedentary.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:34 PM

Well, half the sucrose was fructose and raisins have a lot of fructose.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Well, half the sucrose was fructose.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:52 PM

But the bulk of the carbs came from the flakes and the milk Travis. I mentioned the raisins because the glucose goes straight to the bloodstream. This is a different way to do the job from drinking sports drinks and Big Gulps, which I have never consumed. The carbs don't have to be sweet to do damage.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 19, 2011
at 04:48 AM

The "flakes" can be and often are, full of HFCS. Bread eating is an excellent source of HFCS as are the majority of baked goods many, many products whihc most people would not even identify as sweet - spaghetti sauces...all kinds of salad dressings...one of the central issues is ALL the places HFCS is hiding in modern foods - even those we would not necessarily/readily identify as frankenfoods. Cereal "faleks" as in raisin brand, are manufactured.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 19, 2011
at 04:49 AM

Correction: Cereal FLAKES.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 20, 2011
at 12:42 AM

I found a breakdown on Raisin Bran simple carbs: 50% starch, 25% fructose, 25% glucose. That's more simple sugar than I expected. I don't eat them anymore....the irony is that I thought all the fiber and the vitamins and the low fat were healthy. LOL.

3
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on August 18, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I definitely gained with very little fructose in the diet. I do think fructose is part of the equation for many but this is not the case for me.

3
485bcefe7f1f7a6df1a293a826bf6137

on August 18, 2011
at 10:13 PM

When I first went vegetarian I was consuming no fructose--almost exclusively McDonald's french fries every day--this was after they had switched to using vegetable oil. Gained lots of weight.

3
669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19

(452)

on August 18, 2011
at 08:45 PM

I think it's good evryone's looking at pausible causes for obesity (sugar,starch,grains etc.) Yet I feel one very important one is being left out....MSG. It is used in almost everything processed and sometimes even organic. It causes lots of neurological problems,but it's also a proven stimulant to keep on eating beyond satiety. I know it definitely has that effect on me!

Medium avatar

(287)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:14 PM

The availability of MSG in cafeteria food to college students is thought to be the main cause of the "Freshman 15". MSG would make sense.

2
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:35 PM

I got fat on a whole foods home-made vegetarian diet, but it took me a number of years to do so. I got obese when I started eating meat and fructose in my 40's. (I had read about aspartame, and also about the good things of fructose lol) During my veggie years, my triglycerides were much higher than in the later years. My mother, otoh, was well into middle age before hfcs was invented. She is old enough to remember when it was commonplace for dieters to reduce their carbs. Though she was a fat child, and sometimes heavier into middle age, she did not like sweets. I don't recall ever seeing her eat dried fruit, chocolate, soda, candy, muffins, sugary cereals, etc. She did not bake or have pastries in the house. I only remember cheesecake and what we would sneak in for ourselves. She got fat on bread and potatoes. Not very much, though. Her one weakness was if there was a bag of potato chips around, she would finish them off. But she used to have them only for entertaining, maybe 3 or 4 bags a year. If she had any sugar at all, it was in the form of salad dressings, which she craved along with other vinegar tastes. I know lots of people here don't want to hear that people can get fat with potatoes and starches, but it is very true.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:43 PM

Loon, you could be talking about my own grandparents there, who apparently got fat on bread and potatoes. I have a picture of my paternal great-grandmother, taken around 1910, that shows a person who grew quite large at a time when obesity was uncommon. And my whole maternal line stretching back three generations shows the same pattern, too, on a non-HFCS, non-MSG, non-AS, non-GM diet, one that was -- as they were relatively poor midwestern farmers -- most likely heavy on potatoes and bread.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:51 PM

Yeah, my TC was 143 when I had it tested. I'm certain that 143 will kill someone much sooner than 210.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:35 PM

..wanted to add that I was never inactive

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:40 PM

I think my TGs were in the 60s on a vegan diet; how high did yours get?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:49 PM

mine was around 150, but at the time, people were only considering total cholesterol and mine was amazingly low. Now as I look back, I wonder. I had almost no HDL.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:50 PM

Wow Rose, that's a real epigenetic inertia going on there. Were the males fairly lean?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:58 PM

Travis, the saltier way I put it (when I saw the pictures for the first time a few years ago; I'm adopted) was "I'm so f*cked!" Actually, on my father was portly, and according to records, so was his father. So yeah, a bad hand all the way around. FWIW, it's why I don't go around recommending ZC to everyone, although it's worked brilliantly for me. I really do think I'm backed into a unique corner. My family were apparently "early adopters" of the obesity fad, lol.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on September 09, 2011
at 12:51 AM

My highest trig. was around 150, and at the time my total cholesterol was very low and mostly of the LDL type.

1
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:45 PM

I ate nothing but 3-4 pounds of dates daily with some OJ for good measure(usually 1/2 gallon) for about 8 months and I lost weight down to the lowest I've ever been in my life at 140. I think it should be noted that about 1 year before this point I was ~50lbs overweight.

I think the weight gain with fructose probably has a lot to due with the fact that most people eat it in foods that literally have zero nutrition. It's also really easy to down a 32oz coke with a huge burger and fries.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 09:49 PM

3-4 pounds of medjool dates appears to be 400-550g of fructose alone and 3700-5000 calories.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:16 AM

p.s. I'm 6' 150lbs so me weight is not affected. My only mild concern are my trigs, however with nearly that amount of date consumption for the past year or so they've stayed pretty level in the mid-high 40s

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 19, 2011
at 09:58 PM

Its not hard....

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 18, 2011
at 11:57 PM

Yup, the diet was super high calorie because I was always hungry.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:14 AM

holy cow! I eat about 1 pound of dates a week and I thought that was a lot! I eat a lot of other things too however

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:48 AM

I tried stuffing dates on 811. I thought I had flu for all the vomiting >_>

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 19, 2011
at 02:24 PM

cliff your claims of what you eat are hilarious. 5 pounds of potatoes? 4000 calories of dates?? are you for reals? post a picture or it never happened. lol

1
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on August 18, 2011
at 07:59 PM

When I first transitioned to paleo, I ate a carton of strawberries every day for about a week. Stawberries are low in fructose but I surely dropped pounds of fat in those first true paleo weeks even with a moderate intake of fructose.

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