7

votes

Lack of satiety with a paleo diet?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 15, 2010 at 7:43 AM

Hello.

I'm about a week and a half into eating paleo and I'm a little conflicted; I very much enjoy no longer having the bloated stomach or lethargy that I used to get when I ate carb-laden meals... but now that I'm eating paleo (which does include veggies and a small amount of fruit) I don't really get that "ahhh... that was a good meal" feeling of satiety I used to get after eating oatmeal/brown rice/legumes/etc... so I usually end up eating way more than I should.

Is this just a part of the initial adaptation period? How long does this period last?

Thanks.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:25 PM

Janie's got a gun Her dog day's just begun Now everybody is on the run Because Janie's got a gun Janie's got a gun Her dog day's just begun Now everybody is on the run Janie's got a gun Truth.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:17 PM

Why do SAD eaters come here and spout off? I don't go to whole grain loving boards or vegan websites and tell them it's nonsense. If people ask, I'm happy to tell them what I think works in a helpful, educational way; but trolling does nothing except give the troll a kick.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:05 PM

RAW VEGAN/MALNOURISHED INDIVIDUAL ALERT!

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 07, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Do you have any valid arguments or are you simply a troll? I vote troll.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on September 24, 2010
at 11:58 AM

I'm of the same opinion of the bodies desire to stock up on nutrients being tied to some o those cravings. Personal experience was similar

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 24, 2010
at 02:38 AM

See how fire and cooking made us who we are at NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/07/30/128877628/meat-fire-and-the-evolution-of-man

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 24, 2010
at 02:24 AM

The proof isn't in the pudding, it's in the library. And the library says you're wrong.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on September 02, 2010
at 05:04 PM

That strikes me as a lot of protein! Are you doing a PSMF? (protein sparingmodified fast). Only time I got my protein really high was on Eades "6 Week Cure" (3 protein shakes a day the first 2 weeks). I was quite hungry and a little wigged out (foggy headed) on the shakes. Made me really appreciate meat (haha). I consider the Zone to be kinda high in protein and that's only 30%...

1a8020e101199de55c1b3b726f342321

(1973)

on July 13, 2010
at 10:11 PM

Yeah gilliebean is right on, try adding butter, sour cream etc.

03aeff8d87a3b53a449b5b8e9158da98

(3268)

on May 16, 2010
at 03:08 PM

Same here Melissa. I eat to satiety several times a day (no fasting for me) and I've dropped 14 lbs! Since it's starting to affect my weight training I actually have to make an effort to get in more calories.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on May 16, 2010
at 04:48 AM

Yeah, I don't get full on paleo, but I will go considerably longer before feeling hungry.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 15, 2010
at 07:42 PM

Not sure what distinction you're drawing. What is a "lipid nutrient" in this context? Dietary fat will also store as fat in the body, it would be rather disastrous if it couldn't. I wouldn't say you need protein in "extreme excess" anything over current raw protein needs will be turned into glucose which will in turn be turned into fat. Fat is what our bodies want, so they'll turn anything they can into it as soon as possible, especially since blood glucose very quickly becomes deadly.

0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on May 15, 2010
at 04:57 PM

"carbohydrates are ultimtely a form of indirect-fat" Yes it turns into BODY FAT it is not a lipid nutrient - we don't want insulin trigger fat storage from carbs. Lipids do not store as fat in the body- some protein can if in extreme excess.

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on May 15, 2010
at 01:11 PM

I agree - your body still may be also expecting a carb infusion. It'll pass - takes time though

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 15, 2010
at 12:00 PM

This is the opposite of the problem I have...

34d2229c6bee7d4d99592031b6dbdd5d

(110)

on May 15, 2010
at 07:55 AM

Well right now my macronutrient ratios are about 45% protein/10% carbs/45% fat... I do eat a lot of meat, but it's almost always chicken breast or extra lean beef so my fat then comes from butter, coconut oil and olive oil.

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16 Answers

16
08ce57b1bbb3bda8e384234389c36d94

on May 15, 2010
at 03:35 PM

I don't understand. If after eating a big juicy steak you're still hungry then my prescription is to eat two big juicy steaks.

Don't be shy. Eat!

13
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on May 15, 2010
at 08:00 AM

You need more fat. :)

If you have access to good meat sources (ie grass fed) get fattier cuts. If not, try adding heavy cream, coconut milk and nuts (only if you're not trying to lean out).

You're not going to get that "stuffed" feeling anymore. That feeling comes with carb consumption. What you are going to get is "lack of hunger" and energy, after you eat. That's what we were meant to feel.

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on May 15, 2010
at 01:11 PM

I agree - your body still may be also expecting a carb infusion. It'll pass - takes time though

1a8020e101199de55c1b3b726f342321

(1973)

on July 13, 2010
at 10:11 PM

Yeah gilliebean is right on, try adding butter, sour cream etc.

10
4e184df9c1ed38f61febc5d6cf031921

(5005)

on May 15, 2010
at 07:46 AM

I am only six months into eating paleo so no expert - but I found that eating lots of meat and particularly fatty meat, I felt sufficiently "full" and that it took longer before feeling hungry / in need of food again. Perhaps you need more fat?

34d2229c6bee7d4d99592031b6dbdd5d

(110)

on May 15, 2010
at 07:55 AM

Well right now my macronutrient ratios are about 45% protein/10% carbs/45% fat... I do eat a lot of meat, but it's almost always chicken breast or extra lean beef so my fat then comes from butter, coconut oil and olive oil.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on May 16, 2010
at 04:48 AM

Yeah, I don't get full on paleo, but I will go considerably longer before feeling hungry.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on September 02, 2010
at 05:04 PM

That strikes me as a lot of protein! Are you doing a PSMF? (protein sparingmodified fast). Only time I got my protein really high was on Eades "6 Week Cure" (3 protein shakes a day the first 2 weeks). I was quite hungry and a little wigged out (foggy headed) on the shakes. Made me really appreciate meat (haha). I consider the Zone to be kinda high in protein and that's only 30%...

5
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 15, 2010
at 09:31 AM

Is the ratio 45% protein/10% carbs/45% fat calculated or just an estimation. If that's what you're really eating then it's clearly far too much protein. Sating as protein is, once you start eating more than your body actually needs, all you're going to be doing is very inefficiently living off the glucose that your body makes out of the protein. Assuming you're an average man eating 2500 calories a day, 45% protein works out at over 280g of protein a day

Also, a lot of the benefits of increased satiety will come from a) reducing insulin b) becoming fat adapted. If you're eating almost half your calories from lean protein then neither of these will happen (unless you're eating a very hypocaloric diet, in which case you should be getting most of your calories from bodyfat anyway).

Saying that "I don't really get that "ahhh... that was a good meal" feeling of satiety I used to get after eating oatmeal/brown rice/legumes/etc" does make me suspect that the feeling you're describing is really the unhealthy feeling of being stuffed with carbohydrate and thus having a huge rush of blood sugar and insulin (two of the main things you want to avoid!). I find that fasting, even for about 16 hours or so, can be really useful for reminding me what hunger and satiety actually feel like, so that might be worth a try. I find that once you're fat-adapted then you rarely feel extremely full but never hungry either- probably quite appropriate if evolutionarily you would always want to fill up on a kill, possibly to excess, if it was there, but not want to be distracted by food otherwise. It's also worth noting that fat and protein are digested much more slowly, so whereas some oatmeal will hit your blood in a matter of minutes, fat will take hours. I have noticed though, that in this not-hungry-not-full state, I do feel like I could eat nigh limitless abouts of fat though, so if you really want to feel classically 'sated' then why don't you just eat more (though still limited) paleo carbs, in addition to a paleo high-fat moderate protein diet. I'd recommend going for vegetables or something starchy, rather than lots of fruit though, since it's possible that fructose is uniquely appetite inducing.

N.B. It might be worth bearing in mind that carbohydrates are ultimtely a form of indirect-fat, they're going to be turned into fat in any case. It might not be surprising therefore, if you're only eating 45% fat, that your body is craving the means to actually produce fat.

0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on May 15, 2010
at 04:57 PM

"carbohydrates are ultimtely a form of indirect-fat" Yes it turns into BODY FAT it is not a lipid nutrient - we don't want insulin trigger fat storage from carbs. Lipids do not store as fat in the body- some protein can if in extreme excess.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 15, 2010
at 07:42 PM

Not sure what distinction you're drawing. What is a "lipid nutrient" in this context? Dietary fat will also store as fat in the body, it would be rather disastrous if it couldn't. I wouldn't say you need protein in "extreme excess" anything over current raw protein needs will be turned into glucose which will in turn be turned into fat. Fat is what our bodies want, so they'll turn anything they can into it as soon as possible, especially since blood glucose very quickly becomes deadly.

3
C1fb8666b1ae085507a76a4c494e4f0a

on July 07, 2010
at 08:15 PM

I felt that way when I first started as well. Then I eventually realized that the feeling I had associated with being pleasantly full and sated was, in fact, bloating and gluten reactions in my gut! I'd had them for my whole life, so to me it was normal.

It just takes a little while to get used to your new normal.

2
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on September 24, 2010
at 04:45 AM

I was often hungry at first on paleo. Grain foods actually allowed me to go a long time between meals. I would eat a giant big fat meal of grain foods, and then go a long time before the next one. When I first went paleo, I ate less at each meal but was soon hungry again. But this didn't last. After a few months, I could go just as long if not longer between meals without hungry, while still eating the smaller meals. It just took a while to develop. Plus now I can not only go a long time between meals, but I feel better between meals, less tired. I think for some, the often touted benefits of paleo are not always immediate. It takes the body a while to adapt. I think also, perhaps the body may want to stock up on all the nutrients it was missing before it decides it is 'satiated.' If a person has been eating SAD, the body may go bananas at first when it finally gets to obtain more healthy food.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on September 24, 2010
at 11:58 AM

I'm of the same opinion of the bodies desire to stock up on nutrients being tied to some o those cravings. Personal experience was similar

2
95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on July 13, 2010
at 06:08 PM

Once upon a time, back in the SAD days of yore, I'd eat a big steak, a big pile of french fries, and a small salad, and that would fill me up. When I first started the paleo thing, I'd eat the same big steak, the same small salad, nothing else... and wonder why I was still hungry.

Now, steak, bigger salad, and maybe a grilled sausage or something if I'm still hungry. The moral of the story: If you're removing stuff from your usual meals, adjust other portion sizes accordingly. Sounds obvious, but I can't be the only one who didn't manage to figure this out right away.

1
5cc9908801b79ff820bbc1eb7ac01b8f

on September 24, 2010
at 12:44 PM

I'm having the same problem. What seems to work is adding more fat like the others say. e.g. I had my usual bacon and eggs which makes me feel physically full, but not feel "aahhh" full. Then I added an avocado to the meal. Now I still don't really get the "aahh" feeling, but I noticed that the lack of it bothered me less than usual.

1
Eedf46c82d0356d1d46dda5f9782ef36

(4464)

on May 15, 2010
at 05:19 PM

The first couple weeks for me were the same. I ate and ate and ate. Looking back, I believe my body was looking for the easy energy of the sugars and carbs since they were suddenly missing.

After that, I noticed that my biggest issue was that I would feel like eating something, but not actually be hungry. It took me a while to re-learn the difference between being hungry and just being not-full, or just wanting to eat because it was "lunch time" (and I do love food, so eating is fun).

I think it's important to listen to your body during the transition. If you're hungry - eat, just eat good stuff. Before you eat though, stop and ask yourself if you're actually hungry or if you might be wanting to eat out of habit due to time of day, etc.

It's been 4 months for me, and I can now easily go 24 hours without eating after a nice, big, meaty, fatty meal.

1
0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on May 15, 2010
at 04:53 PM

Paleo style eating needs FAT- done think its better to go low fat- IT AIN"T. Your body because it doesn't eat all the crap carb foods- foods that didn't exist 40 yrs ago- will tell you when it is nourished. Eat up the fats and proteins. Any induction period will be 2- 8 weeks so the body can rids itself of the sick carb carving. All carvings a born from wanting more carbs to trigger insulin.

1
8347d512bca9b034d53da40dab8cd21c

on May 15, 2010
at 12:31 PM

I don't strive to get that feeling, but I can't begin to count how many times I've had a bowl of chicken pho (double vegetables, double chicken, no noodles) and ended up feeling that way.

GLORIOUS.

0
42b55093826add9f94e77d07a4f5b4e2

on March 02, 2012
at 06:48 AM

Just started the paleo diet and yes, I am missing that ahhh...that was a good meal (perfect description) and it bothers me. I have been doing lots of fruit and veggies and maybe a can of tuna for protein. So, it sounds like more fat is in order, steak and avocados are fine by me. However, for the people advising butter, cream, sour cream I am confused. I thought there was no dairy allowed since stone age man did not milk cows.

0
49e8095b3c7054921ac4a67a90e9ab85

on September 24, 2010
at 02:22 AM

Are you eating your meat raw? If you are eating cooked meat much of protein stucture is altered,it becomes toxic and you will not get the full nutritional benefits, it will not be digested properly. same goes for any cooked food. Also look into proper food combining (Hay diet) I eat a small piece of raw meat for lunch and i am full for 3-4 hours and full of energy. If i eat a cooked steak I am as hungry after I ate it as I was before. The proof is in the pudding. raw food + food combining = excellent health

anonymous

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 24, 2010
at 02:24 AM

The proof isn't in the pudding, it's in the library. And the library says you're wrong.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 24, 2010
at 02:38 AM

See how fire and cooking made us who we are at NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/07/30/128877628/meat-fire-and-the-evolution-of-man

0
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on September 01, 2010
at 11:53 PM

I agree, the feeling stuffed isn't part of Paleo, the satiety feels different. It took me a few weeks to get used to it. And it took those weeks to work out the amount of protein, fat, and carbs that work well for me.

I find that eating too much protein makes me feel hungry sooner. And, of course, we all have foods that trigger an appetite. For some, even the smell or thought of something stimulates an insulin response, which triggers hunger.

I had to lower my protein and up the fat to feel sated. I use Dr. Kwasniewski's ratios.

Peter Dobromylskyj at Hyperlipid explains a good bit about Dr. Kwaniewski's diet and the purpose of the ratios:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

Also, what I eat when plays a great role in feeling satisfied. I currently find eating beef and high fat dairy for breakfast has more staying power than bacon and eggs, or eggs alone.

I follow Dr. Richard Bernsteins' recommendation for what kind of carbs to eat, those which don't raise blood sugar very much. I find it a very calm, steady way of eating.

0
5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

on May 16, 2010
at 04:45 AM

There are definitely a few distinctions to be made in how one feels at the end of the meal: a) still hungry, b) satiated, c) full, d) stuffed.

Yeah, on paleo, eating to stuffed won't happen. I don't think full will either, unless you are getting some moderate amount of starch on the side. Eating to satiated is most frequent, and probably a different feeling for many people. Also without the usual wheat and sugar as the backbone of the meal, you do have to eat more than you are used to. A hamburger without the bun means you're going to need at least twice the burger. So that's different as well.

Now, as to your original question about a lack of satiety, I presume that fits my a) still hungry description? For myself, I can often have a similar feeling. I've figured out it actually happens anytime I eat skipping any one of the macro-nutrients. It doesn't matter which one, if I skip or nearly skip, one of them I'll feel hungry no matter how much I eat. What works for me if I am still hungry and had virtually no carb in the meal is to go for something small and sweet. Usually a cup of milk works, but failing that, a piece of dark chocolate or a couple small cookies.

It's not perfect paleo, but that's not my goal. My goal is simultaneously maximizing healthy and happy.

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 07, 2012
at 08:42 PM

The Paleolithic Diet is nothing more than nonsense.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:17 PM

Why do SAD eaters come here and spout off? I don't go to whole grain loving boards or vegan websites and tell them it's nonsense. If people ask, I'm happy to tell them what I think works in a helpful, educational way; but trolling does nothing except give the troll a kick.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 07, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Do you have any valid arguments or are you simply a troll? I vote troll.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:25 PM

Janie's got a gun Her dog day's just begun Now everybody is on the run Because Janie's got a gun Janie's got a gun Her dog day's just begun Now everybody is on the run Janie's got a gun Truth.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 07, 2012
at 09:05 PM

RAW VEGAN/MALNOURISHED INDIVIDUAL ALERT!

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