2

votes

Is it important to eat fruit on its own?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 15, 2012 at 5:01 PM

Thoughts? Science? Hypotheses? I'd love to know...

Daf56fdc7582cca0f7f3b2ad6a5be798

(114)

on June 17, 2012
at 04:22 AM

Yeah, I suppose I don't actually know what is going on with the insulin itself - just that my blood glucose levels don't spike as high as when I eat fruit alone.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 07:44 PM

The burnedoutness I suspect was hitting the wall from glycogen depletion: Not enough calories, carbs, or both. FLESH ahahahah, no bias there then :-) Or maybe they were distinguishing "flesh" from other animal foods like liver, sweetbreads, brains, heart, kidney and marrow.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 16, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Yeah, studies like demonstrate plausible mechanisms but I'm not sure we can say how applicable they are to this dscussion yet. One interesting take on this is from Lucas Tafur (http://www.lucastafur.com/2012/01/safe-starches-blood-glucose-and-insulin.html). His post isn't directly about this topic, but he covers some interesting points. In the summary he says "Both energy substrates (glucose and fatty acids) support their own oxidation and inhibit the metabolism of the other".

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:54 PM

Most people don't seem to have this problem though, so I don't think it's necessary for everyone to follow a sequential eating pattern

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Ewwwww I wanted to add... KIDS YEAH!!! THEY DO SEQUENTIAL!!!!! One thing at a time, VERY interesting!

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:01 PM

Thanks Warren, that's really interesting. So... fruit starter does the job. Great! I think I will experiment later on with some really simple meal combos... not a great fan of starch so in the main, these could be fruit on its own, or a meat/fish/egg w/ non-starchy veg combo. I reckon these two meal types cover all the bases. My feel is that sugar/carbs are better away from fat and protein. Need to research!!

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 16, 2012
at 04:49 PM

That explains the indigestion I got from eating blackberries, roasted chicken, and baby lettuces. That's a bummer, but makes total sense!

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Hi Lapin, thanks for the clarity about Klebsiella, good to know. The insulin thing is interesting, but there are differing opinions there too. Doug Graham of 80/10/10 said that eating fat and sugar together prevents insulin doing its job and if I remember correctly, therefore leads to insulin resistance. I wonder about this as I came across some studies that seem to suggest this but I don't have the biochem knowledge to interpret what they mean. e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12784183 It makes no sense from a nature angle that our bodies would need fruit to have fat to be healthy.

Daf56fdc7582cca0f7f3b2ad6a5be798

(114)

on June 16, 2012
at 01:58 AM

Mike - I haven't researched the science behind food combining, but I eat low starch for AS but have no issue with eating fruit and other foods together. I actually try to have some fat with fruit to dull the insulin response and catch up any fat soluble vitamins present. The Klebsiella bacteria live mainly in the small intestine and the beginning of the large, not the stomach - so it's not going to be eating up any fruit mush while it sits there.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:31 PM

I'll add that milk is an example of carbs occurring together with fat and protein in nature. Perhaps not the best example, but worth mentioning.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:24 PM

Hey Mike, that's interesting. I worked on a farm for a few years with a guy who had Ankylosing Spondylitis with degenerative disc disease. It's a fascinating disease. I'm going to look into the link you sent. But yeah, you raise some complicated questions which I'm not sure I have solid answers to. I think the mixing carbs and fat debate is an interesting one that isn't exactly settled.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:16 PM

I did the Fit for Life for a while. As much fruit as you wanted until noon, then either meat and veggies OR carbs and veggies. I burned out quickly. I don't recall being discouraged from eating meat, but I do remember that every time meat was discussed, it was called "flesh."

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:13 PM

I think Chuck was being sarcastic, Mike.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 10:30 PM

Hi Mscott. Ive just been reading how Ankylosing Spondylitis sufferers have bacteria in their stomachs that feed on starch... http://www.windowonwoking.org.uk/sites/nass/Starch_Free_Diet I'm not sure fermentation is the issue but if the body would normally get fruit out of the stomach in 30 minutes, who knows what detrimental effects are occurring if "fruit mush" is in the stomach for hours? Also, I am concerned about the general mix of carbs with protein and fat. These things do not occur together in nature!! Only rarely in the case of some fatty fruits like durian.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on June 15, 2012
at 10:07 PM

Well that's compelling.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 08:32 PM

"From a paleo perspective, you can imagine your ancestors finding a pig under an apple tree right? If both were available at the same time, they'd eat both at the same time. Why not?" Because they were hunting and gathering and so... meat (apart from the liver and maybe a bit of marrow) was taken back to camp for cooking... same for dug up tubers, etc. But fruit does not need cooking so could have been eaten there and then to keep energy up. Pig under an apple tree... nah... monkey in the boabab... maybe :-)

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 08:17 PM

From a paleo perspective, you can imagine your ancestors finding a pig under an apple tree right? If both were available at the same time, they'd eat both at the same time. Why not?" Because they were hunting and gathering and so... meat (apart from the liver and maybe a bit of marrow) was taken back to camp for cooking... same for dug up tubers, etc. But fruit does not need cooking so could have been eaten there and then to keep energy up. Pig under an apple tree... nah... monkey is the boabab... maybe :-)

77fcbf8bece61c60e3ff430d4bb5de66

(383)

on June 15, 2012
at 07:27 PM

I think its because fruit is a super food and to reap all the benefits, and to better absorb all the nutrients, it should be eaten on an empty stomach, and alone, and leave a gap of an hour before you eat again, fruit eaten alone on an empty stomach is digested within an hour, i follow the warrior diet, i eat fruit for breakfast (on an empty stomach) and do not eat again for about 2 hours, i find this really easy and i feel great, try it you wont regret it, if u eat other foods with fruit it interfers with digestion, good luck with it Mike

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:44 PM

Hiya! I think it would be easy enough to action... fruit only breakfast/snacks/meal starter possibly. You say it's right, but WHY?

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:34 PM

Stuff/reasons I have found so far... 1. When the glycogen stores of the liver are full, excess fructose is converted to triglycerides? Would that be a reason to eat your fruits BEFORE your other carbs during a meal. 2. Fruit naturally takes 30 minutes to exit the stomach completely, if eaten with other foods, it's held back. 3. Fructose reacts with omega 6? to create toxins. 4. GAPS says fruit is digested differently but doesn't sat why.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:33 PM

Hi Lynn, yes there's lots of places where the advice is to eat fruit alone but WHY is not addressed. The melon thing sounds like the Hay Diet/food combining thing. Again I don't recall any REASONS given.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Thanks Irene I will check that out.

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6 Answers

6
97a48b548690c0e6ccfd90c93527c5fc

on June 15, 2012
at 06:32 PM

This is right. If you are trying to add one more thing to think about in your day to day eating patterns, fruit should always be eaten on an empty stomach, alone, and not mixed with other fruits. If you are to this level of eating you are probably going to live to be 1000.

77fcbf8bece61c60e3ff430d4bb5de66

(383)

on June 15, 2012
at 07:27 PM

I think its because fruit is a super food and to reap all the benefits, and to better absorb all the nutrients, it should be eaten on an empty stomach, and alone, and leave a gap of an hour before you eat again, fruit eaten alone on an empty stomach is digested within an hour, i follow the warrior diet, i eat fruit for breakfast (on an empty stomach) and do not eat again for about 2 hours, i find this really easy and i feel great, try it you wont regret it, if u eat other foods with fruit it interfers with digestion, good luck with it Mike

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:13 PM

I think Chuck was being sarcastic, Mike.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:44 PM

Hiya! I think it would be easy enough to action... fruit only breakfast/snacks/meal starter possibly. You say it's right, but WHY?

2
E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:17 PM

I had a naturopath tell me to always eat melon alone, as it monopolizes digestive enzymes

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:33 PM

Hi Lynn, yes there's lots of places where the advice is to eat fruit alone but WHY is not addressed. The melon thing sounds like the Hay Diet/food combining thing. Again I don't recall any REASONS given.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:34 PM

Stuff/reasons I have found so far... 1. When the glycogen stores of the liver are full, excess fructose is converted to triglycerides? Would that be a reason to eat your fruits BEFORE your other carbs during a meal. 2. Fruit naturally takes 30 minutes to exit the stomach completely, if eaten with other foods, it's held back. 3. Fructose reacts with omega 6? to create toxins. 4. GAPS says fruit is digested differently but doesn't sat why.

2
77fcbf8bece61c60e3ff430d4bb5de66

(383)

on June 15, 2012
at 05:49 PM

Ori, the author of the warrior diet states you should always eat fruit on its own, and preferably on an empty stomach, not sure exactly why, but he states it is best eaten on its own

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on June 15, 2012
at 10:07 PM

Well that's compelling.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Thanks Irene I will check that out.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 16, 2012
at 02:35 PM

I used to get a little bit of indigestion every evening after my dinner.

I read an article by Dr Stanley Bass where he talked sequential eating. He mentioned fruit fermenting in the stomach when it is on top of foods like meat or fish. He suggested that if you are going to eat fruit, that it should be before the meat or fish, rather than after. I started to eat fruit before my meat and fish meals and had no problems with indigestion. After a few weeks I switched back to fruit after the meat or fish and had indigestion very shortly after finishing the fruit.
http://drbass.com/sequential.html

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:54 PM

Most people don't seem to have this problem though, so I don't think it's necessary for everyone to follow a sequential eating pattern

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 16, 2012
at 04:49 PM

That explains the indigestion I got from eating blackberries, roasted chicken, and baby lettuces. That's a bummer, but makes total sense!

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Ewwwww I wanted to add... KIDS YEAH!!! THEY DO SEQUENTIAL!!!!! One thing at a time, VERY interesting!

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 05:01 PM

Thanks Warren, that's really interesting. So... fruit starter does the job. Great! I think I will experiment later on with some really simple meal combos... not a great fan of starch so in the main, these could be fruit on its own, or a meat/fish/egg w/ non-starchy veg combo. I reckon these two meal types cover all the bases. My feel is that sugar/carbs are better away from fat and protein. Need to research!!

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on June 15, 2012
at 08:01 PM

You'll see a lot of people say this. The idea has been around for a while. There was a diet program- I think it was called Fit for Life- that suggested eating fruit for breakfast by itself. Part of the idea was a vegetarian one, that meat wasn't really good for you and that it took a really long time for the body to break it down. So, if you ate fruit with meat, all sorts of terrible things would happen, like having stuff rot in your digestive system.

Well, nothing ever came of this. It is just repackaged vegetarian propaganda. From a paleo perspective, you can imagine your ancestors finding a pig under an apple tree right? If both were available at the same time, they'd eat both at the same time. Why not?

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 08:32 PM

"From a paleo perspective, you can imagine your ancestors finding a pig under an apple tree right? If both were available at the same time, they'd eat both at the same time. Why not?" Because they were hunting and gathering and so... meat (apart from the liver and maybe a bit of marrow) was taken back to camp for cooking... same for dug up tubers, etc. But fruit does not need cooking so could have been eaten there and then to keep energy up. Pig under an apple tree... nah... monkey in the boabab... maybe :-)

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:16 PM

I did the Fit for Life for a while. As much fruit as you wanted until noon, then either meat and veggies OR carbs and veggies. I burned out quickly. I don't recall being discouraged from eating meat, but I do remember that every time meat was discussed, it was called "flesh."

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 07:44 PM

The burnedoutness I suspect was hitting the wall from glycogen depletion: Not enough calories, carbs, or both. FLESH ahahahah, no bias there then :-) Or maybe they were distinguishing "flesh" from other animal foods like liver, sweetbreads, brains, heart, kidney and marrow.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 08:17 PM

From a paleo perspective, you can imagine your ancestors finding a pig under an apple tree right? If both were available at the same time, they'd eat both at the same time. Why not?" Because they were hunting and gathering and so... meat (apart from the liver and maybe a bit of marrow) was taken back to camp for cooking... same for dug up tubers, etc. But fruit does not need cooking so could have been eaten there and then to keep energy up. Pig under an apple tree... nah... monkey is the boabab... maybe :-)

0
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 15, 2012
at 09:58 PM

To my understanding, what's commonly cited as the logic behind this claim is this; fruits are digested relatively quickly relative to other foods. When fruit is consumed with other foods it is thus said that this leads to the fruit staying in the stomach too long, causing it to rot or ferment, resulting in digestive upset.

This theory doesn't make sense to me. Fermentation of food in the stomach is unlikely to happen because the stomach should have very little bacteria. Eating fruit with meat may cause the fruit to move more slowly through the digestive system, but this should result in no ill effect; once the fruit enters the small intestines digestion should occur unimpeded.

There may be other reasons to avoid mixing fruit with other foods, but this is the main one I know of. Personally, I do fine mixing fruit and most other foods and I certainly don't have an iron stomach (tinfoil stomach might be accurate).

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:31 PM

I'll add that milk is an example of carbs occurring together with fat and protein in nature. Perhaps not the best example, but worth mentioning.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 16, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Yeah, studies like demonstrate plausible mechanisms but I'm not sure we can say how applicable they are to this dscussion yet. One interesting take on this is from Lucas Tafur (http://www.lucastafur.com/2012/01/safe-starches-blood-glucose-and-insulin.html). His post isn't directly about this topic, but he covers some interesting points. In the summary he says "Both energy substrates (glucose and fatty acids) support their own oxidation and inhibit the metabolism of the other".

Daf56fdc7582cca0f7f3b2ad6a5be798

(114)

on June 17, 2012
at 04:22 AM

Yeah, I suppose I don't actually know what is going on with the insulin itself - just that my blood glucose levels don't spike as high as when I eat fruit alone.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 15, 2012
at 11:24 PM

Hey Mike, that's interesting. I worked on a farm for a few years with a guy who had Ankylosing Spondylitis with degenerative disc disease. It's a fascinating disease. I'm going to look into the link you sent. But yeah, you raise some complicated questions which I'm not sure I have solid answers to. I think the mixing carbs and fat debate is an interesting one that isn't exactly settled.

Daf56fdc7582cca0f7f3b2ad6a5be798

(114)

on June 16, 2012
at 01:58 AM

Mike - I haven't researched the science behind food combining, but I eat low starch for AS but have no issue with eating fruit and other foods together. I actually try to have some fat with fruit to dull the insulin response and catch up any fat soluble vitamins present. The Klebsiella bacteria live mainly in the small intestine and the beginning of the large, not the stomach - so it's not going to be eating up any fruit mush while it sits there.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 15, 2012
at 10:30 PM

Hi Mscott. Ive just been reading how Ankylosing Spondylitis sufferers have bacteria in their stomachs that feed on starch... http://www.windowonwoking.org.uk/sites/nass/Starch_Free_Diet I'm not sure fermentation is the issue but if the body would normally get fruit out of the stomach in 30 minutes, who knows what detrimental effects are occurring if "fruit mush" is in the stomach for hours? Also, I am concerned about the general mix of carbs with protein and fat. These things do not occur together in nature!! Only rarely in the case of some fatty fruits like durian.

C3f9730405f7885f9ccaad364404c433

(412)

on June 16, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Hi Lapin, thanks for the clarity about Klebsiella, good to know. The insulin thing is interesting, but there are differing opinions there too. Doug Graham of 80/10/10 said that eating fat and sugar together prevents insulin doing its job and if I remember correctly, therefore leads to insulin resistance. I wonder about this as I came across some studies that seem to suggest this but I don't have the biochem knowledge to interpret what they mean. e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12784183 It makes no sense from a nature angle that our bodies would need fruit to have fat to be healthy.

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