2

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Acid Base balance and Ketogenid Diet

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 03, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Hello,

I started too thinker whith my diet, and leaning towards more fat, less carbs. I was on a carb cycling scheme to gain muscle mass, going 150gr of carbs on post workout and 50gr non workout.

Since i'm only engaged in powelifting, some walking and one or two Tabata's a week i decided to try 65-70% fat, 15-20% Protein and 10% Carbs, these coming from veggies and soups. On workout days i'm at 3000-3200kcals(180 pounds, 5,9, 12-13%BF) and on rest days between 2200-2600kcals, aiming for strenght gains and slowly body-recomposition.

Howver, i'm a little concerned with my acid base balance, since i eat no less than 500gr-750 of meat/fish a day, plus 4-6 eggs, and almost 100gr of grass fed butter and 100gr coconut oil, intermediated with one or two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil and/or grass fed homemade lard.

I gladly consume a wide array of vegetables within the 10% carb threshold: cabbage, cucumber, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, bok-choi, some kelp seaweed and incorporate various spices in cooking: turmeric, garlic powder and gloves(2-6 a day), basil, thyme, oregano, cilantro, pepper(misture of various), parsley, paprika, cinnamon. etc.

Should i be concerneed over my acid base? Could you recomend ways to alkalize my diet, or some concentrate supplements(spirulina or so) to help counteracting the almost 800gr of acid foods a day?

EDIT: What do you guys think about supplements as this one or similar? Supplements wise, i take only Magnesium and Vitamin D3(reducing dose as Summer aproach), and 10gr BCAA pre-workout(fasted).

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Scottts-Yeah, that's pretty much why I don't think a high acid diet will cause diabetes and cancer. Just some bone loss as a compensatory mechanism, unless your acid food is meat, which seems able counteract this.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Its not really possible for you to change your bodies blood PH by diet. Your blood PH needs to be between 7.35 and 7.45. If you're blood PH were to get out of this range by any substantial amount you would die. The body uses buffering systems to keep the blood PH within this tight range and eating too many acid-FORMING or alkaline-FORMING foods can over-tax these buffering systems over the long haul. This seems to explain it well : http://drbenkim.com/ph-body-blood-foods-acid-alkaline.htm

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 04, 2012
at 09:20 PM

That's because I don't buy that argument, honestly.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:31 PM

You could also drink alkaline water (i.e., mineral water) or just dissolve a 0.5 tbsp of baking soda and drink before going to sleep.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:30 PM

You're focusing on bone health here as an effect of a high acid diet. But the other argument is that a meat-heavy diet not balanced by veggies makes the body acidic, and the acidic state incubates chronic diseases like T2 diabetes and cancer. That's the other argument: pancreatic beta cells lose functionality when your body loses acid-base balance.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:11 PM

Yes, expulsion of carbon dioxide from the blood raises blood PH. Hyperventilating can lead to repiratory alkolosis. Of course this is different than stomach PH. I'm not sure if or how the two would be related.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 04, 2012
at 07:20 AM

Regarding the quantities of vegetables, no less than 300gr a day(weighted RAW), i also eat avocados and some herbal teas. But yeah, this acid base conundrum is getting weaker the more search i see. Thank you so much for the insight

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 04, 2012
at 07:18 AM

Thank you for the input. Aside from the multiple buffering processes, breating is another mechanism for the excretion of acidity, right?

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3 Answers

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A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 03, 2012
at 10:49 PM

The evidence I'm aware of seems to show that acid forming diets cause calcium to be leached from the bone to balance pH levels. I also think the evidence shows meat and animal products are considered acidic because of their protein.

In this study, increasing protein from low to moderate levels improved bone health.

In another study, in which protein intake was increased significantly, the authors stated "We conclude that increasing protein intake from 0.78 to 1.55 g/kg??d with meat supplements in combination with reducing carbohydrate intake did not alter urine calcium excretion". This and other studies discuss the importance of protein on bone health and mechanisms by which protein does not cause net calcium loss from the bone.

Here's a study titled "Controlled High Meat Diets Do Not Affect Calcium Retention or Indices of Bone Status in Healthy Postmenopausal Women". The title says it all.

In this study the authors stated "Under practical dietary conditions, increased dietary protein from animal sources was not detrimental to calcium balance or short-term indicators of bone health".

In this study in which protein intake was increased from 1 to 2.1 g/kg, the authors wrote "These data directly demonstrate that, at least in the short term, high-protein diets are not detrimental to bone".

This study, in which women increased protein intake from 61 to 118 grams a day, provides more evidence that "a high-protein diet has no adverse effects on bone health".

So you're eating what, 150-200 grams of protein a day? I doubt that will negatively affect bone health. I think a good amount of potassium rich fruits/vegetables will be the biggest factor you should consider when thinking about your alkalizing your diet. You didn't specify how much of those vegetable you're eating, but if you're eating a decent amount, I think you'll be fine. I wouldn't worry about eating too much acid forming animal food.

Also, I would absolutely not take that supplement you linked to. It's worthless. And it has castor oil in it, which is a nasty laxative. I would stay away from supplements like that. The ones you're taking now seem fine.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 04, 2012
at 09:20 PM

That's because I don't buy that argument, honestly.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 04, 2012
at 07:20 AM

Regarding the quantities of vegetables, no less than 300gr a day(weighted RAW), i also eat avocados and some herbal teas. But yeah, this acid base conundrum is getting weaker the more search i see. Thank you so much for the insight

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:30 PM

You're focusing on bone health here as an effect of a high acid diet. But the other argument is that a meat-heavy diet not balanced by veggies makes the body acidic, and the acidic state incubates chronic diseases like T2 diabetes and cancer. That's the other argument: pancreatic beta cells lose functionality when your body loses acid-base balance.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Scottts-Yeah, that's pretty much why I don't think a high acid diet will cause diabetes and cancer. Just some bone loss as a compensatory mechanism, unless your acid food is meat, which seems able counteract this.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Its not really possible for you to change your bodies blood PH by diet. Your blood PH needs to be between 7.35 and 7.45. If you're blood PH were to get out of this range by any substantial amount you would die. The body uses buffering systems to keep the blood PH within this tight range and eating too many acid-FORMING or alkaline-FORMING foods can over-tax these buffering systems over the long haul. This seems to explain it well : http://drbenkim.com/ph-body-blood-foods-acid-alkaline.htm

1
7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 04, 2012
at 05:18 AM

Honestly I've never understood the issue with acid/base balance in food. I can't see how it's not complete hogwash. Your stomach acid is normally about 2.5 ph. Stomach acid is neutralized before entry into the intestines by your body by bicarbonate.

NOTHING we eat has a lower PH than 2.5, so no matter what you eat you're helping to neutralize generated stomach acid. Further PH is a logarithmic scale AND your stomach is also full of other buffering agents to prevent PH from moving too much anyway so I don't think you can even eat enough to move it much closer to neutral than maybe a PH of 3.5 or so.

I don't see how what you eat can have much impact.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:11 PM

Yes, expulsion of carbon dioxide from the blood raises blood PH. Hyperventilating can lead to repiratory alkolosis. Of course this is different than stomach PH. I'm not sure if or how the two would be related.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 04, 2012
at 07:18 AM

Thank you for the input. Aside from the multiple buffering processes, breating is another mechanism for the excretion of acidity, right?

0
Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on June 03, 2012
at 07:44 PM

Drink some lime juice? This page says it provides a net alkaline load:

http://nick.zadrozny.com/post/318559399/the-norcal-margarita

If you squeeze a whole lime into a glass and then fill the rest with soda water, it tastes pretty good. Virgin norcal margarita, I guess. You can make your own soda water if you don't want the additives, or you could do it with regular water.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on June 04, 2012
at 02:31 PM

You could also drink alkaline water (i.e., mineral water) or just dissolve a 0.5 tbsp of baking soda and drink before going to sleep.

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