7

votes

Food Reward -vs- Paleo Gourmet?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 23, 2012 at 5:16 AM

Your routine has been tracked for months and calories needed is known for each day of the week.
A world class chef is going to cook your paleo meals for one year. You have two choices:

1) Food Reward http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/10/case-for-food-reward-hypothesis-of.html
2) Paleo Gourmet (paleo food however prepared as in the finest restaurants)

In both cases the ingredients are top notch and the calories are the same. Either way all food is Paleo and adapted to your paleo style (for example, strict paleo, paleo + dairy, PHD, you name it this person can cook it.)

What is your choice and why?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 24, 2012
at 08:37 AM

From what I understand high food reward usually = fat + carb; this triggers some "feed me more more more" in your brain. I think this is why you can eat tons of french fries & not feel satiated but very few just plain (unbuttered) potatoes and you don't feel like eating more. Plain yogurt/sugared yogurt, apples/apple pie, that kind of thing. Pizza is also a fat/carb bomb.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on March 24, 2012
at 04:44 AM

I want some - it looks delicious!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Looks awesome!!!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 08:45 PM

Very Nice! You can choose the level as well. :-)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:12 PM

Hey, Lady A, I understand the fixation perfectly!!!!!!!!! Yes, let's continue the torture, but make it sound all university-like and academic 'n' stuff.....

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:10 PM

why put on pants when you can strut around in a mortar board and your cool school colors?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:09 PM

+1 for pointing out that dreaded consensus. The only thing worse is when we get a lecture how much we don't understand..

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:46 PM

For sure Dave! :-)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Are you pitching a new TV show?

4a7929c2aa05bf11349d9e55cb542d47

(646)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:02 PM

I enjoy dining at restaurants that serve dishes like those mentioned here, and in my experience, satiety is always triggered. Even though portions are very small, I am always full. I think many people, including people in this thread, confuse palatability with reward. Junk food is high reward. *Crappy* restaurant foods (think: Applebees) are high reward. Home cooked whole foods are low reward. Everything else, such as from-scratch prepared foods in a restaurant that are close to the Paleo ideals, falls in the middle and is certainly okay in moderation.

4a7929c2aa05bf11349d9e55cb542d47

(646)

on March 23, 2012
at 04:59 PM

I enjoy dining at restaurants that serve dishes like those mentioned here, and in my experience, satiety is always triggered. Even though portions are very small, I am always full. I think many people, including people in this thread, confuse palatability with reward. Junk food is high reward. Home cooked whole foods is low reward.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on March 23, 2012
at 04:25 PM

I don't understand this fixation on punishing overweight/obese people. The media and conventional wisdom want to put them on calorie restriction and chronic cardio and treat them as gluttons. Gary Taubes called it akin to torture. I sometimes wonder if food reward theory is that same psychology about punishing overweight and obese people. I have no doubt bland food will prevent overeating but isn't that back to calorie restriction and is that how people want to live the rest of their life? The French love their food and it's hyper-palatable -and still relatively healthy (compared to SAD).

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on March 23, 2012
at 01:21 PM

Yeah, I think paleo gourment would be pretty low reward, unless maybe you are talking "Paleo" Lemon Squares and that stuff. I think the bland diet Stephan mentioned was more for fat people to "reset" their reward centers and break their cravings for donuts and stuff.

A4587cfef29863db612c43f89c202cc1

(2053)

on March 23, 2012
at 11:01 AM

You could always whip yourself a little for dessert, if you enjoyed dinner too much.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 23, 2012
at 08:18 AM

My guess is that paleo gourmet would be pretty low reward. Maybe I'm missing something about this question.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:29 AM

Thank You Wowza!!!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Thank You Meghan!!!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:39 AM

Thank you. I have updated the question.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:34 AM

Thank you. I have updated the later. I will update both soon.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Thanks. It is all Paleo. I have updated the question...

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13 Answers

14
80890193d74240cab6dda920665bfb6c

(1528)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:24 AM

Gourmet. Because life is for joy, not Puritan suffering for unproven theories. Sorry, Stephen.

A4587cfef29863db612c43f89c202cc1

(2053)

on March 23, 2012
at 11:01 AM

You could always whip yourself a little for dessert, if you enjoyed dinner too much.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:29 AM

Thank You Wowza!!!

6
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 23, 2012
at 04:44 PM

People are confusing high food reward with good. Oreos are high food reward. Oreos are not good food from an aesthetic standpoint. I won't be writing missives about the complex flavors of Oreos, but if you give me them to eat, I'll just keep eating them because they hit all the right spots in my brain.

food-reward--vs--paleo-gourmet?

To contrast, here is a dish to write home about. Roe with coconut and small berries and greens, with a dusting of savory fishy dashi. That dish was tiny, but more satisfying on all the aesthetic levels than an oreo will ever be. It didn't make me ravenous. I was happy there were other courses after it, but I didn't feel the need to go into the kitchen and ask for more. There is a reason they call eating junk "mindless eating."

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Looks awesome!!!

4a7929c2aa05bf11349d9e55cb542d47

(646)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:02 PM

I enjoy dining at restaurants that serve dishes like those mentioned here, and in my experience, satiety is always triggered. Even though portions are very small, I am always full. I think many people, including people in this thread, confuse palatability with reward. Junk food is high reward. *Crappy* restaurant foods (think: Applebees) are high reward. Home cooked whole foods are low reward. Everything else, such as from-scratch prepared foods in a restaurant that are close to the Paleo ideals, falls in the middle and is certainly okay in moderation.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 24, 2012
at 08:37 AM

From what I understand high food reward usually = fat + carb; this triggers some "feed me more more more" in your brain. I think this is why you can eat tons of french fries & not feel satiated but very few just plain (unbuttered) potatoes and you don't feel like eating more. Plain yogurt/sugared yogurt, apples/apple pie, that kind of thing. Pizza is also a fat/carb bomb.

4a7929c2aa05bf11349d9e55cb542d47

(646)

on March 23, 2012
at 04:59 PM

I enjoy dining at restaurants that serve dishes like those mentioned here, and in my experience, satiety is always triggered. Even though portions are very small, I am always full. I think many people, including people in this thread, confuse palatability with reward. Junk food is high reward. Home cooked whole foods is low reward.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on March 24, 2012
at 04:44 AM

I want some - it looks delicious!

4
1296f5fecd084f101d7c5fbe013f07eb

(1213)

on March 23, 2012
at 04:31 PM

Gourmet. One of the reasons I adore Paleo eating is that I can prepare amazing, flavorful dishes way beyond anything other "diets" and "lifestyles" have to offer. Between confit, pate, and marrow, there just isn't any competition. I am a huge foodie, and joy in great food and shared meals with loved ones are some of the best things in life to me!

Qualifications: I am lacto-paleo, so there's grassfed butter, heavy cream, and aged cheeses in my life. I could live without them, but since my cholesterol is good, I'm not overweight, and I feel great, why bother? Paleo Chef would have a field day.

Edited to add: bland food diets just smack of early twentieth century Kellogg and Graham nonsense, designed to prevent "appetites" of the non-food variety.

4
Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:47 AM

The idea of analyzing your routine and calculating the calories you need and putting that amount down the hatch like so much gas in a car every day, whether you feel like it or not, seems light years away from the whole idea of paleo to me. I don't vote for either. I vote for simplicity and eating what's around and in season and listening to your body's signals, not calculating calories.

3
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on March 23, 2012
at 11:28 AM

Gourmet - why waste the skills of your Paleo chef?

Plus, I'm pretty sure I could eat expensive dry-aged steaks with veggies fried in duck fat and finished with truffles every day.

3
Ee70ee808f748374744404a00e1c22ed

(1163)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:57 AM

Definitely paleo gourmet. If the calories are all calculated out and set at your specific level, why bother with food reward?

3
06325b762f78a2b8aaa977161cca4a1f

(539)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:51 AM

I would choose paleo gourmet because there's the option to reduce the flavor intensity (eg use less sauce, take off the herbed skin on chicken, etc) if desired. I also think herbs/salt, which are generally not part of a low reward diet, are pretty essential (for me); They seem to aid digestion and positively affect my mood.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Thank You Meghan!!!

2
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:03 PM

In his latest post, Guyenet mentions the dreaded scientific consensus. Perhaps it is just me, but this suggests ivory tower syndrome, considering the tragedy of climatology. Perhaps I should put another T in there and call it ITTS, which would be Ivory Tower Tribal Syndrome, given that the conversation seems to be largely about circling the wagons and defending each other's work rather than pushing the knowledge envelope forward. Be as paleo gourmet as you want, and don't let the 'scientists' forget that they need to put on their big boy pants and do the real studies (that is a paraphrase of what I remember Robb Wolf saying on his last podcast with regard to that Harvard anti-meat study. Is Guyenet going to hop on board with that consensus?)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:10 PM

why put on pants when you can strut around in a mortar board and your cool school colors?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:09 PM

+1 for pointing out that dreaded consensus. The only thing worse is when we get a lecture how much we don't understand..

1
4815ce60a36f08fb6878bb458c249034

on March 23, 2012
at 08:16 PM

Which level of food reward? Stephan's recommended levels 1 and 2 are compatible with the gourmet approach. Level 3, "don't add fat", hurts - a lot! Levels 4 and 5 have pretty clearly progressed from "don't eat crappy food" to "I think I'm eating crap." As Mazer said, if the calories are controlled why bother. For me, gourmet all the way!

August mentioned the consensus on food reward. Everyone agrees, eat food that tastes really good and you overeat and gain weight. I wonder how much was spent to come to that conclusion? Isn't that what every "diet" is, quit eating what you like the most? Studies show most people go back to eating what they ate before. They are not compliant with dietary change. Why? Because they want more of what they like the most, just like Stephan's rats! Ultimately, people have to choose, medicine in a pill bottle or medicine on their plate. It's medicine - it doesn't have to taste good, but it's nice that it can.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 08:45 PM

Very Nice! You can choose the level as well. :-)

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 23, 2012
at 07:11 PM

Gourmet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the food reward hypothesis is mostly a joke. (And yes, I do understand it.)

1
35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on March 23, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Gourmet. If cooked according to the tenets of how I eat, it should be low reward but very tasty. Also, I'm athletic, so I don't need to lose a ton of fat or deal with binge eating issues (anymore).

1
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:28 AM

I don't understand what you mean. If one of the two contains grains for example, it's a "no-go" for me regardless how yummy it might be. Can't process them properly, so it's not a matter of reward or gourmet, it's a matter of practicality. So the question for me would have to be between two Paleo recipes, not one Paleo and one not.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Thanks. It is all Paleo. I have updated the question...

1
A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on March 23, 2012
at 05:25 AM

I don't understand what is meant by "food reward" and "paleo gourmet" here--particularly the latter. Can you be more specific?

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:34 AM

Thank you. I have updated the later. I will update both soon.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 23, 2012
at 05:39 AM

Thank you. I have updated the question.

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