6

votes

Fish oil dangers

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 08, 2011 at 6:25 AM

Yes, PUFAs are dangerous. Or are they...

What do we know exactly ?

On negative side

  • We know that PUFA fats get easily oxidized from various papers (see for instance http://goo.gl/sKvAi or http://goo.gl/xCg7c). All of the studies I have seen are in-vitro and in-vitro has most of the time nothing to do with in-vivo.

  • We know that Ray Peat thinks its some sort of experiment on people.

  • We know what Peskin thinks, if you want to consider him.

  • We know that it can be contaminated with hard metals and/or rancid.

On the positive

  • We know fish oil helps in many different pathological scenarios - insulin resistance, hypertension, AD, ADHD, MS, obesity, inflamation, children dyslexia etc..

  • We know we are probably deficient as the only way to create it is to have adequate input of alpha linolenic acid and not use trans fatty acids (See Know your fats from Mery Enig). We also know that ALA->DHA/EPA conversion is considered inefficient, from 2%-9%) and many people don't eat fish.

  • We know dietary fish is correlated to health & longevity

  • We know that fat-3 gene knockout C. elegans mutants, worms that don't have delta-6 desaturaze enzyme needed to convert ALA to DHA have dramatically reduced body locomotion and have depleted synaptic vesicles and age faster, and that providing DHA supplements resolve the issues.

  • We know that delta-6 desaturaze declines with age and that it is considered one mechanism of aging.

We also have some strange papers that promote cognitive dissonance. In http://goo.gl/h8Tsj they say that "Addition of DHA/AA prevents alcohol-induced fatty liver and mitochondrial dysfunction in an animal model by protecting various mitochondrial enzymes most likely through reducing oxidative/nitrosative stress".

So, what do you think. Whom do you trust. Would you consider dropping out fish oil ? Do you have any more negatives to share?

E286e6ba6ef6c4c4a31a749e59aa57e1

(608)

on November 09, 2011
at 02:00 PM

If I dont do the Carlsons or the COD liver oil I get hung over pretty easliy.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:58 AM

Nice Link daz!!!

Medium avatar

(8239)

on November 09, 2011
at 02:28 AM

Your impulse to reduce O6 is wise. Too many enthusiasts are upping their O3 while gorging on nuts thus elevating O6. People: nuts may no longer be "bad" but that's not the same as an unlimited good.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 08, 2011
at 10:39 PM

A Paul Jaminet post on the subject; http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=3287

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 08, 2011
at 10:30 PM

My dad always used to swear by eating a stick of butter before drinking. Sounds like something similar, all related to fats. Not sure if the alcohol's just not digested or what.

2bdc990a200584a385650cf68475f095

on November 08, 2011
at 08:17 PM

"Whut?" I like the dude. The Balkans represent.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

It makes me work harder to balance 6:3. I have 3 grams omega 3 from diet.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on November 08, 2011
at 04:47 PM

Did Majkinetor get deleted??

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 08, 2011
at 02:32 PM

Considered a bigger problem by whom? Molecularly distilled fish oils are processed with high heat which damages the oils. The Green Pastures brand is extensively tested for impurities and heat is not used in the processing. Win/win.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:26 PM

I think you are being overly restrictive.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:25 PM

Toxins are considered bigger problem then rancidity. Thats why we have molecularly destilled fish oils.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:24 PM

Thats interesting and confirms that research I mentioned above. BUT, what happens if you didn't have cod liver oil and hangover is immanent. There is an epic way to break it in 2-4 hours like it never happened.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 09:24 AM

I second all your said. Exactly the same experience, with both positive effects on mood, bipolar behavior etc.. and I think that if I overshoot, my nose starts running.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on November 08, 2011
at 06:54 AM

On second look, I suppose my PUFA intake must be higher than I originally though, as I do eat a fair amount of sashimi, including tuna, fatty yellowtail belly and sometimes salmon during any given week...probably once or twice a week on average.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on November 08, 2011
at 06:50 AM

fortunately, I only paid $10.99 for the bottle, so I won't feel bad if I decide to get rid of it. Question though: If my overall intake of n-6 PUFA is very low to non-existent, is the fish oil really that bad?

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10 Answers

3
Medium avatar

on November 08, 2011
at 06:45 AM

That Ray Peat article is pretty eye-opening. I'm wondering if the info contained therein is merely alarmist, or to be taken very seriously? I'm a skeptic, but I'm also most definitely not a scientist.

Just bought a bottle of 1,000mg capsules of wild cod, anchovy, sardine and mackerel oil from Natrol today. Now I'm reconsidering my purchase! Previously I was taking Carlsson Norwegian salmon oil.

For a time I was severely depressed (drinking heavily, smoking and also eating SAD, which probably didn't help matters much!) and started taking very large doses of n-3 oil derived from cod livers. It seemed to have a positive effect on my mental clarity and mood, but I also started to really clean up my act at that time, which my have contributed in a greater way to my mental well-being. Lots to think about here.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on November 08, 2011
at 06:50 AM

fortunately, I only paid $10.99 for the bottle, so I won't feel bad if I decide to get rid of it. Question though: If my overall intake of n-6 PUFA is very low to non-existent, is the fish oil really that bad?

Medium avatar

(5639)

on November 08, 2011
at 06:54 AM

On second look, I suppose my PUFA intake must be higher than I originally though, as I do eat a fair amount of sashimi, including tuna, fatty yellowtail belly and sometimes salmon during any given week...probably once or twice a week on average.

2
Fd627132a760e414f2afbf378c8afd9b

(260)

on November 08, 2011
at 09:09 AM

I tend to go on the high side of the dosage generally taking 1800-3600mg ED and I have had more positive experiences with fish oil than negative. All my evidence is purely anecdotal.

On the positives, it elevates my mood and calms me dramatically. I find myself getting much less angry, moody, and having fewer bad thoughts. When I go without it for a length of time, I notice myself reverting to snapping at people easier, feeling depressed, and not being as mentally balanced in general.

On the negative, I've found that my blood doesn't clot as easy if I go too high, which could potentially be very dangerous in a life threatening situation. Other than that, I've had no real negatives to speak of.

If I could only supplement with one thing, it would be fish oil hands down.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 09:24 AM

I second all your said. Exactly the same experience, with both positive effects on mood, bipolar behavior etc.. and I think that if I overshoot, my nose starts running.

1
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on May 11, 2013
at 07:54 AM

I think if you stick to basics - what were your ancestors eating 40,000 years ago you tend not to go far wrong. They would be eating fish. They would not be eating a manufactured oil from a bottle. I eat grilled salmon 4 times a week and that works very well for me.

1
543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 08, 2011
at 10:48 PM

A Paul Jaminet post on the subject; http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=3287

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:58 AM

Nice Link daz!!!

1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on November 08, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Or we could just eat sashimi (or if you like rice, chirashi or sushi rolls) a few times a week if you have a Sushi-ya near you. Since the problem is oxidation, isn't the solution is to eat fresh fish?

Just go easy on the soy sauce and rolls that may have other stuff like mayonnaise (which you can bet came from a jar and was made from trans-fat oils.)

That said, I do take krill oil or salmon oil as a supplement, and eat sardines with lemon juice, or salmon steak, or grilled ahi a couple of times a week. I don't worry about it too much.

1
44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 08, 2011
at 02:33 PM

I just had 400 grams of herrings poached in coconut, i guess i had my day worth of fishoil there :)

1
13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 08, 2011
at 12:37 PM

I don't take fish oil, but I do take Green Pastures fermented cod liver oil. Since heat is not used to produce it oxidation and rancidity are not concerns.

It's the only supplement I take and I've found it has improved my mood and energy levels.

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 08, 2011
at 02:32 PM

Considered a bigger problem by whom? Molecularly distilled fish oils are processed with high heat which damages the oils. The Green Pastures brand is extensively tested for impurities and heat is not used in the processing. Win/win.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:25 PM

Toxins are considered bigger problem then rancidity. Thats why we have molecularly destilled fish oils.

0
2303b2ab9359cbec4c24d5cf39d16d5a

on May 11, 2013
at 06:54 AM

i just listened to an coast to coast episode with a portion called DANGERS OF FISH OIL. After listening, i'm now more skeptical of the benefits of fish oil and eager to do some more research. i haven't accepted his claim as true, but I enjoy habitually challenging the status quo - the claim that fish oil is beneficial for us. Here's a synopsis of the episode:

Prof. Brian Peskin reported that a number of studies show fish oil is not beneficial to health (a recent Italian study found the supplement does not prevent heart attacks). Fish oil capsules are "non-physiologic" to human beings, providing much more DHA and EPA than one's body would ever create, and can have deleterious effects, he declared. While eating fish is generally healthy, fish oil supplements immediately oxidize in the body, and go rancid, he continued. Instead of fish oil, Peskin suggested people supplement with what he called Parent Essential Oils (PEOs), unadulterated forms of essential fats that the body needs. More on PEOs here (http://brianpeskin.com/BP.com/reports/PEO-Info.pdf).

Here's the link: http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2013/05/09

Any more thoughts?

0
E286e6ba6ef6c4c4a31a749e59aa57e1

on November 08, 2011
at 01:03 PM

ALl I know is if I take a 1/4 cup of Carslons or hand full of fermented cod liver oil before a night out drinking, Ive found it nearly impossible to get a hangover the next day. Go figure.

E286e6ba6ef6c4c4a31a749e59aa57e1

(608)

on November 09, 2011
at 02:00 PM

If I dont do the Carlsons or the COD liver oil I get hung over pretty easliy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:24 PM

Thats interesting and confirms that research I mentioned above. BUT, what happens if you didn't have cod liver oil and hangover is immanent. There is an epic way to break it in 2-4 hours like it never happened.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 08, 2011
at 10:30 PM

My dad always used to swear by eating a stick of butter before drinking. Sounds like something similar, all related to fats. Not sure if the alcohol's just not digested or what.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 08, 2011
at 06:31 AM

I take one gram of fish oil per day. That is my maximum. I then minimize my omega 6.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

It makes me work harder to balance 6:3. I have 3 grams omega 3 from diet.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on November 09, 2011
at 02:28 AM

Your impulse to reduce O6 is wise. Too many enthusiasts are upping their O3 while gorging on nuts thus elevating O6. People: nuts may no longer be "bad" but that's not the same as an unlimited good.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 08, 2011
at 01:26 PM

I think you are being overly restrictive.

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