2

votes

Thoughts on fiber?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 02, 2013 at 2:19 AM

Do you buy into the hype that people like Robert Lustig preach where they say that many modern diseases are caused by fiberless carbs, like sugar and specifically the fructose in sugar?

I've seen a study by him where he has some kids on a 60g/fiber/day diet and some on 20/g/fiber/day and the kids on 60 end up having a 40% lower blood glucose than the other kids after like a month or two.

He seems to think that if you have chronically elevated blood glucose then you're body has to become insulin resistant so as not to get damaged, which for most people means FAT. He also talks about how something like a third of fructose is actually metabolized as fat?

What are your thoughts on this? Is our fiberphobic society at least in part to blame? Can fiber (like from beans) help people manage their blood glucose, increase their insulin sensitivity and ultimately become more metabolically fit along with an otherwise balanced diet and exercise?

Or is fiber just not that important?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 02, 2013
at 08:32 PM

Thanks. I did not answer anything about grains or legumes because, honestly, I do not know. My guess would be they consumed SOME grains, but in a very small amount and not year around. At least not till the onset of agriculture.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 06:32 PM

gotten an astronomical 100+ grams of fiber per day http://paleohacks.com/questions/6941/paleolithic-fiber-consumption#axzz2apmDD4AS , Eaton 1990 , 2006. Before we could refine foods like wheat, and sugar and before we selectively bred fruits and tubers we had to bear a lot more fiber than we do today. But I feel like I'm getting a lot off topic and just rambling now, lol. I think the main question I'm attempting to get at is: How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 06:24 PM

+1 for your very formal response, lol. I tend to agree that fiber is best served when coming from a complete food source. I also agree that different paleo groups ate different paleo foods. However I have to ask why anywhere in your post you didn't mention whole grains/legumes? There's evidence that some groups consumed grains dating much further back than the agricultural revolution. And many groups I'd consider paleo which Weston A Price visited consumed whole grains along with animal products and processed excellent health. Also, some studies seem to indicate that some paleo groups may have

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:40 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/199797/do-you-meet-the-rda-for-fiber-on-any-given-day#axzz2apmDD4AS

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:40 PM

Less than 3% of adults meet the RDA for fiber and the average US adult could double their fiber intake and still be below the RDA. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/05/28/jn.112.160176.full.pdf . My use of fiberphobic is a hyperbole used to emphasize the magnitude of the situation, I'm not trying to imply that people are afraid of fiber like they're afraid of spiders or snakes or terrorists or clowns or heights or [pick a fear], I'm instead saying that for whatever reason Americans are avoiding Fiber in their diets, they are not meeting the rda. Even many PHers aren't meeting the RDA:

235e74b9adb57eff80592f064e1d298b

(421)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:58 PM

I guess I still dont understand the question... I dont think western society is Fiberphobic either... If you look at the SAD eaters they put emphasis on whole grains loaded with fiber. They even go so far to say that fiber is essential to the human body. Fiberless carbs are a byproduct of making fiber more palatable to people, but I cant think of anyone who avoids fiber... Could you elaborate to include specific examples of fiberphobics?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:22 PM

When I say "Is our fiberphobic society at least in part to blame?" I'm referring to Western society, not paleo society. My question is essentially: **How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?**

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:21 PM

When I say "Is our fiberphobic society at least in part to blame?" I'm referring to Western society, not paleo society. My questions essentially is: **How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?**

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 02:30 PM

Still probably wouldn't add more than 1/2 to 1 cup day periodically.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 02:30 PM

I find that processed food gives me more gas than anything - particularly nasty gas. Beans never did do much to my GI, only if I overate them.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 01:04 PM

Yea, I figure, it's super cheap protein along with being a blood glucose regulating carb source and it will probably lower my ldl cholesterol. Plus they are satiating. I'm still playing around with the type of beans though, improperly prepared beans eaten in large and in isolation can give me some serious gas, so remember that before you go too gung ho for sure.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 01:03 PM

Yea, I figure, it's super cheap protein along with being a glucose regulating carb source and it will probably lower my ldl cholesterol. Plus they are satiating. I'm still playing around with the type of beans though, improperly prepared beans eaten in large and in isolation can give me some serious gas, so remember that before you go too gung ho for sure.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:59 PM

Yea, that's what I figure, plus they have a ridiculous amount of fiber and I'm interested in their blood sugar regulating properties because of that.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:58 PM

Considering I'm on a limited budget for the next few month, it seems a good time to introduce and experiment with beans.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:31 PM

Re: Fat is bad -- I have never seen anyone say high fat low fiber. You can get plenty of fiber while still on low carb**, especially if you subscribe to the "net carbs" mantra. A cup of avocado has 12g carbs, with 11g being fiber. That's the same amount of fiber as a cup of kidney beans -- and the kidney beans contain another 30g of carbs. **I am not low carb, nor do I wish to be, this is just an example.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:30 PM

@Stephen, looking at modern hunter-gatherer groups. Several of them consume significantly few g fiber than RDA minimums. So I do not think there is conclusive evidence that fiber is necessary. I also know that some of the gastro-problems I have had were alleviated at a lower fiber content than I previously had. I think it's important to have balance. Beans, for me, do not provide balance.

D396b126240f584bc358e6e4fd84e9e3

(455)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:55 AM

There are just too many variables with that study. 1. How any carbohydrates were consumed in each group? 2. What were the sources of saturated fat? You then have to consider the relatively high intake of polyunsaturated fats and the relatively small difference in fiber intake. 4.6 g vs 2 g when the recommended daily amount is much higher (~ 30 g).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 02, 2013
at 04:18 AM

i don't think you have to eat beans to get this 'effect' just the right type or types of fiber

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 02, 2013
at 04:17 AM

in regards to beans, here is a video discussing the 'Second Meal Effect' http://nutritionfacts.org/video/beans-and-the-second-meal-effect/ "The so-called “lentil effect” or “second meal effect” describes the remarkable effect of beans to help control blood sugar levels hours or even the next day after consumption"

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:33 AM

I really think people are going to have to stop writing off fiber as inconsequential. I mean, we are paleo right? Do you know how much fiber was in the paleo diet? Lol, we're talking at least 3 times the RDA at conservative estimates. If fiber blunts glycotic damage and lowers ldl-b then this, along wit exercise would help explain why the western diet (though meat heavy) seems to be associated with increased risks of metabolic derangement.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:30 AM

arteries. I know a lot of people here don't buy into the fat is bad mantra. But here's a simple study showing a high fat low fiber diet lowers androgenic hormones and increases retention of estradiol in men http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407 .

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:27 AM

I mean, I picked beans because gram for gram they are easily one of the fiber densest foods on the market, especially at the price. Almost any whole grain or vegetable could take its place though in regards to fiber. Avocados, broccoli, greens, though maybe not potatoes (especially if you peel them). Really I'm trying to get feedback in regards to Robert Lustig's take on fiber as it relates to the metabolic syndrome. Fiber also binds up bile in the acid and helps facilitate the transfer of ldl cholesterols from your but to the toilet so they don't get stuck circulating and oxidating in your

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 02, 2013
at 02:52 AM

What a great answer. I never go out of my way to add fiber, but I don't try to avoid it either. I just eat real fruits and vegetables and let my gut work it out.

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4 Answers

3
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 02, 2013
at 02:31 AM

I put fiber in the same category as carbohydrates. Important, but not necessary.

I am a bit confused as to how that correlates with necessitating beans. If you like beans, go for it. But you can get plenty of fiber from paleo" sources -- avocados, broccoli, greens, sweet potatoes, yuca, potatoes, and various fruits.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:33 AM

I really think people are going to have to stop writing off fiber as inconsequential. I mean, we are paleo right? Do you know how much fiber was in the paleo diet? Lol, we're talking at least 3 times the RDA at conservative estimates. If fiber blunts glycotic damage and lowers ldl-b then this, along wit exercise would help explain why the western diet (though meat heavy) seems to be associated with increased risks of metabolic derangement.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:27 AM

I mean, I picked beans because gram for gram they are easily one of the fiber densest foods on the market, especially at the price. Almost any whole grain or vegetable could take its place though in regards to fiber. Avocados, broccoli, greens, though maybe not potatoes (especially if you peel them). Really I'm trying to get feedback in regards to Robert Lustig's take on fiber as it relates to the metabolic syndrome. Fiber also binds up bile in the acid and helps facilitate the transfer of ldl cholesterols from your but to the toilet so they don't get stuck circulating and oxidating in your

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:30 AM

arteries. I know a lot of people here don't buy into the fat is bad mantra. But here's a simple study showing a high fat low fiber diet lowers androgenic hormones and increases retention of estradiol in men http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407 .

D396b126240f584bc358e6e4fd84e9e3

(455)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:55 AM

There are just too many variables with that study. 1. How any carbohydrates were consumed in each group? 2. What were the sources of saturated fat? You then have to consider the relatively high intake of polyunsaturated fats and the relatively small difference in fiber intake. 4.6 g vs 2 g when the recommended daily amount is much higher (~ 30 g).

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on August 02, 2013
at 02:52 AM

What a great answer. I never go out of my way to add fiber, but I don't try to avoid it either. I just eat real fruits and vegetables and let my gut work it out.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:30 PM

@Stephen, looking at modern hunter-gatherer groups. Several of them consume significantly few g fiber than RDA minimums. So I do not think there is conclusive evidence that fiber is necessary. I also know that some of the gastro-problems I have had were alleviated at a lower fiber content than I previously had. I think it's important to have balance. Beans, for me, do not provide balance.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:31 PM

Re: Fat is bad -- I have never seen anyone say high fat low fiber. You can get plenty of fiber while still on low carb**, especially if you subscribe to the "net carbs" mantra. A cup of avocado has 12g carbs, with 11g being fiber. That's the same amount of fiber as a cup of kidney beans -- and the kidney beans contain another 30g of carbs. **I am not low carb, nor do I wish to be, this is just an example.

2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:41 PM

Re: beans. I've never found the paleo arguments against beans/legumes to be all that convincing. I don't particularly care for beans and haven't eaten them more than 2-3 times in the past 3 years, with no ill effect when I do. But I do think there's probably a lot of good in beans. Prebiotic carbohydrates are a big plus. The mineral content is pretty stellar too (phytates can be managed). Even if the mineral content is not 100% bioavailable, there's still a significant amount there, plus the other positive features.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:58 PM

Considering I'm on a limited budget for the next few month, it seems a good time to introduce and experiment with beans.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 02:30 PM

I find that processed food gives me more gas than anything - particularly nasty gas. Beans never did do much to my GI, only if I overate them.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 02, 2013
at 02:30 PM

Still probably wouldn't add more than 1/2 to 1 cup day periodically.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 01:03 PM

Yea, I figure, it's super cheap protein along with being a glucose regulating carb source and it will probably lower my ldl cholesterol. Plus they are satiating. I'm still playing around with the type of beans though, improperly prepared beans eaten in large and in isolation can give me some serious gas, so remember that before you go too gung ho for sure.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 12:59 PM

Yea, that's what I figure, plus they have a ridiculous amount of fiber and I'm interested in their blood sugar regulating properties because of that.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 01:04 PM

Yea, I figure, it's super cheap protein along with being a blood glucose regulating carb source and it will probably lower my ldl cholesterol. Plus they are satiating. I'm still playing around with the type of beans though, improperly prepared beans eaten in large and in isolation can give me some serious gas, so remember that before you go too gung ho for sure.

1
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 02, 2013
at 09:00 AM

Stephen,

First thing first: Paleo diet is a modern approach to emulate various hunter-gatherer dietary practices that existed and still exist when humans eat naturally, i.e. foods that are available in their natural surroundings.

If we examine closely what kind of foods our common ancestors could find in their surroundings during Paleo times, that would be wild animals and game, eggs in spring (not year around), insects, seasonal fruit, fish and seafood, roots, shoots, leaves, berries and nuts.

Are there / were there tribes that had very little starch/fruit/vegetables? The answer is yes, but they were not in any way representative of ALL people. People survived on ANYTHING they could find in nature.

So, to answer your fiber question - the amount of fiber was different for every Paleo tribe. In modern day interpretation this would amount to vegetables, leaves, berries, root vegetables and sweet potatoes. Those are healthy sources of fiber.

However, if your gut is compromised, I am not sure how to answer this question. I am a strong believer in consuming a reasonable amount of naturally-occurring fiber. It means - no fiber supplements, no bran, no fiber shakes.

Hope this makes sense.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 06:32 PM

gotten an astronomical 100+ grams of fiber per day http://paleohacks.com/questions/6941/paleolithic-fiber-consumption#axzz2apmDD4AS , Eaton 1990 , 2006. Before we could refine foods like wheat, and sugar and before we selectively bred fruits and tubers we had to bear a lot more fiber than we do today. But I feel like I'm getting a lot off topic and just rambling now, lol. I think the main question I'm attempting to get at is: How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 06:24 PM

+1 for your very formal response, lol. I tend to agree that fiber is best served when coming from a complete food source. I also agree that different paleo groups ate different paleo foods. However I have to ask why anywhere in your post you didn't mention whole grains/legumes? There's evidence that some groups consumed grains dating much further back than the agricultural revolution. And many groups I'd consider paleo which Weston A Price visited consumed whole grains along with animal products and processed excellent health. Also, some studies seem to indicate that some paleo groups may have

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 02, 2013
at 08:32 PM

Thanks. I did not answer anything about grains or legumes because, honestly, I do not know. My guess would be they consumed SOME grains, but in a very small amount and not year around. At least not till the onset of agriculture.

0
235e74b9adb57eff80592f064e1d298b

on August 02, 2013
at 02:52 PM

OK, so I am confused by this thread... maybe I'm not reading it right or maybe I'm just an idiot. My Paleo diet consists of Fats, proteins and carbs. Of those carbs I eat alot of Kale, Spinach, Squash, Melon, Berries, Cauliflower, Asparagus and others of the sort... Last time I checked they were all full of Fiber.

I dont think Paleo's are Fiberphobic at all, in fact I would argue just the opposite, you cant eat Paleo without eating foods high in fiber. So Im not sure what the topic is trying to say or ask...

Will someone clarify for me...please!!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:22 PM

When I say "Is our fiberphobic society at least in part to blame?" I'm referring to Western society, not paleo society. My question is essentially: **How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?**

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:40 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/199797/do-you-meet-the-rda-for-fiber-on-any-given-day#axzz2apmDD4AS

235e74b9adb57eff80592f064e1d298b

(421)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:58 PM

I guess I still dont understand the question... I dont think western society is Fiberphobic either... If you look at the SAD eaters they put emphasis on whole grains loaded with fiber. They even go so far to say that fiber is essential to the human body. Fiberless carbs are a byproduct of making fiber more palatable to people, but I cant think of anyone who avoids fiber... Could you elaborate to include specific examples of fiberphobics?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 03:21 PM

When I say "Is our fiberphobic society at least in part to blame?" I'm referring to Western society, not paleo society. My questions essentially is: **How significant of a role does fiber consumption have on health?**

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on August 02, 2013
at 05:40 PM

Less than 3% of adults meet the RDA for fiber and the average US adult could double their fiber intake and still be below the RDA. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/05/28/jn.112.160176.full.pdf . My use of fiberphobic is a hyperbole used to emphasize the magnitude of the situation, I'm not trying to imply that people are afraid of fiber like they're afraid of spiders or snakes or terrorists or clowns or heights or [pick a fear], I'm instead saying that for whatever reason Americans are avoiding Fiber in their diets, they are not meeting the rda. Even many PHers aren't meeting the RDA:

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