4

votes

Do you know why coconut oil is so valuable as a paleo tool?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created May 01, 2011 at 1:24 PM

Coconut oil is a saturated fat that has 90% concentration. It contains 45% lauric acid and 16% myristic acid and palmitic acid 8%. The key point is the coconut oil must be virgin and not processed because then the saturated fats remain mostly medium chain triglycerides which are rapidly absorbed in the small bowel and immediately uptaken by the portal circulation and head straight for the mitocondrial furnaces of the hepatocyte for use. They can not be stored by the body so they are a great source of energy right then. Athelete dont know this oil is better than eating carbs post work out for this reason.
The medium chain fatty acids can go through ??-oxidation, they have to go through ??-oxidation first. Step one of ??-oxidation requires NADPH. And here's the catch: NADPH also is required for fatty acid synthesis. No NADPH means that fatty acid synthesis is replaced by ketone formation. Ketones are water soluble, so in that case the liver doesn't require choline to export the energy into the blood. Remember choline is vital for getting rid of intrahepatic fat. This is the cause of type two diabetes and most of the chronic diseases of aging I treat.
So, it should then be clear that the medium-chain fatty acids in coconut oil deplete NADPH, thereby causing most of the alcohol energy to be exported as ketones. This would mean little to no fat accumulation in the liver.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 02, 2011
at 12:43 AM

Dr. K - I don't see anyone here arguing that coconut products are not a good food to eat, if you like them. However, the current hype about coconut products is leading to too many exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims about them.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 02, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Dr. K - I don't see anyone here arguing that coconut products are not a good food to eat, if you like them. It is the exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims stated with such certainty that are a problem.

91219405abedbfd400ce00dea242a00f

(1044)

on May 02, 2011
at 12:23 AM

If what you're saying is true and it depletes NADPH, would it be sensible to eat coconut oil/butter while drinking alcohol to prevent/reduce oxidant formation?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 09:47 PM

Megadosing has little do to with it. We are not talking Linus Pauling circa 1968

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:50 PM

Asa causes a leaky gut but some can tolerate it. Some can't. Those who are susceptible have higher risks. So if you're a ibs or crohns patient your more likely to get. Kinda like a celiac on a high carb diet has huge risks of schizophrenia for the same reason. Context.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:48 PM

Nadph is cooked by statins too....and so is it's cofactor coenzyme q 10. Your liver does not stop working......but those effects are there.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:46 PM

Processing is the main reason.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:45 PM

Moreover the sat fat in MCT oils have a direct anti bacterial effect and are also know to reverse oxidized pufa's in the skin called liver spot. This is a direct anti oxidant effect. Lipofuscin is that oxidized pufa and it will go away with topical application of MCT oils. Interestingly enough our skin anti bacterial effect is pleitrophic too. One is the mechanical barrier of the skin itself. The second is sebum. Yes that oil in your skin......it is loaded with guess what? MCT!!!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:39 PM

You do know that coconut oil has antioxidant within it that replenish Nadph huh? Coconut oil has been shown to reduce the need for vitamin in hepatocytes too. I believe Ray Peat has even mentioned this.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:33 PM

And if they were stored in heat they oxidize fast. The method of processing is different it could change the mix of oils and level or if it were wet or dry processed. Badly processed coconut oil is usually fed to cows and horses. I bet these are possible. Nutiva is a good non gmo oil. Their manna is even better

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:31 PM

And looking it up goes both ways. Matthew presented several valid points.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:30 PM

"Orthomolecular medicine" has been wrong plenty of times. "Orthomolecular science" should not be different than plain old "science", unless megadose trials require less rigor for some reason.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:29 PM

Was was the expiration date.....I bet it got rancid. Even coconut oils go bad. Shelf life is two years

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:26 PM

Orthomolecular science says it is correct. Medicine based upon evolutionary pathways. You can look it up if you'd like

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:23 PM

I'm in agreement with you, Melissa. I have followed a very conservative paleo approach based on taking stuff out of my diet rather than what I'm putting in with very good results for myself and others. One thing I'm always wary of is the often repeated mistake of ppl believing a little of something being good means alot is totally awesome, dude.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:22 PM

I was attempting to question the issue of whey(isolate) and oxidized cholesterol but the paleos weren't forthcoming. Any ideas as I have a jar that I had thought of dicarding on the grounds that it has "oxidized cholesterol". Should I discard, use it, and/or keep it in the diet as a PWO amino source? Also do you know about the above coconut oil issues?

Db4ad76f6f307a6f577e175710049172

(2297)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I use coconut oil Pre-WO, for energy for my lifts, but then I'm in keto. Sometimes I drink 20g of protein from whey isolate PWO, but that's 30-40min PWO.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:53 PM

...and it could be the opposite of helpful. This speculation is full of holes, and I hope nobody takes this without many grains of salt. I'm reminded of the "Jump to Conclusions" mat in Office Space-- just because something is true, doesn't mean that you can use it to make assumptions about every metabolic process.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:48 PM

Does anyone care to address the problem of salicylates, de novo lipogenesis and also G.I distress?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:27 PM

Thanks for taking the time to review all of this Matthew and I think you hit the nail on the head with this "Its easy to come up with all kinds of fun speculation as to what goes on in metabolic processes in order to justify your opinions. It doesn't make them true. Stating them as fact and using your "Dr" title to give them some credibility does not help anyone."

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:26 PM

ROB, I've had this sickness from coconut oil before. I would suggest that the problem was that you lost your tolerance for coconut oil over the course of your months's break, as you know you need to get used to it before you can eat large quantities. I still find plain coconut oil a bit daunting, but eat large amounts of coconut meat (dessicated, creamed, milk) again fine.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:24 PM

Why does non-virgin oil contain less MCT? Also presumably the fats can be stored by the body, even if not immediately? Also mightn't there be downsides to the fact that MCT require work by the liver?

06f46afda9ee3ca7f0070a3caa294a91

(305)

on May 01, 2011
at 04:45 PM

im sorry to hear about your problem. it sounds awful :( i just bought my first jar of nutiva and will starting "downing" it soon. however, this issue you have concerns me. did you go back to nutiva and still feel sick? i hope you get better.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on May 01, 2011
at 04:28 PM

Try to form a question or it will probably be closed. Good info though. Do you mean athletes eat it pre workout though, not post?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 01, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Is any of it even true?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on May 01, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Interesting information, but how is this even a question?

Cf626d3fba66c18297b3f1116a920e58

(3417)

on May 01, 2011
at 02:04 PM

Very, very cool! Good post.

  • Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

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4 Answers

11
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:12 PM

It contains 45% lauric acid and 16% myristic acid and palmitic acid 8%. The key point is the coconut oil must be virgin and not processed because then the saturated fats remain mostly medium chain triglycerides

The medium chain fatty acid composition of coconut oil remains pretty much the same after refining.

They can not be stored by the body so they are a great source of energy right then. Athelete dont know this oil is better than eating carbs post work out for this reason.

So after workouts atheletes should eat a fuel that they cannot store as energy?

The medium chain fatty acids can go through ??-oxidation, they have to go through ??-oxidation first. Step one of ??-oxidation requires NADPH. And here's the catch: NADPH also is required for fatty acid synthesis. No NADPH means that fatty acid synthesis is replaced by ketone formation.

Ok so how you get from the fact that NADHP is used in ??-oxidation to the idea this process causing all the NADPH to be used up?

Ketones are water soluble, so in that case the liver doesn't require choline to export the energy into the blood. Remember choline is vital for getting rid of intrahepatic fat. This is the cause of type two diabetes and most of the chronic diseases of aging I treat.

This is rather to be a large assumption to make.

So, it should then be clear that the medium-chain fatty acids in coconut oil deplete NADPH, thereby causing most of the alcohol energy to be exported as ketones. This would mean little to no fat accumulation in the liver.

Are you seriously suggesting that coconut oil depletes NADPH in the liver? NADPH is required for several important functions including regenerating glutathione, an important part of the cells antioxident protection.

So by the logic of your argument eating coconut oil seriously reduces the cells antioxidant protection in your liver?

Its easy to come up with all kinds of fun speculation as to what goes on in metabolic processes in order to justify your opinions. It doesn't make them true. Stating them as fact and using your "Dr" title to give them some credibility does not help anyone.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:48 PM

Nadph is cooked by statins too....and so is it's cofactor coenzyme q 10. Your liver does not stop working......but those effects are there.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:31 PM

And looking it up goes both ways. Matthew presented several valid points.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 09:47 PM

Megadosing has little do to with it. We are not talking Linus Pauling circa 1968

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:30 PM

"Orthomolecular medicine" has been wrong plenty of times. "Orthomolecular science" should not be different than plain old "science", unless megadose trials require less rigor for some reason.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 02, 2011
at 12:43 AM

Dr. K - I don't see anyone here arguing that coconut products are not a good food to eat, if you like them. However, the current hype about coconut products is leading to too many exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims about them.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 02, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Dr. K - I don't see anyone here arguing that coconut products are not a good food to eat, if you like them. It is the exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims stated with such certainty that are a problem.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:45 PM

Moreover the sat fat in MCT oils have a direct anti bacterial effect and are also know to reverse oxidized pufa's in the skin called liver spot. This is a direct anti oxidant effect. Lipofuscin is that oxidized pufa and it will go away with topical application of MCT oils. Interestingly enough our skin anti bacterial effect is pleitrophic too. One is the mechanical barrier of the skin itself. The second is sebum. Yes that oil in your skin......it is loaded with guess what? MCT!!!

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:27 PM

Thanks for taking the time to review all of this Matthew and I think you hit the nail on the head with this "Its easy to come up with all kinds of fun speculation as to what goes on in metabolic processes in order to justify your opinions. It doesn't make them true. Stating them as fact and using your "Dr" title to give them some credibility does not help anyone."

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:23 PM

I'm in agreement with you, Melissa. I have followed a very conservative paleo approach based on taking stuff out of my diet rather than what I'm putting in with very good results for myself and others. One thing I'm always wary of is the often repeated mistake of ppl believing a little of something being good means alot is totally awesome, dude.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:26 PM

Orthomolecular science says it is correct. Medicine based upon evolutionary pathways. You can look it up if you'd like

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:53 PM

...and it could be the opposite of helpful. This speculation is full of holes, and I hope nobody takes this without many grains of salt. I'm reminded of the "Jump to Conclusions" mat in Office Space-- just because something is true, doesn't mean that you can use it to make assumptions about every metabolic process.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:39 PM

You do know that coconut oil has antioxidant within it that replenish Nadph huh? Coconut oil has been shown to reduce the need for vitamin in hepatocytes too. I believe Ray Peat has even mentioned this.

1
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on May 01, 2011
at 01:49 PM

Good info doc. I have a question regarding coconut oil consumption. Coconut oil had always been the basis of my diet, I could down 6 tbspns in one sitting with no problems, but about a month ago I ran out, and didn't order until last week from Mountain Rose Herbs instead of Nutiva, which is where I usually get it. Anyways, I proceeded to consume as much as I use to, but I got violently sick (vomit, diarrhea, dizziness), and now I have a strong aversion to coconut oil. Why do you think I had such a terrible reaction? Could I have lost my ability to metabolize it or is it the change in brands? The coconut oil is extra-virgin and cold pressed.

06f46afda9ee3ca7f0070a3caa294a91

(305)

on May 01, 2011
at 04:45 PM

im sorry to hear about your problem. it sounds awful :( i just bought my first jar of nutiva and will starting "downing" it soon. however, this issue you have concerns me. did you go back to nutiva and still feel sick? i hope you get better.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:29 PM

Was was the expiration date.....I bet it got rancid. Even coconut oils go bad. Shelf life is two years

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:33 PM

And if they were stored in heat they oxidize fast. The method of processing is different it could change the mix of oils and level or if it were wet or dry processed. Badly processed coconut oil is usually fed to cows and horses. I bet these are possible. Nutiva is a good non gmo oil. Their manna is even better

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:26 PM

ROB, I've had this sickness from coconut oil before. I would suggest that the problem was that you lost your tolerance for coconut oil over the course of your months's break, as you know you need to get used to it before you can eat large quantities. I still find plain coconut oil a bit daunting, but eat large amounts of coconut meat (dessicated, creamed, milk) again fine.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 01:51 PM

What about salicylates and brain damage? I had gotten into the habit of using coconut oil PWO but encountered new info re: the above. I now have 20 jars of unrefined coconut oil that I have been using only for greasy pans and to condition the skin. I also heard that it causes de novo lipogenesis(fatty acid deposition) and that this is the case with MCTs generally(owing to their rapid absorption). Maybe I am being misinformed and should go back to the coconut oil PWO in place of the starchy carbs?

Db4ad76f6f307a6f577e175710049172

(2297)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I use coconut oil Pre-WO, for energy for my lifts, but then I'm in keto. Sometimes I drink 20g of protein from whey isolate PWO, but that's 30-40min PWO.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:22 PM

I was attempting to question the issue of whey(isolate) and oxidized cholesterol but the paleos weren't forthcoming. Any ideas as I have a jar that I had thought of dicarding on the grounds that it has "oxidized cholesterol". Should I discard, use it, and/or keep it in the diet as a PWO amino source? Also do you know about the above coconut oil issues?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 06:48 PM

Does anyone care to address the problem of salicylates, de novo lipogenesis and also G.I distress?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on May 01, 2011
at 08:50 PM

Asa causes a leaky gut but some can tolerate it. Some can't. Those who are susceptible have higher risks. So if you're a ibs or crohns patient your more likely to get. Kinda like a celiac on a high carb diet has huge risks of schizophrenia for the same reason. Context.

-1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 01, 2011
at 07:20 PM

Do you why starting a personal blog is so valuable as a megalomaniac tool?

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