3

votes

Comment on Persistent Symptoms Post-Paleo? (Fixed: B-12 Deficiency)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 04, 2012 at 8:59 PM

Update 05/10/2012 -- Resolution of Symptoms

Its been a few months since this post, but I think I have finally seen a return of my libido. Its still intermittent, but seems to be growing stronger. What did it for me was B-12. Turns out I'm deficient. (And it looks like there is a history of it in my family, that is still under investigation though.)

All of my symptoms have pretty much disappeared at this point or they are on the way out. Any signs of weakness have disappeared, and I feel much better....feel awesome even.

My supplementation plan:

Temporary

  • 5-htp: 100mg twice daily - to restore serotonin levels (B-12 deficiency lowers serotonin, causing mood swings, which I did not realize were a "symptom" at the time)
  • L-tyrosine: 1g twice daily - to ensure proper levels of dopamine and norepinephrine.

Permanent

  • B-12: 5mg sublingual methylcobalamin (Note, this is a very high dose. It was what I could find at the time, and I will be moving down to a much more reasonable 500mcg - 1mg to maintain levels after I finish these.)

It has been nothing short of miraculous. I even had a symptom I didn't even realize. What follows is a bit graphic, but I thought it so damn interesting.

My orgasms have actually been a hundred times more pleasurable. Sex never actually interested me all that much before as orgasm always seemed "meh". Now I understand whats going on with everyone and sex... ;). Also low serotonin causes premature ejaculation, and as a message to the guys out there who have a problem with this, I want you to know that it is a physiological condition, not some lack of "manhood". My time to ejaculation has improved greatly, and is much more consistent. It used to be short, or never.

----Symptoms corrected by B-12 are listed below----

Hello,

I am 20 years old. I have been eating paleo for about 6 months now. I went from Vegetarian to Paleo, and I'm convinced the vegetarianism did some lasting damage. I still have some general problems which don't seem indicative of the health I want. I am trying to fix through nutritional means, and I wanted to know what other people think the symptoms indicate.

My diet for the past month has been hardcore paleo: no dairy, no legumes, no grains, don't remember the last time I ate sugar. I eat sweet potatoes or potatoes after workouts. At least 3 cups of leafy greens a day, and 3 cups of sulphur containing vegetables (like terry wahls suggest.) I would bet money I exceed 10 cups of vegetables on average. (Recently added in daily cruciferous vegetables to this.) I eat 1-2lb of some form of meat a day. Some days its lean, some days it fatty, depends on what I can afford.

Current Supplementation:

  • Taking for at least 2 months
  • Magnesium Citrate- 300 mg
  • Multivitamin (NOW ADAM)
  • Fermented Cod Liver Oil/Butter Oil (Vitamin A/K2/D)
  • Daily seaweed (Dulse flakes)

Persistent Symptoms:

  • Zero to neglible libido - I have had pretty low libido for a few years now, and its practically non-existent.
  • Keratosis Pilaris - I understand its an inflammatory skin condition due to extra keratin deposits.
  • Difficulty falling asleep
  • General red flush to skin - This has been for as long as I can remember, and on days when its particularly so, people have asked if I was sunburnt.
  • Muscle discomfort/weakness - This is really intermittent now, but every now and then it comes back. (Every month or so?)
  • General fatigue/bleh-ness - usually seems to predict the muscle discomfort.
  • Slow muscle recovery - this has always been what I perceived, can't know for sure if its true I guess. (Worked legs on Tuesday, still a bit sore today, Sunday. Also I doubt I'm overtrained, I regularly take a week off from doing any exercise, at least every 13th week. These symptoms all existed before I took up regular exercise anyway, so I was hesitant to mention it.)

What sparked me most of all to make this post, is last night I was waiting tables. Certain days, given certain conditions and once in a blue moon, social situations or exciting conditions in general, will give me a mood of euphoria. This euphoria is then followed by a crash. This one was interesting, most likely because I've been watching my symptoms lately. I had the general fatigue in the morning, followed by muscle discomfort, and a body that didn't want to do anything. Then I got stressed out at work, and was flying around on a cloud. Also I haven't been sick in a long time at this point.

My thoughts on what it might be:

  • Zinc deficiency?
  • Copper toxicity?
  • Something with the adrenals? (I only drink caffeine in my pre-workout, and even then its <150mg. I don't get caffeine withdrawals on non-workout days when I don't drink it.)

So any thoughts, anecdotes, etc, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help and time.

EDIT: Male 6' 7" 225 lbs (Vegetarianism dropped me from 280 to 250, probably a lot of muscle. Paleo dropped me to where I am now, and I've probably built back at least 20 lbs of muscle.)

Update 3/5/2012

(I'll update in case someone in the future has similar symptoms.)

Thanks everyone for your answers.

My current plan of action:

  • Supplementation
  • Find a zinc tally test and see if that suggests a deficiency.
  • Start on D3 supplementation, or start getting daily sun as its finally starting to show itself.
  • Diet
  • I will eliminate FODMAPs, as my gut is probably not where it needs to be. Improved a lot on paleo, but yesterday something I ate made it angry. (I had asparagus, which shows up on the FODMAPs list, in the same category as wheat and rye, which I find interesting. I never found onions to bother me though, but maybe its because I'm used to whatever distress it causes.)
  • I will look into Betaine HCl supplementation to see if I need to restore some acid function.
  • I am also thinking about simplifying my diet to something like leafy greens, fatty meat, potatoes. (Maybe carrots and bok choy occasionally.) I will try butter again, or get some more coconut oil and try upping my calories. (I may count calories to get an idea of how much I'm ingesting. I normally eat something like 3,000 every time I check, but I'm curious as to my overall absorption.)
  • Tests
  • In the mean time, I will get the blood work done on thyroid levels and hormone levels, will post back when I have those.
  • My most obvious tests of whether I am improving will be a return of libido, regulation of sleep and disappearance of Keratosis Pilaris.

Update 3/6/2012

Got some blood work back. (CBC, CMP14, Lipid Panel, Total Testosterone, Total T4, TSH) Here are some amounts that are pertinent:

Thyroid

  • Total T4 : 5.6 (Normal)
  • TSH : 3.070 (Normal)

Testosterone

  • Testosterone, Serum : 376 (On the low end of the range given, 348 - 1197.)

Numbers I'm Curious About

  • Calcium : 8.6 (Under the lower limit of 8.7. May be the magnesium?)
  • Total Cholesterol : 144 (I'm actually concerned this is too low.)
  • HDL : 39
  • LDL : 85
  • Triglycerides : 99
  • VLDL Cholesterol : 20

Alright...so I guess its time to hack my testosterone. Any help would be appreciated.

Update 03/13/2012

Interesting discovery, not sure what it means yet. Potentially my symptoms are all related to some sort of chronic dehydration. I am starting to run some experiments on myself, but it seems the flushed skin goes away with enough water intake, as does any muscle discomfort I am experiencing. The only thing is its a lot of water...like upwards of 150 oz. I lost count today. But I will start recording and see if I can come up with anything. Probably going to do another post about this because its rather curious.

Update 03/21/2012

Still feeling better than I ever have, just from drinking sufficient water everyday. Still tweaking amounts of sea salt to water, but I've been drinking about a gallon a day and feeling great.

Symptom update:

Muscle discomfort - Significantly reduced, been tweaking amounts of sea salt in my water to see if I can make that disappear forever. My workouts have also been amazing. I feel stronger!

General fatigue - Holy crap this is better. That is about all I have to say on that.

Muscle recovery - Also seems to have improved by about a day or two in time. Where as legs took about 5-6 days to heal before, they've recovered in 4.

Red flush to skin - Still gone consistently.

I've also seen additional stability to my mood, which used to be a little flip floppy, and my stomach has been doing fabulously.

Sadly, libido and keratosis have shown negligible improvement, its hard to tell if its really improved or not. But as good as I'm feeling, I really don't care, and these are conditions I've had for awhile, so a quick fix wasn't really anticipated.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 07, 2012
at 02:50 AM

You were right. Its the testosterone. The lower calcium level combined with low testosterone may indicate low vitamin D. That is my first guess.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 05, 2012
at 02:17 AM

You don't need *that* many vegetables, remember they can crowd out things with calories. ANd you need calories to have a libido. Lots of calories. If you are eating vegetables, make sure to cook them in A LOT of fat or use a fatty salad dressing.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Actually after thinking about it, I don't see why I can't add nightshades back in. I removed them mainly because I thought they were causing the muscle discomfort, but as that is still an issue, it probably wasn't them. Joy! I missed my bell peppers.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:01 AM

The symptoms were present as well when I was eating something like 2lbs of sweet potatoes a day. So I'm not sure its entirely the starchy carbs problem. Thank you for the response.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

Thanks for the response by the away.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

I've had a pretty bad reaction to butter every time I've eaten it lately. Pain digestive distress. (Didn't start out that way, when I first went paleo.) Coconut oil sits fine though. I mostly have cut out nightshades as well since I think I do better without them. I may try reintroducing them, since not doing FODMAPs and no nightshades seems to leave a very limited selection of vegetables. I often still feel hungry after feeling stuffed, maybe its simply not enough calories?

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 01:55 AM

And thank you for the response by the way.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 01:54 AM

I sadly do not know my CRP level. I think its time for me to get some blood work done.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Its been varying between chicken, beef, and pork mainly. I guess more chicken than the others. I can try going with more beef to see how I fill. The additional fat would also take into consideration some of the other answers. I'll get a thyroid test done as well. I've wondered about it before, so I might as well get it tested.

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on March 05, 2012
at 12:00 AM

Bam. This. Hypothyroid is exactly what came to mind when I read down the list.

9e678f5a6119e0937a4087faccbba263

(115)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:55 PM

Chelate is a great form, this is fine for absorption. Good, I think the answer will be in your blood work results :)

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:30 PM

Try cutting out the sulphur veggies. When I have a sulphur allergy, skin is red all over. Ex-Vegans may have a lot of inflammation still. Do you know your CRP?

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Also I'll definitely see if I can get the hormonal blood work done.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Thanks for your response. If I understand, the main components of a ZMA formula are a zinc chelate, magnesium chelate, and vitamin b6? Does the monomethionine aspartate form add anything to the supplementation that you know of, or do you think general chelates would work? (I already have a magnesium chelate, and just invested in a zinc chelate, so I don't want to spend the extra money if its unnecessary.) I've been thinking about getting extra D3, so I'll probably add that in. I'll look into the testosterone boosters as well.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:22 PM

Haha, that would probably help. Thanks! Male 6' 7" 225 lbs

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:10 PM

Are you male/female? Height/weight?

  • E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

    asked by

    (730)
  • Views
    4.9K
  • Last Activity
    1278D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

4 Answers

best answer

2
9e678f5a6119e0937a4087faccbba263

(115)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:10 PM

I sense hormonal issues, I would have some blood work done to see if there is any imbalance. There could be an issue with your testosterone levels from lack of meat in the passed or too much SHBG, this is a total guess though.

Add ZMA and 5000iu Vitamin D3 to your supplementation and see if this has any positive impact. Also, maybe a strong testosterone booster like Chaparral Labs Manimal and Animal Stak, both work differently to increase testosterone and other growth factors to normal levels.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Thanks for your response. If I understand, the main components of a ZMA formula are a zinc chelate, magnesium chelate, and vitamin b6? Does the monomethionine aspartate form add anything to the supplementation that you know of, or do you think general chelates would work? (I already have a magnesium chelate, and just invested in a zinc chelate, so I don't want to spend the extra money if its unnecessary.) I've been thinking about getting extra D3, so I'll probably add that in. I'll look into the testosterone boosters as well.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Also I'll definitely see if I can get the hormonal blood work done.

9e678f5a6119e0937a4087faccbba263

(115)

on March 04, 2012
at 09:55 PM

Chelate is a great form, this is fine for absorption. Good, I think the answer will be in your blood work results :)

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 07, 2012
at 02:50 AM

You were right. Its the testosterone. The lower calcium level combined with low testosterone may indicate low vitamin D. That is my first guess.

4
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 04, 2012
at 09:52 PM

"I would bet money I exceed 10 cups of vegetables on average."

Yeah, most people here don't eat that many vegetables. If you want to lose weight, that much is great because it makes you feel pretty full. But you probably don't need that. You are not overweight or someone with a potentially crippling autoimmune disease like Terry. You are probably not getting enough calories and for some people those vegetables irritate the gut (google FODMAPs). In fact, I'd say they have more of a potential to do that than something like butterfat. If you want to feel young, sexy, and energetic, I'd say you are going to have to up the fruit or the fat (butter works great, but coconut if you are still wanting to be strict for some reason) or both. I've been on a diet like yours and I had absolutely no energy either, but I have more than enough now that I'm on a higher fat higher carb diet with less non-starchy vegetable matter.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

Thanks for the response by the away.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

I've had a pretty bad reaction to butter every time I've eaten it lately. Pain digestive distress. (Didn't start out that way, when I first went paleo.) Coconut oil sits fine though. I mostly have cut out nightshades as well since I think I do better without them. I may try reintroducing them, since not doing FODMAPs and no nightshades seems to leave a very limited selection of vegetables. I often still feel hungry after feeling stuffed, maybe its simply not enough calories?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 05, 2012
at 02:17 AM

You don't need *that* many vegetables, remember they can crowd out things with calories. ANd you need calories to have a libido. Lots of calories. If you are eating vegetables, make sure to cook them in A LOT of fat or use a fatty salad dressing.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Actually after thinking about it, I don't see why I can't add nightshades back in. I removed them mainly because I thought they were causing the muscle discomfort, but as that is still an issue, it probably wasn't them. Joy! I missed my bell peppers.

4
9b47142b8ed1074a94b5654410740530

on March 04, 2012
at 09:48 PM

Sounds like thyroid problems to me. Keratosis Pilaris is a marker of hypothyroidism. Tiredness, low libido, muscle weakness, general bleh-ness are all low thyroid symptoms. Hashimoto's in particular. Could be that you threw your body out became of balance with the vegetarianism. Especially if you were eating a high carb/gluten diet.

If that's the case, you're on the right diet for it now. The only thing I would ask is how is your omega3/omega6 ratio? The meat you're eating? Is it fish and beef, or are you eating a lot of chicken? Chicken's not as good for you as people claim. It's got a high omega6 content.

You also might want to see a Dr. and ask for a thyoid test, just so you know what you're dealing with.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Its been varying between chicken, beef, and pork mainly. I guess more chicken than the others. I can try going with more beef to see how I fill. The additional fat would also take into consideration some of the other answers. I'll get a thyroid test done as well. I've wondered about it before, so I might as well get it tested.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 01:55 AM

And thank you for the response by the way.

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on March 05, 2012
at 12:00 AM

Bam. This. Hypothyroid is exactly what came to mind when I read down the list.

2
0faecc3397025eab246241f4dcd81f5e

(2361)

on March 04, 2012
at 10:22 PM

Increase your carbohydrates. All of these symptoms are typical when people drop carbs too low and force body into gluconeogenesis. And increased cortisol levels. Eat at least 150 grams of starchy carbs day - do not count the non starch carbs as a carb source. Try white rice, white potato, not just post workout but at other meals as well.

This would mean about 4 cups minimum starch carbs. 1 cup rice has 45 grams carbs, cup of potato about 35 grams carbs. 1 banana, 30 grams carbs

Best amount of carbs to try is 1 gram per pound body weight. Your protein amount in fine, you might feel better with a bit more added fat, like coconut oil as well.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 05, 2012
at 02:01 AM

The symptoms were present as well when I was eating something like 2lbs of sweet potatoes a day. So I'm not sure its entirely the starchy carbs problem. Thank you for the response.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!