2

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Whats a pure fat that has balanced sat/mono/poly ratios (1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is ideal)?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 09, 2012 at 5:50 AM

Anyone got any suggestions for a fat for cooking that has balanced sat/mono/polys (1/3, 1/3, 1/3) and balanced omegas as well (2:1 omega 6 to 3)?

(or at least something with roughly even mono/sat proportions, and semi-reasonable omega balance, so I can round it out with something else heavier on the omega-3s/polys) .

Butter or coconut oil is too high in that sats, and lacking in the mono's/polys for me personally - and fish oil , well its very balanced but too expensive to cook with, plus hardly ideal to cook with - yuck!

Duck fat......sadly omega 6 to 3 ratio with duckfat is very poor (12:1) :/ (otherwise its close, though low in polys)

We are supposed to get a ratio of 2:1 omega 6 to 3, so thats a little out to be using as a standard staple..

. . .

.

.

Would be just great to get a perfectly balanced fat for regular intake...(specially if I am to reach the target of it being 45-55 of my caloric intake)

I am not worried about saturated fat being dangerous or whatever, I am just trying to emulate the proportions of different fats in wild animals, which to me makes sense...

.

Also what are thoughts on flaxseed oil? Healthy or not? And why?

Its got high polys, and high omega 3:6 ratio (4:1), and could be used to even something out (like a meat fat) that was mostly mono's and saturateds, and unbalanced omega wise...

Would seem like using that with mixed with goose fat, butter or beef tallow might be roughly right...maybe a little low in the monos (maybe could add in some olive oil lol)

I hope I dont need to blend too many fats or oils to get something with a similar portion of sats/monos and polys and omegas to wild meat!!

Also would make most sense if the fat was primarily meat based (seeing as thats what I am trying to emulate, and a broad spectrum of fatty acids would seem most healthful). Just dont like the idea of using plant oils, and plus, I do want a broad spectrum of fatty acids, meats tend to be broad, plants thin...

This is a perplexing problem, emulating the fat profile of wild game (of course I will try and eat more wild game!)...any help will be hugely appreciated....

I just want the fat I am piling in, to be balanced like most wild game.....

Calling all nutritional paleo experts!

(I know these arent all paleo foods per se, but its paleo matched nutrition I am after)

Thanks!

PS/TLDR -

I want to know how to up my fat intake, without using proportion unbalanced stuff like beef tallow, or butter, or coconut oil (all mainly sat fats), or more balanced fats like duck or chicken fat that have excess omega 6s -

I want my profile to be roughly like wild animals profile (1/3, 1/3, 1/3), and still be well up from the only 35% or so fat I am managing to get in so far even with a fair few fatty cuts (my diet is far too protein heavy IMO, i want to reach 45-55^ caloric intake of fat).

Id prefer not to add anything processed if possible. Any ideas or suggestions welcome..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 10, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Oh, africa, tropics. Guess I was getting mixed up with tropical islands and such, which are very wet, rather than hot and dry.

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 07:37 AM

The theory that all humans adapted to very cold climate is a myth and it is based on ignoring communities living in the tropics. The maasai are the exception, and there is plenty of evidence that they migrated from northern climates.

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 07:32 AM

I guess you don't believe in the Out of Africa theory, that we emigrated from Africa around 60-70Kya. Why do you think we have so few hairs and so high sweat glands? In addition to the OutOfAfrica theory check out research about Turkana Basin, thought to be the cradle of humanity. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/07/1001824107.abstract

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Oh, and you beleive humans evovled in the tropics? Can you direct me to a link which espouses this theory, so I can look into it? Sounds interesting...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:40 AM

"MUFA are liquid while SFA are solid, this I think is why we need them equivalent proportion." This is a pretty damn unscientific guess and probably nonsense, but wouldnt it be better to have less clumpy solids running around in your veins? Pure SFA is hard, clumpy, waxy, whereas fat with a mix of both portions is soft, gelatine like. Just a thought....? *shrugs*

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:38 AM

"SFA can be converted to MUFA in the body. So even if you eat more SFA, it can get converted to MUFA." I heard, indirectly that SFA are more likely to be autostored that MUFA...not sure if its true...I am only basing this on natural occurance, not really nutrional science.. "It may be a bigger problem if you get more MUFA than required." Why? I heard (not researched) higher MUFA has some associated health benefits (obviously too much of anything can be bad)

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 01:46 AM

Yes they would try to trap birds, but realistically how big a part of diet would be birds. Animals are much easier to catch. And I think major part of the diet was vegetables and fruits, in the tropics, where humans evolved.

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 01:43 AM

I don't see why the body would need equal SFA/MUFA. IMO they are equivalent. SFA can be converted to MUFA in the body. So even if you eat more SFA, it can get converted to MUFA. It may be a bigger problem if you get more MUFA than required. MUFA are liquid while SFA are solid, this I think is why we need them equivalent proportion. But this is only true for storage, and normally you wouldn't store much.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:39 AM

Oh, and I have revised this 3 equal amounts things BTW. It might be different portions to beef and seperated fats, but its not exactly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. There is generally more PUFA than beef/fats but the ALA isnt bioavailable much anyway. Then main thing ive decided, is a roughly even MUFA/sat fat proportion being even and perhaps eating a few fish a week....... As to where I came up with idea, I have just now explained that above. Basically by looking at the fat distributions of wild meats, and comparing that to beef/seperated fats that people in paleo often use to boost their fat intake..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:28 AM

"Isn't it easier to just by wild game meat?" .......Perhaps in some ways yes. I will try and get more game meat. I am poor, and it is a distance without a car to a butcher than has game, but it is something i intend to eat more of regardless. But in all honesty, all these answers even the "WTF" ones have helped me get my thoughts together on balancing monos versus sats...so thanks everyone! :D

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:23 AM

I guess what I can take away from that is not to add much seperated fats, or use much oil, and try to eat a much more varied diet than one using mostly beef.to avoid maxing the sats. lamb is a farm animal with a good mix of mono versus sat, and reasonably cool omega ratios....as an example.....which is what some of your answers have alluded to, and for that I thank you for taking the time to answer!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:19 AM

Heres some of those types of things: http://skipthepie.org/dairy-and-egg-products/butter-salted/ http://skipthepie.org/beef-products/beef-grass-fed-ground-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/fats-and-oils/fat-beef-tallow/

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:18 AM

They may not be 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, but they are higher in monos and often higher in polys at least compared to farm beef, and especially to the likes of coconut oil, butter, tallow, animal fat etc, that paleo folks often add to up their fat levels...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:17 AM

Heres a random lot of wild game: http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-boar-wild-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-deer-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-rabbit-wild-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-squirrel-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/finfish-and-shellfish-products/fish-cod-atlantic-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/poultry-products/chicken-cornish-game-hens-meat-only-raw/

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:15 AM

Heres a random lot of wild game: http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-boar-wild-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-deer-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-rabbit-wild-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/lamb-veal-and-game-products/game-meat-squirrel-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/finfish-and-shellfish-products/fish-cod-atlantic-raw/ http://skipthepie.org/poultry-products/chicken-cornish-game-hens-meat-only-raw/ They may not be 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, but they are higher in monos and often higher in polys

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:13 AM

Because everyone is wondering where the heck I got this idea from, well I was looking mainly at the fact that the modern diet, and farm animals like beef, are higher in sat fat compared to other fats. Then I started looking at wild animal nutritional profiles and I saw what they meant...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:07 AM

You know thats probably about right fat wise and everything else. I wouldnt crumb but that gives me a rough idea. Thanks...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:04 AM

Some good info in there. Thanks. As a side note, I beleive archeologists have found lots of evidence of trapping, particularly birds...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:01 AM

Well, your right, the level of polys in wild meat is probably generally lower than 1/3, and the number 1/3 probably isnt exactly right either.... and ala isnt very bioavailable anyway. However, the main thing I am after is a more balanced monounsaturated versus saturated fat content, whether its 1/3 or whatever

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 09, 2012
at 11:52 PM

Amanda - according to looking at the nutrional data of game meats, the proportion is _approximately_ 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Sometimes its a little lower on the polys. Not that it really matters, the main thing I am after is a more balanced ratio of monounsaturated versus saturated..(As you point out, ala isnt very bioavailable anyway, only 10%, fish omegas are better)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 04:25 PM

Yes, like Amanda says, the ratios are a bit weird. It also looks like you're trying to recreating natural food by using processed ingredients (oils), and that confuses me a bit. Isn't it easier to just by wild game meat?

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Firestorm, nom nom nom! Now that's a meal.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:36 PM

If you're going to use the fat in "paleo baking" (sorry, not a fan of candy cigarettes), the bigger issue may be the fat content of the flour.

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:34 PM

First Meal (one of two meals on the weekend): 4 oz wild-caught salmon, steamed with lemon juice and crumbled 3 whole pasture eggs 5 chopped French green olives 3 cups spinach Beat egg and pour over other ingredients in a parchment-lined baking dish. Bake for 30-45 minutes, until a knife inserted in the center comes out clean. Top with chopped avocado and serve. (makes 2 servings -- the omelet portion can be popped in the fridge for another meal if you don't have anyone to share with).

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:21 PM

Wild game did not have 1/3rd of their fat as polyunsaturated. You want to minimize the amount of polyunsaturated fat in your diet. The Omega 3s in flax seed are not bioavailable, at least not as much as seafood.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:17 PM

Certainly my protein intake is too high and fats too low, and I am not sure how to add to that fat intake, without just relying on sat fat heavy stuff like butter, beef, animal fat etc, and some of that stuff is omega 6 high .... I am new to this. How do _you_ add fat into with our messing up your natural wild animal-like fat proportions? How do you emulate wild food nutritional profiles without hunting for everything or just buying game?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:13 PM

Like what? I am trying to roughly emulate a proportion of fats that our anscestors ate, for the sole reason that this is roughly what wild meat is like (1/3, 1/3, 1/3)...whats wrong with that?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Well thats a pretty well rounded answer. Your general point seems wise - Added fat seems to be a bit of an issue so Ill use more baking... PS i dont want to balance every meal. I just want my overall levels 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Not religiously, just roughly. Which isnt what _some_ other paleo eaters seem to do, they seem to get extra fats by adding sat fats in... Just to give me an idea - how would you get 45%-55% fat in calories, not just mainly saturated fat or added fat/milk, in a single meal...? I _am_ new to this... Thanks for your help :)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:19 AM

There's so much wrong with this question :D!

  • Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

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3 Answers

best answer

9
Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:49 PM

I don't know, dear... it seems to me that you're making this far more difficult than it needs to be. Here's my opinion on the whole 'fat selection and optimization issue' broken down into simple, attainable steps.

Use a variety of fat sources -- grass fed animal fat from meat or grass-fed ghee or butter; coconut oil; red palm oil occasionally; olive oil for cold-use (salad dressings, etc.); macadamia nut oil the same way.

Use animal fats, coconut, or red palm oil for cooking -- they're the most heat-stable.

Mix things up, change them up, and don't get all hung up on one fat for all purposes -- learn to enjoy both the different flavor profiles and the different favored uses to get the most out of the fat you eat.

choose lean meats and use healthy fats like coconut oil to cook in if you have to purchase feedlot meats, but choose fatty meats and cook in their own fat if you're buying grass-fed meats.

Choose things like wild-caught small fish and wild-caught salmon to round out your fat profile.

It's entirely possible to eat 45-55% of your day's calories from fat and not add a single drop of added oil, so in my mind, the important thing is a well-rounded diet with a healthy amount of variety over the course of a day/week/month/year... and that doesn't mean you can't eat the same repeating meals... it just means that if you're going to do that, you need to cover a broad spectrum of foods in those meals (lots of colors, textures, and flavors).

Use spices -- they'll balance and bring joy, and those two features make them worth learning to use them and the cost of maintaining an expansive spice cabinet.

IMO, you don't need a perfect balance at every meal, or even every day -- but over TIME, you'll find that if you choose broadly from healthy foods, your overall ratios will reflect the changes you've made in healthy ways.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:07 AM

You know thats probably about right fat wise and everything else. I wouldnt crumb but that gives me a rough idea. Thanks...

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Firestorm, nom nom nom! Now that's a meal.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:36 PM

If you're going to use the fat in "paleo baking" (sorry, not a fan of candy cigarettes), the bigger issue may be the fat content of the flour.

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:34 PM

First Meal (one of two meals on the weekend): 4 oz wild-caught salmon, steamed with lemon juice and crumbled 3 whole pasture eggs 5 chopped French green olives 3 cups spinach Beat egg and pour over other ingredients in a parchment-lined baking dish. Bake for 30-45 minutes, until a knife inserted in the center comes out clean. Top with chopped avocado and serve. (makes 2 servings -- the omelet portion can be popped in the fridge for another meal if you don't have anyone to share with).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 09, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Well thats a pretty well rounded answer. Your general point seems wise - Added fat seems to be a bit of an issue so Ill use more baking... PS i dont want to balance every meal. I just want my overall levels 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Not religiously, just roughly. Which isnt what _some_ other paleo eaters seem to do, they seem to get extra fats by adding sat fats in... Just to give me an idea - how would you get 45%-55% fat in calories, not just mainly saturated fat or added fat/milk, in a single meal...? I _am_ new to this... Thanks for your help :)

5
2c2349bc7af0fedb59a5fe99dac9fae2

(2707)

on June 09, 2012
at 04:01 PM

This is why we try to eat a well balanced clean diet. Don't worry so much about finding the perfect/magic food item. This thinking is what leads us down the rabbit hole of nutritionism reductionist thinking. Instead of focusing so much on the individual nutrients that make a food good for you, worry about eating whole foods.

That's not to say we dont care about nutrients, but in this case, eat food that contians healthy fats. Some of these will have more saturated fat (beef, butter, most animal fats), others mono (avocado, olives), and then fish for omega 3 (poly's).

Eat a good balance of these and you will be fine.

3
34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 09, 2012
at 05:28 PM

The problem with PUFA is that it is tough to use as energy. It is mostly used as signalling, due to its unstable nature. Also you need plenty of Vit E along with PUFA to keep it safe. Ideally you should not have it more than 4% by energy. Occasionally it may be ok to go above. Humans would not have had a lot of birds for food. And most coastal people eat very little fish, and eat a lot of coconuts. Inuits being an exception, but they had trouble with their high O3 consumption.

MUFA and SFA are interchangeable, and both can be used for energy. There is some benefit to having more SFA as short chain and Medium Chain Fatty acids, as these help in other ways, besides providing energy.

Animals fats are useful because they provide Vit A and K2. Plant fats provide Vit E.

The best is to have a mix of Coconut oil and Butter, as both are high in short and medium chain fatty acids, and provide a mix of plant and animal vitamins. Generally fats from Ruminants are preferred because they are low in PUFA.

I am not sure where you got the idea that all 3 of them should be in equal proportion, because that recommendation is not grounded in science. Paleo is not a re-enactment. It is trying to use science (from biochemistry, archaeology, history, experimentation) to determine the best diet for humans.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:04 AM

Some good info in there. Thanks. As a side note, I beleive archeologists have found lots of evidence of trapping, particularly birds...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:38 AM

"SFA can be converted to MUFA in the body. So even if you eat more SFA, it can get converted to MUFA." I heard, indirectly that SFA are more likely to be autostored that MUFA...not sure if its true...I am only basing this on natural occurance, not really nutrional science.. "It may be a bigger problem if you get more MUFA than required." Why? I heard (not researched) higher MUFA has some associated health benefits (obviously too much of anything can be bad)

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 07:37 AM

The theory that all humans adapted to very cold climate is a myth and it is based on ignoring communities living in the tropics. The maasai are the exception, and there is plenty of evidence that they migrated from northern climates.

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 07:32 AM

I guess you don't believe in the Out of Africa theory, that we emigrated from Africa around 60-70Kya. Why do you think we have so few hairs and so high sweat glands? In addition to the OutOfAfrica theory check out research about Turkana Basin, thought to be the cradle of humanity. http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/07/1001824107.abstract

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 01:46 AM

Yes they would try to trap birds, but realistically how big a part of diet would be birds. Animals are much easier to catch. And I think major part of the diet was vegetables and fruits, in the tropics, where humans evolved.

34cf7065a6c94062c711eb16c0f6adc3

on June 10, 2012
at 01:43 AM

I don't see why the body would need equal SFA/MUFA. IMO they are equivalent. SFA can be converted to MUFA in the body. So even if you eat more SFA, it can get converted to MUFA. It may be a bigger problem if you get more MUFA than required. MUFA are liquid while SFA are solid, this I think is why we need them equivalent proportion. But this is only true for storage, and normally you wouldn't store much.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 10, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Oh, africa, tropics. Guess I was getting mixed up with tropical islands and such, which are very wet, rather than hot and dry.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:40 AM

"MUFA are liquid while SFA are solid, this I think is why we need them equivalent proportion." This is a pretty damn unscientific guess and probably nonsense, but wouldnt it be better to have less clumpy solids running around in your veins? Pure SFA is hard, clumpy, waxy, whereas fat with a mix of both portions is soft, gelatine like. Just a thought....? *shrugs*

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Oh, and you beleive humans evovled in the tropics? Can you direct me to a link which espouses this theory, so I can look into it? Sounds interesting...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 10, 2012
at 12:39 AM

Oh, and I have revised this 3 equal amounts things BTW. It might be different portions to beef and seperated fats, but its not exactly 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. There is generally more PUFA than beef/fats but the ALA isnt bioavailable much anyway. Then main thing ive decided, is a roughly even MUFA/sat fat proportion being even and perhaps eating a few fish a week....... As to where I came up with idea, I have just now explained that above. Basically by looking at the fat distributions of wild meats, and comparing that to beef/seperated fats that people in paleo often use to boost their fat intake..

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