3

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What happens to oxaloacetate production on a paleo diet?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 16, 2010 at 5:09 AM

Oxaloacetate is needed for the Krebs cycle to continue, the non-ketogenic pathway to burn fat. I sort of recall that glucose is needed for oxaloacetate production.

Other than ketone production, how does the body adapt in order to keep Krebs running? This would be the primary fuel burning pathway in most paleo diets, but I'm not sure how it works, and if it is possible or beneficial to do things to optimize it.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Umm... Hiss?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:27 PM

Mickey, you have stumbled into a pit of vipers. The only antivenom is legitimate science. Care to elaborate on why dietary carbs are needed, or why ketone bodies are bad? I haven't seen this evidence.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:12 PM

Yup, it's called gluconeogenesis.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:09 PM

Ketones are not a "failsafe", they are a cleaner (less ROS producing), more efficient fuel that is actually required by certain body parts, just as glucose is required for others.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:09 PM

Ketones are not a "failsafe", they are a cleaner (less ROS producing), more efficient fuel that is actually required by certian body parts, just as glucose is required for others.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:08 PM

It's plain false to say you need dietary carbohydrate. The body hums along just fine producing its own glucose. In fact, letting the body decide exactly when and how much results in more stable blood sugar, and is arguably LESS stressful.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:02 PM

You actually technically *don't* need them... dietary carbohydrate that is. And haven't we gotten over the whole protein leaching calcium thing??? And why mostly plants? Favor food that is defenseless when dead (to some extent).

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 10, 2011
at 05:59 PM

Wow. All of us who've been thriving on zero carb for years are in for a nasty shock one of these days, I guess...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 16, 2010
at 04:51 PM

Thanks Will. I have tons of questions about fuel utilization preferences when calories are below maintenance, but will form it into a more cogent question later.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 16, 2010
at 04:50 PM

Thanks Will. I have tons of questions about fuel utilization preferences when calories and under maintenance, but will form it into a more cogent question later.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 16, 2010
at 09:35 AM

It's standard SAD medical... Lipid hypothesis nonsense based reasoning... Plus... It's on wikipedia...

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4 Answers

best answer

8
F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on September 16, 2010
at 06:15 AM

Oxaloacetate is both a gluconeogenesis and Krebs cycle intermediary. When the liver needs to synthesize glucose, it pulls oxaloacetate out of the Krebs cycle, resulting in increased hepatic acetyl-CoA. This buildup of acetyl-CoA triggers the production of ketone bodies. All of this occurs in the liver: non-hepatic cells are still using their oxaloacetate in their Krebs cycle, in addition to generating acetyl-CoA directly from ketone bodies.

Oxaloacetate can be produced from glucose via pyruvate, and glucogenic (which is most) amino acids are metabolized into various Krebs cycle intermediaries, which either are or can be turned into oxaloacetate.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 16, 2010
at 04:50 PM

Thanks Will. I have tons of questions about fuel utilization preferences when calories and under maintenance, but will form it into a more cogent question later.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on September 16, 2010
at 04:51 PM

Thanks Will. I have tons of questions about fuel utilization preferences when calories are below maintenance, but will form it into a more cogent question later.

0
2fd2b2346da1afd4cea4de40ed8480a0

(106)

on September 16, 2010
at 05:31 AM

I read somewhere that humans can actually take certain amino acids and synthesize them into glucose.

From Wikipedia: Carbohydrates are not essential nutrients in humans: the body can obtain all its energy from protein and fats[10][11]. The brain and neurons generally cannot burn fat for energy, but can use glucose or ketones; the body can also synthesize some glucose from a few of the amino acids in protein and also from the glycerol backbone in triglycerides.

So there you go, we don't need any dietary sugars to survive :) But then the next section says: Based on the effects on risk of heart disease and obesity, the Institute of Medicine recommends that American and Canadian adults get between 45–65% of dietary energy from carbohydrates.[12] The Food and Agriculture Organization and World Health Organization jointly recommend that national dietary guidelines set a goal of 55–75% of total energy from carbohydrates, but only 10% directly from sugars (their term for simple carbohydrates).

So someone explain that to me lol

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on September 16, 2010
at 09:35 AM

It's standard SAD medical... Lipid hypothesis nonsense based reasoning... Plus... It's on wikipedia...

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:12 PM

Yup, it's called gluconeogenesis.

-1
1463fd52214fc41255f19750821d05b8

on August 03, 2013
at 03:47 AM

you can always use an OAA supplement and the best is Endure DX by Natural Dynamix http://www.naturaldynamix.com/sports-nutritional/endure-dx/

-1
92c5b57ae13d1a6c7e93292f0e1f1077

on August 10, 2011
at 05:55 PM

Carbohydrates are a MACRO nutrient! Yes you do need them. The problem with getting intermediates from glucogenic amino acids is the amine group. Once its shaved off the carbon backbone, the body has to contend with the by-product ammonia which is toxic. That ammonia has to then be converted to urea so you don't die.

The body builder notion of "clean eating" and an over reliance on protein is silly and without foundation. It's not clean. If your body is going to make the glucose anyway, why not just eat the carbohydrates in the first place and avoid the ammonia waste and the strain on your kidneys? Why do you think you have to drink so much water when you eat a high protein diet?

The brain gets testy when it doesn't have enough glucose. Ketone bodies are only a fail safe to keep the brain fueled when glucose is scarce. Also an over reliance on protein leaches calcium from the body.

People get fat when they consume more calories than they burn. Not because of the consumption of carbohydrates.

You want to be healthy and fit, follow Michael Pollen's simple mantra, "eat food, mostly plants, not so much.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 10, 2011
at 05:59 PM

Wow. All of us who've been thriving on zero carb for years are in for a nasty shock one of these days, I guess...

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:09 PM

Ketones are not a "failsafe", they are a cleaner (less ROS producing), more efficient fuel that is actually required by certian body parts, just as glucose is required for others.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:02 PM

You actually technically *don't* need them... dietary carbohydrate that is. And haven't we gotten over the whole protein leaching calcium thing??? And why mostly plants? Favor food that is defenseless when dead (to some extent).

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:08 PM

It's plain false to say you need dietary carbohydrate. The body hums along just fine producing its own glucose. In fact, letting the body decide exactly when and how much results in more stable blood sugar, and is arguably LESS stressful.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Umm... Hiss?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:09 PM

Ketones are not a "failsafe", they are a cleaner (less ROS producing), more efficient fuel that is actually required by certain body parts, just as glucose is required for others.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 10, 2011
at 06:27 PM

Mickey, you have stumbled into a pit of vipers. The only antivenom is legitimate science. Care to elaborate on why dietary carbs are needed, or why ketone bodies are bad? I haven't seen this evidence.

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