1

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So fat doesn't cause fat gain... Even visceral fat gain?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 08, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Sorry, I'm aware a few people got confused at my question, please excuse me as I was half asleep when writing it :P Edited now

I've learned on Paleo that most fat is good, and that it doesn't make you put weight on the outside, but could someone tell me whether it affects you on the inside or not? I think I'm still almost stuck in that mindset that fat is terrible for your organs... I have this picture in my head of fat collecting around my heart as I eat :P It's just something that's got me thinking, in my naivety :) Thanks all!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:24 AM

That study looks interesting, but I dont feel much like reading it at the mo. Could u summerize what it says about fat distribution breifly?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:23 AM

I am not sure what you are saying in regard to visceral fat versus subcutaneous? I am not saying you cant get fat eating loads of fat, or glucose. I am just saying that fructose and fructose from sugar tends to get stored differently than glucose, probably because of liver load, cause its what I read in a study.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:32 AM

No seriously this made me think. High purines (meat or fish) + low carb, does seem to logically be a risk (more uric acid in, less out). Hard to say how much of a risk versus fructose/booze, of if people tend to be overweight and have metabolic syndrome, but its made me consider increasing my carbs to about 100 grams a day with a bit of root veg to stay non-ketogenic.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:18 AM

@Efaitch: TY for the correction. I learned something :-)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:42 PM

OK Jamie, I'll just pin it on the evil protein/fat complex ;) Seriously this might only be important among obese dairy farmers. Gout is also more common among middle aged and older and not young fit paleos carefully watching their food. Stones can occur at any age though, and as I recall are formed from cholesterol.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:26 PM

Even a high purine diet seems like a minor factor...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Fat itself seems to have nothing to do with it.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Wiki says this on hyperuricemia: "genetics, insulin resistance, hypertension, renal insufficiency, obesity, diet, use of diuretics, and consumption of alcoholic beverages.[2] Of these, alcohol consumption is the most important". It would seem that alcohol consumption is the biggest bad guy, followed by metabolic syndrome. However "A ketogenic diet impairs the ability of the kidney to excrete uric acid, due to competition for transport between uric acid and ketones.". Seems like increased uric acid might occur if your too low in carbs...more to do with low carb than high protein foods.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:16 PM

Uric acid. I forgot about kidney and gall stones.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:13 PM

Melissa has mentioned the evidence of high gout among US farmers. Paleo can take many shapes and forms. I don't think a diet based on fatty fish is in the same category as one high in the farm products eggs, red meat and dairy products. The second diet points towards gout.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Interestingly on the gout thing, uric acid is a powerful anti-oxidant. Having a bit more has some advantages, whether or not it actually causes gout or there is some other mechanism. It might be interesting to understand it a bit better...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:10 PM

I am personally low carb, but id be interested in any evidence that suggests a high fat diet/moderate carb diet is more prone to not be burned than a moderate fat/high carb/sugar diet. I have at least read research that suggest that carb limitation is more effective for weight loss than fat limitation (not that weight loss is my goal, i just like to be healthy and am curious).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Some macros and combinations might be slightly quicker to store though, but your not using it, it will become fat.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:02 PM

As for fat, thats just excess calories, doesnt matter if its complex carbs, sugar or fat, if its excess, your liver will store it somewhere.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Fructose definately causes a big rise in uric acid either way. And fish is higher in purines.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:00 PM

According to wikipedia - "Dietary causes account for about 12% of gout, and include a strong association with the consumption of alcohol, fructose-sweetened drinks, meat, and seafood" . Paleos eat purines in the form of protein foods (seafood is highest in purines), but they dont generally drink and generally moderate fructose and sucrose. I am not sure, from my lay understanding this would mean paleo would equal higher uric acid in the system. Uric acid is an anti-oxidant, I think your body if it doesnt need it as much to deal with fructose or alcohol, it would excrete it..?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:59 PM

Fat can make you fat but it does't have to. Next question.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:57 PM

Here's a typical C13 tracer study showing where dietary fat deposits. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/3/E547.full

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Any source of blood glucose will cause fat to deposit. And the main storage site for fat is the adipose not the liver. Finally, dietary fat has been marked and traced directly to adipose deposits. In the presence of excess carb calories today's butter becomes tomorrow's belly.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on July 08, 2012
at 09:50 AM

MRI scans show that skinny/slim people can often have more visceral fat than fatter people as the fat ones store it subcutaneously. Skinny fat? That's what it means.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on July 08, 2012
at 04:51 AM

That wasn't the question. I think the question is, is being a little fat a good thing, and I say, depends on who you are! I think there are many people whose bodies require more fat, just naturally, and it's not a bad thing.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Fat doesn't make you fat. Next question!

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5 Answers

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Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 04:31 AM

Fructose generated fat goes around your organs, because its liver heavy, according to a study I read, but glucose generated subcutaneous fat instead.

As I visualise it, the liver is the fat storage organ, so perhaps it stores fat in the organ when its overloaded or overwhelmed - so no, I dont imagine consumed fat becomes visceral fat unless your liver is compromised, you drink, or eat excess fructose etc.

I would think a paleo diet that isnt fruit heavy, or involves medications or alcohol is very good regarding visceral fat, high or low carb.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:57 PM

Here's a typical C13 tracer study showing where dietary fat deposits. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/3/E547.full

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Any source of blood glucose will cause fat to deposit. And the main storage site for fat is the adipose not the liver. Finally, dietary fat has been marked and traced directly to adipose deposits. In the presence of excess carb calories today's butter becomes tomorrow's belly.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:24 AM

That study looks interesting, but I dont feel much like reading it at the mo. Could u summerize what it says about fat distribution breifly?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:23 AM

I am not sure what you are saying in regard to visceral fat versus subcutaneous? I am not saying you cant get fat eating loads of fat, or glucose. I am just saying that fructose and fructose from sugar tends to get stored differently than glucose, probably because of liver load, cause its what I read in a study.

2
Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:45 PM

I can't understand why paleos cling to the simplistic mantra. Fat will make you fat. The main source of free fatty acids for fat-making is dietary fat. De novo lipogenesis is a curiosity and not the major pathway. The paleo way to this scenario is eating buttered sweet potatoes to excess. Try it and watch butterfat become body fat. No different from eating Little Debbies, which have similar macronutrient composition.

There is a caveat. Fat will not make you fat when the bloodstream is low on nutrients - low blood glucose. The fatty acids will be metabolized and not stored. Low carb or fasting create these conditions.

Besides the nasty fat-generating scenario of high fat/carb diet, a high fat diet has another downside. Gout.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:00 PM

According to wikipedia - "Dietary causes account for about 12% of gout, and include a strong association with the consumption of alcohol, fructose-sweetened drinks, meat, and seafood" . Paleos eat purines in the form of protein foods (seafood is highest in purines), but they dont generally drink and generally moderate fructose and sucrose. I am not sure, from my lay understanding this would mean paleo would equal higher uric acid in the system. Uric acid is an anti-oxidant, I think your body if it doesnt need it as much to deal with fructose or alcohol, it would excrete it..?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Fructose definately causes a big rise in uric acid either way. And fish is higher in purines.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:16 PM

Uric acid. I forgot about kidney and gall stones.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:42 PM

OK Jamie, I'll just pin it on the evil protein/fat complex ;) Seriously this might only be important among obese dairy farmers. Gout is also more common among middle aged and older and not young fit paleos carefully watching their food. Stones can occur at any age though, and as I recall are formed from cholesterol.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Some macros and combinations might be slightly quicker to store though, but your not using it, it will become fat.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Fat itself seems to have nothing to do with it.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:13 PM

Melissa has mentioned the evidence of high gout among US farmers. Paleo can take many shapes and forms. I don't think a diet based on fatty fish is in the same category as one high in the farm products eggs, red meat and dairy products. The second diet points towards gout.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Interestingly on the gout thing, uric acid is a powerful anti-oxidant. Having a bit more has some advantages, whether or not it actually causes gout or there is some other mechanism. It might be interesting to understand it a bit better...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Wiki says this on hyperuricemia: "genetics, insulin resistance, hypertension, renal insufficiency, obesity, diet, use of diuretics, and consumption of alcoholic beverages.[2] Of these, alcohol consumption is the most important". It would seem that alcohol consumption is the biggest bad guy, followed by metabolic syndrome. However "A ketogenic diet impairs the ability of the kidney to excrete uric acid, due to competition for transport between uric acid and ketones.". Seems like increased uric acid might occur if your too low in carbs...more to do with low carb than high protein foods.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:10 PM

I am personally low carb, but id be interested in any evidence that suggests a high fat diet/moderate carb diet is more prone to not be burned than a moderate fat/high carb/sugar diet. I have at least read research that suggest that carb limitation is more effective for weight loss than fat limitation (not that weight loss is my goal, i just like to be healthy and am curious).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:26 PM

Even a high purine diet seems like a minor factor...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 08, 2012
at 03:02 PM

As for fat, thats just excess calories, doesnt matter if its complex carbs, sugar or fat, if its excess, your liver will store it somewhere.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:32 AM

No seriously this made me think. High purines (meat or fish) + low carb, does seem to logically be a risk (more uric acid in, less out). Hard to say how much of a risk versus fructose/booze, of if people tend to be overweight and have metabolic syndrome, but its made me consider increasing my carbs to about 100 grams a day with a bit of root veg to stay non-ketogenic.

1
19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:40 AM

That wasn't the question. I think the question is, is being a little fat a good thing

That's what I thought you were asking when I read the title, but when I read the rest of the question it seemed you were asking "does eating fat make you fat?".

Alright, this is mostly based in observation in healthy country (mostly Paleo). So please no one bite me. I'm just trying to help answer the question, and while I'm fully aware my answer isn't perfect I still hope it's helpful ;-P

Young girls going through puberty, women trying to become pregnant, pregnant women, breastfeeding women -- these need have more body fat than the rest of the population. Grandmothers who already had lots of children will have plenty of body fat. It will mostly go away as they become elderly and emaciate.

In these cases is it a good thing, their body needs that fat. The young girl needs sufficient body fat before they'll menstruate. And if they were to look like a magazine covergirl, she'll probably stop having periods. Where I grew up girls were skinny and only started menstruating around 14 - 16 years old. The girls with more body fat got their first period earlier. (and, yes, I know you can be skinny and menstruate at an early age, but that's not the point here)

I might as well say "all women" need quite a bit of body fat, since they definitely need a lot more body fat than men. ^^

Babies and pre-school children and toddlers of both genders should have some chubbiness because they need lots of energy to grow up, but they lean out as they reach elementary school age.

Then like I said above, the girls need to start getting chubby again as they go through puberty, but the boys remain lean and muscular.

Please note that by "chubby" I don't mean overweight. I think when Americans think of "chubby" they think of a person who would be overweight, nearly obese, in my home country. For example, I as a girl (5'5" tall with very wide-boned shoulders/hips) wore European size 38/40 pants and I was considered VERY overweight. That's size 4-6 USA! O____O Now as a grown woman I wear a size 10. I'm thin by USA standards, but fat by Portugal standards ... and now I want to cry a little :P

USA 1930 family pictures

If you want to go by heaviness, the grandmothers who had lots of children themselves would be the ones with the most body fat, but they're still very strong and muscular women.

1
03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

on July 08, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Well, as you yourself said, "...it doesn't make you put on weight..." so if you are not gaining weight, then you are not gaining visceral fat.

Anyhow, I could be wrong, but I think you gain visceral fat after subcutaneous fat.

If you are worried about the fat increasing inflammation and putting plaque in your arteries, my doctor tells me that you can have your Homocysteine tested.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on July 08, 2012
at 09:50 AM

MRI scans show that skinny/slim people can often have more visceral fat than fatter people as the fat ones store it subcutaneously. Skinny fat? That's what it means.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:18 AM

@Efaitch: TY for the correction. I learned something :-)

0
77ac3cde4aedc8ea53d4bd280853a5f5

(0)

on July 08, 2012
at 04:14 AM

I'm rather naive and relatively uneducated myself at the moment but from what I've read today, you don't put weight on from fats if you're not eating processed crap. It's the chemicals and crap used in processed food that stops the system from processing fats correctly, basically slowing the metbolism down immensely...or something like that.

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