9

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Should carb refeed be with high fat or low fat to increase leptin levels/sensitivity?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 01, 2011 at 5:22 AM

My question pertains to carb refeeds in order to increase leptin levels/sensitivity. I've read that when doing a carb refeed after being VLC, is it necessary to avoid fats during the refeed. In other words, high carb, low-fat refeed. Is the low-fat advice legitimate or is it unnecessary for success? Any other advice regarding refeeds or increasing leptin sensitivity is welcome.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d

(3717)

on July 02, 2011
at 01:36 AM

I like the common sense approach. We often over-analyze our diets and eating trying to lock in "the" formula for success. This is a great answer.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Thanks Erik, sounds like low fat wins.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Excellent info, thank you Shari. Low fat it is.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:27 PM

Thanks Ben, I appreciate your answer.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 04:49 PM

Nice quote. I find some of Lyle's work a bit dubious but he's def not all bad. TKD and CKD works for many many in the bodybuilding, and even in strength oriented power liftin, world.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 04:47 PM

Thx all*blush*!Annie, I eat about 250g carbs daily so don't think I'm afraid of them; it's just that consuming one bolus of carbs at some random time while living LC all the other time has never really made sense to me is all. It very well may do something I could just never understand. I would just say eat carbohydrate regularly in small amounts perhaps. Or eat a bog chunk PWO and then that's it or something. I mean, if you've already lost your weight then I'd say ditch LC altogether. I'm no authority at all though. What works for you and makes you smile.

04f2eae4450112cdedce7235923c646d

(1112)

on July 01, 2011
at 03:44 PM

As far as I remember, the meals on workout days should be lower in fat than the meals on non-workout days, and vice versa regarding carbohydrate.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:55 PM

Thanks Lars, I will look at leangains again. I can't remember whether he mentions fat, but it's a great resource.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:55 PM

Ben, it sounds as if the refeed does not sound legit to you. I would truly appreciate an explanation because I am trying to decide whether to add carbs to my current VLC. Thank you.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:41 PM

I love well-explained answers. upvote!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:49 PM

Also the content is great. Simple and straightforward and I believe correct.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:47 PM

This is a great answer. Bold and italics - awesome - we need a ben style manual for everyone to follow.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:42 PM

i have no idea regarding leptin-sensitivity. If you add these carbohydrates that are supposedly going to refeed something in you on top of your current (which i suppose is your maintenance) calories you will of course add a energy-surplus that, if not used/burned, will generally be stored as fat.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:37 PM

Thanks Ben. But does it matter if I go higher on calories when I go high on carbs? In other words, is it essential for efficacy to avoid fat (or higher calories) when upping carbs for the purposes of leptin sensitivity?

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on July 01, 2011
at 06:44 AM

great question. i would also find this information useful, as i am still stubborn and too careful to up the carbs on rest days to fix sleep issues. when i normally work out around 5-6 pm and eat big pwo meal with a lot of carbs around 8 pm, i sleep like a baby. rest days are usually the days when i might still run into night wakings or difficulties falling asleep. i've been keeping rest days lower in carbs and higher in fat, so my next tweak would be probably to add a little bit of starch the last meal (or earlier?) on rest days....waiting for other comments and answers....

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5 Answers

best answer

7
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on July 01, 2011
at 03:08 PM

I really like Lyle McDonald's plans and his refeeds are definitely low fat. I agree with Ben that it's a calorie issue. However Lyle goes on to say

I???d note in this regards that my own Ultimate Diet 2.0 actually takes advantage of this to get a short-term sidestep of the energy balance equation: for about 24 hours following the 4 hard days of dieting/glycogen depletion, even in the face of massive carbohydrate intake, the body preferentially stores the incoming carbs as glycogen while using fatty acids for fuel (part of why fat intake has to be kept low during the carb-load). Folks may be at literally double maintenance caloric intake and still be losing fat. Magic? No, just good science. Ok, maybe a little magic.

Lyle recommends no more than 50g fat on high carb days. I was initially really bummed that I couldn't put a pound of butter on my potatos but it turned out to be a good thing as I wasn't as tempted to turn into an insane person and spend the whole day in the house shoveling buttery potatoes into my face. They still tasted good but a little less good than they might have had I not been limited in fat. A little Guyenet method at work maybe??

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 04:49 PM

Nice quote. I find some of Lyle's work a bit dubious but he's def not all bad. TKD and CKD works for many many in the bodybuilding, and even in strength oriented power liftin, world.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Excellent info, thank you Shari. Low fat it is.

6
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 12:03 PM

When people talk of lowering one???s fat intake while doing a carbohydrate re-feed it is only for the total caloric issue.

If you are used to eating LC and you???re doing, lets say, 2000 cals a day, but then one day you decide you???re going to eat a whole bunch of carbohydrate for this supposed re-feed you???re obviously adding a bunch of calories. Something???s gotta give, yknow?

The thinking is usually, well we don???t want to ditch protein so the only option is to ditch fat. So, its simply a numbers game: if you add one you must subtract the other, if you don???t want to add a bolus of calories (from what macronutrient, doesn???t matter).

Incidentally the exact same thinking pertains to all eating, across the board. The more glycolytic activity one is engaged in (sprinting, lifting, blah blah) the more carbohydrate-intake one usually shoots for. In these cases, the people generally eat a lower amount of fat. This is not fat-phobia mind you, this is simply understanding that a bolus of calories is a bolus of calories and if you want to avoid that you must lower your intake of something.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:37 PM

Thanks Ben. But does it matter if I go higher on calories when I go high on carbs? In other words, is it essential for efficacy to avoid fat (or higher calories) when upping carbs for the purposes of leptin sensitivity?

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d

(3717)

on July 02, 2011
at 01:36 AM

I like the common sense approach. We often over-analyze our diets and eating trying to lock in "the" formula for success. This is a great answer.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:42 PM

i have no idea regarding leptin-sensitivity. If you add these carbohydrates that are supposedly going to refeed something in you on top of your current (which i suppose is your maintenance) calories you will of course add a energy-surplus that, if not used/burned, will generally be stored as fat.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:47 PM

This is a great answer. Bold and italics - awesome - we need a ben style manual for everyone to follow.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:55 PM

Ben, it sounds as if the refeed does not sound legit to you. I would truly appreciate an explanation because I am trying to decide whether to add carbs to my current VLC. Thank you.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 01, 2011
at 01:49 PM

Also the content is great. Simple and straightforward and I believe correct.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:41 PM

I love well-explained answers. upvote!

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:27 PM

Thanks Ben, I appreciate your answer.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 01, 2011
at 04:47 PM

Thx all*blush*!Annie, I eat about 250g carbs daily so don't think I'm afraid of them; it's just that consuming one bolus of carbs at some random time while living LC all the other time has never really made sense to me is all. It very well may do something I could just never understand. I would just say eat carbohydrate regularly in small amounts perhaps. Or eat a bog chunk PWO and then that's it or something. I mean, if you've already lost your weight then I'd say ditch LC altogether. I'm no authority at all though. What works for you and makes you smile.

3
04f2eae4450112cdedce7235923c646d

(1112)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:36 PM

Leangains.com suggests over feeding on workout days and under feeding on rest days. Check it out. (writing on my cellphone, sorry for the short answer.)

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 02:55 PM

Thanks Lars, I will look at leangains again. I can't remember whether he mentions fat, but it's a great resource.

04f2eae4450112cdedce7235923c646d

(1112)

on July 01, 2011
at 03:44 PM

As far as I remember, the meals on workout days should be lower in fat than the meals on non-workout days, and vice versa regarding carbohydrate.

2
D5cde8031564f905260ce9aa7a1f5e2c

on July 01, 2011
at 03:27 PM

Low-fat is probably better. Overfeeding on fat does not increase leptin, while overfeeding on carbohydrate does.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11126336?ordinalpos=47&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"CHO OF, but not FAT OF, increases energy expenditure and leptin concentration."

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on July 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Thanks Erik, sounds like low fat wins.

0
41b1ec094d18d7bf67882413da63423a

on November 23, 2011
at 02:12 PM

Ben you have no idea what you are talking about. Please dont mislead people hear. If your on a low carb diet (20-80 grams of carbs a day) then calories are not a factor. Your thoughts on this subject are what most people think is correct, hence why 2/3 of Americans are fat. Bottom line is that its not as simple as calories in vs calories out.

Re-feeds are meant for people doing a Ketonic Cycle Diet. I have found this is actually one of the best diets to get Ripped and increase lean muscle. Simply do a low carb diet Monday-Sat. Then on Sunday began your re-feed. The re-feeds (eating 250+ carbs over a 24hr period Once a week) is meant to raise your leptin levels. Leptin levels will drastically decrease while low carbing. The first week or so you are doing a LC diet your Leptin levels will be normal, and you will experience rapid weight loss. (I lost 10 lbs in the first week of my LC diet). Once you exceed a week or so of starving your body of starch and carbs your leptin levels will drastically drop. Hence, your weight loss the following weeks will greatly be reduced. (Google leptin to get more info how this works)

The re-feeds of carbs will cause your body to create pre-diet leptin levels. Once you resume your LC diet, your body will shed weight just like it did in the first week.

Obvisouly there are some drawbacks with Re-feeds. You will gain some water weight back intially. You will have to poop all that crap out the next day. And if your like me, you will feel like hell the next day. Also, eating carbs makes you crave more carbs. So you must have disipline to resume your strict LC diet on Monday. I like to have the biggest and longest workouts of the week on Monday following a re-feed. I also use Sauna for 30 minutes to sweat out all the toxic sludge carbs create in your body.

I hope this helps the discussion. This diet is not for everyone. Im trying to get to under 6% body fat. For a casual dieter trying to loose 10 lbs, I would do something like the Zone Diet. But if your trying to get ripped, then look in to the Ketosis Cycle Diet (aka Low Carb all week and pig out on the Weekend Diet)

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