28

votes

Sex Hormone & Thyriod Debate... Carbs vs Fats

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 25, 2011 at 11:31 PM

There seems to be a massive debate in the paleo community about whether low carb diets or high carb diets are better for the thyroid.

Paul Jaminet has touched on this: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=4383

As has Danny Roddy http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/8/16/why-im-not-a-fan-of-high-fat-diets-part-i.html http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/8/22/why-im-not-a-fan-of-high-fat-diets-part-ii.html

Anthony Colpo also has replies that are linked in the Jaminet posts.

There are also several personal anectodes for both high fat and high carb increases libido, thyroid. Many of the carb ones tend to be from those who went low carb for awhile and found these things crashed. Many seem to be from those in the reproductive ages. Danny, myself, and some testimonies from Matt Stone's site ( http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2011/03/natural-testosterone-enhancement.html and here http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2011/06/paleo-fail.html ) Although not too sure how legit these anectodes are

We have anectodes for high fat here on paleo hacks.

So we've got both sides with postives and negatives, but we are still left with alot of questions. What works long term and what is optimal for long term? Does it change for age, genetics, dietary history?

This is what I posted on Paul's blog and explains why I think this topic is very important:

"It would be great if some long term low carbers could get their hormones tested and evaluted agaisnt their diet and activity level. I think that would shed some serious light on this issue. What we have is many younger paleos coming forth with these sex hormone and thyroid issues all of a sudden, and some of them seem to be fixing these with high carb paleo diets. On the other hand, I know much of the consensus of young people at AHS was that we were not impressed by the physiques of some of the older, long term low carb guru???s such as Cordain and Eades physiques. Sure, activity levels play a major role in leaness, but so do sex and thyroid hormones.

Personally, higher carbs seems to improve these things for me like Danny, but I dont have evidence for it yet. Fats also help, I definitely can???t be too low in these. But more fat doesn???t do it for me the way more carbs does.

That said, Jeff pointed out something that I;ve been on to for a while as well??? HDL and Testosterone are always postively correlated. Saturated Fats raise HDL, so higher fat should = higher T. But for some reason this isn???t the case for some? Also, Paul noted in his HDL post that higher potassium excretion was correlated with high HDL, so tubers such as potatoes and sweet potatoes, which are to my knowledge the highest dietary sources of potassium around, also should help HDL and testosterone and this is certainly true in my case going off of symptoms.

We have all these short term studies but no long ones. We have anectodes from both sides of the board, but what are the variables? Are these folks with good thyroid and sex hormones on high fat doing something different that those whose dropped arent? I think we will continue to have these questions until we really dig digger with the evidence we have in long term long carb dieters."

Not to call anyone out but I would like to add Fred Hahn to the long term low carbers who look like their thyroids might not be optimal... he has even reported a high LDL and hairloss online which is usually seen with hypothyroidism, as well as the red skin that Melissa has pointed out.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:22 AM

if not aerobic, def anaerobic (sprints) or weights.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on September 24, 2011
at 02:41 AM

Travis, would love a link for that.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on September 23, 2011
at 11:28 PM

i've tried papaya at least a dozen times because I want to like em. to me, they smell like barf. I just can't hack it.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 23, 2011
at 11:11 PM

Could I get a source on that Travis? I always thought there was abundant potassium in the flesh.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:49 PM

The potassium in sweet potatoes and normal potatoes is concentrated in the skin, which is toxic. It's better to try to get it from relatively low fructose fruits. Kiwis and papayas are at a good intersection between vitamin c, potassium and fructose.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:41 PM

And what about liver...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Fruit isn't available for entire year.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Fruit is seasonal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Last time I checked, fruit and honey were seasonal

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Not readily available like I said. And last time I heard, fruit and honey were seasonal.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:29 PM

"humans never had readily available simple sugars trough history" This is your opinion for all we know they had acess to tons of honey and fruit. Clearly you havn't been here for all of human history.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 26, 2011
at 07:41 AM

Really Bill? Many? And you base this opinion on????

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:38 AM

Many low carbers are actually NOT doing aerobic exercise.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:24 AM

To fully understand the mechanisms you need to intimately understand leptin receptor biochemistry. And I promise you its coming.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:23 AM

Leptin controls it all Bill......leptin is not just about weight loss. That is the biggest misnomer on this board. It controls everything. Without energy balance you are a cadaver. If its off a bit....your hormones are off a bit. It becomes a loss of efficiency issue.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:22 AM

Bill if you are confused you need to read up on this stuff. I cant convey clinical medicine over the internet. That is what a medical residency does. The written knowledge is easy to obtain in a text book......clinical medicine is an art with a scientists hand. You cant have normal sex steroids if leptin is not optimal The reason why is leptinRB neurons project directly onto Parvocellualr nucleus and are different in genders. I will be writing about central leptin function in a series very soon. Its quite complicated

485bcefe7f1f7a6df1a293a826bf6137

(2191)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:21 AM

Low carbers are burning fat and utilizing ketones. The only time they're engaged in gluconeogenesis to any significant degree is replenishing liver glycogen during physical stress. And that's exactly when cortisol is elevated. That's why low carbers who engage in too much aerobic exercise will have elevated cortisol. Another cause is staying up late at night. SO to blame it specifically on low carb is unfounded.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:45 AM

Mark Sission doesn't have a high cortisol and maybe not Robb Wolf or McGouf (is he actually low carb though?) These guys look great but most of the others do not... besides maybe LeCorre and LaLonde too.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:44 AM

How does one restore this optimal balance in the brain and get their sex hormones and thyroid going again. Especially young, lean, atheletic males... I know your leptin protocol for weight loss but how does this change with the opposite side of the spectrum?

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:43 AM

These are real world results too and I am just trying to understand the mechanisms. Did the carbs that lowered the cortsiol help the leptin which makes everything okay in the hypothalamus?

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:43 AM

K doc I read the post but I am still confused... so lets say these fellas who go low carb paleo end up not eating enough to supply gluocose and calories... and thus this creates a negative energy balance and this conitunes for a few months... this obviously raises cortisol, messing with leptin and thus every other hormone in the body... But, they add carbs and they feel great. Obviously, their cortisols are going down now that they are supplying adequete glucose, and maybe they are finally eating enough calories... But what is happening here with leptin/hypothalamus?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:42 AM

Of course it does because its is biochemistry. And Humans all respond to it. low carb does not always mean high cortisol and high cortisol does not always equal high carb......these polarizing ideas are done by people who read books but dont treat humans who get tested......I see this daily. You have to look at the context.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:40 AM

travis low carb does not always equal high cortisol when your insulin pathways are all switched on. You need to be introduced to Morris White and Dr. Meyers work. And soon you will. This whole low carb means high cortisol thing is all Anthony Colpo's doing. Total BS. Everything must be seen in context. Do some low carbers have high cortisol......you bet. Do others? Nope.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:31 AM

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/4064/469-judy-barnes-bakers-new-cookbook-dr-charles-mobbs-diabetic-research-breakthrough-and-more/ http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/3907/dr-greg-ellis-says-bye-bye-carbs-episode-461/ He refers to the high cortisol at the start of these two episodes - didn't want to look like I was talking out of my butt.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:27 AM

Quilt, what your saying makes alot of sense... will read the post and get back to you if I have questions.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:23 AM

There is only a debate when you dont understand neuroendocrinology in humans

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:18 AM

It has nothing to do with carbs vs fat......it has to do with how energy balance is accounted for at the brain. Once you know that you got your answer.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Read the blog post.....the answer is right in front of their faces but they dont understand how hormones work. When you treat this daily you kinda get it.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:06 AM

Thats why the debate is carbs v fat when thyroid is low.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:04 AM

Okay Dr but what if low carb lowers t3? For someone who is even borderline hypo this posses a massive problem

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:02 AM

@Travis - I am in total agreement with you. I have experienced this personally. After several years of very low carb coupled with being active and working out hard, I found myself looking and feeling like crap. Now I'm back on the fruit. I'll probably get the liver disease like they all say, but I'll risk it. I feel and look tons better.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:58 AM

I don't understand how someone could be low carb without elevated cortisol. Isn't its primary purpose to increase gluconeogenesis during times of low blood glucose?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Travis I do this for a living.......and I do it daily. My results walk and talk.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:57 AM

I posted this blog two months ago. Read it under hormone cascade. It is all right there. http://jackkruse.com/hormones-robb-wolf-john-cannell-adrenal-fatigue-leptin-weight-loss-health-growth-hormone/

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:56 AM

Reengineering humans? Sounds like Stroggos. So, you're saying that if the person is vitamin D replete and has a healthy thyroid, dietary cholesterol could become a sex hormone bottleneck?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:55 AM

Vitamin A....not D

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:44 AM

For what it's worth a while back Jimmy Moore had a hormone testing company sponsor for his podcast and he was testing himself as a commercial sort of thing. He had chronically elevated cortisol if I recall correctly. I think that was the only time I heard him mention this though.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:42 AM

Vitamin what? I bet it's D. The only steroid hormone which counts on assimilating the environment for its production.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:42 AM

None of the above is possible unless leptin signaling is working perfectly. And when energy balance becomes unbalanced the system breaks down. This can happen both with a high fat or high carb diet depending upon other variables that control the neurosteroid pathways.....like cortisol levels.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:40 AM

to be optimal you need to have optimal simultaneous HDL levels for this conversion. Women at 60 and men above 70. These levels decrease the oxidation potentials of the plasma because the liver is clearing the portal cirulation of all endotoxins. It is no surprise to those who understand physiology well that higher levels of testosterone in men increase HDL just for this reason. Estrogen does the same for women. This is why optimal sex steroid hormone levels correlate with lower CAD. Optimal vitamin D levels also increase HDL levels by 10-30% as well.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:34 AM

Very good question indeed.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:33 AM

Dietary cholesterol only becomes Pregnenolone when T3 and Vitamin are are present in optimal fractions. I love reading this stuff from guys who have zero experience in reengineering humans. I really do.

  • 09c1f18b662aa13e7b2c072c1b105a41

    asked by

    (330)
  • Views
    3.3K
  • Last Activity
    1407D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

7 Answers

5
Medium avatar

on August 25, 2011
at 11:45 PM

This is an excellent question and something I've been wondering about lately. The increase (to biologically normal levels) of sex hormones as measured directly or indirectly via libido etc. is often attributed to the fat, specifically saturated fat in the diet. I don't believe that this is the case at all and it is my belief that's it's actually the significant increase in dietary cholesterol that makes the biggest difference (assuming the individual doesn't have, for example, marginal Zn/Se/Cu status).

Saturated fat intake could lead to a greater pool of acetyl-CoA, which could become endogenous cholesterol (among many things) but so too could starch. However, dietary cholesterol can obviously become pregnenolone, and later testosterone etc. I'm certain that our bodies favor the most efficient path, and as such, am completely convinced that though we may be able to get by with endogenous cholesterol production, the preference would be for that to go toward maintaining membrane fluidity, myelin sheaths etc. I think that during times of dietary cholesterol scarcity, sex hormones are one of the first things to be reduced because though they are obviously necessary for the persistence of the DNA, it is likely "assumed" that the scarcity is temporary and that reproduction at times of such scarcity is suboptimal anyway.

Those with veg*n diets or "healthy" versions of the SAD would have quite low dietary cholesterol intakes for possibly very long periods of time. This would have a significant impact on many aspects of health, but definitely lipolysis in the case of a reduction in testosterone.

I have no proof of this, but I am nevertheless thoroughly convinced.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:18 AM

It has nothing to do with carbs vs fat......it has to do with how energy balance is accounted for at the brain. Once you know that you got your answer.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:24 AM

To fully understand the mechanisms you need to intimately understand leptin receptor biochemistry. And I promise you its coming.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Travis I do this for a living.......and I do it daily. My results walk and talk.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:27 AM

Quilt, what your saying makes alot of sense... will read the post and get back to you if I have questions.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:57 AM

I posted this blog two months ago. Read it under hormone cascade. It is all right there. http://jackkruse.com/hormones-robb-wolf-john-cannell-adrenal-fatigue-leptin-weight-loss-health-growth-hormone/

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Read the blog post.....the answer is right in front of their faces but they dont understand how hormones work. When you treat this daily you kinda get it.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:43 AM

K doc I read the post but I am still confused... so lets say these fellas who go low carb paleo end up not eating enough to supply gluocose and calories... and thus this creates a negative energy balance and this conitunes for a few months... this obviously raises cortisol, messing with leptin and thus every other hormone in the body... But, they add carbs and they feel great. Obviously, their cortisols are going down now that they are supplying adequete glucose, and maybe they are finally eating enough calories... But what is happening here with leptin/hypothalamus?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:23 AM

There is only a debate when you dont understand neuroendocrinology in humans

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:33 AM

Dietary cholesterol only becomes Pregnenolone when T3 and Vitamin are are present in optimal fractions. I love reading this stuff from guys who have zero experience in reengineering humans. I really do.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:40 AM

to be optimal you need to have optimal simultaneous HDL levels for this conversion. Women at 60 and men above 70. These levels decrease the oxidation potentials of the plasma because the liver is clearing the portal cirulation of all endotoxins. It is no surprise to those who understand physiology well that higher levels of testosterone in men increase HDL just for this reason. Estrogen does the same for women. This is why optimal sex steroid hormone levels correlate with lower CAD. Optimal vitamin D levels also increase HDL levels by 10-30% as well.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:42 AM

None of the above is possible unless leptin signaling is working perfectly. And when energy balance becomes unbalanced the system breaks down. This can happen both with a high fat or high carb diet depending upon other variables that control the neurosteroid pathways.....like cortisol levels.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:55 AM

Vitamin A....not D

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:06 AM

Thats why the debate is carbs v fat when thyroid is low.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:42 AM

Of course it does because its is biochemistry. And Humans all respond to it. low carb does not always mean high cortisol and high cortisol does not always equal high carb......these polarizing ideas are done by people who read books but dont treat humans who get tested......I see this daily. You have to look at the context.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:42 AM

Vitamin what? I bet it's D. The only steroid hormone which counts on assimilating the environment for its production.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:04 AM

Okay Dr but what if low carb lowers t3? For someone who is even borderline hypo this posses a massive problem

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:22 AM

Bill if you are confused you need to read up on this stuff. I cant convey clinical medicine over the internet. That is what a medical residency does. The written knowledge is easy to obtain in a text book......clinical medicine is an art with a scientists hand. You cant have normal sex steroids if leptin is not optimal The reason why is leptinRB neurons project directly onto Parvocellualr nucleus and are different in genders. I will be writing about central leptin function in a series very soon. Its quite complicated

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:43 AM

These are real world results too and I am just trying to understand the mechanisms. Did the carbs that lowered the cortsiol help the leptin which makes everything okay in the hypothalamus?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 26, 2011
at 02:23 AM

Leptin controls it all Bill......leptin is not just about weight loss. That is the biggest misnomer on this board. It controls everything. Without energy balance you are a cadaver. If its off a bit....your hormones are off a bit. It becomes a loss of efficiency issue.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:56 AM

Reengineering humans? Sounds like Stroggos. So, you're saying that if the person is vitamin D replete and has a healthy thyroid, dietary cholesterol could become a sex hormone bottleneck?

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:44 AM

How does one restore this optimal balance in the brain and get their sex hormones and thyroid going again. Especially young, lean, atheletic males... I know your leptin protocol for weight loss but how does this change with the opposite side of the spectrum?

2
C8ce506bf935454b0451ec4ffac68a34

on August 26, 2011
at 07:07 AM

I'm a 25 year old female. I've been a fitness instructor for 7 years.. so, i've always lead an active and somewhat healthy nutritional lifestyle. But, since the fall of last year I began having some symptoms of really low progesterone- which caused a mess of health issues (blood pressure, hot flashes, little to no energy, 2 menstrual cycles per month etc) I refused to take synthetic crap and so chose to see a natural-path. I was advised to take natural progesterone supplements, which I did, along with accupuncture and cranial sacral therapy. Things seemed to get better, but I really wanted to tackle the issue with what I was putting into my body... Since switching to a paleo way of eating a couple months ago, my hormones have regulated naturally and I am no longer anemic! yay! I no longer need to take progesterone ... the only supplements I take are B6 and a Calcium-Magnesium.

PTL for Paleo =o)

1
C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

on August 26, 2011
at 12:31 AM

question of the year...i hope for a big disscussion...

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 26, 2011
at 12:34 AM

Very good question indeed.

0
7dab2d8c97e44d8d0c298e5c9d5d75bc

(641)

on October 05, 2012
at 02:14 PM

In my opinion, it's ok to eat protein, and veggies/fruits. However, you'd need to adjust your carb intake to your weight and activity level. If you want to weigh less, increase activity and eat lower carb. Fruits and potatoes can really mess with a person who is paleo and on a diet.

VLC is fine for me- I seem to be sensitive to all but sweet potatoes. I'll throw in an apple or a half a banana every now and then after a work out.

I don't have any evidence for this, it just "feels right" for me. I have to eat carbs after a 6 hour kayaking trip, or bike riding for insane amounts of time. It just doesn't feel good without a few. However, I came up for a sensitivity to all grains on a few different tests, aside from quinoa, which isn't even a grain!

0
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:25 PM

From Bill's question...

"HDL and Testosterone are always postively correlated. Saturated Fats raise HDL, so higher fat should = higher T. But for some reason this isn???t the case for some? Also, Paul noted in his HDL post that higher potassium excretion was correlated with high HDL, so tubers such as potatoes and sweet potatoes, which are to my knowledge the highest dietary sources of potassium around, also should help HDL and testosterone and this is certainly true in my case going off of symptoms."

Looking at this through my lenses (hard for me not to do), there has to be something really screwing things up for me.

I eat loads of sat fats and my HDL is on the ground. I am also being told that my T is low by multiple hackers. If HDL should be higher with high potassium, and I eat potatoes and sweet potatoes (and previously loads of bananas), then what gives. Plus I have 58.8 ng/ML VitD and yet my HDL and T are low??

What if it's something so simple as just poor thyroid function (not that the topic itself is simple, but the diagnoses itself could be simple). If I focused on that, perhaps the majority of what I seeing could be corrected. I can go back in and insist on full thyroid numbers.. as the "thyroid cascade panel" was a joke, which only provided the TSH figure at 1.88 with no other detailed info.

Dr Davis seems to think I fit the bill for ApoE2, which confused me, becaused I thought I might be ApoE4.

Something to note is that when I went from SAD to on low carb high fat I went from 142 trigs to 85. But HDL has never been a champion. Maybe I have suffered from poor thyroid function all my life and it has gone "undiagnosed" all my life.

This is what's wrong with our medical system. That conventional docs in standard care that the vast majority of people rely on are not taught how to fix this stuff.

At any rate, this question sparks a wide path for discussion because so much is connected to it and many people debate the whole carbs vs fat deal.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on September 23, 2011
at 11:28 PM

i've tried papaya at least a dozen times because I want to like em. to me, they smell like barf. I just can't hack it.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:49 PM

The potassium in sweet potatoes and normal potatoes is concentrated in the skin, which is toxic. It's better to try to get it from relatively low fructose fruits. Kiwis and papayas are at a good intersection between vitamin c, potassium and fructose.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 23, 2011
at 11:11 PM

Could I get a source on that Travis? I always thought there was abundant potassium in the flesh.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on September 24, 2011
at 02:41 AM

Travis, would love a link for that.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 06:56 PM

I think it can't be true because humans never had readily available simple sugars trough history and because liver is constantly keeping sugar in specific range and because low carb diet actually makes fasting BG higher.

I feel my thyroid works better now and my tests confirm I am in good range if that is reliable.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Fruit isn't available for entire year.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Fruit is seasonal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:41 PM

And what about liver...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Not readily available like I said. And last time I heard, fruit and honey were seasonal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Last time I checked, fruit and honey were seasonal

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:29 PM

"humans never had readily available simple sugars trough history" This is your opinion for all we know they had acess to tons of honey and fruit. Clearly you havn't been here for all of human history.

0
Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 26, 2011
at 01:41 AM

meant to answer in the comments...

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!