10

votes

Not losing weight on low carb paleo. Why?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 01, 2010 at 7:48 AM

I'm wondering if the more low carb you go, the less tolerant you are to sugar, even from fruit? And in what cases would strict paleo cause fat gain?

Sorry for the following long explanation, but any insights on how VLC paleo could possibly cause sudden fat gain (when there is clearly fat to be lost, not for an already leaned out individual bordering minimum body fat) would be appreciated!

I'm a 19yo female who has been doing paleo for almost 2 years.
2 YEARS AGO:
When I started, I ate all the paleo "allowed" foods (no dairy), including nuts and fresh/dried fruits in copious amounts. Nevertheless, the fat flew off easily and I got to a somewhat-lean 115lbs (at 5'1" tall, currently chubby at 125lbs).

7 MONTHS AGO:
One time after a period of stagnation in weight loss (at 115), suddenly paleo stopped "working" and I gained 15lbs in 4 weeks! I switched to eating only veggies for carbs, cutting out nuts, seeds, and fruit.

6 MONTHS AGO:
Veggie-only-as-carb paleo didn't work, so I went to "zero carb", like in www.carnivornehealth.com, eating only pemmican, eggs, bacon, coconut milk and avocados for 1 week. Going "carnivore" finally got the body back into fat-burning, and I was able to go back to veggie-only-as-carb, and then add occasional fruit, while losing weight. But the rate of fat loss was slow. Since 125 is the current weight (down from 130), that means losing only 5 lbs fat over 6 months! (Okay, maybe 6 lbs fat if we account for ~1lb muscle gain from starting crossfit 2 months ago..)

NOW (5/30):
Starting last week, have been not been able to eat any fruit (even low sugar ones like blueberries) without bloating up, especially the cheeks/jaw area. Switched to all fat+meat with very little veggies, and still fattening up noticeably over one day's time.

Typical foods are grassfed beef, eggs, nitrate-free bacon, roast duck, coconut milk (not canned, no preservatives/guar gum), marrow soup, and some veggies (but the meat dominates every meal).

Are these possible reasons:
-too high protein?
-messed up metabolism from fast-food childhood and subsequent years of dieting?
-too many calories?
-petite, small frame?
-Asian descent, tendency for higher fat percentage?

Just throwing some stuff out there that may or may not be plausible.

UPDATE 6/1:
Since 5/30, I have developed a scratchy/sore throat, it doesn't seem like one from the common cold because it feels swollen. Barely noticeable, but progressively worse over 3 days. No cold/illness symptoms otherwise...as suggested by some, maybe thyroid problems? Hashimoto's?

Already stopped eating fruit and started 16-20hr fasts (5/31). Will stop eggs and coconut milk immediately, and avoid poultry when possible (not fully in control of meat selection while living with family). No more exercise except for walking or low-intensity biking for transportation purposes.

Out of curiosity, fingered the throat and felt a distinct lump on each side. They're not getting any smaller, esp after breaking a 20hr fast with bacon, duck, broccoli, and fish oil.

UPDATE 7/18:
Throughout the last month, a host of symptoms have appeared, including:
-chronic fatigue
-difficulty falling asleep, waking at night, when formerly a very heavy/quick sleeper
-cold feet/hands
-feeling extremely hot when in 80 degree (not humid) weather
-emotional excitability/1 episode of depressing thoughts-->crying
-lightheadedness when standing (low blood pres. runs in family but it's worse than normal)
-slow healing of cuts/scrapes
-dry skin

Went to see three doctors including an endocrinologist. Upon hearing the symptoms, they immediately ask if I have family history of thyroid problems (1 cousin does). They suspect hypothyroid at first glance. Other possible causes are Cushing's and growth hormone deficiency. Interestingly, both Cushing's and GH def are caused by problems (eg.tumor) in the pituitary gland.

Polycystic ovarian cancer and Hashimoto's were also briefly mentioned but unlikely, but I was tested anyway just in case. Waiting for blood, urine, and salivary test results to come in, and scheduling an MRI pituitary scan.

UPDATE 7/22: (Some) Test results are here!
Normal values:
Ferritin (rules out anemia)
AB and TPO antibodies (rules out Hashimoto's)
B12 and Folate (rules out nutrient deficiency)
TSH (many interpretations possible)
cortisol (decreased likelihood of ACTH-dependent Cushing's)

Low values:
Vitamin D (need to supplement/get more sun)
free T3 (low end of normal)
free T4 (low end of normal)
IGF-1 (indicates growth hormone deficiency as possible cause of symptoms)

High values: Total cholesterol

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on October 31, 2010
at 02:05 AM

There is a reason for "testing only what is pertinent to [sic] this moment". Namely, one builds a diagnosis through hypothesis testing, which requires piecewise addition of information. Not using this approach makes it easy to misinterpret clinical data. A flood of test results is not a flood of information. That doesn't excuse her "Then there's nothing to treat" remark.

86a7abe4a54c4dc15ea44bacef00c5a8

(523)

on September 04, 2010
at 03:48 PM

I second Gillius' suggestion about looking into inflammation and iodine deficiency. The throat issues you described sound like classic Iodine problems. Try supplementing with Iodoral or adding a significant amount of seaweed, kombu, nori, etc. to your diet. I agree that getting healthy should take priority over losing weight. I know this is sometimes hard to do. About a year ago, I found out I was terribly lacking in Vitamin D (32). My alternative MD recommended 10,000 IU of Vit D3 daily at night. This dosage has slowly brought my levels up to 59 over the last year.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on September 02, 2010
at 11:49 PM

I too am experiencing very similar things. I went primal / paleo 7 month ago and dropped from 179 to 155 over a few months (I'm 27, M, 5'8") Over the past 2 months, I cant sniff the 150's, and am stuck at around 163. I'm very worn out (get 8-9hrs sleep, but always tired) this week my lymphnodes swelled up, numbness in hands and feet, sensitivity to temperatures, foggyness, no drive to do anything. Someone help :/

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 23, 2010
at 08:07 PM

There may be a chance of setting unrealistic goals, but I should have mentioned: I was the "skinny fat" girl for most of my life, despite being athletic (running). Non-athletic girls are more muscular than me, so I'm a hard-gainer for muscle, even with the (very) recent addition of crossfit to my reduced endurance regimen. Before the fat gain, I was 26% bodyfat. Having a short AND petite frame might explain why the numbers are a little off from your own. If it seemed like it, I honestly couldn't care less about total weight; it's more the desire to be lower than 20% bodyfat.

424563ee2575f0620ea221badabb40d7

(272)

on July 23, 2010
at 03:39 AM

it's nice to see somebody mention calories, Stancel.

Cbf9ad6e645dc8d655259658fc972e58

(321)

on July 22, 2010
at 07:18 PM

That numbered list is a list of symptoms of LOW adrenal function, which would lead to (potentially severe) weight loss, not weight gain.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on July 22, 2010
at 12:50 PM

How long were you low carb? How strict are your carbs(no grain) on your low fat diet?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on July 22, 2010
at 12:48 PM

I would think the body seeks homeostasis, given that, more muscle requires more energy. Therefore you need more storage to last the same period as before( if you could go 14 days on stored fat) or whatever the magic internal # is. Think protecting the brain

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 22, 2010
at 08:02 AM

Yeah, STTM is one of the most informative resources I've seen on these issues. When I saw the doctor to have her order the recommended lab tests, she was adamant about "testing only what is pertinent to this moment", TSH and 24hr cortisol. And what if I came out "normal" despite the symptoms? "Then there's nothing to treat." She handed me the lab order with two boxes checked in black ink and curtly bid goodbye. Appalled, I went to the lab, grabbed a black pen, and checked off the boxes for ferritin, Vita D, fT3, fT4, and all the other tests...before handing it off to the phlebotomist :D

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 22, 2010
at 07:52 AM

Thanks for the adrenal fatigue suggestion! The first doctor was open to adrenal fatigue/kidney problems as the cause, and from researching thyroid-related symptoms I considered it plausible. When I suggested it to the endocrinologist (experienced in Cushings, thyroid and related issues), he laughed and said it was unlikely because I was gaining weight rather than losing weight which is typical of adrenals-affected patients. There are, however, cases of adrenal tumors that cause Cushing's...

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 21, 2010
at 03:38 AM

Paleo is lowcarb compared to SAD, that is for sure. I am comfortable calling it lowcarb. Also, many vitamins will not digest properly if they are not eaten with fat. Some fat with each meal is probably a good idea for this reason.

947b190e4cb0f4e0356b959d6fa7b50a

(55)

on July 20, 2010
at 02:50 AM

I agree with this, Stancel. During a too long bout of unemployment, we had to really choose our food wisely and make it last a lot longer than normal. It resulted in a consistent drop in daily calories with no snacking (no matter how paleo) between our twice-daily meals. I'm 5'2" and was stalled on weight loss up to that point, this restriction in meal size was what finally got the weight coming off. And I felt better, too. Calories do matter and small women can't ignore them, especially as we age.

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:34 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat to continue functioning optimally.

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:34 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat.

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:33 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is really from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat.

70d9359a2086e890a4c3bccb2ba8a8cb

(2254)

on July 19, 2010
at 04:56 PM

Just curious... why would added muscle require extra fat to support it? (i.e. what function does the fat perform that helps sustain the muscle?)

3eafb88d6a6d762fcfa8ed4eb0576260

(642)

on June 22, 2010
at 08:30 PM

Melissa linked to Matt Stone's blog below, and I would definitely recommend reading through it, as well as checking out Diana Schwarzbein's book "The Schwarzbein Principle II," to gain a better understanding of why you may be experiencing these issues in spite of (or because of) low-carbing and doing a lot of exercise.

1f70da0b737e9c6e7679a248f4228a01

on June 21, 2010
at 12:44 AM

Phwoar, it's like reading my life! I had no problems with fat loss when eating all sorts of primal foods including dairy (less than 20g carb minus fibre), and then after six months I stalled, so I cut more carbs, eventually ending up eating nothing but meat. Got down to my lowest weight 9 months into being primal, and then my weight rose a little as I tried to find my maintenance level of calories. It kept rising over Christmas, and then an experience with a new pain killer drug caused massive gain that simply hasn't stopped. Today I'm at my starting weight, despite low cals & some carb. Argh!

Bbb993c8dacf76dd461703a82686c06a

(135)

on June 04, 2010
at 02:07 AM

I have been trying to target the root cause of hypo for a couple of years. I am focusing on iodine deficiency and ferratin deficiency. I guess its all about n=1. Rule out hashimotos -- approx 98% of hashimotos is caused by gluten intolerance.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on June 02, 2010
at 12:08 AM

Mark Sisson's new cookbook has a receipe to make "rice" out of cauliflower. This can be used as a replacement for dishes that call for rice. Janet, I agree with the others that you are working yourself too hard. I have an issue with anxiety and when my anxiety is high I store fat quickly, I mean really fast when other times I shed fat. Anxiety and excessive exercise both release cortisol which makes you store extra fat.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Thanks Ed. I think the idea behind weaning off the potential suspects is that you can later incorporate each food one by one to watch for reactions.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 10:58 PM

Regarding thyroid treatment, does that mean I would be on meds the rest of my life? Is there a way to target the root cause?

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:41 PM

Let's say you feel like crap because you're overweight and eat lots of sugar. You also have a thyroid issue. One day, you stumble upon paleo. You start losing weight, your blood sugar stabilizes, you feel great! But after a while your weight levels out or starts going up and you start looking for a problem. Now that you are much more health conscious you ask more questions, do more research, and find that fatigue/weight gain is a symptom of thyroid, so you go to a doctor and get it checked: thyroid diagnosis despite paleo. Paleo is not a cureall - damaged thyroids just might not work anymore.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:27 PM

If paleo is known to alleviate existing thyroid problems (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/infonews-items/hashimoto%27s-thyroiditis-and-a-meat-and-fat-diet/), how would it make a person realize they have it AFTER going on paleo?

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on June 01, 2010
at 08:49 PM

Your decision to rest and re-evaluate (as noted in your edits) strikes me as wise. I would be careful about enacting too many dietary restrictions in the abscence of specific, known food sensitivities. The more varied your diet, the less likely you are to develop nutritional deficiencies.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 08:27 PM

I was always the super-energetic, skinny-fat kid who can eat anything (Burger King everyday) up until age 14 and seeing slow and steady weight gain throughout high school. My very basic understanding of hypothyroidism is low energy, low body temps (and other things). However, despite the weight gain, I have remained energetic and enjoy wearing flipflops in 50 deg weather. What could be the reason/cause for this condition?

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:34 PM

My understanding of thyroid treatment is that you just take replacement thyroid. There are thyroid disorders that don't go away with diet. Kurt Harris has blogged about this a couple of times since hypothyroid is a very common problem, the sort you might not realize you have until after you've gone paleo, and people tend to freak out a bit when they discover it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 06:32 PM

No reason, just makes my shopping easier.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:25 PM

Yeah one of the reasons I left ZIOH was the weird demi-god status the bear had. Muscles don't use glucose ever! Bear said so! and so forth. I'm mostly interested in him as a living test of a long term VLC carnivore diet.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:06 PM

Note that the 1-week carnivore fling was a last resort experiment. Unless there is compelling reason to adopt carnivory as a lifestyle, I don't plan on doing that again. If there's something else that may work, I'm willing to try. Speaking of which, is there a particular reason behind separating the veggies, fish, and grassfed meat into 3 meals?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:56 PM

Do you mean green veggies as in leafy greens? As for triathlon, I don't have a specific event I'm training for. Rather, I know I will want to race eventually so keeping in improvement-mode (instead of just maintenance) is a priority. Perhaps I can reduce to less than 4 hours of training per week. It just feels like I'm barely doing anything, especially when I'm (almost) never sore. For sleep, I do 6 hours at night and a 3 hour nap in the afternoon, everyday.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:48 PM

Inflammation is an interesting idea. There are warnings on the crossfitendurance.com site about overtraining during the longslowcardio-to-crossfit transition. So as a precaution, I never workout if I'm sore. And nowadays I'm not sore as much because of (IMO) not hammering uphill on a bike for 3 hours at a time. As for IF, I've done it occasionally in the past and started again 2 days ago, 16-20hr fasts and 2 meals daily.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:37 PM

Good idea, I was going to see the doctor next month for my annual anyway. But, what if they do find a problem? How much can you trust a non-paleo doctor's recommendations for treatment of hypothyroidism (or anything)?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:32 PM

Did you see my comments to Patrik? For the last 2 yrs, I worked out 15 hours a week, then cut it to 4 hours a week with my current exercise? Yes, crossfit+sprints+swim/bike may sound like a lot, maybe high frequency (9wkouts/wk) but low volume when you add up the time. Last year, I did 12 wkouts/wk and lost weight easily. So is high frequency/low volume worse than high frequency/high volume? The week before this one (week of 5/24. fat gain was noticed on Fri 5/28), I was taking a rest and didn't workout for 4 days straight from being busy sorting out a housing situation (I'm a student).

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:13 PM

I wouldn't frame your exercise in terms of how time is actually spent doing it - this doesn't account for intensity. I would frame it in terms of its effects on your Central Nervous System -- and CrossFit can really fry that if you overdo it.

Cfccbcf3450ac4919311ded8ef162d49

(2312)

on June 01, 2010
at 04:25 PM

From personal experience, being a filipino and eating rice with every meal for 40+yrs and paleo for the past year, I believe it's a matter of one's willingness to break out of old habits. :-)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 04:12 PM

If you actually read what The Bear writes it's pretty hilarious to consider him a diet guru, as many do. His writings are scientifically up there with Aajonus Vonderplanitz. In the words of Kurt Harris "If the Stonites and Zero Carb hezbollah both hate you, you must be doing something right."

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:50 PM

spencer: That was his heart attack excuse - something about an "old blockage". His cancer excuse was HPV infection.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:49 PM

Yes, and the sfgate article is the only source for that comment. In his thread on the lowcarb forum, he claimed it was caused by an HPV infection. Basic principle of charity dictates that you grant some benefit of the doubt to someone you disagree with; harping the broccoli thing in the face of what the guy actually wrote himself doesn't seem very charitable, it just seems petty. Like saying that Taubes is wrong about everything and a moron for his offhand comment that you can't get fat without dietary carbs. Bear's wrong about a lot of stuff, but that shouldn't invite ridicule.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:46 PM

Since we're in the business of veering off-topic... Here is the "The Bear's" rant: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013&page=1&pp=15 tldr; The broccoli comment is prolly a joke. His excuse is that he had some embolism that developed during his high carb days (I can't remember the details, and that thread is way too long). Take that how you will.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 03:01 PM

I think VLC is fine seasonally, but for our ancestors to have had a reaction to berries would have been maladaptive.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 02:58 PM

"His heart attack several years ago had nothing to do with his strict regimen, according to Bear, but more likely the result of some poisonous broccoli his mother made him eat as a youth." Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/12/MNGK0QV7HS1.DTL#ixzz0pc6l7NHf

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 01:41 PM

You know I'd generally agree with your anti-carnivore sentiments if you didn't poison it with random stuff like "The bear blames his heart attack on broccoli!" which aside from being irrelevant to the health question is probably not even actually true. Physiologic insulin resistance is a normal adaptation to VLC, not just carnivory. Adrenal fatigue is another en-vogue fear that has no real medical evidence behind it. Kurt Harris explains a lot of this in his blog. His Matt Stone post I think was one of the main ones, the rest is probably spread out all over the place.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:54 AM

Now or back then? I have decreased from 15 to 4 hours total per week. Yes, because the crossfit is 15min (avg) x 4= 1hour, tabata is 4min x 3= 12min, plus 2 hours of swim/bike is...3.5 hours per week. If anything, 4 hours if you count warmup time for the tabatas...

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:52 AM

Now or back then? I have decreased from 15 to 4 hours total per week. Yes, because the crossfit is 15min (avg) x 4= 1hour, tabata is 4min x 3= 12min, plus 2 hours of swim/bike is...3 hours per week. If anything, 4 hours for a "heavy" week...

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:41 AM

Maybe you are exercising too much?!

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:13 AM

So I was doing 15 hour training weeks for triathlon all this time before going into "crossfit endurance". However, I did have a drop in training in Sept-March (10mo-2 mos ago). That might have caused the first episode of weight gain, but then again, why would it take 3 months for the body to realize I had stopped exercising as much?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:13 AM

Currently on a weekly basis, I do crossfit 4x, tabata sprints 3x, and swim/bike 1-2x. The swim and bike are 1-1.5 hour sessions. I have been doing triathlon for the entire time on paleo. Started Crossfit 2 months ago and, at the same time, dropped the traditional endurance athlete volume (tabatas instead of 30-60min runs, 1-1.5hr bike rides 1x/wk instead of 2-3 hours 3x/wk).

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on June 01, 2010
at 08:11 AM

What sort of exercise are you doing? And how frequently?

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18 Answers

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8
D63a9a7789b948a1e88647f6c0e504ca

on June 01, 2010
at 03:31 PM

Sudden dramatic weight gain despite a healthy diet can signal the onset of hypothyroidism or possibly another medical condition. I think a visit to a doctor is in order before you start endlessly monkeying around with what you're eating on the advice of strangers on the internet.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:37 PM

Good idea, I was going to see the doctor next month for my annual anyway. But, what if they do find a problem? How much can you trust a non-paleo doctor's recommendations for treatment of hypothyroidism (or anything)?

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:34 PM

My understanding of thyroid treatment is that you just take replacement thyroid. There are thyroid disorders that don't go away with diet. Kurt Harris has blogged about this a couple of times since hypothyroid is a very common problem, the sort you might not realize you have until after you've gone paleo, and people tend to freak out a bit when they discover it.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:41 PM

Let's say you feel like crap because you're overweight and eat lots of sugar. You also have a thyroid issue. One day, you stumble upon paleo. You start losing weight, your blood sugar stabilizes, you feel great! But after a while your weight levels out or starts going up and you start looking for a problem. Now that you are much more health conscious you ask more questions, do more research, and find that fatigue/weight gain is a symptom of thyroid, so you go to a doctor and get it checked: thyroid diagnosis despite paleo. Paleo is not a cureall - damaged thyroids just might not work anymore.

Bbb993c8dacf76dd461703a82686c06a

(135)

on June 04, 2010
at 02:07 AM

I have been trying to target the root cause of hypo for a couple of years. I am focusing on iodine deficiency and ferratin deficiency. I guess its all about n=1. Rule out hashimotos -- approx 98% of hashimotos is caused by gluten intolerance.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 09:27 PM

If paleo is known to alleviate existing thyroid problems (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/infonews-items/hashimoto%27s-thyroiditis-and-a-meat-and-fat-diet/), how would it make a person realize they have it AFTER going on paleo?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 08:27 PM

I was always the super-energetic, skinny-fat kid who can eat anything (Burger King everyday) up until age 14 and seeing slow and steady weight gain throughout high school. My very basic understanding of hypothyroidism is low energy, low body temps (and other things). However, despite the weight gain, I have remained energetic and enjoy wearing flipflops in 50 deg weather. What could be the reason/cause for this condition?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 10:58 PM

Regarding thyroid treatment, does that mean I would be on meds the rest of my life? Is there a way to target the root cause?

11
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 01:02 PM

Carnivore isn't paleo. There is no culture that is 100% zero carb. Even the Inuit living in the high polar regions, a neolithic settlement, eat some plant matter. I've known so many people who have fallen into the carnivore trap and end up insulin resistant with food allergies, and with adrenal fatigue (Hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis dysfunction). I've gotten large amounts of of flack for disliking carnivore, but I just can't support it. A few dude who have been eating this way for a couple of years do not prove anything about the safety of this diet. "The Bear" has had a heart attack and he shows his ignorance of basic science by blaming it on broccoli he ate as a child.

I know way more people who have done badly on this diet and it's going to give paleo a bad name despite the fact that it's not paleo. Matt Stone has in particular has made a career out of such people. I have lived in the Arctic and while I ate meat in the winter, I would also eat large amounts of greens, berries, and mushrooms in the spring and summer.

Then there is the issue that you are Asian, and there is some genetic evidence that Asians are better adapted to carbs.

Frankly, the fruit allergy thing is more worrying than weight issues. Health trumps all and weight isn't always an accurate indicator of that. Weight can be an indicator of epigenetic changes, environmental toxins, and the way you were raised.

Either way, you are my size when I started paleo and I think it would be possible for you to slim down. My family in total has lost 95 lbs on this diet. My strategy is three meals: vegetable meal (with seaweed and some tubers), fish with large amounts of supplemental fat like coconut oil/ghee/butter meal, and grassfed ruminant meat meal. Every couple of days a pork meal can sub for any meal.

No eggs (digestive irritant), no coconut milk (digestive irritant, though I've been able to add in small amounts, coconut oil is OK), no poultry (omega-6), and limited nuts-mostly macadamia. Butter and ghee are allowed. 100 grams of carbs a day. I would supplement kelp if you don't like seaweed. It's basically the Okinawan diet before they had Malthusian crisis and it got misinterpreted as a low-fat diet- their diet was yams, seaweed, goat, greens, and pork.

I would exercise only twice a week until you start feeling better. Exercise can help with stress, but sometimes it is stress. It also does make you hungrier.

There's my advice. It's controversial.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:50 PM

spencer: That was his heart attack excuse - something about an "old blockage". His cancer excuse was HPV infection.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 06:32 PM

No reason, just makes my shopping easier.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 04:12 PM

If you actually read what The Bear writes it's pretty hilarious to consider him a diet guru, as many do. His writings are scientifically up there with Aajonus Vonderplanitz. In the words of Kurt Harris "If the Stonites and Zero Carb hezbollah both hate you, you must be doing something right."

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:06 PM

Note that the 1-week carnivore fling was a last resort experiment. Unless there is compelling reason to adopt carnivory as a lifestyle, I don't plan on doing that again. If there's something else that may work, I'm willing to try. Speaking of which, is there a particular reason behind separating the veggies, fish, and grassfed meat into 3 meals?

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 01:41 PM

You know I'd generally agree with your anti-carnivore sentiments if you didn't poison it with random stuff like "The bear blames his heart attack on broccoli!" which aside from being irrelevant to the health question is probably not even actually true. Physiologic insulin resistance is a normal adaptation to VLC, not just carnivory. Adrenal fatigue is another en-vogue fear that has no real medical evidence behind it. Kurt Harris explains a lot of this in his blog. His Matt Stone post I think was one of the main ones, the rest is probably spread out all over the place.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 03:01 PM

I think VLC is fine seasonally, but for our ancestors to have had a reaction to berries would have been maladaptive.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:49 PM

Yes, and the sfgate article is the only source for that comment. In his thread on the lowcarb forum, he claimed it was caused by an HPV infection. Basic principle of charity dictates that you grant some benefit of the doubt to someone you disagree with; harping the broccoli thing in the face of what the guy actually wrote himself doesn't seem very charitable, it just seems petty. Like saying that Taubes is wrong about everything and a moron for his offhand comment that you can't get fat without dietary carbs. Bear's wrong about a lot of stuff, but that shouldn't invite ridicule.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:46 PM

Since we're in the business of veering off-topic... Here is the "The Bear's" rant: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013&page=1&pp=15 tldr; The broccoli comment is prolly a joke. His excuse is that he had some embolism that developed during his high carb days (I can't remember the details, and that thread is way too long). Take that how you will.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2010
at 06:25 PM

Yeah one of the reasons I left ZIOH was the weird demi-god status the bear had. Muscles don't use glucose ever! Bear said so! and so forth. I'm mostly interested in him as a living test of a long term VLC carnivore diet.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 01, 2010
at 02:58 PM

"His heart attack several years ago had nothing to do with his strict regimen, according to Bear, but more likely the result of some poisonous broccoli his mother made him eat as a youth." Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/12/MNGK0QV7HS1.DTL#ixzz0pc6l7NHf

5
D25307ea58300b9569b5a130444f7e14

(247)

on July 19, 2010
at 01:53 PM

This sounds like classic adrenal fatigue to me. Based on your lack of carbs, excessive workout routines and symptoms I have to think that adrenal fatigue would be a possibility. Remember that the adrenal's can also affect Thyroid function. Personally I would take a period of reset from all workouts. Burned out adrenals can take months to repair to normal, or almost normal operation. Mid term start supplementing with Vitamin B Complex, and Natural Medicine to boost of assist the function of the adrenals.

Here are some symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

  1. Excessive fatigue and exhaustion, chronic fatigue
  2. Non-refreshing sleep
  3. Sleep disturbance, insomnia
  4. Feeling overwhelmed or unable to cope
  5. Craving salty and/or sweet foods
  6. Sensitivity to light
  7. Low stamina and slow to recover from exercise
  8. Slow to recover from injury or illness
  9. Difficulty concentrating, brain fog
  10. Poor digestion
  11. Irritable bowel syndrome, IBS
  12. Low immune function
  13. Premenstrual syndrome
  14. Menopause symptoms
  15. Low blood pressure
  16. Sensitivity to cold
  17. Fearfulness
  18. Allergies,
  19. Frequent influenza
  20. Arthritis
  21. Anxiety
  22. Irritability
  23. Depression
  24. Reduced memory
  25. Low libido, sexual drive or interest
  26. Lack of lust for life and/or food
  27. Excess hunger
  28. Low appetite
  29. Panic/anxiety attacks
  30. Irritability, impatience, quick to anger

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 22, 2010
at 07:52 AM

Thanks for the adrenal fatigue suggestion! The first doctor was open to adrenal fatigue/kidney problems as the cause, and from researching thyroid-related symptoms I considered it plausible. When I suggested it to the endocrinologist (experienced in Cushings, thyroid and related issues), he laughed and said it was unlikely because I was gaining weight rather than losing weight which is typical of adrenals-affected patients. There are, however, cases of adrenal tumors that cause Cushing's...

Cbf9ad6e645dc8d655259658fc972e58

(321)

on July 22, 2010
at 07:18 PM

That numbered list is a list of symptoms of LOW adrenal function, which would lead to (potentially severe) weight loss, not weight gain.

5
6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on June 01, 2010
at 01:09 PM

Being a tri-athlete is probably not healthy long-term, but Brad Kearns did a great post on MDA about endurance training while living primal/paleo ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-endurance-training/ ). The fact that you are not reaching your body composition goals is most likely due to chronic inflammation and high cortisol levels. You're certainly over-training, as others have noted.

My suggestions:

  1. Drop the crossfit and the tabatas altogether.
  2. Incorporate your interval sprints into your swim and bicycle sessions. Interval training will improve your times--if you don't overdo it.
  3. Keep your heart rate below 70% of your max between sprints to prevent "chronic cardio" ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/chronic-cardio/ ). According to Sisson and others, chronic cardio raises your cortisol level and generates free radicals.
  4. Do brief sessions of heavy lifting once or twice per week (squats, benches, rows) to keep your muscle mass and growth hormone levels up.
  5. Get plenty of sleep.
  6. Try intermittent fasting (IF), discussed on previous threads (eg., http://paleohacks.com/questions/3/intermittent-fasting ).
  7. Good luck!

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Thanks Ed. I think the idea behind weaning off the potential suspects is that you can later incorporate each food one by one to watch for reactions.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:48 PM

Inflammation is an interesting idea. There are warnings on the crossfitendurance.com site about overtraining during the longslowcardio-to-crossfit transition. So as a precaution, I never workout if I'm sore. And nowadays I'm not sore as much because of (IMO) not hammering uphill on a bike for 3 hours at a time. As for IF, I've done it occasionally in the past and started again 2 days ago, 16-20hr fasts and 2 meals daily.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on June 01, 2010
at 08:49 PM

Your decision to rest and re-evaluate (as noted in your edits) strikes me as wise. I would be careful about enacting too many dietary restrictions in the abscence of specific, known food sensitivities. The more varied your diet, the less likely you are to develop nutritional deficiencies.

5
1340fe0b7e7b01683ea33042092e05d6

on June 01, 2010
at 11:47 AM

My initial thoughts/recommendations/questions:

You are working out WAY too much in my personal opinion. 3 days of crossfit, 3 sets of sprints, and 2 hours of swimming and biking? Honestly, I would drop the sprints and swimming/biking immediately.

I would also decrease the amount of protein from animal sources, and REALLY crank up the saturated fat from butter/pemmican/coconut. Avoid all fruit (other than avocado), and nothing but GREEN veggies.

Remember the body has a decent sized insulin response to protein, it might be time to give that pathway a break. I'd try this for 2 or so weeks, and see where it puts you.

Are you still training for a triathlon? If so, you will have to decide on your end game and goals and stay the course. But my initial thought on trying to redo body composition and train for the holiest of endurance events, will REALLY peak your cortisol levels on a regular basis. Higher cortisol levels, the more fat you will retain.

Are you getting enough sleep as well, and whats your rest schedule that you follow?

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:32 PM

Did you see my comments to Patrik? For the last 2 yrs, I worked out 15 hours a week, then cut it to 4 hours a week with my current exercise? Yes, crossfit+sprints+swim/bike may sound like a lot, maybe high frequency (9wkouts/wk) but low volume when you add up the time. Last year, I did 12 wkouts/wk and lost weight easily. So is high frequency/low volume worse than high frequency/high volume? The week before this one (week of 5/24. fat gain was noticed on Fri 5/28), I was taking a rest and didn't workout for 4 days straight from being busy sorting out a housing situation (I'm a student).

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on June 01, 2010
at 05:56 PM

Do you mean green veggies as in leafy greens? As for triathlon, I don't have a specific event I'm training for. Rather, I know I will want to race eventually so keeping in improvement-mode (instead of just maintenance) is a priority. Perhaps I can reduce to less than 4 hours of training per week. It just feels like I'm barely doing anything, especially when I'm (almost) never sore. For sleep, I do 6 hours at night and a 3 hour nap in the afternoon, everyday.

4
8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:13 PM

Humans are omnivores. I don't think it is right to see paleo promoted as "low-carb". Fruits and vegetables should be eaten in abundance. The focus of paleo is not restricting carbs, but not eating grains, which is something that all hunter-gatherer cultures have in common, whether the majority of their calories come from meat, or from plant foods. Humans do not need a certain ratio, but humans do need a balance of (the good kinds) of carbs, fat, and protein, instead of being deficient in any of the three.

For example, there is a common practice among paleo dieters of drowning vegetables in butter because it is perceived that the addition of fat makes the vegetables healthier. This is false and promoting this practice is in fact very counter-productive to weight loss. if you constantly add a lot of butter to your food you will become dependent on its taste and flavor rather than growing to appreciate the flavor of the vegetables. When I was vegan I liked to add lots of margarine to my food, and I became fat as a result.

It's not that carbs or fat makes you fat. It is mainly, and I do not apologize to anyone who refuses to accept this, an issue with how many calories you are eating. This is why we see tremendous weight loss success on both low-fat raw vegan and zero-carb carnivore diets, despite how extremely different they are from one another.

Add more fruits and vegetables, avoid high-calorie toppings/condiments, and control your portions so that you are eating less. If you can't do that, you could always exercise more. Michael Phelps eats a huge amount of food, the reason he is not morbidly obese, is because of how active he is.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 21, 2010
at 03:38 AM

Paleo is lowcarb compared to SAD, that is for sure. I am comfortable calling it lowcarb. Also, many vitamins will not digest properly if they are not eaten with fat. Some fat with each meal is probably a good idea for this reason.

947b190e4cb0f4e0356b959d6fa7b50a

(55)

on July 20, 2010
at 02:50 AM

I agree with this, Stancel. During a too long bout of unemployment, we had to really choose our food wisely and make it last a lot longer than normal. It resulted in a consistent drop in daily calories with no snacking (no matter how paleo) between our twice-daily meals. I'm 5'2" and was stalled on weight loss up to that point, this restriction in meal size was what finally got the weight coming off. And I felt better, too. Calories do matter and small women can't ignore them, especially as we age.

424563ee2575f0620ea221badabb40d7

(272)

on July 23, 2010
at 03:39 AM

it's nice to see somebody mention calories, Stancel.

3
A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

on July 22, 2010
at 02:08 PM

I am 5'4 so only a little bit taller... my goal is to achieve 120-ish, at the moment I weight 145 so much more than you, but I would not call myself "chubby". I have just a little bit fat around midsection and legs I would like to see gone. Is there a chance that you have unrealistic goals for your body? Are you too focused on weight instead of health and general "look" (can you see strong muscles, defined lines? do you have a healthy, but not too thick fat cushion?)?

I think the body may be really confused when we change too much too often. Most of the times you can see health results only after months, the system needs to have the time to get used to new way of eating/living. Sudden weight lost is not a signal that "finally something's working" but might be a signal of body's shock, some unbalances that cause the lost.

I would focus most on being and feeling healthy, strong and energetic. And let the body figure out what is the optimal weight for it.

edit: oh, and also - if you are a hard core athlete, you must be pretty well muscled-up. Which means that you should weight more to show it! you are not one of the "skinny fat" ones.

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 23, 2010
at 08:07 PM

There may be a chance of setting unrealistic goals, but I should have mentioned: I was the "skinny fat" girl for most of my life, despite being athletic (running). Non-athletic girls are more muscular than me, so I'm a hard-gainer for muscle, even with the (very) recent addition of crossfit to my reduced endurance regimen. Before the fat gain, I was 26% bodyfat. Having a short AND petite frame might explain why the numbers are a little off from your own. If it seemed like it, I honestly couldn't care less about total weight; it's more the desire to be lower than 20% bodyfat.

3
03b67d2b8e9e878147cb3f225c864207

(761)

on July 19, 2010
at 06:59 PM

6 hours of sleep with a 3 hour nap is not the same as getting a good night sleep. You should be getting 8-9 hours of sleep or more, preferably during the darkest hours of the night, in a completely pitch black room. Also make sure your stress levels are under control. These two things are very important.

As for diet, you should be focusing on getting yourself back to health and not worry about weightloss right now. This means don't restrict carbs, but keep carb intake to yams / sweet potatoes rather than fruit to control fructose intake. Other than yams / sweet potatoes, eat lots of greens like kale, chard, etc.

Keep up your fat with those sources, it sounds like you are doing pretty well. Make sure you are drinking adequate amounts of water.

Keep out all the potential allergin / inflammation causing paleo foods (nightshades, nuts, seeds). You may want to even look at cutting out eggs for now.

Have you looked into a possible iodine deficiency?

Hold off on the workouts for now. Just walk around or do some light hiking to stay active.

Are you getting adequate sunlight daily, and if not are you supplementing Vitamin D? If so, how much are you taking? What about fish oil?

86a7abe4a54c4dc15ea44bacef00c5a8

(523)

on September 04, 2010
at 03:48 PM

I second Gillius' suggestion about looking into inflammation and iodine deficiency. The throat issues you described sound like classic Iodine problems. Try supplementing with Iodoral or adding a significant amount of seaweed, kombu, nori, etc. to your diet. I agree that getting healthy should take priority over losing weight. I know this is sometimes hard to do. About a year ago, I found out I was terribly lacking in Vitamin D (32). My alternative MD recommended 10,000 IU of Vit D3 daily at night. This dosage has slowly brought my levels up to 59 over the last year.

3
E64992e5e224cada4a25ae9e62b326fa

on June 26, 2010
at 03:40 AM

Let me recommend before you go to your doctor and ask to be tested for hypothyroid, PLEASE spend a couple hours reading through the Stop the Thyroid Madness website. Most docs have only the most basic (and pretty useless) knowledge and training on thyroid. They usually order the TSH test -- the thyroid stimulating hormone test -- which test they admit is often inaccurate, and ... oh yeah, it's NOT measuring thyroid hormones at all! It measures the pituitary hormone that is sent out to prod the thyroid to work. (Imagine if you will, the pituitary if the farm wife yelling out the window that lunch is ready. The docs say, if your TSH is "normal" (she yelled), then that proves the 'farmhands' have been fed (i.e., the thyroid has gotten the message AND acted on it. This is very often NOT the case!) Stop the Thyroid Madness has a list of the tests you need, and how to understand the results, and even a letter to take to your doc to invite him to accurately test and treat you, if you need it.

Well well well worth your time!

Good luck!

57feacef8780cc6289f608f3677859f0

(163)

on July 22, 2010
at 08:02 AM

Yeah, STTM is one of the most informative resources I've seen on these issues. When I saw the doctor to have her order the recommended lab tests, she was adamant about "testing only what is pertinent to this moment", TSH and 24hr cortisol. And what if I came out "normal" despite the symptoms? "Then there's nothing to treat." She handed me the lab order with two boxes checked in black ink and curtly bid goodbye. Appalled, I went to the lab, grabbed a black pen, and checked off the boxes for ferritin, Vita D, fT3, fT4, and all the other tests...before handing it off to the phlebotomist :D

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on October 31, 2010
at 02:05 AM

There is a reason for "testing only what is pertinent to [sic] this moment". Namely, one builds a diagnosis through hypothesis testing, which requires piecewise addition of information. Not using this approach makes it easy to misinterpret clinical data. A flood of test results is not a flood of information. That doesn't excuse her "Then there's nothing to treat" remark.

3
Af842c68e3d07fa0e35b4274f3acaeec

on June 22, 2010
at 05:15 PM

One reason for the weight gain(Robb Wolf touched on this in one of his podcasts) is that your gut may be healing and you are only now fully absorbing the nutrients that you have been ingesting. When you remove all of the gut irritants (gluten, grains, legumes, nightshades, etc) there is a possibility of weight gain, even though your insulin sensitivity may improve. This is just another possibility to consider, if you're gaining most of the weight in you're belly region may indicate a cortisol issue, in which you'd need to get certain things under control. Your high training load, you may need to reduce it even further(I know this is hard). Make sure you're getting plenty of sleep, 8-9hrs/night, and try to reduce the stress in your life. Hope this helps!

2
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on June 01, 2010
at 02:58 PM

Perhaps your "bodyfat setpoint" is broken, leptin resistance or another cause.

Intermittent Fasting and forced Calorie control worked me me to target fat, then when I was at my desired weight I let go

once I started gaining, I simply IF a few days until back to target weight. Much later now, I feel my system is repaired and I only eat when I'm hungry

1
Df5fbb677cf14b14a1e2bafabeda3362

on July 19, 2010
at 05:40 PM

So many people are quick to eschew the low-fat approach to losing weight but based on my experience with low-fat/higher carb paleo and low-carb paleo I've been most seccesful with the low fat approach. I don't think low carb works for everyone so you just have to do with whatever works for you.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on July 22, 2010
at 12:50 PM

How long were you low carb? How strict are your carbs(no grain) on your low fat diet?

0
86a7abe4a54c4dc15ea44bacef00c5a8

on September 04, 2010
at 03:49 PM

The strenuous workout schedule has probably been slowly draining your adrenals. It sounds like you are nearing complete adrenal exhaustion, especially with the orthostatic hypotension (lightheadedness upon standing). For adrenal and thyroid support, you might try Natural Sources Raw Adrenal and Raw Thyroid supplements. Both are made from dessicated pig organs and have been useful for my adrenal exhaustion and hypothyroidism. For fatigue, you might also try D-Ribose and L-Glutamine.

0
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on September 01, 2010
at 11:42 PM

Perhaps this will be of use:

http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet.aspx

Also:

Dr. Kurt Harris':

http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/8/27/how-to-lose-weight.html

or Peter Dobromhylslkyj's

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Weight%20loss%20when%20it%27s%20hard%201.

Dr. Kwasnieski's Optimal Diet ratios for losing weight and his recommendations of eating eggs, bone broth and offal have been very helpful for me.

Peter Dobromylskyj explains a good deal about Dr. Kwasniewski's dietary recommendations.

I follow Dr. Harris' list for what to avoid:

http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/

Hope this helps some.

0
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on July 22, 2010
at 12:55 PM

HyperCortisol? Addisons?

Crossfit and heavy dietary changes are stressful

Potentially Also undiagnosed celiac? I'm suspecting that I've developed celiac or a stronger intolerance now, as even miniscule amounts of wheat set me off, feeling sick and glutened

0
Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 03:03 PM

I have also gained weight (fat) eating mostly paleo/low-carb...and it coincided with a lot of muscle gain as a result of a regimen of heavy lifting (and eating). It appears that with the added muscle my body is comfortable with some extra fat to support it. Given your workout regimen, you likely added some muscle as well, and it may be that you need more fat to support your increasingly muscular frame.

In short, although we are eating "naturally" as best we can, some of the workout regimens many of us subject ourselves to may not be so "natural." My body likely wasn't made to support the kind of muscle that I have put on it, so it needs a little more fat to compensate. I think if you stop killing yourself to lose these few pounds, you might start feeling much better.

Good luck!

70d9359a2086e890a4c3bccb2ba8a8cb

(2254)

on July 19, 2010
at 04:56 PM

Just curious... why would added muscle require extra fat to support it? (i.e. what function does the fat perform that helps sustain the muscle?)

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:33 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is really from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat.

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:34 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat to continue functioning optimally.

Fcaeaac15cf6568f2825b230731d5a7d

(529)

on July 19, 2010
at 05:34 PM

I'm really not certain. My opinion on this is from personal experience and anecdotal evidence I've heard from others. Intuitively, it seems to me that if our bodies naturally need a certain amount of fat to function optimally, if we add muscle mass (and perhaps bone density) to that body it would need more fat.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on July 22, 2010
at 12:48 PM

I would think the body seeks homeostasis, given that, more muscle requires more energy. Therefore you need more storage to last the same period as before( if you could go 14 days on stored fat) or whatever the magic internal # is. Think protecting the brain

0
B3c0950cd33bf7689ca0b98e5f2b6cdc

(588)

on June 01, 2010
at 03:23 PM

My wife is Japanese and tried low-carbing once and she just wasn't able to tolerate not having rice in her diet.

Cfccbcf3450ac4919311ded8ef162d49

(2312)

on June 01, 2010
at 04:25 PM

From personal experience, being a filipino and eating rice with every meal for 40+yrs and paleo for the past year, I believe it's a matter of one's willingness to break out of old habits. :-)

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on June 02, 2010
at 12:08 AM

Mark Sisson's new cookbook has a receipe to make "rice" out of cauliflower. This can be used as a replacement for dishes that call for rice. Janet, I agree with the others that you are working yourself too hard. I have an issue with anxiety and when my anxiety is high I store fat quickly, I mean really fast when other times I shed fat. Anxiety and excessive exercise both release cortisol which makes you store extra fat.

-2
4d50026a49a8b497d7d89ea4c3c3a79e

on August 07, 2010
at 01:17 AM

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