4

votes

Low fat cuts of meat?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 13, 2012 at 7:44 PM

So I just ordered this book:

http://www.amazon.ca/Paleo-Diet-Cookbook-Breakfasts-Beverages/dp/0470913045/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344886952&sr=8-1

In it the book states people following the paleo diet should steer clear of fatty cuts of meat?! In my mind this is just plain wrong. What do you paleo hackers think? I'm pretty sure cavemen were all over the fatty cuts of meat when ever they got the chance..

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Store bought ruminant meat, even fatty cuts, aren't bad. It is just missing the Omega-3s the grass fed meat would have, and you can supplement a little with that. I dropped a lot of weight eating regular brisket and pork roasts. I am all for the grass fed thing, but it is the sort of thing you support if and when you can because it makes sense to go in that direction.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:14 PM

Absolutely nothing. I mistakenly posted this in the wrong thread.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Yup, N=1 fat rules the roost. Your own studies can be used to refute your premise so I see no need to post anything. Maybe this: http://www.gnolls.org/2267/you-cant-debunk-everything-how-to-avoid-being-baffled-by-baloney/

6bce08b072e3cea49b292658b9d5d197

(1144)

on August 14, 2012
at 12:05 PM

Nasty, i totally agree with you on one aspect. Self experiment. For me and most people, eating a 60-70% fat diet is MUCH more satiating than a 60-70% carbohydrate diet. Filet Mignon, cheese, and sausage (last night's dinner) will keep me going much, much longer than a plate of pasta and bread.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:36 AM

And in case anyone is still skeptical, how about a simple self-experiment? Drink one pint of heavy whipping cream (1600 kcal) for dinner one evening and record how full/hungry you are afterwards. Then on another evening consume a total of 10 medium baked potatoes (1600 kcal) and rate your subsequent hunger/fullness. Still think that fat promotes satiety?

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:05 AM

Still waiting for someone to post a study to back up JB Primal's claim that fat is extremely satiating (not to pick on JBP as this claim has been parroted by many others here over the years).

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:00 AM

And here's one that Mscott posted earlier today: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104 "The highest SI score was produced by boiled potatoes (323 +/- 51%) which was seven-fold higher than the lowest SI score of the croissant (47 +/- 17%)."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:54 AM

Seeing how you only like to quote the parts that back up your bias, I'm not gonna credit check any further.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:53 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10403587 "With the high protein/high carbohydrate diet, satiety was higher during meals (P < 0.001; P < 0.05), as well as over 24 h (P < 0.001), than with the high fat diet."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Then this from your next ...."In longer term and cross-sectional studies conducted in naturalistic environments, increased ED appears more effective at decreasing food intake and less effective at elevating EI. The available evidence suggests that we should be evolving more complex, multifactor models to account for the observations that both macronutrients and ED affect EI rather than substituting one simplistic model with another."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:48 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8475895 "Eating from a range of either high-fat or high-carbohydrate foods, obese subjects voluntarily consumed twice as much energy from the fat items, thereby indicating a weak action of fat on satiation. In turn, this large intake of fat exerted a disproportionately weak effect on satiety."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Then this revelation "Relatively few studies have investigated the responses of specific fats and fatty acids on food intake. Furthermore, studies have used different fats and fatty acids making it almost impossible to draw conclusions. However, it is clear that not all fats are equal in their effect on appetite and associated biological processes."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Talk about cherry picking.....from your very own study (the next sentence in fact...lol) "Furthermore, lipids suppress later food intake when present in the small intestine of both humans and animals (Welch et al., 1988; Greenberg et al., 1990; Drewe et al., 1992; Woltman and Reidelberger, 1995; Castiglione et al., 1998; Van Wymwlbeke et al., 1998)."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:43 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20553637 "Total daily energy intake was highest after the lipid preload ingestion, but this could be a chance finding since it was not significantly higher than that observed after protein or carbohydrate preload ingestion."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:42 AM

http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/1777 "In a 24 h respiration chamber study we showed a higher satiety and a higher diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) on a high protein high carbohydrate diet than on a high fat diet."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:39 AM

http://www.glycemic-index.org/satiety-index.html "Surprisingly, fatty foods do not come up high on the satiety index list, as the body responds to fat as something to be stored for a period of scarcity, rather than something to be used immediately, the gut doesn’t stop sending hunger signals as soon, so we go on wanting to eat more."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:37 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11186237 "Under normal conditions where fat contributes disproportionately to ED, protein, carbohydrate, and fat exert hierarchical effects on satiety in the order protein >carbohydrate > fat."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:36 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53550/ "Preload studies have shown that fat exerts the weakest effect on satiety compared to carbohydrate and protein, suggesting that fat may lead to 'passive overconsumption'"

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:58 PM

@Nasty, please cite some sources.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:57 PM

foreveryoung, what does Dr. Mercola have to do with it? This is a Cordain book.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:52 PM

Dr. Mercola is quack-tastic.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Honestly, how often do you think HGs hunt animals that large?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Protein is highly satiating....eating it with a good proportion of fat is quite "healthy" from a number of perspectives....most have been put forth in the PHD, PB, and even on this site. I've never seen anything to indicate that fat was "the least" satiating though.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 13, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I'm not aware of any studies that have found fat to be particularly satiating. In fact, all the studies I've seen have fount fat to be the least satiating macronutrient.

1ef2c3bfd6bb37877b02fddc819bebac

(399)

on August 13, 2012
at 08:54 PM

This is my understanding. Avoid fatty meats because the quality of it and what is stored in it is no bueno for the body. We don't feed our cows grass, we feed them grain, and what follows is a cow made up of a bad fat content and contaminants. If you had grass fed meat it would be different. Just my take on "The Paleo Diet" book. Then, replace the fat with acceptable fats. I think they recommend olive oil and avocado etc so as not to risk the low vitamin A etc.

11b7b7ba720a5cd43c74a0ef99a16adb

(3448)

on August 13, 2012
at 08:54 PM

+1 You're right. The advice is just plain wrong.

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6 Answers

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3
6bce08b072e3cea49b292658b9d5d197

on August 13, 2012
at 08:51 PM

Oh, the low fat dogma still exists even in Paleo circles. Fat is vitally important for us to eat.

One, it's extremely satiating. It will keep you feeling great for hours, sometimes the entire day. Two, if your diet is 100% dialed in as it should be and you are fat adapted, your body will use dietary fat as fuel, leaving the protein to fix and repair your body.

I read somewhere (sorry I can't put my hands on the article) that there is ample evidence of hunter-gatherers, Native Americans, Inuits, etc, that specifically target the fat of the animal and leave the lean meat behind.

Eat the Fat!

http://www.jbprimal.com

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:37 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11186237 "Under normal conditions where fat contributes disproportionately to ED, protein, carbohydrate, and fat exert hierarchical effects on satiety in the order protein >carbohydrate > fat."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:36 AM

And in case anyone is still skeptical, how about a simple self-experiment? Drink one pint of heavy whipping cream (1600 kcal) for dinner one evening and record how full/hungry you are afterwards. Then on another evening consume a total of 10 medium baked potatoes (1600 kcal) and rate your subsequent hunger/fullness. Still think that fat promotes satiety?

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:05 AM

Still waiting for someone to post a study to back up JB Primal's claim that fat is extremely satiating (not to pick on JBP as this claim has been parroted by many others here over the years).

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:39 AM

http://www.glycemic-index.org/satiety-index.html "Surprisingly, fatty foods do not come up high on the satiety index list, as the body responds to fat as something to be stored for a period of scarcity, rather than something to be used immediately, the gut doesn’t stop sending hunger signals as soon, so we go on wanting to eat more."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:36 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53550/ "Preload studies have shown that fat exerts the weakest effect on satiety compared to carbohydrate and protein, suggesting that fat may lead to 'passive overconsumption'"

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:53 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10403587 "With the high protein/high carbohydrate diet, satiety was higher during meals (P < 0.001; P < 0.05), as well as over 24 h (P < 0.001), than with the high fat diet."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Then this revelation "Relatively few studies have investigated the responses of specific fats and fatty acids on food intake. Furthermore, studies have used different fats and fatty acids making it almost impossible to draw conclusions. However, it is clear that not all fats are equal in their effect on appetite and associated biological processes."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Protein is highly satiating....eating it with a good proportion of fat is quite "healthy" from a number of perspectives....most have been put forth in the PHD, PB, and even on this site. I've never seen anything to indicate that fat was "the least" satiating though.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 04:00 AM

And here's one that Mscott posted earlier today: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104 "The highest SI score was produced by boiled potatoes (323 +/- 51%) which was seven-fold higher than the lowest SI score of the croissant (47 +/- 17%)."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:54 AM

Seeing how you only like to quote the parts that back up your bias, I'm not gonna credit check any further.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:42 AM

http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/1777 "In a 24 h respiration chamber study we showed a higher satiety and a higher diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) on a high protein high carbohydrate diet than on a high fat diet."

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:58 PM

@Nasty, please cite some sources.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:43 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20553637 "Total daily energy intake was highest after the lipid preload ingestion, but this could be a chance finding since it was not significantly higher than that observed after protein or carbohydrate preload ingestion."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:45 AM

Talk about cherry picking.....from your very own study (the next sentence in fact...lol) "Furthermore, lipids suppress later food intake when present in the small intestine of both humans and animals (Welch et al., 1988; Greenberg et al., 1990; Drewe et al., 1992; Woltman and Reidelberger, 1995; Castiglione et al., 1998; Van Wymwlbeke et al., 1998)."

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Then this from your next ...."In longer term and cross-sectional studies conducted in naturalistic environments, increased ED appears more effective at decreasing food intake and less effective at elevating EI. The available evidence suggests that we should be evolving more complex, multifactor models to account for the observations that both macronutrients and ED affect EI rather than substituting one simplistic model with another."

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 13, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I'm not aware of any studies that have found fat to be particularly satiating. In fact, all the studies I've seen have fount fat to be the least satiating macronutrient.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on August 14, 2012
at 03:48 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8475895 "Eating from a range of either high-fat or high-carbohydrate foods, obese subjects voluntarily consumed twice as much energy from the fat items, thereby indicating a weak action of fat on satiation. In turn, this large intake of fat exerted a disproportionately weak effect on satiety."

6bce08b072e3cea49b292658b9d5d197

(1144)

on August 14, 2012
at 12:05 PM

Nasty, i totally agree with you on one aspect. Self experiment. For me and most people, eating a 60-70% fat diet is MUCH more satiating than a 60-70% carbohydrate diet. Filet Mignon, cheese, and sausage (last night's dinner) will keep me going much, much longer than a plate of pasta and bread.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 14, 2012
at 07:31 PM

Yup, N=1 fat rules the roost. Your own studies can be used to refute your premise so I see no need to post anything. Maybe this: http://www.gnolls.org/2267/you-cant-debunk-everything-how-to-avoid-being-baffled-by-baloney/

4
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 13, 2012
at 08:46 PM

High protein, low fat diets are a great way to deplete your body of vitamin A (a fat soluble vitamin that is necessary for protein utilization).

http://www.westonaprice.org/mens-health/vitamin-a-forgotten-bodybuilding-nutrient

This is just one of many sources for this information.

4
45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on August 13, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Another issue for us, health-wise, is what's in that fat. Ruminants raised on grass without antibiotics and grains will have a healthier fat profile than their factory-farmed counterparts. Often the admonition to avoid fatty cuts and fat in general assumes the consumption of the latter.

I didn't check the publishing date, but the fear of fat has motivated many for some time. It's a hard one to let go, it seems.

1ef2c3bfd6bb37877b02fddc819bebac

(399)

on August 13, 2012
at 08:54 PM

This is my understanding. Avoid fatty meats because the quality of it and what is stored in it is no bueno for the body. We don't feed our cows grass, we feed them grain, and what follows is a cow made up of a bad fat content and contaminants. If you had grass fed meat it would be different. Just my take on "The Paleo Diet" book. Then, replace the fat with acceptable fats. I think they recommend olive oil and avocado etc so as not to risk the low vitamin A etc.

2
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 13, 2012
at 07:59 PM

I'm sure HGs were "all over fatty cuts of meat when ever they got the chance," but the question that remains is, "how often did they get that chance?" WHen you look at modern HGs, the animals they're consuming on a day-to-day basis are quite lean, small gazelles, squirrels, and lots of birds. Roasting over a fire isn't an effective way of rendering the fat either, and from what I've seen in videos, the fatty intestines are fed to the dogs. It is likely that our ancestors, like all other meat eating animals, treasured the organs for their nutrient density-of which animal fat provids none-and ate those first.

0
F6b28b8f67467af0337a0381a6857f4f

(203)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:02 PM

thank you for the responses. I wish I could find more grass fed meat in my Area. I live in Edmonton Alberta.. does anyone know a good source for this kind of meat? I like ribs, steak, drumsticks and wings too much to go for lean only cuts!

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Store bought ruminant meat, even fatty cuts, aren't bad. It is just missing the Omega-3s the grass fed meat would have, and you can supplement a little with that. I dropped a lot of weight eating regular brisket and pork roasts. I am all for the grass fed thing, but it is the sort of thing you support if and when you can because it makes sense to go in that direction.

0
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:36 PM

Yeah, this has been covered. Seeing as there are some new faces though here is that ever so useful picture of some "lean" meat http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/4/7/lean-grass-fed-bison-images.html.

Yup if your a HG that just struck this puppy down you'd find a way to ingest all that "leanness".

I've seen a couple threads like this lately, so I figured a little throw back answer would work. They ate all the animal. Animals were not exactly hard to come by. They prefer eating animals....but when the hunt fails they eat other stuff (plants).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 13, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Honestly, how often do you think HGs hunt animals that large?

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