4

votes

If animals store toxins in their fat, wouldn't a high fat diet be high toxin diet?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created May 26, 2012 at 4:48 PM

If animals store toxins in their fat, wouldn't eating a high animal/fish fat diet mean eating a high toxin diet?

Mercury, dioxin, pcbs, Prozac, estrogen all these things are floating around our environment and are concentrated in the fats of the animals we eat, both in pastued and industrially raised.And of we all know course grassfed and organic may have toxins less than grain fed. And pastured has more good stuff.

This we all know and agree, so let's not focus on the benefits of grassfed. But the physiology of toxins being lipophilic, fat storing the toxins, or whatever mechanism I hear in CW that fat stores the toxins. How does the biochemistry work and affect us?

Are there good comparison studies on the toxins in animal fats you could share?

We often hear that that as you lose stubborn fat, toxins from them are being released in your body making u feel awful. As a community we are quick to jump on toxins and anti-nutrients in grains, legumes etc. What about toxins in fats?

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on June 02, 2012
at 10:40 AM

Ive always thought that a "real" paleo diet is when a person consumes foods that do not need to be processed via man. In a way im against butter, bottled pasteurized milk. Paleo people did not consume this.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:46 PM

If you can't find the time to prepare on-the-go meals, you must take what you get.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:50 PM

The difference is that fat is low in toxins if the diet is low in toxins. Eat healthy animals fed wholesome food and the fat/meat/milk has a relatively low toxin load.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 27, 2012
at 03:16 PM

If you are on the go and eat in restaurants, you often can't find grassfed organics either.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 27, 2012
at 03:14 PM

What is the difference whether the toxins gravitate to the fat or storing the toxins when we eat them?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:48 AM

@Av0905 Bulletproof is not alienating anybody. It is just a diet. You either do it or you don't do it.

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:35 AM

It's also more environmentally sustainable, more profitable per acre, and able to feed more folks per acre (a separate variable from that preceding it).

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:35 AM

It isn't alienating anyone. Bulletproof is one version of a Paleo diet. If a family cannot afford pastured meat, they can modify the diet to suit their needs. This isn't a religion. It isn't "one way or the highway."

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Subtle, but crucial distinction.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on May 27, 2012
at 04:17 AM

Sulfur and nitrogen are not heavy metals. The heavy metal toxins most commonly associated with fish oil are mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, and nickel.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 27, 2012
at 01:18 AM

oops 3x is more like it for increased metal concentration in liver and kidneys vs lean meat.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 26, 2012
at 09:38 PM

I'm guessing that mercury concentrates in the protein of bottom fish that live around it. I'd stay away from eating their entrails, which would be even more concentrated.

Ed4b1d1f6a22f40d1cac48523b1cfbc9

(124)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:10 PM

This response always gets me. There are areas where grassfed meats, raw dairy, etc are nonexistent or families that cannot fit them into their budget. Period. No one is arguing they aren't ideal. But "Bulletproof" is alienating these people. Should these families not eat meat at all?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Heavy metals like sulfur and nitrogen, so they tend to associate with proteins (which is why fish oil is generally free of heavy metal contamination).

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:28 PM

Also...just as the benefits of breast feeding outweigh the risks of potential toxin exposure, the benefits of eating responsibly raised animals and their fat outweigh the risks. Big takeaway? A perfect world would be a cleaner one, where toxins are not ingested in the first place. I will focus my energy towards the environment and away from the pseudoscience of "detox" diets and procedures.

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Ok, I guess, fat loss due to diet and exercise does release toxins into the blood stream, but it appears to me that the most efficient mechanism for the toxins to leave the body altogether is thru breast feeding. Good reason to clean up our environment. I'm not convinced that "detox diets" or procedures work. Probably the best way to optimize the removal of toxins from your body, is to do everything possible to support the function of your liver.

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:23 PM

I'll try to find the literature...

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:15 PM

"Breast feeding is the only mechanism for toxins to leave our fat cells." ...you're gonna have to back that one up...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:59 PM

Yeah, man. I just did a pubmed search and it seems like the conclusion is that the levels contained in diary are just too small to have any negative health impact.

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:53 PM

The first study you linked to said, "Equilibrium dialysis of skim milk with hydrogen 3 labeled estrogens showed that 84 to 85% of estrone and estradiol and 61 to 66% of estriol were protein bound." So fat may not be the culprit here if most is etrogen is bound to protein? And the measurement was 1 picogram per milliliter, a picogram is one trillionth of a gram. I'm not sure that this is cause for concern. Any studies on dairy consumption and negative effects caused by estrogen? Appreciate all the studies on this.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:38 PM

I'll be interested in hearing the answers and your conclusions, because I've honestly been weary of dairy for so long and the IGF-1 and estrogen are some of the main reasons for that. I still eat dairy fat, but just not daily or in huge amounts.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:35 PM

apparently this is a good study which seems to be widely cited, but I can't find the actual text right now. rlow, D.W., et al. (2009). Quantitative measurement of endogenous estrogen metabolites, risk factors for development of breast cancer, in commercial milk products by LC-MS/MS. J Chromto B. 877(13):1327-1334

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:33 PM

I'm also pretty sure I once saw something showing estrogen content in varying milk products, with skim milk having the least, which led me to the conclusion that estrogen is predominantly stored in the fat of milk products. This is honestly the main reason I don't make butter a huge part of my fat intake, but I could be overreacting, idk.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:31 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/512140 THis one says that E2 in whole holstein cow's milk is rather low low compared to endogenous production. Again, the specific values mean nothing to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Here's one that talks about the specific concentrations in various dairy products, but I honestly have no idea what these numbers mean. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/512140

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

Well, you'd want to avoid animal fat that's been exposed to greasy chemicals. That's why pasture-raised meats are important, antibiotic-free. You're minimizing your exposure to such compounds.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 26, 2012
at 05:14 PM

Scary stuff Diane.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 26, 2012
at 05:04 PM

@foreveryoung-- really interested in seeing those if you can share.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:01 PM

I have seen studies finding massive amounts of estrogen and IGF-1 in butter/milk fat, stating that dairy fat is the number one source of estrogen and other exogenous hormones in the human diet.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 26, 2012
at 04:59 PM

Does it make a difference when you eat fat with lipophilic compounds in them?

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6 Answers

7
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 26, 2012
at 04:58 PM

Animals don't store toxins in their fat, fat simply tends to accumulate fat-soluble compounds. Important difference.

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Subtle, but crucial distinction.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:23 PM

Well, you'd want to avoid animal fat that's been exposed to greasy chemicals. That's why pasture-raised meats are important, antibiotic-free. You're minimizing your exposure to such compounds.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 26, 2012
at 04:59 PM

Does it make a difference when you eat fat with lipophilic compounds in them?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:50 PM

The difference is that fat is low in toxins if the diet is low in toxins. Eat healthy animals fed wholesome food and the fat/meat/milk has a relatively low toxin load.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 27, 2012
at 03:14 PM

What is the difference whether the toxins gravitate to the fat or storing the toxins when we eat them?

4
18cc72d6b6902b69f00313c2a3004f25

on May 26, 2012
at 05:02 PM

If you're talking about what's in the environment that's getting into these animals, even the grass fed, well then it's also getting into your fruits and vegetables and drinking water. The goal is to reduce toxic load. The clean raised animals will have no additional toxins from the industrial style of raising. In my opinion the benefits of eating Paleo and clean far outweigh the results of eating industrial food. The high vegetables in the diet naturally detoxify your body. We can't avoid toxins altogether. But we can reduce the toxic load so as not to tip the scale, so to speak. If you Google grass-fed meat companies, they provide plenty of research on the benefits of that type of meat.

8496289baf18c2d3e210740614dc9082

(1867)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:35 AM

It's also more environmentally sustainable, more profitable per acre, and able to feed more folks per acre (a separate variable from that preceding it).

3
B21515ab063324ad5b374b0866aef2d0

on May 26, 2012
at 05:01 PM

I would answer this question, "Yes, if their food supply contains toxins." This is one of the main tennants of the Bulletproof Diet (modified Paleo). On Bulletproof, you're encouraged to only eat protein sources from Grass-Fed animals, and pasture-raised chickens. All fish should be wild-caught, not farmed (farmed = grain fed).

In my case, my diet consists mainly of pastured eggs from the farmers market ($7/doz) and grass-fed beef from Safeway ($7.99/lb) or US Wellness Foods (Mail Order, about $6/lb).

Ed4b1d1f6a22f40d1cac48523b1cfbc9

(124)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:10 PM

This response always gets me. There are areas where grassfed meats, raw dairy, etc are nonexistent or families that cannot fit them into their budget. Period. No one is arguing they aren't ideal. But "Bulletproof" is alienating these people. Should these families not eat meat at all?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:35 AM

It isn't alienating anyone. Bulletproof is one version of a Paleo diet. If a family cannot afford pastured meat, they can modify the diet to suit their needs. This isn't a religion. It isn't "one way or the highway."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:48 AM

@Av0905 Bulletproof is not alienating anybody. It is just a diet. You either do it or you don't do it.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 27, 2012
at 05:46 PM

If you can't find the time to prepare on-the-go meals, you must take what you get.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 27, 2012
at 03:16 PM

If you are on the go and eat in restaurants, you often can't find grassfed organics either.

1
Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:43 PM

Organic compounds such as pesticides and hormones end up in fat. Heavy metals concentrate in the liver and kidneys. If you follow iron you'll get an idea: 3x higher level than in muscle meat.

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Heavy metals like sulfur and nitrogen, so they tend to associate with proteins (which is why fish oil is generally free of heavy metal contamination).

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 26, 2012
at 09:38 PM

I'm guessing that mercury concentrates in the protein of bottom fish that live around it. I'd stay away from eating their entrails, which would be even more concentrated.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 27, 2012
at 01:18 AM

oops 3x is more like it for increased metal concentration in liver and kidneys vs lean meat.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on May 27, 2012
at 04:17 AM

Sulfur and nitrogen are not heavy metals. The heavy metal toxins most commonly associated with fish oil are mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, and nickel.

1
20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:12 PM

Thats why i belive in reducing one's exposure to such toxins( not to mention the pathogens transmited due to poorly confinment, fesis contact, and so on) by either grab as many grass fed as you can and fish, and by all means if you get commonly raised meat, poultry get the leanest cuts you can get. I Live with my parents, and I cannot cocntrol all the meat, and sometimes have to eat inferior quality meat, but when i do i make sure it is either chicken breast, turkey or lean cuts of pork.

I'm now grasping for the Summer to come, since with it will come the sardines and mackarel, and we have fish barbecues at least one time per week. YUM

0
4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

on May 26, 2012
at 05:13 PM

I remember reading somewhere that our bodies don't release toxins as our fat cells shrink. Breast feeding is the only mechanism for toxins to leave our fat cells.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:15 PM

"Breast feeding is the only mechanism for toxins to leave our fat cells." ...you're gonna have to back that one up...

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:23 PM

I'll try to find the literature...

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on May 26, 2012
at 05:14 PM

Scary stuff Diane.

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Ok, I guess, fat loss due to diet and exercise does release toxins into the blood stream, but it appears to me that the most efficient mechanism for the toxins to leave the body altogether is thru breast feeding. Good reason to clean up our environment. I'm not convinced that "detox diets" or procedures work. Probably the best way to optimize the removal of toxins from your body, is to do everything possible to support the function of your liver.

4c889a21961e6790290f724048f69aca

(30)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:28 PM

Also...just as the benefits of breast feeding outweigh the risks of potential toxin exposure, the benefits of eating responsibly raised animals and their fat outweigh the risks. Big takeaway? A perfect world would be a cleaner one, where toxins are not ingested in the first place. I will focus my energy towards the environment and away from the pseudoscience of "detox" diets and procedures.

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