2

votes

High Fat/Low Carb Triggers Overeating

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 20, 2012 at 12:31 AM

Has anyone else found that eating a VLC diet high in fats, especially animal saturated fats, is correlated with a higher incidence of craving for fatty foods such as cheese, heavy cream, coconut butter, etc and subsequent FAT gain? I have only had luck losing weight on a paleo PSMF, but always get hung up moving into maintenance. Both times I decided to just up my fats and stay VLC but find myself craving uncured dry sausage, butter by itself, cheese, spoonfuls of coconut butter and eating past the point of fullness because I am craving it. I don't know if it is correlated with the drop in leptin- i hate doing refeeds because a)I'm not that lean, and b) they make me feel like utter crap no matter how low my fructose is and how clean it is. I also am very active when not on PSMF- swimming, paddle boarding, biking, tabata, weights, etc. and I IF 18/6 right now- longer window when not PSMF. I am wondering if I should just force myself to do the refeed to up leptin before I transition or move into a carb cycling diet once these 4 weeks are up as maybe VLC just isn't for me?

edit: So after reading through the helpful comments, I am wondering if there is anyone who switched to a higher carb (not high carb, but above 25g) and saw am amelioration in their cravings for fat

31381cfeb5d6da6fc75f80ab68e041ea

(560)

on June 16, 2012
at 06:54 PM

AI88, how is 2000 calories a day not ok? please don't let fashion magazines freak you out.

0faecc3397025eab246241f4dcd81f5e

(2361)

on May 21, 2012
at 10:44 PM

Everyone is different, but the starting point I use for most clients is 2 g per kg protein per day, plus the same in carbs, and a little added fat per meal if any. This works for active insulin sensitive overweight people

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 21, 2012
at 03:35 PM

I have kept my carbs at less than 15g and still had theis problem- even when I tried the Leptin reset and had a fatty, 50g protein breakfast I still had cravings at night and during the day. I have found I have less cravings on PSMF, but of course you start to get preoccupied with food due to its restriction.

2965fdc9b18493242a114c8b1daa436b

(48)

on May 21, 2012
at 03:19 PM

I have craved fat on a ketogenic diet before, normally it was in the evening and discovered I just wasn't eating enough for breakfast and lunch. I started having larger breakfasts and the cravings went away. The only other time is when I am thirsty, sometimes it is easy to mistake thirst for hunger. If you want to eat fat and not count the calories you need to keep your carbs lower. PMSF develops an unhealthy relationship with food, and does not provide the benefits of ketogenic or other low carb diets.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 21, 2012
at 05:25 AM

@ April. Thanks for the info.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 11:00 PM

Ah, yes, I actually have an 8 week reintroduction period where I slowly add fats back one meal at a time- I am just wondering with all that activity if I should cycle carbs so I do not set myself up

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 20, 2012
at 08:48 PM

Yes when I have a day with more activity I usually hit about 100 g of carbs that day-- something like 2 small sweet potatoes (or 1 really big one!). Then on days where I am sitting around (which is rare) I will stick to cruciferous veggies-- I usually don't track these, but you can't really over-eat on spinach so it usually remains below 50 g on these days.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 20, 2012
at 04:43 PM

JASmith - I am advocating that you do not bounce between two extremes. If you want to follow along with PSMF, feel free to do so, but taper back to a classic VLC diet by taking your psmf and gradually re-introducing fats. By flip-flopping between very, very low fat to a diet very high in fat, you are setting yourself up for binge behavior.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Also, I did eat the fat and not count the calories and I got fat, and PSMF is a bit more technical than you splayed it out to be April

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:44 PM

I meant to phrase that more as a comparison to different metabolisms- exactly what Warren said- if it's working for you then that's what you need to trust not some arbitrary set number.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Also, out of curiosity, are you suggesting that going back to a more moderate fat intake would then reduce chances of the "atkins to carb" weight gain dilemma? I hate not thought of it this way before...

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:34 PM

And by extra fats I mean trying to aim for true ketogenic levels . I don't have much access to pastured meats (i'm on a island) so I have to eat lean ones anyways

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:32 PM

I also keep cheese to a once a month treat- usually only at nice restaurants and never bring it into the house unless its for a dinner party and I know it will be gone the next day

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:31 PM

I agree...I was a competitive swimmer when I was younger and the HC/LF paradigm reined supreme at my house so giving the go ahead to things like bacon and butter (pastured of course) seems to overwhelm me

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:29 PM

So do you cycle them- high w/o days, VLC other and if so what constitutes a high one on grams?

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:20 PM

Thank you for your comment, I have gone through many of these same arguments myself. The fact is, when I first switched over via Schwarzbein I bought into the "it takes time to heal and you may gain, etc, etc" for 1 year and...gained and felt very uncomfortable. When you feel so darn uncomfortable in your skin right now it is pretty hard to keep playing the wait around game, however, basic paleo is what I will be going back to sans the extra fats

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:16 PM

I'm 5'7 and 155# (mesomorph bodytype) and gain fat on VLC with anything over 1500 cals even being extremely active

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:15 PM

What are you calling moderate carb? I did Paleo with 135g for 3 months before without any luck losing and gained some, but that was due to still having somf GF/sugary treat on weekends so I am willing to up the carbs after though start slow

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:13 PM

Ok, I just restarted PSMF 4 days ago- my question is referring to when I was eating VLC for 6 months with PLENTY of fat and still craving. And you don't actually gain everythign back on your refeed- water weight yes, if done properly, but not fat.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on May 20, 2012
at 12:19 PM

600 calories doesn't sound like a good size meal...

2965fdc9b18493242a114c8b1daa436b

(48)

on May 20, 2012
at 08:39 AM

So you are on a calorie restricted diet and wonder why you are craving fat? Ignore the calorie counting and eat the fat, the weight will still drop off as long as you don't eat carbs. I lost 20kg on ketogenic diet, 8kg in the first month alone but I eliminated carbs completely.

Medium avatar

(10663)

on May 20, 2012
at 06:13 AM

@Warren Protein Sparing Modified Fast. Basically very high protein, VLC, and very calorie restricted (1000 cals or less a day). Also involves not being very active and generally goes for 2-4 weeks at a time. I've read about this on bodybuilding.com where dudes just eat chicken breast and broccoli day in and day out.......... And when you refeed, you gain pretty much most of the weight back.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 20, 2012
at 05:29 AM

I tend to need quite a lot of calories even when my activity level seems low. Unless you are gaining fat, it is ok.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 20, 2012
at 05:24 AM

....ATKINS.....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 20, 2012
at 05:22 AM

.What is PSMF?.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 20, 2012
at 01:33 AM

Do that which works and discard that which does not.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 20, 2012
at 01:31 AM

You're going to hear alot of dogmatic support for low-carbism. I recommend taking it all with a grain of salt and following your intuition.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 12:32 AM

I should specify that these cravings were after having eaten a good size meal- 600 cals

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6 Answers

13
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 20, 2012
at 01:04 AM

So, you've been on a diet restricting fats (PSMF) and when you re-introduce fats your body is telling you to go crazy on them?

Go figure.

Ever know someone on Adkins that lost considerable amounts of weight, decided to go back to "eating normal" and gained it all back due to carb binges?

It's a very similar conundrum... just a different macronutrient.

From what you have written, I see a couple red flags here...
1. You have tried a PSMF multiple times.
2. You seem to be quite educated on different diets specifically targeted at weightloss.
3. You admit that you are heavier than you want.
4. The point of your original post is in regards to classic "binge" behavior.

Those 4 statements are very similar to my own life experiences, and I can tell you that you are following the verbatim pattern of a yo-yo dieter (as I have for most of my adult life).

My advice is to boil down a paleo diet to it's basics, avoid foods that you specifically know that target binges (dairy seems to be your trigger food from what you have written), and whatever you do, do not continue to bounce from Paleo to a PSMF!

On a PSMF you can feel quite deprived, and by re-introducing a higher fat diet your body is likely telling you "This is good! Do this!" - this is the type of programming you've given it by restricting fat so severely...

So, boil down paleo to the basics. Meat, fish, berries, veggies, even tubers if you want to eat some carb, use only virgin, unprocessed oils to cook with, avoid foods that likely cause a binge trigger... and most importantly... avoid deviation solely base on chasing "results", until you've given your current path a proper chance to work (which will take awhile).

Again, apologies if I am way off base here - but your experience is quite similar to my own.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 11:00 PM

Ah, yes, I actually have an 8 week reintroduction period where I slowly add fats back one meal at a time- I am just wondering with all that activity if I should cycle carbs so I do not set myself up

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Also, out of curiosity, are you suggesting that going back to a more moderate fat intake would then reduce chances of the "atkins to carb" weight gain dilemma? I hate not thought of it this way before...

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:34 PM

And by extra fats I mean trying to aim for true ketogenic levels . I don't have much access to pastured meats (i'm on a island) so I have to eat lean ones anyways

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 20, 2012
at 05:24 AM

....ATKINS.....

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 20, 2012
at 04:43 PM

JASmith - I am advocating that you do not bounce between two extremes. If you want to follow along with PSMF, feel free to do so, but taper back to a classic VLC diet by taking your psmf and gradually re-introducing fats. By flip-flopping between very, very low fat to a diet very high in fat, you are setting yourself up for binge behavior.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:20 PM

Thank you for your comment, I have gone through many of these same arguments myself. The fact is, when I first switched over via Schwarzbein I bought into the "it takes time to heal and you may gain, etc, etc" for 1 year and...gained and felt very uncomfortable. When you feel so darn uncomfortable in your skin right now it is pretty hard to keep playing the wait around game, however, basic paleo is what I will be going back to sans the extra fats

2
44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on May 20, 2012
at 06:07 AM

cheese, heavy cream, coconut butter, are foods that are on the processed side. I cant moderate my cheese habbits, so i rarely buy it (once a month as a cheat). I go for more paleo type unprocessed fats. Like whole coconut, avocado, bone marrow, fish roe. I eat fishroe almost every morning, as they are now cheap and in season As much i like marrow, i have never binged on it. But i do eat sometimes little too much whole coconuts. Propably becouse they are much more novel food in my area.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:32 PM

I also keep cheese to a once a month treat- usually only at nice restaurants and never bring it into the house unless its for a dinner party and I know it will be gone the next day

0
8d979bd4cf7036400254a9417638616d

on May 20, 2012
at 07:47 AM

It's a good point for me too... However I haven't been gaining weight but it has made it harder for me to go below 15% body fat (men). I think a reason I don't gain weight is because I do intermitent fasting 1-2 times a week and often I will skip 2 meals when I do it.

But ya, all the delicious fat you grew up thinking were bad being accesible to you definitely makes me indulge a LOT in them now, I probably destroy the 2k daily calories I used to take now... I put butter/coconut milk on my meat, in my coffee.. in my hot chocolate.. on my spinach... It all adds up.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:31 PM

I agree...I was a competitive swimmer when I was younger and the HC/LF paradigm reined supreme at my house so giving the go ahead to things like bacon and butter (pastured of course) seems to overwhelm me

0
0faecc3397025eab246241f4dcd81f5e

(2361)

on May 20, 2012
at 02:59 AM

YES, high fat, low carb, simply does not work for me and some others I know. I just dont feel satisfied after a meal, and just want to keep eating fat. Then I feel disgusting an hour later and all the fat hits my system, and dont lose weight.

A moderate carb, minimal added fat to meals plus protein and I feel just right, with gooe appetite control and weight management. I dont eat super lean meat though - not fat phobic, just eat normal meat or whole eggs.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:15 PM

What are you calling moderate carb? I did Paleo with 135g for 3 months before without any luck losing and gained some, but that was due to still having somf GF/sugary treat on weekends so I am willing to up the carbs after though start slow

0faecc3397025eab246241f4dcd81f5e

(2361)

on May 21, 2012
at 10:44 PM

Everyone is different, but the starting point I use for most clients is 2 g per kg protein per day, plus the same in carbs, and a little added fat per meal if any. This works for active insulin sensitive overweight people

0
592fdaa77ec6342b736f1d25962aab7f

(547)

on May 20, 2012
at 01:35 AM

I'm curious as well although I'm not craving or snacking but just eating a ton for 2-3 meals. I've done VLC before but didn't track calories. I have a nifty iPhone app I've been using to count carbs but I've also noticed I eat 2000-2500 calories a day now. That can't be okay for someone 125 lb and 5'7", right?!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 20, 2012
at 05:29 AM

I tend to need quite a lot of calories even when my activity level seems low. Unless you are gaining fat, it is ok.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:16 PM

I'm 5'7 and 155# (mesomorph bodytype) and gain fat on VLC with anything over 1500 cals even being extremely active

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:44 PM

I meant to phrase that more as a comparison to different metabolisms- exactly what Warren said- if it's working for you then that's what you need to trust not some arbitrary set number.

31381cfeb5d6da6fc75f80ab68e041ea

(560)

on June 16, 2012
at 06:54 PM

AI88, how is 2000 calories a day not ok? please don't let fashion magazines freak you out.

0
93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 20, 2012
at 01:35 AM

Yes I have definitely experienced this. So now to stabilize cravings I switch up my carb levels daily depending on what I need. Sometimes your body craves all that fat because it is starving for any kind of fuel. Whenever I get this I eat more carbs- sweet potatoes won't kill! Listen to your body it is the best advice I've ever taken I feel so much happier and healthier!

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 20, 2012
at 08:48 PM

Yes when I have a day with more activity I usually hit about 100 g of carbs that day-- something like 2 small sweet potatoes (or 1 really big one!). Then on days where I am sitting around (which is rare) I will stick to cruciferous veggies-- I usually don't track these, but you can't really over-eat on spinach so it usually remains below 50 g on these days.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 20, 2012
at 03:29 PM

So do you cycle them- high w/o days, VLC other and if so what constitutes a high one on grams?

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