2

votes

High carb/low carb fasting ability

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 31, 2012 at 4:23 PM

I know that the whole paleo community has learned to become increasingly macronutrient agnostic, but I was wondering if anyone who has experimented with both sides of the spectrum--high carb and high fat-- can discuss which approach afforded an easier time fasting/being able to get work done without being fettered by having to eat.

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:27 PM

hahahah like this response.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 03, 2012
at 06:07 AM

Potato, how is NPY being raised by carbs only true in a vacuum? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10612704 "These results demonstrate that hypothalamic NPY can change rapidly in response to dietary carbohydrate"

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on August 01, 2012
at 08:35 AM

Leangains is 16/8!

Dfe1dfb34939145fe21b3d8fa6832365

(657)

on August 01, 2012
at 01:38 AM

I don't do it so strictly anymore though, fasting 20 hours everyday just wore me down after almost a year.

Dfe1dfb34939145fe21b3d8fa6832365

(657)

on August 01, 2012
at 01:37 AM

Initially I was eating 3000 calories a night of vegan foods (quinoa, beans, amaranth). Now eating more paleo I just use a lot of lard, haha.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 09:39 PM

Sorry, I should have specified. I was speaking specifically to fat/carbohydrate levels. Protein seems to help maintain muscle in an energy deficit, of course. If you are in fact referencing there being a difference between low-carb/high-carb diets, I've yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 07:56 PM

@ ben I do more of a 23/1 and average 2200 calories on the days I do it. I'm 5'9" 160lbs male.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 31, 2012
at 07:00 PM

20/4? Wow. How many calories you manage to get in in that four hours? I ask because I struggle to get my goal 3000 calories in my 8 hours. Are you eating a high calorie diet?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:55 PM

Meh, jogging can be done vastly aerobic. Especially when fat adapted. And yes studies do indicate that being fat adapted shifts your primary fuel burned when exercising AND that you utilize fat for fuel at even higher intensities based on this shift. No need to ramp up carbs if you don't want to at a jogging pace IMO. If you want to though....hey nobody stopping you.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:51 PM

"When food is lacking in the system, the amount of lean tissue / fat tissue catabolized is not affected by the diet's macronutrient composition."....I don't believe this is a complete fact. I have seen studies indicating otherwise. Of course the largest impact seems to be resistance training. To boldly state that macronutrient content has no effect just is not correct based on what I have read.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:42 PM

@up/down-regulation of enzymes: Yeah, they do, but that's entirely unimportant when addressing an individuals ability to dig into their body fat stores in a fasted state.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Further, speaking to Neuropeptide-Y, you've done a fine job of stating something that's true in a vacuum and extrapolating such that the you've made a mess of the reality. NPY plays a role in glucose homeostasis under conditions in which carbohydrate stores are low. It is dependent on energy availability within the body; that is, the peptide is up-regulated with food unavailability and returns to baseline after eating. The fact that it stimulates food intake (particularly carbs) is an evolutionarily conserved survival mechanism--e.g. one of many players in the "let's not starve & die" cycle.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:29 PM

Yes but enzymes get up and down regulated depending on your typical intake

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:24 PM

This "transition to fat burning" stuff is a falsehood. On a low-carb diet, the post-prandial condition is met with increased fatty acid oxidation above baseline because more fat was consumed, not because of some magical "fat-burner" adaptation. When food is lacking in the system, the amount of lean tissue / fat tissue catabolized is not affected by the diet's macronutrient composition.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:16 PM

If you're running 45 mins a day, I'd just aim for a moderate carbohydrate intake.

Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on July 31, 2012
at 04:50 PM

i'm not very into heavy lifting, rather i prefer jogging/running a decent amouunt--45 mins most days of the week. i also just want a clear mental state where i can function for extended periods of time with unwavering focus due to food cravings/hunger. Whatever diet is best for that..

  • Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

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8 Answers

2
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 31, 2012
at 06:55 PM

I found it easier to not eat on low-carb, but I don't consider that a good thing.

2
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 31, 2012
at 06:52 PM

I'm well suited for this one.

I've done a 16/8 style IF for years. Over that time I've been zerocarb, LC, all the way to now where I'm doing over 400 grams of carbs per day.

I will say with lower carb intake I definitely felt less hunger. I'm not a LC advocate but I do acknowledge that hunger signals or pangs are greatly diminished with lower carb intakes.

That being said I am still IF ing now with my high carb intake. It's no harder. I do indeed feel the onset of hunger in a more traditional or normal way now though. It's not a big deal; I simply wait and eat in my window. I think it's good to feel hunger.

I continue to IF because I feel way more efficient in the rest of my life without a break for food in the morning.

1
1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 04:34 PM

I've done both, but only with the caveat that each was in a calorie deficit:

Low-carb Experience: Fasted state was easier. Training of any sort sucked.
High-carb Experience: Couldn't extend the fast as long, but I was actually able to get off my butt and happily lift some weights.

In a maintenance phase, each was equally amenable in relaxed situations, but obviously the high-carb diet fueled better athletic performance.

What are your goals?

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:16 PM

If you're running 45 mins a day, I'd just aim for a moderate carbohydrate intake.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:55 PM

Meh, jogging can be done vastly aerobic. Especially when fat adapted. And yes studies do indicate that being fat adapted shifts your primary fuel burned when exercising AND that you utilize fat for fuel at even higher intensities based on this shift. No need to ramp up carbs if you don't want to at a jogging pace IMO. If you want to though....hey nobody stopping you.

Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on July 31, 2012
at 04:50 PM

i'm not very into heavy lifting, rather i prefer jogging/running a decent amouunt--45 mins most days of the week. i also just want a clear mental state where i can function for extended periods of time with unwavering focus due to food cravings/hunger. Whatever diet is best for that..

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 01, 2012
at 02:01 AM

For me fasting is easiest low carb, meaning < 50g starch per day, no fruit, and not counting fibrous vegetable carbs. I don't particularly enjoy IF-ing very much though... at least in traditional 18/6 lean gains fashion.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on August 01, 2012
at 08:35 AM

Leangains is 16/8!

0
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 31, 2012
at 06:43 PM

It was not until I went low carb that fasting even seemed possible. An old blog post of mine from 2008.

Before then, I was addicted. I'd be ravenously hungry by 9am, and over at the local coffee shop pounding down a crossaint filled with ham and cheese.

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:27 PM

hahahah like this response.

0
Dfe1dfb34939145fe21b3d8fa6832365

on July 31, 2012
at 05:09 PM

I did a 20/4 fasting style with high carb and with carbs under 50g.

Fasting for 20 hours, sometimes more was not a big deal on high carb, and was only mildly easier on low carb. On low carb I eventually started to get insane fatigue though, so now I don't really go for any certain carb intake, nor do I fast as long. Also my body fat is very low, and I'm very active, so running off of only fat may not be the best idea for me personally.

In my experience fasting is something that you adapt to regardless of macronutrient intake. You adapt to being able to switch fuels.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 07:56 PM

@ ben I do more of a 23/1 and average 2200 calories on the days I do it. I'm 5'9" 160lbs male.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 31, 2012
at 07:00 PM

20/4? Wow. How many calories you manage to get in in that four hours? I ask because I struggle to get my goal 3000 calories in my 8 hours. Are you eating a high calorie diet?

Dfe1dfb34939145fe21b3d8fa6832365

(657)

on August 01, 2012
at 01:38 AM

I don't do it so strictly anymore though, fasting 20 hours everyday just wore me down after almost a year.

Dfe1dfb34939145fe21b3d8fa6832365

(657)

on August 01, 2012
at 01:37 AM

Initially I was eating 3000 calories a night of vegan foods (quinoa, beans, amaranth). Now eating more paleo I just use a lot of lard, haha.

0
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 04:56 PM

Low carb is easier for me to do a daily 24hr fast. I can easily hit my workouts on a low carb diet with plenty of energy. Maybe its cause I only do a max of 3 intense sessions a week rather than 5-7 days or other some such program.

0
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on July 31, 2012
at 04:37 PM

It is much easier to fast on low carb for a few reasons. You can more easily transition to fat burning after your last meal, and carbs also raise NPY, which is a hunger hormone.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:29 PM

Yes but enzymes get up and down regulated depending on your typical intake

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:24 PM

This "transition to fat burning" stuff is a falsehood. On a low-carb diet, the post-prandial condition is met with increased fatty acid oxidation above baseline because more fat was consumed, not because of some magical "fat-burner" adaptation. When food is lacking in the system, the amount of lean tissue / fat tissue catabolized is not affected by the diet's macronutrient composition.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:42 PM

@up/down-regulation of enzymes: Yeah, they do, but that's entirely unimportant when addressing an individuals ability to dig into their body fat stores in a fasted state.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 31, 2012
at 05:51 PM

"When food is lacking in the system, the amount of lean tissue / fat tissue catabolized is not affected by the diet's macronutrient composition."....I don't believe this is a complete fact. I have seen studies indicating otherwise. Of course the largest impact seems to be resistance training. To boldly state that macronutrient content has no effect just is not correct based on what I have read.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Further, speaking to Neuropeptide-Y, you've done a fine job of stating something that's true in a vacuum and extrapolating such that the you've made a mess of the reality. NPY plays a role in glucose homeostasis under conditions in which carbohydrate stores are low. It is dependent on energy availability within the body; that is, the peptide is up-regulated with food unavailability and returns to baseline after eating. The fact that it stimulates food intake (particularly carbs) is an evolutionarily conserved survival mechanism--e.g. one of many players in the "let's not starve & die" cycle.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on July 31, 2012
at 09:39 PM

Sorry, I should have specified. I was speaking specifically to fat/carbohydrate levels. Protein seems to help maintain muscle in an energy deficit, of course. If you are in fact referencing there being a difference between low-carb/high-carb diets, I've yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 03, 2012
at 06:07 AM

Potato, how is NPY being raised by carbs only true in a vacuum? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10612704 "These results demonstrate that hypothalamic NPY can change rapidly in response to dietary carbohydrate"

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