2

votes

Desperate assistance with BF

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created May 29, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Hi all, im kinda new to paleo but have read an absolute ton on paleo diet and IF. Now im around 14-16% body fat. I work out 3 times a week and my goal is muscular hypertrophy, however i want to reduce my body fat to healthier levels or even single digit levels. The thing is every time i do go paleo i find it extremely difficult to maintain such a diet with out having outrageous sugar cravings which last hours and ultimately lead me to binging. This normally happens about 5 hours into the day if i attempt paleo. Now my goal is to gain lean muscle mass and lose Body fat. Can anyone give me some tips or advice on how properly go about this? I really want to lose fat to reduce inflammation, increase health and look good naked etc. I absolutely love paleo and working out but the diet part i find incredibly difficult to stick to. PS i can fast for 24 hours no problem.

53ae5256bd5ba7fadcf3755115cbc1d5

(190)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:53 PM

I thought you meant you were having breastfeeding issues!

A3a4696c919e916ec971691559e9c942

(2043)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:18 AM

Read the post...BF is body fat, not boyfriend.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:02 AM

Thanks Igel, so you saying that looking bigger is more about losing fat rather than just muscle hypertrophy?

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Like YoungPaleoLover said it seems low in fats but it certainly is very low in carbs too. And not many calories too. No wonder you get huge sugar cravings while doing those workouts on top of it. That diet made me constantly check opening hours of supermarkets to know how long I still had to rush my ass over there to satisfy my cravings. 22 days is the longest I kept to it and it only gave me hypothyroidism, extremely dry skin, dandruff, libido disappeared like a fart in the wind, extreme fatigue, etc... on this Cordain template. Now I sometimes have cravings due to stress but mostly none.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 31, 2012
at 04:23 PM

I saw brain fart

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 30, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Not grass fed butter. And coconut oil has virtually no PUFA's.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 30, 2012
at 11:07 AM

Yea 50-100 is optimal. Even if you are at the high spectrum of 100 grams you'll find you have much freedom to enjoy carbs like a small sweet potato. As long as you eat grass-fed meats, the occasional salmon, and eat monounsaturated (olive oil and avocado) and saturated (coconut oil) over nuts you should be fine. I've seen great results with coconut oil in my cooking because it has helped decrease inflammation.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:57 AM

lean gains seems incredibly complex in terms of working out macro nutrient profiles of meals and working out daily calories. Its too involved for me. If i did IF id prefer eat stop eat or something along those lines. Thanks for the input though!

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:55 AM

Ill try what you said paleo lover and ill look into biome balance thanks happy now. By the way will i still be getting an optimal ratio of omega 3-6? And how many grams of carbs a day do you think to lose fat? I know sisson recommends about 50-100 for fat loss. thanks in advance.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:53 AM

Thanks for the input but OJ will send me up and down a roller coaster on my blood glucose

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:49 AM

I dont think i am, however my aim is also to get a 1-1 ratio of omega 3 to 6 fatty acids. I know butter and coconut oil is an easy way to get fat but dont they have high omega 6 content?

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:48 AM

lol sorry about that

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:34 AM

I know everyone blames everything on candida these days, but when sugar cravings are that strong it might be something to look into, it might be less about what you are eating and more about treating a gut biome imbalance.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:31 AM

I am so confused by the logic of this concept, maybe I'm a different metabolic type or something, but I can easily drink a good 4-5 cups of orange juice and still be hungry. One steak with fewer calories leaves me indifferent to food for the better part of the day.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:27 AM

I thought breast feeding when I saw BF.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 29, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Your breakfast seems low in fats depending on what dressing your using for a salad. Do you cook your eggs in lots of coconut oil or butter? Starting off the day with lots of fat helps cravings immensely. Also you could pair breakfast with a healthy avocado! You may be waiting too long between your meals. Maybe eat at 11 and then eat dinner at 5-30-6 being done by 7. This could help a lot. If this still isn't working you can still tweak by adding carbs like sweet potato. Any questions?

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Wait, last comment, I swear: If you'd like, I can also reference quite a bit of studies that show macronutrient composition of a meal to be more highly correlative with satiety than the solidity of the food. Protein is where it's at for satiety; not sugar.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Now that I've read through the studies, it's clear that all they state is that the impact of liquid calories on satiety is "inconclusive" -- not the best supporting evidence either way. Further, the studies in which people do lose weight on liquid diets are generally attributable to a relatively unpalatable shake fasts. What aspect of metabolism are you attempting to affect with orange juice and low fat franken milk?

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 02:55 PM

I'll read the studies in a bit, but see, here's the fun part: I have tried it. I'm not speculating on the effects of orange juice on satiety. I used to be an orange juice fiend, drinking about a quart a day. Impact on satiety? Minimal. 500 cals or orange juice doesn't touch 12 ounces or so of beef.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:45 PM

"Numerous clinical studies have shown that sugar-containing liquids, when consumed in place of usual meals, can lead to a significant and sustained weight loss. " http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/3/651.full "Some published studies have reported that liquids are less satiating than solids, whereas other studies have reported that solids are less satiating than liquids" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14649371

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:38 PM

I'm not talking about the thermic effect of food. There is more to metabolism than just thermogenesis.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:37 PM

Go try it for yourself. Your just speculating you have never tried it. See how much you can OJ you can drink before you're full. Its a lot easier to eat butter sticks to get calories.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Woops sorry i accidently copied and pasted. I would get up at about9-10pm, usually not eat unti a couple of hours after waking due to not being hungry. So for breakfast i would eat a reasonably large salad with cos lettuce and 2 carrots, 2-3 fried eggs or omelet and half can of sardines. Couple hours after this meal my enormous grain and sugar cravings will come and a feel like binging on such foods. However when i do i usually notice i have a short temper and get angry quiet easily and frsutrated. For dinner 5-7pm, Steak eating all the fat and a large salad. Trying to keep fruit to a minimum

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:02 PM

I didn't down vote you, and I am not against carbohydratesm, per se, but last time I checked Ray Peate recommendations were for hypo-thyroid, and not for gaining muscle mass and reducing bdoy fat.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:00 PM

Google Leangains and you don't have to go low carb or sugar free. I'm currently at 12% bf (started at 25%), and I eat 30+ grams of sugars (mostly honey) and 400g of total carbs PWO.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I'm sorry, but low fat milk and orange juice are hard to over eat? The body does an abismal job of sensing liquid calories, especially when the intake is predominantly sugar. Recommending liquid food to someone attempting to lean out is absolutely ridiculous. And I read your blog post. My favorite bit of nonsense is, and I quote: "Eating frequent small meals that always contain some sugar and protein will keep stress hormones low and metabolism high." --The frequent small meals to "rev-up metabolism" has proved nonsensical. The thermic effect of food is based on meal size, not frequency.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 29, 2012
at 12:44 PM

hahaha no sorry, i knew this might have happened lol :)

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 29, 2012
at 12:43 PM

Desperate assistance with BF 0 Hi all, im kinda new to paleo but have read an absolute ton on paleo diet and IF. Now im around 14-16% body fat. I work out 3 times a week and my goal is muscular hypertrophy, however i want to reduce my body fat to healthier levels or even single digit levels. The thing is every time i do go paleo i find it extremely difficult to maintain such a diet with out having outrageous sugar cravings which last hours and ultimately lead me to binging. This normally happens about 5 hours into the day if i attempt paleo. Now my goal is to gain lean muscle mass and lose

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 29, 2012
at 11:50 AM

For a second I thought you meant boyfriend ;)

  • F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

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5 Answers

2
A7925ab8ea44e6d4d5d7c6f202632c6c

(404)

on August 12, 2012
at 07:44 AM

"my goal is muscular hypertrophy, however i want to reduce my body fat to healthier levels or even single digit levels"

|||

IMO, you seem to get the order of things somewhat backward: increasing the volume of muscle tissue per se to the point of achieving any "hypertrophy" to speak of is a rather difficult issue: either in terms of effort or how the body functions and reacts to various stimuli (exercise/diet)::: what most people usually take for bulking up (which in most cases is a derivative of getting a more clear muscle definition)is in reality 95% leaning out and only 5% actual 'hypertrophy'

i'm in no way to discourage you from aspiring to get a decently lean and muscular physique, just an advice to view things as pragmatically as possible and set priorities right

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:02 AM

Thanks Igel, so you saying that looking bigger is more about losing fat rather than just muscle hypertrophy?

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 29, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Are you eating much fat? I don't crave carbs at all if I am eating plenty of fat and I maintain a healthy bodyfat percentage around 11% without trying. I have got the percentage a few percent lower in the past, when I wanted to but I didn't feel like I had as much strength or stamina.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 30, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Not grass fed butter. And coconut oil has virtually no PUFA's.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:49 AM

I dont think i am, however my aim is also to get a 1-1 ratio of omega 3 to 6 fatty acids. I know butter and coconut oil is an easy way to get fat but dont they have high omega 6 content?

0
93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 29, 2012
at 11:55 AM

First provide us with a typical day of eating. In the mean time with the level of workouts your doing you will need to incorporate carbs. Don't be carb-phobic as you need them to repair muscle glycogen. I would make sure to try safe starches like sweet potato: I eat 2 on workout days covered in coconut oil (helps with inflammation too!). In addition make sure you are eating high-protein. This includes fresh fish, grass-fed meats, and lamb (chicken and turkey are fine but low fat). In the beginning of starting paleo again you may want to eat 3 large meals a day with a good portion of fat, protein, and carb. The only caveat is fruit. If you have BF loss goals you need to limit or completely cut it out at least until you are at your goal. Once at your goal You can play with IF for maintenance of your body fat (I think it's too hard to do it all at once when starTing out again)

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Woops sorry i accidently copied and pasted. I would get up at about9-10pm, usually not eat unti a couple of hours after waking due to not being hungry. So for breakfast i would eat a reasonably large salad with cos lettuce and 2 carrots, 2-3 fried eggs or omelet and half can of sardines. Couple hours after this meal my enormous grain and sugar cravings will come and a feel like binging on such foods. However when i do i usually notice i have a short temper and get angry quiet easily and frsutrated. For dinner 5-7pm, Steak eating all the fat and a large salad. Trying to keep fruit to a minimum

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 29, 2012
at 12:43 PM

Desperate assistance with BF 0 Hi all, im kinda new to paleo but have read an absolute ton on paleo diet and IF. Now im around 14-16% body fat. I work out 3 times a week and my goal is muscular hypertrophy, however i want to reduce my body fat to healthier levels or even single digit levels. The thing is every time i do go paleo i find it extremely difficult to maintain such a diet with out having outrageous sugar cravings which last hours and ultimately lead me to binging. This normally happens about 5 hours into the day if i attempt paleo. Now my goal is to gain lean muscle mass and lose

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:34 AM

I know everyone blames everything on candida these days, but when sugar cravings are that strong it might be something to look into, it might be less about what you are eating and more about treating a gut biome imbalance.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:55 AM

Ill try what you said paleo lover and ill look into biome balance thanks happy now. By the way will i still be getting an optimal ratio of omega 3-6? And how many grams of carbs a day do you think to lose fat? I know sisson recommends about 50-100 for fat loss. thanks in advance.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 30, 2012
at 11:07 AM

Yea 50-100 is optimal. Even if you are at the high spectrum of 100 grams you'll find you have much freedom to enjoy carbs like a small sweet potato. As long as you eat grass-fed meats, the occasional salmon, and eat monounsaturated (olive oil and avocado) and saturated (coconut oil) over nuts you should be fine. I've seen great results with coconut oil in my cooking because it has helped decrease inflammation.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 29, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Your breakfast seems low in fats depending on what dressing your using for a salad. Do you cook your eggs in lots of coconut oil or butter? Starting off the day with lots of fat helps cravings immensely. Also you could pair breakfast with a healthy avocado! You may be waiting too long between your meals. Maybe eat at 11 and then eat dinner at 5-30-6 being done by 7. This could help a lot. If this still isn't working you can still tweak by adding carbs like sweet potato. Any questions?

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Like YoungPaleoLover said it seems low in fats but it certainly is very low in carbs too. And not many calories too. No wonder you get huge sugar cravings while doing those workouts on top of it. That diet made me constantly check opening hours of supermarkets to know how long I still had to rush my ass over there to satisfy my cravings. 22 days is the longest I kept to it and it only gave me hypothyroidism, extremely dry skin, dandruff, libido disappeared like a fart in the wind, extreme fatigue, etc... on this Cordain template. Now I sometimes have cravings due to stress but mostly none.

-1
963322f175cdd4c5f7d52cc372b3a167

on August 26, 2012
at 08:26 AM

If you truly are desperately in need of assistance with your boyfriend, I suggest you contact the appropriate authorities. I frankly do not see the point of posting this on a forum devoted to paleo eating.

A3a4696c919e916ec971691559e9c942

(2043)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:18 AM

Read the post...BF is body fat, not boyfriend.

-2
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 01:46 PM

Maybe you should reevaluate this whole paleo thing. IMO the best way to get lean and what has worked for me is to eat enough sugar and protein to maintain muscle/healthy metabolism with foods that are hard to overeat on such as low fat milk and orange juice. Keeping fat low is the key, if you do that you can pretty much eat as much as you want and you will lean out.

Sure a low carb(ketogenic) diet could work if you already have a ton of muscle mass but it will also probably tank your metabolism(which will cause health problems) and prevent muscle gains.

Here's a blog post I wrote outlining my ideas on losing weight. http://co2factor.blogspot.com/2012/04/practical-ways-to-lose-fat.html

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Now that I've read through the studies, it's clear that all they state is that the impact of liquid calories on satiety is "inconclusive" -- not the best supporting evidence either way. Further, the studies in which people do lose weight on liquid diets are generally attributable to a relatively unpalatable shake fasts. What aspect of metabolism are you attempting to affect with orange juice and low fat franken milk?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:37 PM

Go try it for yourself. Your just speculating you have never tried it. See how much you can OJ you can drink before you're full. Its a lot easier to eat butter sticks to get calories.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Wait, last comment, I swear: If you'd like, I can also reference quite a bit of studies that show macronutrient composition of a meal to be more highly correlative with satiety than the solidity of the food. Protein is where it's at for satiety; not sugar.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:45 PM

"Numerous clinical studies have shown that sugar-containing liquids, when consumed in place of usual meals, can lead to a significant and sustained weight loss. " http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/3/651.full "Some published studies have reported that liquids are less satiating than solids, whereas other studies have reported that solids are less satiating than liquids" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14649371

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:02 PM

I didn't down vote you, and I am not against carbohydratesm, per se, but last time I checked Ray Peate recommendations were for hypo-thyroid, and not for gaining muscle mass and reducing bdoy fat.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:38 PM

I'm not talking about the thermic effect of food. There is more to metabolism than just thermogenesis.

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I'm sorry, but low fat milk and orange juice are hard to over eat? The body does an abismal job of sensing liquid calories, especially when the intake is predominantly sugar. Recommending liquid food to someone attempting to lean out is absolutely ridiculous. And I read your blog post. My favorite bit of nonsense is, and I quote: "Eating frequent small meals that always contain some sugar and protein will keep stress hormones low and metabolism high." --The frequent small meals to "rev-up metabolism" has proved nonsensical. The thermic effect of food is based on meal size, not frequency.

F8f38dfefde197df8ac1782ab6e65a60

(220)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:53 AM

Thanks for the input but OJ will send me up and down a roller coaster on my blood glucose

1407bd6152d9fdbc239250385159fea1

on May 29, 2012
at 02:55 PM

I'll read the studies in a bit, but see, here's the fun part: I have tried it. I'm not speculating on the effects of orange juice on satiety. I used to be an orange juice fiend, drinking about a quart a day. Impact on satiety? Minimal. 500 cals or orange juice doesn't touch 12 ounces or so of beef.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:31 AM

I am so confused by the logic of this concept, maybe I'm a different metabolic type or something, but I can easily drink a good 4-5 cups of orange juice and still be hungry. One steak with fewer calories leaves me indifferent to food for the better part of the day.

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