3

votes

Carbs and fat - mix or separate for fat loss?

Answered on January 06, 2015
Created September 08, 2011 at 12:47 PM

I have what I'd guess is between 20 and 30 lbs of fat left to lose to get a figure I'd be satisfied with, so I try to keep carbs relatively low. I don't count, but I would estimate I generally land on the low end of the 50-100g/day range Sisson suggests.

However, as we all know carb consumption drives insulin up, and insulin leads to storage of both glucose and fats.

So, would it be a good idea to separate fat intake from carb intake to prevent storage of more fat? Or when you're eating LC, particularly foods with a lower glycemic index, is it not enough to worry about? Or does eating the fat with the carb actually buffer the insulin increase?

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:57 PM

How much fat, how many carbs? Based on this would you pass up a salad with fresh veggies + a olive oil/vinegar dressing?

980a08fc871f83f803191278d1a8c3c3

(531)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:04 AM

That is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!!

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:00 AM

fat is not an ideal combination.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:00 AM

I just noticed your answer, so I would say DEFINITELY post workout remove all fat. All of our bodies are different but here is one of the benefits of being lean- it makes self experimentation a breeze. A .5% change in body fat levels is easily noticed in someone with low body fat, but in a heavier set person a .5% change is totally unrecognizable. I notice that if I eat fat with carbs I am less lean the next day. I also feel worse within hours. if you're going to eat carbs and are insulin sensitive (which is the only time you should be eating them, probably), then it is my opinion that..

980a08fc871f83f803191278d1a8c3c3

(531)

on May 23, 2012
at 11:24 PM

Usually that meal is lean meat + sweet potato mashed up with banana, by the way.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 14, 2011
at 05:02 AM

e-mail's in my profile

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on October 14, 2011
at 04:26 AM

Travis, i am extremely interested and blown away by every comment of yours that I read. Would you by any chance be willing to offer an email ? I would love to paleopick your brain :)

99a6e964584f20f3f69ad3a70a335353

(1334)

on September 09, 2011
at 11:43 AM

So, how long do you recommend waiting after consuming a meal with carbohydrates before exercising? I primarily do weight-lifting (Stronglifts 5x5 for now), and usually at about 4pm with lunch around 11 or noon. I presume that's generally long enough for the insulin spike to die down? Other times it's early in the morning with no meal since the previous dinner, which I'm sure is long enough...

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 08, 2011
at 08:05 PM

The difference is that you're likely performing glycolytic exercise which of course requires glucose/glycogen. If you are interested in losing the most fat in the least amount of time, do a high volume of low intensity exercise like walking at times when your insulin is the lowest. It doesn't burn as much energy altogether, and is of course going to be far more time consuming, but the difference in lipolysis is massive. I had trouble with hypoglycemia as a vegan and with the SAD and would thus be afraid to exercise without eating carbs and never lost any fat. Give it a try.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:57 PM

carb and excercise? or you mean carb fat and excercise? car and excercise isnt bad?

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:32 PM

Is this a strategy focused on weight loss, performance, or both? It looks like hypoglycaemia can occur, but that is case-by-case. Also of note is that I typically exercise for extended periods of time after carbohydrate consumption (60-120 minutes depending on what I'm doing) which may potentially mitigate the insulin spike issue. I'd also question whether burning fat during exercise is truly beneficial toward weight loss (might sound ridiculous, but my experience leaves me with doubt). I also tend to have better performance if I consume carbs 30-60 minutes prior to a workout.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:08 PM

It's one of insulin's primary roles - the inhibition of lipolysis via lipase enzymes like HSL. I believe that insulinogenic proteins can cause the same effect but that there is a (nearly) commensurate release of glucagon during a meat-only meal that cancels most of it out. You could play it safe and only exercise fasted right before meals as I do. It makes a huge difference.

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on September 08, 2011
at 06:57 PM

This is very interesting to me, do you have any resources you can point me toward?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on September 08, 2011
at 03:46 PM

As long as you're LC I don't think you need to worry about it. If I'm doing a higher carb/refeed day though I will lower my fat intake for the day to maybe 40-50g. That's the only time I consciously manipulate my fat intake.

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9 Answers

best answer

2
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on September 08, 2011
at 01:11 PM

I think the only real problem with mixing carbs and fats is when you do so via processed food ... lots of refined sugars & grains and unhealthy fats is no one's prescription for health!

So IMO, the answers to your questions are no, you don't need to separate the two, no, if you're eating LC, it's not much of an issue, and yes, eating fat is thought to help slow digestion (why they say if you're gonna eat bread, eat it with butter or olive oil).

BTW, another plus for fat with your meals is that it can help you absorb fat-soluble vitamins.

3
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on May 23, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Personally I separate carbs and fats. 1) is that fat reduce efficiency of glucose uptake and transport into the muscle cells and 2) I notice that I stay leaner without mixing fats with carbs.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:00 AM

I just noticed your answer, so I would say DEFINITELY post workout remove all fat. All of our bodies are different but here is one of the benefits of being lean- it makes self experimentation a breeze. A .5% change in body fat levels is easily noticed in someone with low body fat, but in a heavier set person a .5% change is totally unrecognizable. I notice that if I eat fat with carbs I am less lean the next day. I also feel worse within hours. if you're going to eat carbs and are insulin sensitive (which is the only time you should be eating them, probably), then it is my opinion that..

980a08fc871f83f803191278d1a8c3c3

(531)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:04 AM

That is exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!!

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 24, 2012
at 12:00 AM

fat is not an ideal combination.

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:57 PM

How much fat, how many carbs? Based on this would you pass up a salad with fresh veggies + a olive oil/vinegar dressing?

2
Medium avatar

on September 08, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Much more important than not mixing carbs and fat is not mixing carbs and exercise. The insulin spike will force a mitochondrial substrate change toward glucose oxidation and both reduce lipolysis and intercept the glucose before it gets partitioned as glycogen. Exercising with low insulin levels is of paramount importance whether or not you are doing low carb.

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:32 PM

Is this a strategy focused on weight loss, performance, or both? It looks like hypoglycaemia can occur, but that is case-by-case. Also of note is that I typically exercise for extended periods of time after carbohydrate consumption (60-120 minutes depending on what I'm doing) which may potentially mitigate the insulin spike issue. I'd also question whether burning fat during exercise is truly beneficial toward weight loss (might sound ridiculous, but my experience leaves me with doubt). I also tend to have better performance if I consume carbs 30-60 minutes prior to a workout.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 08, 2011
at 08:05 PM

The difference is that you're likely performing glycolytic exercise which of course requires glucose/glycogen. If you are interested in losing the most fat in the least amount of time, do a high volume of low intensity exercise like walking at times when your insulin is the lowest. It doesn't burn as much energy altogether, and is of course going to be far more time consuming, but the difference in lipolysis is massive. I had trouble with hypoglycemia as a vegan and with the SAD and would thus be afraid to exercise without eating carbs and never lost any fat. Give it a try.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:57 PM

carb and excercise? or you mean carb fat and excercise? car and excercise isnt bad?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on September 08, 2011
at 07:08 PM

It's one of insulin's primary roles - the inhibition of lipolysis via lipase enzymes like HSL. I believe that insulinogenic proteins can cause the same effect but that there is a (nearly) commensurate release of glucagon during a meat-only meal that cancels most of it out. You could play it safe and only exercise fasted right before meals as I do. It makes a huge difference.

99a6e964584f20f3f69ad3a70a335353

(1334)

on September 09, 2011
at 11:43 AM

So, how long do you recommend waiting after consuming a meal with carbohydrates before exercising? I primarily do weight-lifting (Stronglifts 5x5 for now), and usually at about 4pm with lunch around 11 or noon. I presume that's generally long enough for the insulin spike to die down? Other times it's early in the morning with no meal since the previous dinner, which I'm sure is long enough...

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on September 08, 2011
at 06:57 PM

This is very interesting to me, do you have any resources you can point me toward?

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on October 14, 2011
at 04:26 AM

Travis, i am extremely interested and blown away by every comment of yours that I read. Would you by any chance be willing to offer an email ? I would love to paleopick your brain :)

Medium avatar

(39821)

on October 14, 2011
at 05:02 AM

e-mail's in my profile

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 08, 2011
at 05:19 PM

What about pacific salmon with dates and bannanas. good or evil for belly fat?

1
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 08, 2011
at 01:19 PM

I think the main thing you need to worry about if your trying to lose weight is the food reward synergy between fat/carbs that makes them extremely stimulating and often leads to overeating. If you can control the portions I don't see any problem in mixing the two for the most part.

0
322a2783dfe4086591f323c6d2c086d6

on January 06, 2015
at 03:52 PM

 You may wish to visit the whole carb/insulin = fatness again:

wholehealthsource.blogspot(dot com)/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on May 23, 2012
at 11:52 PM

I will just tell you what I do. I personally do not eat carbs with fat, as I have both read that fat interferes with glucose uptake and experienced that I stay leaner when I separate carbs from fats. This is just me, personally though. WE are all different and I specifically do not eat a very high fat diet- I use some avocado and olive oil, and that's about it, usually.

Experimenting is hard when you are above a certain level of body fat. I know what works for my body within a couple hours to days because of my muscle/fat ratio- a .5% change in body fat over a day is noticeable, whereas a .5% change over a day is unrecognized in a heavier set person. I notice how a food impacts my body immediately, and that is what has served me as to how I like to eat to maintain a certain level of fitness. Who knows though, fat with carbs may be the best thing for you, it's just not for me.

0
980a08fc871f83f803191278d1a8c3c3

(531)

on May 23, 2012
at 11:23 PM

I want to bring this question up again with something more specific- for an emphasis on leaning out (just a little bit of extra fat left), I train fasted for ~45 min-an hour. I eat low carb in general, but I am wondering- PWO, protein + carbs only, no fat? Or stick with just the fat and protein as usual? I'm not looking to do a full leangains carb day on training days. I will stay fairly low carb every day, except PWO, just wondering about including fat in that meal or not.

980a08fc871f83f803191278d1a8c3c3

(531)

on May 23, 2012
at 11:24 PM

Usually that meal is lean meat + sweet potato mashed up with banana, by the way.

0
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on September 08, 2011
at 04:57 PM

IF they are paleo carbs and fat mixing the two are a great idea for weight loss. If they are in processed food its a real bad idea because of the fructose and O6 content is additive to the hypothalamic damage and likely compounded by the hydrolyzed veggie protein likely added.

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