7

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Body Type and Macros

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 04, 2012 at 4:55 PM

Does anyone know of any research on this? I have long thought that women don't thrive as well (I'm not saying they don't thrive at all, chill people) on a diet which includes very high fat, possibly because we naturally have more metabolically active fat than men (belly fat versus pear shapes) and thus we utilize our own stores better than outside sources.

It would be great to see if anyone else has come to this conclusion.

To clarify: the body-types I mean are Endomorph, Mesomorph, and Ectomorph...but we could also compare to the basic, apple, pear, and banana shapes.

FYI-I feel great eating keto (sub 50g carbs, as I am quite active) and much prefer it to the ups and downs I get when eating a lot of starch. I'm 5'9, 145lbs, very muscular, and I've been paleo for about 2 years now.

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on July 05, 2012
at 05:17 AM

I am a Farmer. Wouldn't have guessed that.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 05, 2012
at 03:25 AM

Thank you A at GFD. Im a Hunter. Interesting Quiz on the site. I will read more of his info.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 05, 2012
at 03:00 AM

Yes. Thank you foreveryoung.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 05, 2012
at 02:59 AM

THANK YOU Brain trust.

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on July 05, 2012
at 01:10 AM

These are all really great, thank you. Looks like I will have my evening full after practice tonight!

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on July 05, 2012
at 01:10 AM

Found it! The Hunter/Farmer Solution by Dr. Mark Liponis http://hunterfarmerdiet.com/ I haven't read it yet, but it sounds like what you are looking for. It's an interesting theory, so I plan on checking out the book myself at some point.

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on July 05, 2012
at 01:09 AM

GFD, that makes sense as we know that belly fat is generally tied to insulin resistance. We seem to have a lot of info on carbs, but less on the other two macros and the differing abilities to utilize them to our best potential. Sad, really.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on July 05, 2012
at 12:33 AM

There was a guy (a doctor I think?) who came out with a book recently saying that if you have belly fat, you should go low carb and if you had more lower body fat, you should go higher carb. Had a whole theory about this with birth weight and such. I even remember him being on Dr. Oz a few months ago... but I can't remember his name and my google-fu is failing. Anyone remember this guy?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 04, 2012
at 11:39 PM

I would just find some people who you respect and trust. Then try to implement their material in month long intervals on yourself. Monitor your progress. After you've given all a fair trial, make your own personal changes and tweaks to fit your lifestyle and what you've learned about your body in the progress. It's tedious and time consuming, but it pays off. WOuldn't you rather waste 6 months doing it today in a series of legit trials than waste a lifetime dabbling about and not knowing really what the hell you're doing?

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on July 04, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Really interesting...I'm a banana (I guess) with about 10% bf but sometimes I think it's 5% everywhere except tush and thighs where it's 20%. I appear to be pretty carb tolerant though. I'd sure like to know what others have to say on this.

345c1755efe005edd162b770dc6fb821

(8767)

on July 04, 2012
at 05:57 PM

good question! I started out really tweaking my % to see what it took for me to loose the fat and not the lean muscle and it turned out I need VLC(at or less 50g never over)65% fat, and 25% protein...if I upped my proteins I stalled in weight loss. I am fat adapted now, love IFing and love to eat!!

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 04, 2012
at 05:38 PM

Great Q Ashley!!! I have no answer but I too am dying to know what answers folks have. I feel great on vlc/lc, high protein & high fat but I am amazed that I CANNOT lose weight. Im 5'8, 144lbs and I have 5+ pounds of extra fat. What pisses me off is that I know damn well from the past that if I did something like (stupid) Weight WAtchers I would lose the extra fat. I'm not changing too much yet while I figure this out. My nutritionist wants me to do Pathways Genomics Fit testing which might be interesting (but so would a new pair of sandals for the same price! lol)

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2 Answers

5
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on July 04, 2012
at 10:35 PM

Blockquote

According to Charles Poliquin, if you have little tricep area fat (i.e. no flabby arms) you're what he calls a "carb bitch," meaning you can tolerate carbs very well whether cutting, maintaining, or bulking. Additionally, I've read on some fitness related site that one's tolerance for carbs in order of most to least goes like this; ectomorph > mesomorph > endomorph. It's fairly straightforward to tell which end of the spectrum you fall on, but I think the best method is to pay attention to your body and just experiment by manipulating your macros and seeing how it goes.

For cutting, in his older publication entitled "Burn the fat Feed the Muscle," Tom Venuto recommends ectomorphs follow a split that goes 30%P/50%C/20%F, mesos follow a 50%P/30%C/20%F and Endos should follow a 50%P/30F/20%C. Those would be some great splits to try out on yourself. More recently however, he's become an avid proponent of carbohydrate cycling, and then sticking to some universal macro splits. In this latest publication entitled "The HOly Grail BOdy Transformation Program," Venuto does a combination (depending on the person's preference) of carb targeting OR carb tapering, and then universally includes calorie/carb cycling on a day-to-day basis. On low carb/calorie days, the macros are 44%P/41%C/15%F. On both the maintenance and surplus calorie days, the macros are kept at roughly 36%P/49%C/16%F. The only difference between this program for ectos, mesos, and endos is how often you switch out of the low calorie/low carb days and into either the maintenance or surplus days. I hope I explained that well enough (both books are like 200 pages long with plenty of additional "bonus" but still included in the price material).

Note though, that it's a spectrum and not one or the other. For instance, I'm an ecto-mesomorph, which means I tolerate carbs pretty well, but I still have to be conscious of the type, amount, and times I eat them. I can't eat 3 apples before bed and wake up leaner than I was the day before, even hypo calorically.

I hope that this information I've provided helps you out some.

EDIT: I should also point out that Venuto is a major advocate also of starch as opposed to fruit for losing body fat and minimizing muscle wasting. He obviously doesn't like fructose, but on his reefed days he does include fruit in the plans in 2 meals before the afternoon sets in. Just thought you might like to know that little tid-bit, since you're competing and would probably like TMI rather than TLI. Oh, and most of the fat in his plans is incidental from the protein. The entire food list he employs for "optimum fat burning potential" is as follows- eggs, lean beef, wild fatty salmon, sardines, shellfish, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, spinach, salad greens, carrots, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, rice, walnuts, almonds, olive oil, most fresh fruit. As you can see, if you take out the oatmeal (and maybe the rice depending upon your "paleo" permutation) it is very paleo friendly (though he personally is pretty outspokenly anti-paleo). The results on his website and in the book from his clients are really impressive, and there's tons of individuals who post their before and after pics on his website forum "the inner circle." Aside from not only doing his research and supplying the science behind his methods, the the guy is surprisingly very down-to-earth.

As for Poliquin, his meal plans are pretty individual, but he classifies himself as a meso-endomorph, and eats a safe starch paleo diet with surpassingly high carbs. He always starts his day with a meat and nut breakfast though, a salad and lean protein lunch, nuts or protein shake snack, and then like this crazy thing in the evening where he apparently carbs up with different combinations of (along with a standard protein and vegetable dish) rice, yogurt, sweet potato, fruit strangeness. Seemed strange to me when I read that, but the guy has a pretty good reputation for knowing what he's talking about.

Now that I mention Poliquin the only reason I found his articles was after reading some of Ido Portal's stuff on a gymnastics forum. He recommends everyone eat a very low carb, strict paleo diet and if you're an athlete you time your carbs post workout with a fruit and possibly use protein shakes if you tolerate them. I have to say of all the physique and talent combinations in the world, Ido has married them uniquely well and seems to absolutely thrive on a very low carb, very high protein paleo diet. He is possibly one of the most aesthetic AND athletically endowed (and artistic) people on the planet. T

If you like Ido Portal's philosophy, as you seem to gravitate to very low carb, high protein diets, here's one of his sample menus and he says to just vary the quantities based upon your own personal goals. It's universal otherwise. The major drawback for me to doing this the preparation and time it takes to sit down at eat 6 legit meals a day. Seems unnecessary to me, but the you can't really argue with this guys results.

Meal 1: organic free range eggs and almonds with a cup of green tea. Meal 2: organic beef jerky with a spinach salad with a splash of olive oil, lemon juice, and vinegar. Meal 3: wild salmon with a side of steamed broccoli with red pepper flakes and a cup of espresso (pre workout) Meal 4: post workout whey isolate shake (with glutamine and glycine added) and optional fruit (goal depending) Meal 5: grass fed beef steak with a side of wild mushroom soup. Meal 6: cottage and ricotta cheese mix (if dairy well tolerated) with organic blueberries

Now that I think of it looks as though I just wrote a (very poorly written) lit-review of cherry picked "gurus" and their differing protocols. It probably didn't provide any help at this point, but I did intend it to when I began writing. If only it were actually the thought the counts...Someone had to at least try and answer, right? I guess it's safe to say it's so individual but one thing in common with them all is high protein, 80% paleo, and strategic use of safe starches and/or fruit.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 05, 2012
at 03:00 AM

Yes. Thank you foreveryoung.

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on July 05, 2012
at 01:10 AM

These are all really great, thank you. Looks like I will have my evening full after practice tonight!

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 04, 2012
at 11:39 PM

I would just find some people who you respect and trust. Then try to implement their material in month long intervals on yourself. Monitor your progress. After you've given all a fair trial, make your own personal changes and tweaks to fit your lifestyle and what you've learned about your body in the progress. It's tedious and time consuming, but it pays off. WOuldn't you rather waste 6 months doing it today in a series of legit trials than waste a lifetime dabbling about and not knowing really what the hell you're doing?

0
4a6bd2b31d5b14de294427636a65e792

on November 08, 2012
at 02:53 AM

Burn the fat, feed the muscle...Tom Venuto.

3 day lower calorie =20-30% less than your total daily energy expenditure

1 day of maintenance calories.

Total daily energy expenditure abbr. is TDEE

TDEE=bmr or basal metabolic rate multiplied by your exercise factor.

Exercise factor is typically 1.35

Bmr is found by using this formula = 370 + (21.6 x lbm in kg)

Lower calorie day= 50% carbs. 30% protein. 20% fat.

Maintenance calorie day= 45% protein. 30% carbs. 25% fat.

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