1

votes

Are two-thirds of Americans metabolically deranged?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 27, 2012 at 3:30 AM

Define metabolically deranged? Would this be abnormal elevated fasting insulin, fasting glucose, glucose levels post carbohydrate intake (1, 2, and 3 hours after meal), and/or belly fat count?

If this is true, would two thirds of Americans be metabolically deranged in some way?

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/more-than-two-thirds-of-americans-are-overweight-the-normalization-of-unhealthy/

Skinny-fat also a problem:

http://drhyman.com/blog/2012/05/22/skinny-fat-people-why-being-skinny-doesnt-protect-us-against-diabetes-and-death/

The reason this question is important because I wonder if a Kitavan style high-carb Paleo/Ancestral diet may not be optimum for a significant group of people who are metabolically deranged?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 24, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Being obese does inherently mean you're nutrient deprived. Our brains consume lots of sugar as adults, and being insulin means you're brain is not getting access to the sugar you're providing it, but your blood is. Also, if you are obese, chances are you got there eating a low quality diet devoid of many essential items for proper brain growth and function (omega 3s, iodine, for example) as well as not exercising adequately (exercise is beneficial to brain health). I think an unhealthy, metabolically deranged, obese body would also mean that your brain is not functioning optimally either.

3d0093dd591d9b88db74d7bba970dea0

(222)

on August 24, 2012
at 02:52 PM

I'd contribute to a kickstarter for that research.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:56 AM

And, I would agree that the IQ test is not a comprehensive view of knowledge, and is somewhat flawed, but I still disagree on the rest.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:55 AM

Being obese does mean you are nutrient deprived. If you're obese, you are insulin resistant, and if you're insulin resistant, your cells are deprived of glucose (because glucose cannot get in the cells, so it sits in the blood stream where it wreaks havoc). So, actually, physiologically it makes sense that if your brain is deprived of glucose perpetually, it will not function properly. Humans are unique in that our brains consume vast quantities of glucose.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Being obese does mean you are nutrient deprived. If you're obese, you are insulin resistant, and if you're insulin resistant, your cells are deprived of glucose (because glucose cannot get in the cells, so it sits in the blood stream where it wreaks havoc). So, actually, physiologically it makes sense that if you're brain is deprived of glucose perpetually, it will not function properly. Humans are unique in that our brains consume vast quantities of glucose.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:46 AM

No matter WHAT your size you could be nutrient deprived and therefore not perform optimally on an IQ test. Being obese doesn't inherently mean that you are nutrient deprived, and being normal weight does not mean that you are adequately nourished. The amount of stigma packed the statement that obese people have a lower IQ is astounding, particularly when there are SO ridiculously many confounding factors that are impossible to tease out of an IQ test.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:42 AM

The fact that you can use strategic methods to increase your score on the IQ test just goes to shaw that it's an imperfect measurement if raw intelligence.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:41 AM

Women and minorities were "proved" to be inferior using IQ tests not so long ago- people with different frames of experience (ie not Anglo Saxon upper/middle class) and lower literacy have always performed considerable worse on the IQ tests. And yet people don't say "there's not as many Hispanic women in math because they have a lower IQ" because that is absolutely ridiculous, and yet you could probably back that up with an IQ test from somewhere. It is a flawed measurement of intelligence, for many reasons, and unfairly implies that certain groups are inferior.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:41 PM

And why should there not be a bias against low literate or illiterate individuals? Reading likely increases IQ, as you to some level you have to think abstractly and infer when you're reading- it exercises your mind. ANd not all parts of the IQ test involve reading- some is just shape manipulation.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:40 PM

Yeah, you might experience a drop in IQ if you gained weight on SAD, because then you'd probably be deficient in valuable vitamins, minerals, cofactors, and omega 3s that are likely important to not just physical function, but brain function as well.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:29 PM

So if I gained weight now I would experience a drop in IQ? That is what your original sentence also encompassed. I'm aware of all of these studies, but also am someone who doesn't believe that the IQ test is the be-all-and-end-all. The bias against low literate or illiterate individuals is obvious.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:54 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to believe, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet (probably vitamins, minerals, oemga 3s, etc) needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Seems like a sensible suggestion to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:52 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to believe, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Seems like a suggestion to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:50 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to beleive, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Makes percfect sense to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:47 PM

One explanaition coud be that, considering most science shows that adult brains consume lots of sugar, if you're insulin resistant the sugar won't actually be getting into the cells, depriving your brain of it's primary fuel source. If you're brain lacks proper fuel, it may also lack proper functioning.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:46 PM

So, the conventional view is that low socieconomic status correlates with both increased obestiy and lower IQ. However, new research shows that, although controversial, obesity itself may be correlated with diminished IQ.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:45 PM

"Aug. 31, 2006 -- Children who are very obese by age 4 may be more likely to have lower IQ scores, a new study shows...The study by Driscoll and colleagues appears in The Journal of Pediatrics' August edition....The gap between the morbidly obese children and those of more normal weight was about 25-30 points"

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:42 PM

"For the study-described at a recent meeting of the American Heart Association-researchers in Sweden compared the waist-hip ratios of more than 5,000 40-year-old men to their scores on IQ tests taken when they were around 18 years of age. The researchers found a strong inverse relationship between the ratios, which scientists use to gauge obesity and heart disease risk."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:42 PM

"Does being not-so-smart make people not-so-skinny? Experts say a controversial new study adds to a growing body of evidence linking low intelligence to weight problems. It shows that men who score low on IQ tests in adolescence are more likely to be overweight in middle age."

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:34 PM

"obese people tend to have lower IQs" by which you probably mean " lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of obesity and lower rates of education". At least I really, really hope that's what you mean....

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 12:44 PM

@ Eugene K- meal frequency has nothing to do with livnig off of body reserves.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:59 AM

How do you eat carbohydrate and not have a moderate increase in glucose levels 1 hour after? Transient glucose spikes are normal.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on July 30, 2012
at 11:11 PM

Although I have some weight to loose, I end up not in inuit section with my diet, but somewhere in the middle plus intermittent fasting. Works very good for me. It seems that even kitavans have infrequent meals, so they live on body reserves most of the time.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 27, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Good point. I don't know of anyone that is healthy on a Kitavan diet except for Kitavans. (Same goes for Inuits, oh wait, there is Stephenson, who has just about the coolest first name ever.)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 27, 2012
at 05:05 PM

IR folks are not going to be able to eat Kitavan style to heal. Once healed, then maybe. They might be able to do a PHD safe starch plan (which is still low/moderate carb), but some people may have to do a more LCHF approach to get better. And yes, two-thirds of all americans are mentally deranged.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on July 27, 2012
at 01:10 PM

@SatFat -- yeah. Some of the low-carb researchers (I forget who, specifically - maybe Dr. Mary Vernon or Stephen Phinney) call those people "normal weight metabolically obese." Basically, people who are slender but have the blood profile of an obese, metabolically deranged person.

4ecfe8ee47ea62a11be516cd59701a4b

(30)

on July 27, 2012
at 06:27 AM

Dr. Christopher Gardner the Stanford obesity researcher also made this claim recently. By deranged, he means insulin resistant heading towards metabolic syndrome. Yes skinny fat folks are metabolically deranged.

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3 Answers

1
Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 24, 2012
at 04:24 PM

The greatest benefit for me in reversing type 2 diabetes came from reducing the QUANTITY of carbs I was accustomed to eating. Macronutrient ratio is not as important as reducing serving size to an amount that can be easily metabolized.

1
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 10, 2012
at 12:36 PM

I highly doubt that 3/4 of American's are metabolicalyl derranged, but this is only going on my own observation and I have no hard data to back it up. For me, I'd say only 20% of the people I interact with on a day-to-day basis look insulin resistant. However, my sample is probably not representative of the general population, as I go to a very preppy, private university, and obese people tend to have both lower IQs and lower incomes, as well as not being as invovled in athletics. So, there's that.

And, you're absolutely incorrect in assuming a high carb, low fat diet cannot reverse diabetes. What reverses diabetes is exercise and acute, short term caloric restriction coupled with long term continuance of exercise and removal of seed oils and refined sugar.

You do not like to hear it but 800 calories a day with > 50% of calories from carbohdyrate for 2 months reverses type 2 DBM.

People get diabetes from binge eating and not exercising. Start exercising and eat hypocalorically and you'll reverse the disorder.

IMHO, exercise is vastly superior to eating a low carbohydrate paleo/primal/ancesteral diet

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:34 PM

"obese people tend to have lower IQs" by which you probably mean " lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of obesity and lower rates of education". At least I really, really hope that's what you mean....

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:47 PM

One explanaition coud be that, considering most science shows that adult brains consume lots of sugar, if you're insulin resistant the sugar won't actually be getting into the cells, depriving your brain of it's primary fuel source. If you're brain lacks proper fuel, it may also lack proper functioning.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:46 PM

So, the conventional view is that low socieconomic status correlates with both increased obestiy and lower IQ. However, new research shows that, although controversial, obesity itself may be correlated with diminished IQ.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:50 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to beleive, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Makes percfect sense to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:42 PM

"Does being not-so-smart make people not-so-skinny? Experts say a controversial new study adds to a growing body of evidence linking low intelligence to weight problems. It shows that men who score low on IQ tests in adolescence are more likely to be overweight in middle age."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:42 PM

"For the study-described at a recent meeting of the American Heart Association-researchers in Sweden compared the waist-hip ratios of more than 5,000 40-year-old men to their scores on IQ tests taken when they were around 18 years of age. The researchers found a strong inverse relationship between the ratios, which scientists use to gauge obesity and heart disease risk."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:41 PM

And why should there not be a bias against low literate or illiterate individuals? Reading likely increases IQ, as you to some level you have to think abstractly and infer when you're reading- it exercises your mind. ANd not all parts of the IQ test involve reading- some is just shape manipulation.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:55 AM

Being obese does mean you are nutrient deprived. If you're obese, you are insulin resistant, and if you're insulin resistant, your cells are deprived of glucose (because glucose cannot get in the cells, so it sits in the blood stream where it wreaks havoc). So, actually, physiologically it makes sense that if your brain is deprived of glucose perpetually, it will not function properly. Humans are unique in that our brains consume vast quantities of glucose.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:45 PM

"Aug. 31, 2006 -- Children who are very obese by age 4 may be more likely to have lower IQ scores, a new study shows...The study by Driscoll and colleagues appears in The Journal of Pediatrics' August edition....The gap between the morbidly obese children and those of more normal weight was about 25-30 points"

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:42 AM

The fact that you can use strategic methods to increase your score on the IQ test just goes to shaw that it's an imperfect measurement if raw intelligence.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:54 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to believe, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet (probably vitamins, minerals, oemga 3s, etc) needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Seems like a sensible suggestion to me.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:46 AM

No matter WHAT your size you could be nutrient deprived and therefore not perform optimally on an IQ test. Being obese doesn't inherently mean that you are nutrient deprived, and being normal weight does not mean that you are adequately nourished. The amount of stigma packed the statement that obese people have a lower IQ is astounding, particularly when there are SO ridiculously many confounding factors that are impossible to tease out of an IQ test.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Being obese does mean you are nutrient deprived. If you're obese, you are insulin resistant, and if you're insulin resistant, your cells are deprived of glucose (because glucose cannot get in the cells, so it sits in the blood stream where it wreaks havoc). So, actually, physiologically it makes sense that if you're brain is deprived of glucose perpetually, it will not function properly. Humans are unique in that our brains consume vast quantities of glucose.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:29 PM

So if I gained weight now I would experience a drop in IQ? That is what your original sentence also encompassed. I'm aware of all of these studies, but also am someone who doesn't believe that the IQ test is the be-all-and-end-all. The bias against low literate or illiterate individuals is obvious.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:41 AM

Women and minorities were "proved" to be inferior using IQ tests not so long ago- people with different frames of experience (ie not Anglo Saxon upper/middle class) and lower literacy have always performed considerable worse on the IQ tests. And yet people don't say "there's not as many Hispanic women in math because they have a lower IQ" because that is absolutely ridiculous, and yet you could probably back that up with an IQ test from somewhere. It is a flawed measurement of intelligence, for many reasons, and unfairly implies that certain groups are inferior.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:56 AM

And, I would agree that the IQ test is not a comprehensive view of knowledge, and is somewhat flawed, but I still disagree on the rest.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 03:52 PM

What you wrote above Jenny J is the conventional view which I used to believe, but it does not hold up in light of new research. Do you think that people who are obese, that by necessity deprive themselves of a diet needed to maintain good physical health, would not also have poor intelectual health? Seems like a suggestion to me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 11, 2012
at 04:40 PM

Yeah, you might experience a drop in IQ if you gained weight on SAD, because then you'd probably be deficient in valuable vitamins, minerals, cofactors, and omega 3s that are likely important to not just physical function, but brain function as well.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 24, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Being obese does inherently mean you're nutrient deprived. Our brains consume lots of sugar as adults, and being insulin means you're brain is not getting access to the sugar you're providing it, but your blood is. Also, if you are obese, chances are you got there eating a low quality diet devoid of many essential items for proper brain growth and function (omega 3s, iodine, for example) as well as not exercising adequately (exercise is beneficial to brain health). I think an unhealthy, metabolically deranged, obese body would also mean that your brain is not functioning optimally either.

1
54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

on July 27, 2012
at 08:36 AM

I wonder if Kitavan diet might be not suitable even for perfectly healthy people, for example, what if you feed healthy inuit perfectly paleo 70% carbs diet while his ancestors from the time immemorial ate around 0 carbs?

It would be also interesting to feed kitavan 0 carb diet for a while and see result.

Okinawan diet goes in the same pile as Kitavan diet.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 27, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Good point. I don't know of anyone that is healthy on a Kitavan diet except for Kitavans. (Same goes for Inuits, oh wait, there is Stephenson, who has just about the coolest first name ever.)

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on July 30, 2012
at 11:11 PM

Although I have some weight to loose, I end up not in inuit section with my diet, but somewhere in the middle plus intermittent fasting. Works very good for me. It seems that even kitavans have infrequent meals, so they live on body reserves most of the time.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 10, 2012
at 12:44 PM

@ Eugene K- meal frequency has nothing to do with livnig off of body reserves.

3d0093dd591d9b88db74d7bba970dea0

(222)

on August 24, 2012
at 02:52 PM

I'd contribute to a kickstarter for that research.

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