3

votes

Adding fat to starch never goes good for me...how about you?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 28, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I am not talking weight issues here but blood sugar issues. I could safely eat 3 pounds or so of potatoes with veggies and very minimal fat, without feeling like shit afterwords. But if I ever add fat, about one or so tsps, to "lower the glycemic index" it makes me feel shaky, sleepy, and very dizzy. Any idea why this happens? The idea to add fat to your carbs has never been good to me.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 29, 2011
at 11:28 AM

Does bacon topping do the same thing? How about fried potatoes? Is butter the only fat that does this?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 29, 2011
at 11:26 AM

I thought that carbs were my friend until I got diabetes. It's not that carbs are the enemy, but when you're overeating they're no help. Throwing a lot of fat in with the carbs makes a very tasty mix, worsening the overeating, the obesity and the blood sugar.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 29, 2011
at 06:32 AM

Matthius is right. And you realize that the time frame of digestion of fat and carbs is completely different, right? The insulin response from carbs has come and gone on the <1 hr time frame, fats are absorbed over hours, so the timings don't even work out for your theory.

4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 29, 2011
at 03:29 AM

can you elaborate on that more, rob? what do you mean they weren't good?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 02:28 AM

Thanks for the answer Paul. I have never measured my blood sugar so I don't know for certain if that's the problem. I think you are on to something with your second idea though. I have heard the idea that too much fat and carbs in one meal could lead to delayed glucose clearance. Which is one of the main reasons many do well on VHC/LF and VHF/LC, what do you think of that idea?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 29, 2011
at 01:49 AM

I would try tallow or butter instead. The medium chain fatty acids make some people (including me) feel wonky. I would also experiment with different starches. And try adding vinegar or another acidic ingredient.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:49 AM

No bloating at all... although occasionally I will have gas, usually if I consume sweet potatoes (maltose maybe?). Something that really helped was pureeing the tubers and making sure to chew them properly so the salivary amylase could break down the starch properly.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:25 AM

In order to be unaffected, I actually had to create my own salt capsules that were probably 1/4 tsp of salt each. It was ridiculous. This was a couple pounds of sweet potatoes in a day + the potassium from 3 oranges and some meat/fish. Seems like, evolutionarily speaking, this is the correct K:Na ratio, so I think I'm going to have to do a rice/tuber split and slowly increase the tuber portion. Another question, do you get noticeably bloating/gas from all of that resistant starch?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:24 AM

I have been doing a high carb version of the PHD but I began adding fat to most of the carbohydrates I was consuming after reading Paul's article on hyperglycemia, but the results weren't good.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:23 AM

Yes I know it is much more than a lot of people but I am very active; active job, athlete, young blah etc. and it's just what my body craves. I don't know what really happens but when I consume a ton of fat with even 1lb of potatoes I feel so sluggish. Most of the fat I consume is coconut oil. I'll try to get a blood sugar meter to see what's really going on

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:22 AM

Yes I know it is much more than a lot of people but I am very active; active job, athlete, young blah etc. and it's just what my body craves. I don't know what really happens but when I consume a ton of fat with even 1lb of potatoes I feel so and sluggish. Most of the fat I consume is coconut oil. I'll try to get a blood sugar meter to see what's really going on.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:19 AM

@ matthew I'm an athlete so eating this much food seems easy to me. @ travis culp...I would run into the same problems when I ate a lot of potassium rich foods but just consuming more salt solved the problem.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:15 AM

doesn't seem accurate. but if u are adding butter to potatoes, you're def increasing its palatability and you might eat more total than otherwise. eating past normal satiety will induce inflammation and the "food coma". my 2 cents

Medium avatar

(39831)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:14 AM

I run into problems with too much potassium when I eat a lot of tubers, do you? Muscle cramps/twitches etc. It would seem that there is an acclimation period for the kidneys to accommodate a sudden rise in K in relation to Na. I have to eat piles of salt if I want to eat a lot of tubers, even if I space them out. I eat the Constant Upheaval Diet® though, so it may be different for me.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:13 AM

I run into problems with too much potassium when I eat a lot of tubers, do you? Muscle cramps/twitches etc. I would seem that there is an acclimation period for the kidneys to accommodate a sudden rise in K in relation to Na. I have to eat piles of salt if I want to eat a lot of tubers, even if I space them out. I eat the Constant Upheaval Diet® though, so it may be different for me.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:46 AM

3 pounds of potatoes? Just how big is your stomach? :) I can manage eating a pound at most and I thought that was a lot.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:43 AM

3 pounds of potatoes? Just how big is your stomach? :) I can managed eating a pound at most and I thought that was a lot.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:36 AM

The combination is so nicely correlated to the obesity epidemic because it makes packing in large amounts of calories easy. If Americans were regulating their caloric intake artificially, there wouldn't be anything inherently fattening about the combination.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:09 AM

Actually, the consumption of carbs+fat is why 100,000,000+ Americans are medically 'obese'. Individual meals make a trend and the trend to eat carbs+fat is not your friend.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:02 AM

On balor123's question http://paleohacks.com/questions/85634/need-help-starting-perfect-health-diet#axzz1hsNfKBuy Paul J suggested butter on potatoes.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on December 28, 2011
at 11:59 PM

Look at the forest, not the trees; our dietary fat stores are in constant flux, so strictly with regards to long-term body composition (that is, not taking into account energy, satiety, etc.), the macronutrient composition of individual meals is largely irrelevant.

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4 Answers

9
9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

on December 29, 2011
at 02:16 AM

Hi Rob,

You mention that you think this is a blood sugar issue. Have you actually measured blood glucose with a meter? If you really think it is a blood sugar issue then I would recommend getting a meter and assessing what your blood sugar is doing.

There is an alternative possibility: there is bacterial activity in the gut as they feed on the potatoes, and the fat is carrying endotoxins into the body. When you shift from potatoes only (no fat to bring in endotoxins) to potatoes+fat, you get a surge of endotoxins and immune activity. The high immune activity clearing the toxins is what makes you feel bad.

Usually the gut adapts to this dietary change, releases antimicrobial peptides to reduce the gut bacterial population and tightens the gut barrier to reduce the endotoxin influx. So I would expect that the symptoms would be greatly reduced if you ate this way continuously for a few weeks.

You might want to try eating fermented vegetables, it's possible there's some mild gut dysbiosis at work and improving the gut flora might reduce the immune activity you see when fat and potatoes are eaten together.

You could also try including some rice, it's usually digested more fully than potatoes and leaves less fiber for the colon.

Best, Paul

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 02:28 AM

Thanks for the answer Paul. I have never measured my blood sugar so I don't know for certain if that's the problem. I think you are on to something with your second idea though. I have heard the idea that too much fat and carbs in one meal could lead to delayed glucose clearance. Which is one of the main reasons many do well on VHC/LF and VHF/LC, what do you think of that idea?

3
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 29, 2011
at 12:32 AM

3 lbs of potatoes is quite a lot. That's over 200 grams of carbs, waaaay above what many people on Paleohacks who self-identify as moderate carbs eat (100 grams a day on Perfect Health Diet, less than 200 grams on Mark Sisson's plan).

Are you sure it's a blood sugar reaction too? Unless you are measuring your blood sugar, it can be hard to tell. What kind of fat are you adding? Have you tried different types of fat?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:22 AM

Yes I know it is much more than a lot of people but I am very active; active job, athlete, young blah etc. and it's just what my body craves. I don't know what really happens but when I consume a ton of fat with even 1lb of potatoes I feel so and sluggish. Most of the fat I consume is coconut oil. I'll try to get a blood sugar meter to see what's really going on.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 29, 2011
at 01:49 AM

I would try tallow or butter instead. The medium chain fatty acids make some people (including me) feel wonky. I would also experiment with different starches. And try adding vinegar or another acidic ingredient.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:23 AM

Yes I know it is much more than a lot of people but I am very active; active job, athlete, young blah etc. and it's just what my body craves. I don't know what really happens but when I consume a ton of fat with even 1lb of potatoes I feel so sluggish. Most of the fat I consume is coconut oil. I'll try to get a blood sugar meter to see what's really going on

3
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on December 28, 2011
at 11:32 PM

The problem with carbs is not that they 'turn to fat' because they usually don't, its that in the presence of high carbs dietary fat is stored. Carbs and fat at the same time is the worst combo of foods possible. Carbs+Protein or Fat+Protein are the best combos. IMO -- the shaky,sleepy,dizzy feeling could be from having jammed up the highway that is your blood.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:09 AM

Actually, the consumption of carbs+fat is why 100,000,000+ Americans are medically 'obese'. Individual meals make a trend and the trend to eat carbs+fat is not your friend.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on December 28, 2011
at 11:59 PM

Look at the forest, not the trees; our dietary fat stores are in constant flux, so strictly with regards to long-term body composition (that is, not taking into account energy, satiety, etc.), the macronutrient composition of individual meals is largely irrelevant.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 29, 2011
at 11:26 AM

I thought that carbs were my friend until I got diabetes. It's not that carbs are the enemy, but when you're overeating they're no help. Throwing a lot of fat in with the carbs makes a very tasty mix, worsening the overeating, the obesity and the blood sugar.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:36 AM

The combination is so nicely correlated to the obesity epidemic because it makes packing in large amounts of calories easy. If Americans were regulating their caloric intake artificially, there wouldn't be anything inherently fattening about the combination.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 29, 2011
at 06:32 AM

Matthius is right. And you realize that the time frame of digestion of fat and carbs is completely different, right? The insulin response from carbs has come and gone on the <1 hr time frame, fats are absorbed over hours, so the timings don't even work out for your theory.

0
4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 28, 2011
at 11:45 PM

i wonder how paul jaminet would answer this question based on the perfect health diet? i'm starting to experiment with that way of eating as of...today, actually.

4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 29, 2011
at 03:29 AM

can you elaborate on that more, rob? what do you mean they weren't good?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 29, 2011
at 12:02 AM

On balor123's question http://paleohacks.com/questions/85634/need-help-starting-perfect-health-diet#axzz1hsNfKBuy Paul J suggested butter on potatoes.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 29, 2011
at 01:24 AM

I have been doing a high carb version of the PHD but I began adding fat to most of the carbohydrates I was consuming after reading Paul's article on hyperglycemia, but the results weren't good.

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