3

votes

The last ten seems impossible. Feel like I'm doing the right things, but not really working. Need Advice!

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 22, 2012 at 6:33 AM

This question pertains to fat loss, the last ten pounds, in particular - and my body???s stubbornness to it.

First a few stats to give any of you interested the necessary info. Also, thanks in advance for reading - its kinda long:

Present Stats: Age: 34 years old. Height: 5???11??? Weight: 197 pounds. Bodyfat: not sure, but feel around 20%

Over the past two months I???ve been tracking my diet daily, below are my averages:

Sugar: 35g/day Carbs: 99g/day Fat: 95g/day Protein:150g/day Fiber: 9g/day Net Calories: 1858

General:

I make an effort to get most carbs from potatoes (sweet, mostly) and veggies.

I rarely eat fruit.

I do have a weakness for beer, I???ve been averaging 10 drinks/weekend, and limit drinking during the week (mostly nothing).

I have been practicing Intermittent fasting for past three weeks (16 hour fasts daily).

I don???t have a sweet tooth, so when I go off diet, it???s usually a burrito or french fries or a cheeseburger, or beer.

Activity:

Began getting back into regular crossfitting about two months ago after a 6 month hiatus. The two months prior to starting crossfit, I began running regularly - 4-5miles 3X/ week. Currently at 3-4 sessions/week with crossfit.

I have decent strength for my size: squat: 300lbs, deadlift: 400-ish, overhead squat: 195 and place (approximately) in the 70th-80th percentile no matter the WOD. Not bragging, but there is some muscle under there :). Run 5 miles at 9 minute mile pace.

I feel like I???m doing everything right - but, It???s never taken this long. Couldn???t hurt to cut back on the drinking, I suppose - but that was never an issue. I usually start to see results within a few weeks, especially when I hit it this hard.

I guess I???m putting this out there because I???m curious what???s taking so long. I???ve been at it nearly 4 months now and have lost maybe 4 pounds. I???ve gained some muscle back, admittedly, but am honestly astonished at how long it???s taking to shed the weight. It wasn???t too long ago that I could just look at a pair of running shoes and lose five pounds.

Does age play a factor? I???m 34 now, everything seems to take a bit longer to recover from.

I work in an office, sitting on my ass 8 hours/day. That can???t really be avoided.

I could care less about strength - I???m plenty strong, and I???m not that body conscious - where my ultimate goal is to get shredded. I prefer to be leaner.

Just want to get down to 185 pounds and 15% bodyfat more or less.

My average net calories are at 1800. Am I eating too much?

Now that my strength is back from all the Crossfitting, should I switch over to more cardio: longer runs, and bike rides? These seem to do nothing.

Any advice is much appreciated.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I have never understood the "cheating" concept. Who or what are you cheating? Only your self and your goals.. Get over it, you are not a child, you don't need bribes to be good. If your goals are important to you you will do what is needed.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 29, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Alright jjtitus, and Matthew: I'm going to give this a shot for the month of June, and see where I wind up: 150-200g of protein everyday. 75 - 100g carbs PWO. Very Low Carb on off days. Daily feeding = high fat/low carb or high carb/low fat. 16 - 20 hour fasts everyday. CF 3X/week. No more than an hour of walking or light bike-riding on off days. And keeping alcohol to a minimum. Wish me luck!

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 29, 2012
at 06:43 PM

I think high protein is important all the time.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 29, 2012
at 01:38 PM

@Matthew So, from what you're saying, high protein intake is almost more important on your non-lifting days than PWO, since the protein synthesis won't peak until the next day...? Assuming you're doing a M-W-F workout schedule (lifting every other day)...

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 29, 2012
at 01:31 PM

Yeah, that was a while ago, and they still do if it's the wrong amount/type and/or I don't drink enough fluids and electrolytes... Recently, I've been experimenting with carbs PWO (not carb loading pre workout), in varying quantities and from various sources. I'm doing a modified "leangains" approach, workout after work in a fasted state (no BCAA) with my biggest meal PWO (feeding window 12-8pm).

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 25, 2012
at 04:34 PM

At 197 lbs, I estimate your maintenance at 2600 kcal

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 25, 2012
at 04:32 PM

I might eat a few potatoes or a few cups of white rice, and about 125 grams of protein. It's a lot, and it takes me 1.5 hours to finish eating. I get most of my protein after that meal because the window of protein synthesis caused by resistance training occurs between 5-36 hours, peaking at 24 hours.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on May 25, 2012
at 11:16 AM

jjtitus, you mentioned on my thread that carbs, even PWO carbs, make you sleepy, lose concentration, feel off, and hungrier/unsatisfied the next day. so you still do a carb load every workout? also, you are doing leangains; what time are you working out, what time is your feeding window, and do you use BCAA before workouts?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 25, 2012
at 05:04 AM

Also - my BMR is 1975 kcal/day. Is this maintenance, or is maintenance higher = 2300, as you stated?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 25, 2012
at 05:02 AM

I'm with you on the protein, 300 seems a lot. But manageable. Its the 300 g of carbs that has me scratching my head. I don't know if I could eat that much in one sitting. Or in one day even. Just curious, what is your typical post-20 hour fast, PWO meal? I usually do 50g of whey protein, a half-pound steak with two eggs, and two sweet potatoes. Which is about 50g carbs and 125g protein more or less. And I'm stuffed.

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 24, 2012
at 04:18 AM

It's up to you if you do it. Right now I am sub-6% BF, and this is what my schedule is like, so you take it or leave it. I eat alot of meat, you can do it. It's important to keep protein high when cutting calories to preserve muscle.

1d02c0c2fa9946de88d8f24e81ca1cf6

(215)

on May 23, 2012
at 09:39 PM

On the day when you eat only one meal..how about a 600 calorie meal? A once a week thing, perhaps? That's a 1600+ deficit for just one day. Your body (muscles) won't fall apart because of it. Should prove pretty motivating too, though with even fewer calories you would be well advised to rethink your exercise programme. I like Joshua's walking/ swimming suggestions.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 23, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Thanks man. I've been eating one sweet potato as a PWO refeed - looks like I'll need to up that to like 4 ;). I really appreciate you taking the time to break down the finer details of this stuff. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Cheers!

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 23, 2012
at 12:23 PM

CONT: I think the 150 gms PWO is sufficient, since I'd rather go a little under than overshoot and I highly doubt you will ever entirely deplete your glycogen stores... As always, adjust for intensity/duration (trial and error). I think Martin Berkhan recommends 16 hr IF (that's what I do), 20-24 hours seems a little long for every day (although, once in a while it wouldn't hurt). Good luck

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 23, 2012
at 12:17 PM

I like a lot of Matthew's work, but I respectfully disagree on the protein/carb recommendations... I go for 1-1.5 grams protein per lb LBM, and generally stay in the "Moderate Carb Paleo" (100-175gms) during my PWO carb re-feeds. It seems like the 300-400gms carbs is comming from the assumption that you need to replenish all of your glycogen stores (approx 1500 calories combined muscle/liver, roughly 375 grams carbs). I mainly use carbs for their protein sparing effect, and considering some amino acids in protein will contribute to glycogen creation, and there's still a few carbs from veggies

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 11:22 PM

Yeahyeahyeah ;). I suppose I could give it a go for a month. My diet is mostly there (Paleo). My fitness is there. I only recently started eating potatoes because I was going so low carb, it made it difficult. Also, I'm a man. Ripped or no, not sure how flattering I'd look in a bikini.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 11:19 PM

Mostly good sugar - avocados, sweet potatoes. And beer :). Of course I want to lose the last ten, but I also work a pretty stressful job and enjoy socializing with friends. This always involves drinking. It's a tough line to walk, I know. Thanks for commenting.

D613cc4b9409009d5735a23e9fec5886

(143)

on May 22, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Switch to wine or vodka. You'll drink less of it (fewer calories) and be just as happy a drunk. ;) What are the 35 g of sugar a day from? Good sugar or bad sugar?

1144bcd270d99a61c2bc6a23f6290d46

(234)

on May 22, 2012
at 10:32 PM

Alcohol packs a mean-calorie punch! Look up your favorite drink and figure out the calories. 10 drinks could easily add an extra couple of thousand calories depending on what you drink. As hard as you are working out, is it really worth it for the drinks? How bad do you want to lose that last 10lbs? You can always go back to drinking when you get to your goal. Good luck.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:19 PM

It doesn't have to be forever!

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:17 PM

In an ideal world, I should be fasting 20-24 hours - doing a CF HIIT, then eating a single 2,500 calorie meal (300g protein / 300g carb). Then, on off days, low carb, high fat (700 maintenance calorie deficit).

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:14 PM

With regards to what Matthew Caton recommended up there (300 g of carbs) - is that even possible? That's 7 cups of rice or 10 sweet potatoes.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 08:03 PM

Cans of tuna are your friend, Wild Planet sells the best tuna out there in "easy open" cans (BPA free), Amazon has the best price I've found... add a little EVOO and oregano and you have a meal-in-a-can, or maybe a couple cans.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Sorry man - but that many carbs is counter to everything I've read on the subject

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Ha, Kurp beat me to it...

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:50 PM

Good advise, I said something very similar, but don't you think 300 grams of protein a day is a little excessive? I generally aim for the 1 gram/lb body weight (a better measure might even be Lean Body Mass)...

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:50 PM

Hey man - thanks for putting this down. I'm doing CF 3-4X/week - and on off days, doing nothing - maybe a bit of walking, nothing more than walking to do errands, etc... 300-400 g of carbs? 300 g of protein? How is that even possible? Did you mean to write 30-40? That's 7 cups of cooked rice. And 12 scoops of whey protein, totaling 2875 kcal.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Thanks man - have a bit of traveling ahead of me: looking forward to putting this stuff into practice in June. See where I wind up.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:12 PM

Just don't over do it and get plastered... not good for your body, mind or sexual prowess, haha.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Going by Joshua's scale, I generally alternate between VLC and Moderate Carb Paleo... occasionally if I really kill myself I might break into the High Carb territory, but only PWO, no other meals. "life" does tend to get in the way, that's why I eat before going out with friends (or any social occasion), that way when I get the Sashimi platter I'm ok with it only being a snack (High protein and fat too!). If you're going out drinking on the weekend, put in a good high intensity workout before hand and make the carbs (alcohol) work for you... cont

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 06:33 PM

I like that idea, a lot actually. Also, distance running gets boring. Especially once used to the intensity and focus of a CF workout. I'll give the walk / sprint regimen a try, and (gulp) cut back on my beer-drinking.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 06:29 PM

Thanks again. Also, I've been assessing these values on a daily average over a two month period: Sugar: 35g/day // Carbs: 99g/day // Fat: 95g/day // Protein:150g/day // Fiber: 9g/day // Net Calories: 1858 During the week, I'm averaging around <50 carbs. And on weekends, 150-200 carbs. I like your recommendation of tailoring it to the day - VLC on off days. And carbs, PWO. The difficulty lies in "life" (social and otherwise) overriding best laid feeding plans. Will try harder.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:53 PM

I would say VLC = under 50gm carb, Low-Carb=50-100gm carb, "Moderate Carb Paleo=100-175gm carb, High Carb = 175-300gm carb. I bounce between low and moderate, myself.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Muscle burns more calories while you are resting then when you are actually building it. But you need rest to build those muscles. I bet you are more than capable of doing long runs, but frequent, short walks interspersed with sprints in addition to two CF workouts a week might do your body better. Running is very catabolic.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:16 PM

Great advice. Thankyou. As far as defining "low" and "high" carb. Is <50 considered low, or should I be shooting for lower than that? And as for "high" carb = 100 carbs?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 04:05 PM

I guess I'm wondering if I need to start burning more calories. I think I was right to get my strength back from Crossfit first. But most crossfit wotrkouts burn between 350-500 kcals. A nice long run however is double that. I'm wondering if long runs 3X / week and two CF workouts a week for maintenance might better do the trick?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 04:03 PM

It's something I struggle with. The 6 month hiatus I had from Crossfit was on account of work: lots of travel, lots of long hours, lots of stress. Then the holidays hit. And I fell off the wagon. Hormonally, I was a mess. No sex drive, started drifting into depressed states more often. Feel like myself again now - crossfit and regular exercise really helps my moods and my "swagger" and all that. I'm pretty good with the paleo diet, I really am. My food cheats - are maybe 1x a week (beer notwithstanding).

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:55 PM

That's good advice. Thanks man. I mean, obviously if I cut out the beer, I'd be in better shape. And 10 drinks a weekend, is a lot for some people - but not for me and my social group, it's pretty normal, in fact. And drinking them, supports your point - its relaxing, and fun. I work hard and like to let loose on the weekends with friends.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:46 PM

I'm 90% paleo - and, no disrespect, but if it's gluten-free, it aint a cheat ;). Although, I've had some gluten-free cookies that aren't half bad. Its the beer.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:41 PM

For 24 fasting: let's say I workout at 530pm, then feed right after - then wait until 6pm the following day to eat. How big should those meals be? 1000 kcals, 1500kcals?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:34 PM

I was afraid someone would say that

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:31 PM

Actually, BMR is 1963 (no activity)

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Beers are included, yes. Basically, during the week I average net at 1500 cals or so. Then 2500 on the weekends, more or less. I think my BMR is around 2200 or so.

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7 Answers

8
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 22, 2012
at 11:11 AM

I am 34 as well, am strong, but have a lot more to lose than you... and yes, being 34 makes it harder to lose weight when compared to say, a 24-27 year old.

Lots of folks are making commentary on what you are putting in your face...

I'd like to take it in a slightly different direction.

I've had times where my diet was dialed in and rock solid. Whole, paleo foods with macros at 40/10/50, keeping my calories at 2000, and lifting 4 days a week, plus biking or swimming in-between.

And I stalled. Seriously for like an entire month.

I was getting enough sleep, but I was waking up sore and tired instead of refreshed. Hormonally, I was a wreck (no more morning... umm.. you know) and just lost interest in the opposite sex. I was irritable, cranky, mean.

I was overdoing my lifting and other, at least relative to the amount of food I was eating. I had one of those "fk'it, I'm done" weekends where I binged a little, and the following monday I weighed in at 5lbs lighter (I'm not advocating a binge to solve your problems, that's not the point).

Too much exercise within a caloric deficit will cause your body to halt it's fat-burning process. I would either give your body more food and better sleep, or rein in training and reduce training for a couple of weeks... replace some of those sessions with some walking or swimming instead.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 04:05 PM

I guess I'm wondering if I need to start burning more calories. I think I was right to get my strength back from Crossfit first. But most crossfit wotrkouts burn between 350-500 kcals. A nice long run however is double that. I'm wondering if long runs 3X / week and two CF workouts a week for maintenance might better do the trick?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 06:33 PM

I like that idea, a lot actually. Also, distance running gets boring. Especially once used to the intensity and focus of a CF workout. I'll give the walk / sprint regimen a try, and (gulp) cut back on my beer-drinking.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 04:03 PM

It's something I struggle with. The 6 month hiatus I had from Crossfit was on account of work: lots of travel, lots of long hours, lots of stress. Then the holidays hit. And I fell off the wagon. Hormonally, I was a mess. No sex drive, started drifting into depressed states more often. Feel like myself again now - crossfit and regular exercise really helps my moods and my "swagger" and all that. I'm pretty good with the paleo diet, I really am. My food cheats - are maybe 1x a week (beer notwithstanding).

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Muscle burns more calories while you are resting then when you are actually building it. But you need rest to build those muscles. I bet you are more than capable of doing long runs, but frequent, short walks interspersed with sprints in addition to two CF workouts a week might do your body better. Running is very catabolic.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:55 PM

That's good advice. Thanks man. I mean, obviously if I cut out the beer, I'd be in better shape. And 10 drinks a weekend, is a lot for some people - but not for me and my social group, it's pretty normal, in fact. And drinking them, supports your point - its relaxing, and fun. I work hard and like to let loose on the weekends with friends.

7
7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on May 22, 2012
at 06:57 AM

Alcohol of any sort stalls me. I'd ditch the beer for a while and see what happens.

D613cc4b9409009d5735a23e9fec5886

(143)

on May 22, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Switch to wine or vodka. You'll drink less of it (fewer calories) and be just as happy a drunk. ;) What are the 35 g of sugar a day from? Good sugar or bad sugar?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:34 PM

I was afraid someone would say that

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 11:19 PM

Mostly good sugar - avocados, sweet potatoes. And beer :). Of course I want to lose the last ten, but I also work a pretty stressful job and enjoy socializing with friends. This always involves drinking. It's a tough line to walk, I know. Thanks for commenting.

1144bcd270d99a61c2bc6a23f6290d46

(234)

on May 22, 2012
at 10:32 PM

Alcohol packs a mean-calorie punch! Look up your favorite drink and figure out the calories. 10 drinks could easily add an extra couple of thousand calories depending on what you drink. As hard as you are working out, is it really worth it for the drinks? How bad do you want to lose that last 10lbs? You can always go back to drinking when you get to your goal. Good luck.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:19 PM

It doesn't have to be forever!

5
1d02c0c2fa9946de88d8f24e81ca1cf6

on May 22, 2012
at 08:55 AM

Those ten beers you drink at the weekend, are they included in your calculations? That's maybe around 2300 calories.

Assuming you're getting 2000 calories (sorry, many people lie, forget or are dumb) a day, that's 16300 a week. What's your likely expenditure (2600? x 7)..18200, maybe? That's a recipe for glacial weight loss.

If none of that applies, and you are a smart, truth-telling citizen, forgive me!

I would be tempted to extend (some of those) fasts to 24 hrs..or whatever. I'm about your age and at the composition you seek to be and found prudent fasting the easiest way of getting here (the easiest way of dropping calorie intake). Best of luck.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:31 PM

Actually, BMR is 1963 (no activity)

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:41 PM

For 24 fasting: let's say I workout at 530pm, then feed right after - then wait until 6pm the following day to eat. How big should those meals be? 1000 kcals, 1500kcals?

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Beers are included, yes. Basically, during the week I average net at 1500 cals or so. Then 2500 on the weekends, more or less. I think my BMR is around 2200 or so.

1d02c0c2fa9946de88d8f24e81ca1cf6

(215)

on May 23, 2012
at 09:39 PM

On the day when you eat only one meal..how about a 600 calorie meal? A once a week thing, perhaps? That's a 1600+ deficit for just one day. Your body (muscles) won't fall apart because of it. Should prove pretty motivating too, though with even fewer calories you would be well advised to rethink your exercise programme. I like Joshua's walking/ swimming suggestions.

5
67da69b34a0aae9182d1ae561621dfc7

on May 22, 2012
at 07:15 AM

Cut all gluten...one thing you don't want to "cheat" with is gluten...no burritos, no burger buns or beer unless it's gluten-free.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 03:46 PM

I'm 90% paleo - and, no disrespect, but if it's gluten-free, it aint a cheat ;). Although, I've had some gluten-free cookies that aren't half bad. Its the beer.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I have never understood the "cheating" concept. Who or what are you cheating? Only your self and your goals.. Get over it, you are not a child, you don't need bribes to be good. If your goals are important to you you will do what is needed.

4
5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

on May 22, 2012
at 07:25 PM

I can't even count the number of times I've seen a new client come to me with a nearly identical story. In their mind everything is perfect. They are simply confounded by their lack of progress. They think they are nailing down their fitness, and they are according this new paradigm of training your ass into the ground with HIT.

The reason why you are not getting anywhere is because you're training too much.

If you take my advice you will start seeing results like yesterday.

Walk on your days off from crossfit, no more than an hour, in the fasted state or not. Crossfit no more than 3 times a week.

Eat at least 300 grams of protein everyday, and cut calories 700 total calories from maintenance on rest days from crossfit. Your maintenance is probably around 2300. After you train crossfit, add/eat around 300-400 grams of carbs from paleo starches, or white rice is also "safe", while cutting back on fat a bit. Keep up with the IF, and it wouldn't hurt to extend the daily IF up to 20 hours.

You can drink a few beers after training. But you should look for beer without gluten, and try to stay away from gluten, as gluten causes gut inflammation, which leads to big increases in IL-6, which causes depression and other nasty mental illnesses.

Matthew Caton NSCA - CPT

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:50 PM

Good advise, I said something very similar, but don't you think 300 grams of protein a day is a little excessive? I generally aim for the 1 gram/lb body weight (a better measure might even be Lean Body Mass)...

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Ha, Kurp beat me to it...

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Sorry man - but that many carbs is counter to everything I've read on the subject

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 24, 2012
at 04:18 AM

It's up to you if you do it. Right now I am sub-6% BF, and this is what my schedule is like, so you take it or leave it. I eat alot of meat, you can do it. It's important to keep protein high when cutting calories to preserve muscle.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:50 PM

Hey man - thanks for putting this down. I'm doing CF 3-4X/week - and on off days, doing nothing - maybe a bit of walking, nothing more than walking to do errands, etc... 300-400 g of carbs? 300 g of protein? How is that even possible? Did you mean to write 30-40? That's 7 cups of cooked rice. And 12 scoops of whey protein, totaling 2875 kcal.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 25, 2012
at 05:04 AM

Also - my BMR is 1975 kcal/day. Is this maintenance, or is maintenance higher = 2300, as you stated?

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 25, 2012
at 04:34 PM

At 197 lbs, I estimate your maintenance at 2600 kcal

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 25, 2012
at 04:32 PM

I might eat a few potatoes or a few cups of white rice, and about 125 grams of protein. It's a lot, and it takes me 1.5 hours to finish eating. I get most of my protein after that meal because the window of protein synthesis caused by resistance training occurs between 5-36 hours, peaking at 24 hours.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 25, 2012
at 05:02 AM

I'm with you on the protein, 300 seems a lot. But manageable. Its the 300 g of carbs that has me scratching my head. I don't know if I could eat that much in one sitting. Or in one day even. Just curious, what is your typical post-20 hour fast, PWO meal? I usually do 50g of whey protein, a half-pound steak with two eggs, and two sweet potatoes. Which is about 50g carbs and 125g protein more or less. And I'm stuffed.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 29, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Alright jjtitus, and Matthew: I'm going to give this a shot for the month of June, and see where I wind up: 150-200g of protein everyday. 75 - 100g carbs PWO. Very Low Carb on off days. Daily feeding = high fat/low carb or high carb/low fat. 16 - 20 hour fasts everyday. CF 3X/week. No more than an hour of walking or light bike-riding on off days. And keeping alcohol to a minimum. Wish me luck!

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 29, 2012
at 01:38 PM

@Matthew So, from what you're saying, high protein intake is almost more important on your non-lifting days than PWO, since the protein synthesis won't peak until the next day...? Assuming you're doing a M-W-F workout schedule (lifting every other day)...

5447e1f37d3ffa1525dac55be36ee454

(1019)

on May 29, 2012
at 06:43 PM

I think high protein is important all the time.

3
44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 04:52 PM

1) I'd cut out the drinking for a while... you can always add it back in when you get closer to your goal

2) As I've gotten older I've noticed that weight changes slower, recovery isn't quite as fast etc... I think that's normal

The leanest I've ever been is when I eat predominantly very low carb (VLC) with strategic carb replenishment post work out (PWO)... I've done everything from high carb paleo to strictly low carb paleo and everything in between, but for some reason cycling between VLC and carb refeeds PWO has a "leaning out" effect. This is very similar to the Leangains approach, except I do VLC during all meals besides the meal PWO (if you don't workout that day, then VLC all day). Adjust fat per meal accordingly; High Carb/Low Fat, High Fat/Low Carb.

After you get things dialed in, you might even be able to use beer as part of your carb refeed (assuming it's gluten free beer) PWO! Haha

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:12 PM

Just don't over do it and get plastered... not good for your body, mind or sexual prowess, haha.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:17 PM

In an ideal world, I should be fasting 20-24 hours - doing a CF HIIT, then eating a single 2,500 calorie meal (300g protein / 300g carb). Then, on off days, low carb, high fat (700 maintenance calorie deficit).

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Thanks man - have a bit of traveling ahead of me: looking forward to putting this stuff into practice in June. See where I wind up.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 09:14 PM

With regards to what Matthew Caton recommended up there (300 g of carbs) - is that even possible? That's 7 cups of rice or 10 sweet potatoes.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Going by Joshua's scale, I generally alternate between VLC and Moderate Carb Paleo... occasionally if I really kill myself I might break into the High Carb territory, but only PWO, no other meals. "life" does tend to get in the way, that's why I eat before going out with friends (or any social occasion), that way when I get the Sashimi platter I'm ok with it only being a snack (High protein and fat too!). If you're going out drinking on the weekend, put in a good high intensity workout before hand and make the carbs (alcohol) work for you... cont

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 23, 2012
at 12:23 PM

CONT: I think the 150 gms PWO is sufficient, since I'd rather go a little under than overshoot and I highly doubt you will ever entirely deplete your glycogen stores... As always, adjust for intensity/duration (trial and error). I think Martin Berkhan recommends 16 hr IF (that's what I do), 20-24 hours seems a little long for every day (although, once in a while it wouldn't hurt). Good luck

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:53 PM

I would say VLC = under 50gm carb, Low-Carb=50-100gm carb, "Moderate Carb Paleo=100-175gm carb, High Carb = 175-300gm carb. I bounce between low and moderate, myself.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 06:29 PM

Thanks again. Also, I've been assessing these values on a daily average over a two month period: Sugar: 35g/day // Carbs: 99g/day // Fat: 95g/day // Protein:150g/day // Fiber: 9g/day // Net Calories: 1858 During the week, I'm averaging around <50 carbs. And on weekends, 150-200 carbs. I like your recommendation of tailoring it to the day - VLC on off days. And carbs, PWO. The difficulty lies in "life" (social and otherwise) overriding best laid feeding plans. Will try harder.

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 22, 2012
at 08:03 PM

Cans of tuna are your friend, Wild Planet sells the best tuna out there in "easy open" cans (BPA free), Amazon has the best price I've found... add a little EVOO and oregano and you have a meal-in-a-can, or maybe a couple cans.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 05:16 PM

Great advice. Thankyou. As far as defining "low" and "high" carb. Is <50 considered low, or should I be shooting for lower than that? And as for "high" carb = 100 carbs?

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 23, 2012
at 12:17 PM

I like a lot of Matthew's work, but I respectfully disagree on the protein/carb recommendations... I go for 1-1.5 grams protein per lb LBM, and generally stay in the "Moderate Carb Paleo" (100-175gms) during my PWO carb re-feeds. It seems like the 300-400gms carbs is comming from the assumption that you need to replenish all of your glycogen stores (approx 1500 calories combined muscle/liver, roughly 375 grams carbs). I mainly use carbs for their protein sparing effect, and considering some amino acids in protein will contribute to glycogen creation, and there's still a few carbs from veggies

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 23, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Thanks man. I've been eating one sweet potato as a PWO refeed - looks like I'll need to up that to like 4 ;). I really appreciate you taking the time to break down the finer details of this stuff. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Cheers!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on May 25, 2012
at 11:16 AM

jjtitus, you mentioned on my thread that carbs, even PWO carbs, make you sleepy, lose concentration, feel off, and hungrier/unsatisfied the next day. so you still do a carb load every workout? also, you are doing leangains; what time are you working out, what time is your feeding window, and do you use BCAA before workouts?

44739854bd06eb5c32af5d33aa866864

(859)

on May 29, 2012
at 01:31 PM

Yeah, that was a while ago, and they still do if it's the wrong amount/type and/or I don't drink enough fluids and electrolytes... Recently, I've been experimenting with carbs PWO (not carb loading pre workout), in varying quantities and from various sources. I'm doing a modified "leangains" approach, workout after work in a fasted state (no BCAA) with my biggest meal PWO (feeding window 12-8pm).

0
D3694f763957257a8f1e793a7fdad9ca

on May 22, 2012
at 09:50 PM

I had the last 10 to lose too and its always been impossible for me. There are no shortcuts. I’m doing the paleo challenge at my xfit gym. Devastating to give up booze, but 35 days into the 45 challenge I only have one pound to go. No potatoes and no alcohol and no cheat days. Make the commitment to stick to strict paleo till you reach your goal and then indudge in moderation (although I will NEVER go back to drinking like I was cause I feel to good the morning after). Alcohol is the center of my social life so I’m not gonna pretend it hasn’t been hard, but looking rockin in my bikini last weekend eased the pain.

01109277e48838b58279b1719fc23e72

(75)

on May 22, 2012
at 11:22 PM

Yeahyeahyeah ;). I suppose I could give it a go for a month. My diet is mostly there (Paleo). My fitness is there. I only recently started eating potatoes because I was going so low carb, it made it difficult. Also, I'm a man. Ripped or no, not sure how flattering I'd look in a bikini.

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