1

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My plan for a potential cut - Ketogenic Diet - any suggestions, discussion welcome.

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM

I'd like to ask for suggestions for my potential future cut, that I've been thinking about. Right now I'm eating 100-120 carbs on rest days and 380-420 grams on rest days - this of course is not what I plan to do a cut! I'm not crash-bulking right now, but I'm seeing good gains in strength, and no major fat gain. I'm aware that I might also gain a little fat along the muscle, but I really want to get my strength up as my current diet seems to be working out better for strength gains than any other before.

Even though I'm not a carbophopic, according to what I've read, going VLC and maybe having carb refeeds every 2 weeks or so, seems to be working very well for people trying to shred fat. My estimated BF is somewhere around 15 % (never measured properly), and any fat loss for me is purely aesthetic - so this hack unfortunately falls under the category of vanity - I admit it. (This is pointed out to pre-answer the common question "why")

But. I've always wanted to tweak everything diet-wise, but actually currently pretty happy what's going on. Ketogenic Diet is still something I like to keep myself "educated about" and I figured would this type of strategy work, should I ever feel like a couple of pounds need to be shredded off. Reason why I am asking this now, is that I've recently read a couple of interesting articles about MCT oil's and BCAA's role in fat loss / ketosis, and there's been a couple of good conversations on PH that I've naturally favorited.

Workout Day (this is the plan for Mon-Fri, on weekends would modify for a fasted workout):

7:00 AM - Wake Up

10:00 AM - 7 grams of MCT oil and 10 grams of BCAA. P10/F7

12:00 PM - Meal #1: eggs, spinach, ground beef, onion, broccoli and avocado. cooked in coconut oil. P80/C20/F52. 880 kcals.

3:00 PM - 7 grams of MCT oil and 2 boiled eggs. P14/F18

5:00 PM - Pre-Workout 10 grams of BCAA. P10

6:00 PM - Post-Workout 10 grams of BCAA. P10.

8:00 PM - Meal #2: 400 grams of 12% fat ground beef burger patties (w/ coconut milk & almond meal), avocado, romaine lettuce, dijon, tomato and two fried eggs, in coconut oil. P95/C23/F100. 1338 calories.

  • 6 caps of fish oil a day. Daily totals P212/C35/F178 - 2637 calories.

    I'm currently 175 lbs & 6'1''. This might be a little high calorie-wise for a cut (might not), but when I look at the food amounts I think it should be pretty doable, with out having to feel like hardcore-dieting. Then again I am fasting every day for 14-16 hours. I've read that MCT oil blunts hunger, so it might help if I need to cut calories more. But I think I would start with not too few calories for the first 2 weeks or so to get fat adapted.

I was thinking no fruit and no starch to begin with. Tomatoes are probably the veggies with most carbohydrates here. There might be room for a 20-30 gram carb intake for example from sweet potato PWO.

Rest days I was thinking doing similar approach, maybe having BCAA's only in the morning? Any thoughts? On rest days I would try to cut calories to about 1850, adjusting mainly from fat intake (using leaner cuts of ground beef etc.) and keeping protein somewhere around 185-200 and carbs well under 50 grams.

I appreciate all feedback - and I know a lot of people will tell me I'm overthinking etc etc, but this is paleoHACKS, isn't it? :D

p.s. I would also like basic opinions about using MCT oil with or without BCAA around workout, and MCT oil use during a fast.

Ceda025d1f349bc43be115a5f9199fb1

(501)

on February 20, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Cliff, that calorie amount packs fat on me fast. I don't have the activity level to support it. I would imagine a lot of people have lower RMR's from past dieting and bad luck in the genetic lottery, and limited exercise potential.

363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:55 AM

I just searched Jack Kronk Lab Hack and there seem to be a few - is there a date or can you link to it? I would love to read it.

Ba20b502cf02b5513ea8c4bb2740d8cb

(1669)

on November 13, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I agree 175 lbs 6'1" 15 % bf and you want to cut??? Lift heavy and put some lean meat on that frame brother!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on October 30, 2011
at 06:58 PM

That many carbs didn't make me fat either, but I wasn't able to get a six pack. On the other hand, I was constantly moving around.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on October 02, 2011
at 06:54 PM

I disagree, show me evidence.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 02, 2011
at 03:40 PM

cliff people that eat that many carbs have great epigenetics....Mallory is right few can do this. It also signifies that your adrenals and your liver are optimal. I know some can do this but few have those gifts....and you need to have that context.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 02, 2011
at 03:38 PM

Colpo is correct if you dont do ketotic right.....and few do. I just answered this to Grace in the JK lab hack thread

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 02, 2011
at 03:37 PM

make sure you read my reply to grace in the Jack Kronk lab hack that is on here. There is some gold in those comments if your going ketogenic that most seem to be clueless about.

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on September 27, 2011
at 09:43 AM

Mallory - This isn't an answer ;) Put that crap in comments.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on September 20, 2011
at 08:29 PM

hairly :D meant fairly lean.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on September 20, 2011
at 08:29 PM

i admit that this is a valid comment. like most of us, there are still some areas in our bodies that lean out slower than others. i my self have hairly lean arms, and even though my mid-section has definately improved on paleo, i just wanted some ideas if (and when) i feel like I could try to cut some of that's left off.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 19, 2011
at 03:13 AM

750g holy crap...that's hardcore, man.

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:47 PM

I want to agree with you here but you don't really know his body composition or goals. However, he would most likely benefit more from doing some sort of "clean bulk" rather than a "cut" at this height/weight class.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:30 PM

What makes me different than 99.99% of other people?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Yes it probably will, this guy isn't obese.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on September 18, 2011
at 02:53 PM

this will not work for 99.9% of people

  • 8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

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3 Answers

1
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 18, 2011
at 11:12 AM

It might work but I don't think its really necessary and it will probably limit your muscle gains. Check out these series by anthony colpo http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=751 http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=1498.

In my experience carbs don't prevent you from getting shredded, I actually get leaner the more carbs I eat. I've decreased my waistline by inches yet I've gained muscle all while eating 4-5k cals and ~750g carbs. Going lower in fat and adding more low intensity exercise(couple miles of walking) preferably fasted will be your best bet imo. This will allow you to maintain your glycogen stores and take advantage of nutrient dense plant foods.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Yes it probably will, this guy isn't obese.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on September 18, 2011
at 02:53 PM

this will not work for 99.9% of people

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:30 PM

What makes me different than 99.99% of other people?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 19, 2011
at 03:13 AM

750g holy crap...that's hardcore, man.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 02, 2011
at 03:38 PM

Colpo is correct if you dont do ketotic right.....and few do. I just answered this to Grace in the JK lab hack thread

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on October 02, 2011
at 06:54 PM

I disagree, show me evidence.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 02, 2011
at 03:40 PM

cliff people that eat that many carbs have great epigenetics....Mallory is right few can do this. It also signifies that your adrenals and your liver are optimal. I know some can do this but few have those gifts....and you need to have that context.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on October 30, 2011
at 06:58 PM

That many carbs didn't make me fat either, but I wasn't able to get a six pack. On the other hand, I was constantly moving around.

Ceda025d1f349bc43be115a5f9199fb1

(501)

on February 20, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Cliff, that calorie amount packs fat on me fast. I don't have the activity level to support it. I would imagine a lot of people have lower RMR's from past dieting and bad luck in the genetic lottery, and limited exercise potential.

0
1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on September 18, 2011
at 02:53 PM

cutting at 175 and 6'1.....?????

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on September 18, 2011
at 03:47 PM

I want to agree with you here but you don't really know his body composition or goals. However, he would most likely benefit more from doing some sort of "clean bulk" rather than a "cut" at this height/weight class.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on September 20, 2011
at 08:29 PM

hairly :D meant fairly lean.

8d1ce78fe7071f2f60fd59365bf21cfc

(580)

on September 20, 2011
at 08:29 PM

i admit that this is a valid comment. like most of us, there are still some areas in our bodies that lean out slower than others. i my self have hairly lean arms, and even though my mid-section has definately improved on paleo, i just wanted some ideas if (and when) i feel like I could try to cut some of that's left off.

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on September 27, 2011
at 09:43 AM

Mallory - This isn't an answer ;) Put that crap in comments.

Ba20b502cf02b5513ea8c4bb2740d8cb

(1669)

on November 13, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I agree 175 lbs 6'1" 15 % bf and you want to cut??? Lift heavy and put some lean meat on that frame brother!

0
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on September 18, 2011
at 12:35 PM

With this kind of diet, and I assume some days will include eating fish, is all that fish oil necessary? or a good thing?

One emerging consensus of the paleo world seems to be that everyone went a little crazy with fish oil. For a metabolically deranged standard American dieter fish oil is a great thing. But for someone who's balanced their omega 6:3s, reducing the total amount of PUFAs seems to be the best second step (assuming at least moderate consumption of fatty fish).

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