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Help me find study: Mice starve to death while obese?

Commented on September 18, 2014
Created September 15, 2014 at 11:20 PM

About a year ago I ran across an article (e.g. pubmed or paleo blog) or study that discussed some mice that starved to death while remaining obese. Their bodies "refused" to give up the fat. I cannot find this study and I'm wondering if anyone else knows of it or remembers the mechanism?

I'm in a similar situation. Regardless of calories (isocaloric or hypocaloric) or moderate or ketogenic calorie intake, my body does not want to give up its fat no matter what combo I choose. I've been trying for months and my waistline is always the same. I'm looking for material that covers the following topics:

1. Reasons the body will not give up fat

2. Strategies to get the body to upregulate fat burning rather than muscle

Background: I've been strict Paleo and it never seems to matter. My lipids are near-perfect and continue to get better but the fat does not budge. [Edit: My Thyroid panel is fine too.]  I used to be able to effortlessly lose bodyfat easily by dropping my calories, but that no longer works. WTF is going on? I feel like the rats from the afformentioned study. 

23a927c01e70c385353ffca9c6338197

on September 18, 2014
at 07:08 AM

Hi Justin

That sounds like a fascinating study! Let me know if you find it!!

Cheers,

Tessa

 

 

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2 Answers

1
01114547678b001f3e52cc3a9d343fd1

on September 15, 2014
at 11:34 PM

"1. Reasons the body will not give up fat"

Toxins are often stored in adipose tissue. There is a study that found humans with platic-like substances in their adipose tissue, and the substance increased in the blood when they lost weight. Maybe weight gain is really mostly about removing excess toxins from the blood and storing them in adipose tissue, to be released later when hopefully the body is in a better shape. I would work on things that help the body get rid of toxins. That's a huge research topic though, I think there is evidence MCT oil is good at protecting the liver from some toxins, such as endotoxin.

4da941c845854954cca0db6f774c2b90

on September 16, 2014
at 12:00 AM

Thanks. This is interesting input. My knowledge of realistic "detoxing" is limited to increasing fiber and drinking more water. My experience with MCT has been coconut oil, but I will do some googling regarding straight MCT oil. Any other info you can provide I would be appreciative. 

01114547678b001f3e52cc3a9d343fd1

(-23)

on September 16, 2014
at 01:28 AM

One study I had in mind was "Protective Effects of Medium-Chain Triglycerides on the Liver and Gut in Rats Administered Endotoxin".

While MCT and Coconut Oil have similar effects, if the objective is weight loss, I think MCT oil is better. This is because lauric acid, the main fatty acid in coconut oil, can be more easily stored in adipose tissue than capric acid or caprylic acid, the two fatty acids in MCT oil.

That said, I'd be careful to not use too much of either one, as taking too much might cause acidosis. Ketones are acidic, excess ketones could cause acidosis.

01114547678b001f3e52cc3a9d343fd1

(-23)

on September 16, 2014
at 01:29 AM

By the way, there exists such thing as 'MCT Powder'. I just know it exists, but haven't used it.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 16, 2014
at 01:50 AM

Our bodies do not store toxins in bodyfat. It's simply an unfortunate property of toxins; their being lipophilic. 

4da941c845854954cca0db6f774c2b90

on September 16, 2014
at 01:56 AM

@Outsider  Thanks I'll be reading into this. I'm also considering Adaptaclear. If I have any success with anything I plan to come back and leave notes for others to find. Hopefully it will be cut and dry enough to do that.

01114547678b001f3e52cc3a9d343fd1

(-23)

on September 16, 2014
at 02:07 AM

"Our bodies do not store toxins in bodyfat. It's simply an unfortunate property of toxins; their being lipophilic"

To me that sounds like describing part of the mechanism. It doesn't dispute the relevant fact that adipose tissue contains toxins, and that they can do damage on the way out.

 

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 16, 2014
at 12:32 PM

Do they do damage on their way out? Alternative health scammers will sell you things becaue they say toxins will do damage when you lose weight. 

0
F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on September 16, 2014
at 07:02 AM

In 1981, M.R.C. Greenwood reported that if she restricted the diet of an obese strain of rats known as Zucker rats… and did it from birth onward, these rats would actually grow fatter by adulthood than their littermates who were allowed to eat to their hearts’ content. Clearly, the number of calories these rats consumed over the course of their life was not the critical factor in their obesity (unless we are prepared to argue that eating fewer calories induces greater obesity)… these semi-starved Zucker rats had 50% less muscle mass than genetically lean rats, and 30% less muscle mass than the Zucker rats that ate as much as they wanted. They, too, were sacrificing their muscles and organs to make fat.”

 

Google the author & take a look at her work on PubMed

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 16, 2014
at 12:33 PM

I would not make sweeping generalizations about human health on a small experiment using mice bred for a specific dysfunctional phenotype. 

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 16, 2014
at 09:47 AM

4da941c845854954cca0db6f774c2b90

on September 17, 2014
at 10:08 PM

@BobK @raydawg  Browser crash. Here goes attempt #2:  Those are cool studies but not exactly the one I am thinking of. Vaguely, from memory, the study went like this:  We had some mice. We fed them fructose or anti-biotics or soybeal oil or something. Now when we starve them they die while obese. We then made tiny graves for the mice (albeit slightly larger graves than normal because of their obese size.)

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