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Fasting same as zero carb?

Commented on July 26, 2014
Created July 26, 2014 at 10:40 AM

I'm wondering if the benefits in fasting, can actually be achieved with zero carb diet as well? Such as, DNA repair, HGH, brain function and so on. Doesn't ketosis arrive when your in zero carb diet, or fasting? So maybe, as long as you don't eat sugar and carbs, but meat and fat, it doesn't affect the hormones?

What's your opinion?

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on July 26, 2014
at 07:51 PM

Seems to work for me! :)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on July 26, 2014
at 03:05 PM

100g seems high for a VLC diet. With that, I could throw down a sweet potato with my first meal, then do a russet potato with my second meal, eat a banana or a half a cup of rice, and still have room for a zucchini or a couple tomatoes. (If we were looking at net carbs, I'd have room for all of that and a half a cup of ice cream.)

When looking toward the benefits of zero carbs and fasting with zero food and a very low carb diet, I tend to think NK or LCHF with an upper limit around 50 rather than 50g as a starting point. (though, I generally go more by net carbs.)

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3 Answers

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 26, 2014
at 01:04 PM

ZC

Zero Carb, which isn't a great idea, is just that, you don't eat any carbs. This is used when you want to reset your insulin response, and also for fat loss. However, prolonged zero carb, if done without enough protein can be problematic as it raises cortisol and can lead to adrenal problems and interrupted sleep. You'll need extra protein to do this right, but extra protein creates excess ammonia which must be disposed of and puts pressure on the kidneys and liver as ammonia is toxic.

Further, consuming meat does cause an insulin response, though it's far smaller than that from carbs. If you eat too much meat, you won't enter autophagy as the excess will get converted to glycogen via gluconeogenesis, and once converted you'll get the insulin spike you wanted to avoid and it's no different than consuming excess carbs, plus you also now have to dispose of the excess ammonia.

Doing zero carb right is a very tight balance as too little meat and you catabolize your own muscle. Too much and it's not zero carb and now toxic.

VLC

Most typically you'll want Very Low Carb, not ZC, instead which avoids these problems. You'd stay at 50g-100g of carbs per day. This is (usually) a level of carbs enough to keep the red blood cells and the long nerve cells that can't process ketones supplied with enough glucose, without going into gluconeogenesis.

Fasting

Fasting means you don't eat any food for some period of time, but when you do eat, you eat carbs as well.

IF

Most typically, you'd do a form of fasting called Intermittent Fasting which means you have a limited time window in which you eat and you don't eat outside of this window. It doesn't restrict eating carbs at all.

Typically this is a 16/8 hour window, where you don't eat for 16 hours and you eat during an 8 hour window. You wind up skipping either breakfast or dinner when you do this, and you don't do VLC nor ZC at the same time, or you'll cause adrenal issues. (i.e. part of the 16 fasting hours are when you sleep.)

Also, you'd eat slightly larger meals when doing IF, the tendency since you're only eating 2 meals per day is to skip the amount of food you'd normally get in the third meal (usually breakfast is skipped). This is a mistake. You'll need to eat the same amount of food you'd eat in a day, just within 8 hours.

The reason for IF is to allow enough time to enter ketosis and autophagy, but it turns out that you'd get all the benefits of fasting within 16 hours without any detrimental adrenal issues which can show up if you fast for longer than 16 hours (such as muscle catabolism and adrenal issues, insomnia.)

So between all the above choice, IMO, IF with around 50g-100g of carbs is ideal.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on July 26, 2014
at 03:05 PM

100g seems high for a VLC diet. With that, I could throw down a sweet potato with my first meal, then do a russet potato with my second meal, eat a banana or a half a cup of rice, and still have room for a zucchini or a couple tomatoes. (If we were looking at net carbs, I'd have room for all of that and a half a cup of ice cream.)

When looking toward the benefits of zero carbs and fasting with zero food and a very low carb diet, I tend to think NK or LCHF with an upper limit around 50 rather than 50g as a starting point. (though, I generally go more by net carbs.)

0
687d57c33dcc8628df8f18c9d8994856

on July 26, 2014
at 01:03 PM

Could eliminating carb and sugar be the key for activating those hormones, or is it simply, not eating anything that does it? That's what I wonder. I'm not going for zero carb, but I do fast about 20-24 hours a day. Simply put, one meal a day. Not because I try to lose weight, but because no real hunger occur to me, and I feel great.

0
10121ac7b6beb99c0fbfbf1522c50adb

on July 26, 2014
at 12:12 PM

While fasting and ketosis are pretty similar, there are subtle differences between the two. Notably, in one you eat and in the other you don't. There is plenty of overlap in the benefits you mentioned, but the difference here operates on the maximum length of time you should be on either. Don't fast for more than a day or two, Warrior style. Zero carb, on the other hand, can be done for a good while longer, depending on your activity level. Just make sur to get the nutrients you'd be missing from carby vegetables, like spinach, from offal. (Vit C may still be hard to get from animal products alone.)

Even though ZC and fasting can get you into ketosis, neither are necessary; very low carb (<50g per day) does the trick for most.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on July 26, 2014
at 07:51 PM

Seems to work for me! :)

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