-3

votes

Why not test diet plans on China's prison population?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 01, 2013 at 4:36 AM

Note to moderators: I pose the following only as a gedanken (thought) experiment. It is not an attempt to troll.

I was reading an article on China's prison population & organ donations the other day, and thought to myself, "Gee, if they're gonna do medical experiments, why not diet experiments? How about putting these guys on Ornish or South Beach Diet, etc., and see who's boss? And test the specialty food & nutritional supplement."

Arguments in favor: This format would yield the BEST experimental data possible. We would have "captive" subjects - literally. None of those survey ex post, or food log of medical patients who may fib, forget, or snack with unmanacled hands. In a prison experiment, one has absolute control and perfect information of food intake.

The proposal is win-win for the prisoners. Surely most health diets are better than prison grub. We won't force any prisoners to eat vegan, or go on unusual plans such as Warrior Diet. They may have red wine. Walnuts. Free. Those on Paleo would eat like king.

We could also test various junk food diets. Those who wish to guzzle soda may. These too, would be voluntary, and I believe would become the most popular diet along with Paleo. They would get for free what I used to (and sometimes still do) pay for.

So, rather than have State Department whine about forced organ donations, I propose that we lean on the Chicoms to do the medical experiments on prisoners that we won't do. [/sarcasm]

Edit:
@ Monte
One advantage of lab experiment is that if something goes bad, it doesn't happen to you, but to someone else. For example, the act of imprisonment of a person, prima facie, suggests the person is not of positive value to society. At least for the moment.

Personally, were I in for a life sentence, I'd try to sign up for Paleo and tick off options to test the life-shortening partial effect of (1) a daily pint of Haagen Daz [any flavor], (2) a pack of Twix, (3) Entenmann's cheesecake. For liquid experiments, I am available for the Best Health All Natural Gourmet Soda trial.

Moreover, why do n=1 experiments in preference to n=1,000,000 (size of prison population in China)?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:23 PM

I can't help but find the "you discovered niacin deficiency, it's not unlikely you'll discover the cure for cancer pretty soon" inference in the first article amusing.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 03:48 PM

@ ChenZhen: Please don't conflate me with the State Department. Moreover, I'm obviously not serious. No country is about to do this. I much prefer to learn the Slow and Difficult way by performing n=1 experiments on myself.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 03:21 PM

@ ChenZhen: Please don't conflate me with the State Department. Moreover, I'm obviously not serious. No country is about to do this. I much prefer to learn the Slow and Difficult way by doing n=1 experiments on myself.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:02 PM

Godwin's law: Can we make the easy comparison to Nazi scientists now?

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 01:55 PM

My question is, will the testing occur on us or on prisoners? And which way do you believe more efficacious, a slew of n=1s unrecorded in the scientific annals, or well designed studies done on population-wide scale to get the final word on nutrition?

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 12:14 PM

@ ChenZhen: Please don't conflate me with the State Department. Moreover, I'm obviously not serious. No country is about to do this. I much prefer to learn the Hard and Slow way by doing n=1 experiments on myself.

1a641bbff1a7b0a70f08410376bbdf6b

(1587)

on February 01, 2013
at 12:06 PM

so we use the human rights problems in China when it fits us and otherwise condemn them?

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 12:04 PM

@ ChenZhen & surfing on a rocket: The U.S. prison population would make the ABSOLUTELY BEST subjects. Because it's multiracial, whereas China monoracial. But the U.S. does not permit prison experiment.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 12:02 PM

@ ChenZhen & surfing on a rocket: The U.S. prison population would make the ABSOLUTELY BEST subjects. Because multiracial, whereas China monoracial. But the U.S. does not permit prison experiment. Personally, I don't see the moral objection to the harvesting of organs from executed prisoners, whether in the U.S. or China. It seems to make perfect sense.

1a641bbff1a7b0a70f08410376bbdf6b

(1587)

on February 01, 2013
at 11:51 AM

+1 @ surfing on a rocket. This Q is tasteless, do you think Chinese prisoners are lower class human beings than the rest of the worlds prisoners? Get off your high horse diabeticbinger... (and no, I'm neither Chinese nor Asian)

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on February 01, 2013
at 11:30 AM

- 1 why Chinas prisoners and not the prison population of your native country?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 01, 2013
at 09:03 AM

are they still doing the soy diet experiment on Illinois prisoners http://www.westonaprice.org/press/experts-denounce-high-soy-diet-of-illinois-prisoners

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:27 AM

Interesting. I am aware that in general, the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and occasionally on the civilian population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:26 AM

Interesting. I am aware that in general, the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:25 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:24 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secret experiments, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:24 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of it, I won't ask.

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6 Answers

7
6d64cd6dc98d6ab763bd03678a317964

(2177)

on February 01, 2013
at 05:58 AM

Instead of using Chinese prison populations lets include the entire world. Then lets develop sophisticated statistical analysis and track these people.... oh wait....

3
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 01:58 PM

It is not even worth answering...

But maybe if you go to China and by accident will get to spend some time in prison - why not? I hope you are going to end up in Dr. Ornish group.

Anyway, don't wish for others something you don't want to happen to you.

3
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 01, 2013
at 01:39 PM

Why not? A little thing called 'human rights' perhaps?

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 01:55 PM

My question is, will the testing occur on us or on prisoners? And which way do you believe more efficacious, a slew of n=1s unrecorded in the scientific annals, or well designed studies done on population-wide scale to get the final word on nutrition?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:02 PM

Godwin's law: Can we make the easy comparison to Nazi scientists now?

2
887a9c6c0ee243584548f02d45c439a6

(415)

on February 01, 2013
at 07:59 AM

btw: There were nutrition studies done on prisoners even in US, look up Vermont prison overfeeding study for example.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:25 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:27 AM

Interesting. I am aware that in general, the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and occasionally on the civilian population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:24 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of it, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:26 AM

Interesting. I am aware that in general, the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secrecy, I won't ask.

24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on February 01, 2013
at 08:24 AM

Interesting. I am aware that the U.S. government does secret experiments on the prison population as they see fit, as well as on military personnel and sometimes on the general population. Obviously, the best experimental data of all wouldn't come from China, but the multi-racial U.S. prison population. But since there is no chance of non-secret experiments, I won't ask.

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 03:36 PM

This is already happening in the sense that prison populations are fed the cheapest crap. The U.S. prison population gets all the subsidized junk, and are suffering badly because of the replacement of animal protein with soy.

Oh, and the reason we shouldn't be doing this crap is because it is wrong. Well, I say it's wrong, but the current deal is pretty wrong, so if you went in and fed them a paleo diet with their informed consent, you'd be doing them some good.

But, in general, it is wrong to experiment on people against their will.

0
61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on February 01, 2013
at 03:17 PM

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:23 PM

I can't help but find the "you discovered niacin deficiency, it's not unlikely you'll discover the cure for cancer pretty soon" inference in the first article amusing.

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