3

votes

Do you exercise too much? Too hard? (Link to article on over-exercising)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 09, 2011 at 5:32 PM

"But half of the older lifelong athletes showed some heart muscle scarring. The affected men were, in each case, those who???d trained the longest and hardest. Spending more years exercising strenuously or completing more marathon or ultramarathon races was, in this study, associated with a greater likelihood of heart damage."

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/when-exercise-is-too-much-of-a-good-thing/

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on March 25, 2012
at 01:09 PM

Thanks for the Muller mention, a hut full of spears. I was curious and looked him up. I took a 6 months break from exercise to get myself healthy and now I'm ready to start again. I think the Muller system would be a perfect start back at it! I have read the book this weekend and I'm working through the fresh air book. Thanks again:)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:56 PM

Points well taken. Although, I'm actually pleased at being called snarky. Makes me feel young again!

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on March 11, 2011
at 01:27 AM

The sprints are the hardest thing in the whole week, and they are over very quickly. I might change my tune on which is most difficult as I start lifting more and more weight on Stronglifts though.

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on March 11, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Well, the Stronglifts program only takes about 15-20 minutes, three mornings a week. The calisthenics on Tuesday and Thursday are the Müller system - takes about 20 minutes and is vigorous but not overly so...feels like a yoga session when done with the whole thing - and the hike barely even counts as exercise since it's so much fun and the dog needs a good run anyway.

39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Dave - congratulations on the snarkiest response I've seen on this forum. I'm not one who thinks being insulting is helpful.

Bcc4479de4f16939076e0a00e2db1261

(94)

on March 10, 2011
at 01:29 PM

Um, get off your high horse Dave. People are tying to learn. Not everyone knows everything like you.

9055f14c31610afd4d3068ec48eb6d90

(984)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:46 PM

OMG!! I say that to people all the time. But that is because i really DO HATE TO RUN!!

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:38 PM

Harris runs, so might want to check his blog, one avid runner to another.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:37 PM

My body is like "Training is for suckerz. Tr00 paleo peepz get their exercise game on while PubMed Clicking !"

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:32 PM

This is actually pretty reasonable for an active person, although he doesn't say how many.

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on March 10, 2011
at 03:48 AM

This is your *reduced* schedule??!!

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 09, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Though, that would be awesome if we were! I could picture it now....

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 09, 2011
at 05:53 PM

Yeah, don't be like Jim Fixx. Wait a second. Are you guyz baiting us?

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12 Answers

3
52392f9b735e9e91dd3da26c9c28bbd8

(30)

on March 10, 2011
at 11:13 AM

This NYT article reviews some recent research on the effects of high volume running on scar tissue in the heart. It focuses on long-term, always active, non-smoking runners. There is scarring in heart tissues among most if not all of them. Even rats who are made to marathon-like running and high volume training, show scarring of the heart. Scared heart muscle is more likely to go into fibrillation because the contraction pulses across the heart become more fragile and lose their coordination. A scarred muscle does not have the flexibility and contraction force, so the coordination breaks down at mutiple sites. The good news is that this is reversed, in the rats, when they are no longer made to run excessively.

I have argued that metronomic training reduces the chaos in the heart. Scarring of heart muscle is an obvious way that would occur. A scarred heart cannot have the power law variation of heart beat intervals and is more likely to lock onto periodic contraction patterns---fibrillation.

This only looked at heart muscle. Other tissues of the heart may also be damaged, particularly the valves. There is often damage in other tissues as well, ankles, knees, hips, the foot, the upper respiratory system, the kidney (which has to clear the damaged proteins), and other organs that may be but in transitory state of ischemia.

We are not against running: easy forest running with cuts and variation of pace, or sprinting a variety of distances at varying pace, if fun and easy. It is the metronomic, forced pacing and long duration of long-distance running that is unnatural. And piling up the miles is not enjoying much of anything.

3
Medium avatar

on March 09, 2011
at 06:23 PM

When we talk about "chronic cardio" we're not referring to some obscure Dr. Dre exercise video.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 09, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Though, that would be awesome if we were! I could picture it now....

3
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 09, 2011
at 05:51 PM

Um, we already get this. Read Mark Sisson for gosh sakes! To paraphrase:

Move slowly (walk/hike) quite a bit.
Sprint once in a while. Lift heavy things once in a while.

High intensity stuff should be pretty brief. Low intensity - do quite a bit.

I haven't seen a single person here recommending marathons or ultramarathons as healthy. Otoh, if that's your thing, more power to you - just be aware of the downside. I'm pretty sure most of us here are.

Bcc4479de4f16939076e0a00e2db1261

(94)

on March 10, 2011
at 01:29 PM

Um, get off your high horse Dave. People are tying to learn. Not everyone knows everything like you.

39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 10, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Dave - congratulations on the snarkiest response I've seen on this forum. I'm not one who thinks being insulting is helpful.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 11, 2011
at 04:56 PM

Points well taken. Although, I'm actually pleased at being called snarky. Makes me feel young again!

2
33ab3c085652a0cfbd7ab15c049afd1f

on March 09, 2011
at 08:15 PM

I've been listening to this guy a bit lately. He is pretty vehement about limiting aerobic activity - http://www.naturalhealthpodcasts.com/PodCasts/heart_attack.mp3

He has a lot to say about fibrosis in general as well.

1
16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:35 PM

One thing not brought up in the usual criticisms of chronic cardio is that most of the research was conducted under the assumption that a low fat, high carbohydrate diet is the healthiest, so that's what the subjects were eating (carb loading, trying to be vegetarian, etc.) Over the years, you can get depleted on this type of diet whether you're running marathons or not. I'd be interested in seeing a study done of paleo dieters engaging in steady state, high intensity cardio and whether the same damage occurs.

1
A5ead9de259ae72f2165ecb12f4ae764

(440)

on March 10, 2011
at 03:27 AM

You can't feel guilty when you take a rest day or two. Listen to your body and train hard on the days you feel your best.

1
1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

on March 09, 2011
at 08:08 PM

I tend to just listen to my body..sometimes it wants to do two hours a day of sprints,rowing machine,elliptical,and a beach hike.Sometimes,like today,it's going to tell me" &*( you, buddy.we've done enough right now.Take a nap."

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:37 PM

My body is like "Training is for suckerz. Tr00 paleo peepz get their exercise game on while PubMed Clicking !"

1
76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on March 09, 2011
at 05:50 PM

20 minutes of lifting heavy things once a week, 4 minutes of sprints once a week. I think I'll survive.

0
9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:54 PM

Mark Sissons lays out some guidelines, but to be honest, the training WOW programmes he recommends I'd say aren't tough enough if you are really want to get competitive in any sport - I think both Sissons and de Vany got ripped and now just do the minimum to maintain that level.

In the article it doesn't really specify what how much these people were training also - like Lacey says diet has a role too.

Personally I don't think running marathons is healthy, I have no plans to ever run one.

0
04293f705870e1837b8670d3c1cd5f67

on March 10, 2011
at 03:42 AM

A friend of mine asked me recently to do a marathon with her. I haven't figured out how to say, "I don't believe in marathon running." So, I just told her I hate to run. That is the truth.

9055f14c31610afd4d3068ec48eb6d90

(984)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:46 PM

OMG!! I say that to people all the time. But that is because i really DO HATE TO RUN!!

0
E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on March 09, 2011
at 08:39 PM

I think I was overtraining previously, and have changed my workout schedule a bit in order to address the issue.

New schedule:

Sun - Tabata sprints (10x 20 sec. all-out sprints w/10 sec. rests between each)

Mon, Wed, Fri - Stronglifts 5x5 program

Tue, Thu - morning calisthenics, regular walking during the day

Sat - big hike with the dog, usually some tree-climbing and driftwood-balance-beaming is involved

I am also starting an IF regimen next week with a 16 hour fast followed by an 8 hour feeding window. We'll see what happens :)

16ac9720030cbf0908f56da404ab01b9

(289)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:32 PM

This is actually pretty reasonable for an active person, although he doesn't say how many.

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on March 10, 2011
at 03:48 AM

This is your *reduced* schedule??!!

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on March 11, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Well, the Stronglifts program only takes about 15-20 minutes, three mornings a week. The calisthenics on Tuesday and Thursday are the Müller system - takes about 20 minutes and is vigorous but not overly so...feels like a yoga session when done with the whole thing - and the hike barely even counts as exercise since it's so much fun and the dog needs a good run anyway.

E7dc4f2e3998906dd3213973a3c10d50

on March 11, 2011
at 01:27 AM

The sprints are the hardest thing in the whole week, and they are over very quickly. I might change my tune on which is most difficult as I start lifting more and more weight on Stronglifts though.

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on March 25, 2012
at 01:09 PM

Thanks for the Muller mention, a hut full of spears. I was curious and looked him up. I took a 6 months break from exercise to get myself healthy and now I'm ready to start again. I think the Muller system would be a perfect start back at it! I have read the book this weekend and I'm working through the fresh air book. Thanks again:)

0
3c7856106195fd0084a06b5892269d36

on March 09, 2011
at 05:47 PM

so if I plan on running multiple marathons a year I need to worry?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 09, 2011
at 05:53 PM

Yeah, don't be like Jim Fixx. Wait a second. Are you guyz baiting us?

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 10, 2011
at 12:38 PM

Harris runs, so might want to check his blog, one avid runner to another.

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