4

votes

Does what you learn about paleo lifestyling empower you to control your healthcare decisions?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 05, 2011 at 5:23 PM

My personal belief is that patients are frustrated with physicians because they feel somewhat helpless in the current system. I think when people realize that they can control their health when the understand what biologically controls it......it will empower them to seek what they have always wanted.

What say you hackers?

E7320c552ab7453d2ff45d4be79f6b50

on June 07, 2011
at 01:40 AM

Why on earth are you going off on me about this? You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. I don't want to go to a doctor about a personal health problem, so I can educate them in the correct response. I love to share information, but I'm not going to try and share it with someone who's not interested. Then you went and agreed with the person below me who said they don't trust doctors. Did I say something to piss you off?

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:57 PM

This sounds like a similar situation to my mother. Thankfully, she has listened a little bit and told her doctor she was stopping the statins and changed from using vegetable oil to using dripping and lard :-) (Shame she won't listen to me about wheat & dairy).

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:36 AM

I like "doctors as contractors" idea, (I am thinking the hard hat type). If I need something hacked off, pulled out or sown up, I am more than willing to let a Dr. do it. If I want to keep myself in good operating condition so that I don't have to have any of those things done, I guess I best do that for myself (after all, why would a contractor show you how not to use their services?).

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 06, 2011
at 07:03 AM

I'm glad for the 'commentyness', meredith. Agree on the 'real hope' thing. It really IS possible to have a lot of control over our health destinies. I think the med. profession needs to wake up soon or there's going to be a near revolution of people doing 99% of the work and hiring doctors only as needed, like they do contractors.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 06, 2011
at 06:59 AM

I love my doctor and I love my endocrinologist - but I'm going to fire both of them. I have a couple "minor" health issues that I don't want to sweep under the rug. Neither bothered to order or ask about even the basic blood tests I need for my 'issue' (thyroid/anemia). I'm sick and tired of what is effectively condescension with a smile. I've ordered my own tests and once I get the results will direct my own goddamn care.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 06, 2011
at 05:35 AM

Great answer!!! So often Drs do not listen....

8b982d4beccca9fcb85affe8d4bd4ff2

(1585)

on June 06, 2011
at 04:55 AM

Thank you for the kind words. Yes it was very hard to watch and even harder that she listened to them and not me, and that she didn't have the will to fight to live. But I have learned from her mistakes, and will not do the same things she did.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:15 AM

Yeah, see I don't have health insurance so generally I would be paying the full rate, upwards of $150, and I understand an appointment is a block of someone's time but thats a LOT of money for say MAXIMUM an hour, and if I can tell in the first 10 minutes I want to leave, then what is the protocol for firing a doctor? I guess I've generally been very lucky with doctors, and the only people that have really made me roll my inner eyes were assistants who asked me about my diet before running bloodwork. And only one. But if I had a doctor like that I would not want to deal with them.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:44 AM

Sadly, those are the type of people that would fire you and would go looking for a PCP that is more compliant with their wishes.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:33 AM

The best micro climate is to be like a good friend to a drug addict. Either get clean now so we can together make you whole, or get out now and come see me when you have hit bottom and then you finally decide you want to live optimally. I'm not sure you would have your license for long.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:32 AM

How many folks come see you off the street? Looking for a neurosurgeon without a referral? Your patients are motivated because they came by referral because their PCP said you are great. You have a captive audience. If you were a GP/Fam Doc, fixing "it hurts here, doc" or doing an annual and blood work up. You see them for 20 min. You have to turn patients to keep the doors open. Could you see prescribing Wolf's book to every patient? Unpaid for by insurance? Every one is SAD so eveyone should read the book. Is that going to fly?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:09 AM

I also have healthcare and can't afford it. My doctor had me get an EKG to check my heart after curing myself of high blood pressure. That cost me $900 I don't have. To make myself healthier and now my insurance company doesn't have to pay for quarterly doctor visits, blood tests or prescriptions. Yay me.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on June 05, 2011
at 11:18 PM

Tartare, I have a PPO so if I fire someone, it usually only costs me $20. I consider that a reasonable business expense, from my end, to find the right service provider. I also am on Yelp quite a bit, so I never consider a visit useless if I can warn others of patronizing or out of date practitioners.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:19 PM

very interesting perspective......I think there is a lot more than that Dex but I think the real issue I am struggling with is how to creat a micro climate to help that one percent. I have to figure out how to give them what they want in the best manner possible.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:17 PM

I agree sadly....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Marie you spurred me to write a quick reminder to myself. I think this is a great topic to write about.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:32 PM

Love this answer. Especially what you wrote about instincts (although I love your understanding of the position the entire system has placed MDs in as well) -- my instincts have saved my life, I'm sure of it. A++.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:22 PM

sorry bout my bad editing there.... it should have read "if you go to a doctor you feel is not listening to you and maybe has not kept up with the most recent developments in medicine"

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:17 PM

I really like this answer but I am curious, if you go to a doctor you feel is not listening to you and not maybe you feel this doctor has not kept up with the most recent developments in medicine, and you fire this doctor, what is the payment protocol? Do you still have to pay for a useless visit? I often pay for things out of pocket, and generally thats blood tests so i know where i'm at, and the occasional x ray and dental thing, but if you feel your doctor sucks, are you still obliged to pay them?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:13 PM

I love this........so far my favorite answer.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:11 PM

plus one.......

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I agree with almost everything you wrote -- I certainly share your passion! -- but I have a very slightly different take on why people "want" someone else to be in charge. I think they truly believe doctors are smarter than they are, and that even if they research health issues on their own, they'll get it wrong. It never occurs to them that doctors are just as human and fallible as they are. My boss, a very smart woman who's nobody's fool in either business or programming, practically worships her doctor, and is in poor health because of it. It's sad.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 05, 2011
at 07:09 PM

I'm so sorry about your mother. My parents are still here, but it's probably only so because they are really medicated. If someone tries giving me something to treat a symptom, I run like hell.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 05, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Thanks. I've been feeling very "commenty" these days.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:59 PM

Dude I love this comment.....I may have to use it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:58 PM

How can you tell a person to learn then come back and say you wont help your own doctor do the same......That is incredibly incongruent and with that thought process you are doomed never to get what it is that you really want.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:57 PM

I dont believe in limits.....because I do not allow myself to think there are any......so I completely disagree with your premise......your thought for this comment. I respect you opinion but I completely reject it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:56 PM

This is an awesome comment!!!!

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:03 PM

I have healthcare but I can't afford it either

  • Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

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11 Answers

best answer

4
Medium avatar

(4878)

on June 05, 2011
at 07:07 PM

I spent +15 years battling with an HMO regarding my "weird" physiological issues. You can imagine how PO'd I was to discover removing grains from my diet CURED all GI related problems. Blood tests, MRIs, bone scans, x-rays, urinalysis, colonoscopies, and such did nothing to "help" modern medical practitioners diagnose my problems. Then they decided it was all in my head and that I needed severe psychiactric help and "medication immediately".

This is when I got serious about my health. After spending so much time explaining I was not sick while living in rural foreign communities and that I felt "my body chemistry was not right in the US", I knew there was a solution in the food and began researching.

Who knew it would be so easy?!!!

But in those same years I was also battling chronic pain, due to a surgical mistake the surgeon blamed on my genes. (When a plastic object pops through your skin, believe me, genes are NOT the problem.)

I've had a LOT of experience in many different departments/specialties and found that physicians are in an awful position, too. When profitability is the only measure of their success and getting rid of high cost patients is a better maneuver than fixing them, it is no wonder the medical system has become a labyrinth. It benefits their system to let you get lost and to hope you move on and become an other's problem.

So Paleo taught me to LISTEN to my body AND my INSTINCTS. Your instincts are powerful forces serving to protect your vital DNA. The number of times I told my Drs that "it feels like plastic in there." only to have it pop to the surface 10 years later, speaks to the level of detail you know your own body. And these were not the only incidents where I was right and modern medicine was wrong.

Now when I feel a Dr. is no longer listening, I fire them. There is no sense in waiting to see if they'll come around to my opinion that I AM IN CHARGE OF MY HEALTH, not them.

It is actually a pretty powerful feeling to tell an MD "I'm sorry but I have to fire you." and it really reinforces who SHOULD be in charge.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:17 PM

I really like this answer but I am curious, if you go to a doctor you feel is not listening to you and not maybe you feel this doctor has not kept up with the most recent developments in medicine, and you fire this doctor, what is the payment protocol? Do you still have to pay for a useless visit? I often pay for things out of pocket, and generally thats blood tests so i know where i'm at, and the occasional x ray and dental thing, but if you feel your doctor sucks, are you still obliged to pay them?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:13 PM

I love this........so far my favorite answer.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:32 PM

Love this answer. Especially what you wrote about instincts (although I love your understanding of the position the entire system has placed MDs in as well) -- my instincts have saved my life, I'm sure of it. A++.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 06, 2011
at 05:35 AM

Great answer!!! So often Drs do not listen....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Marie you spurred me to write a quick reminder to myself. I think this is a great topic to write about.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:22 PM

sorry bout my bad editing there.... it should have read "if you go to a doctor you feel is not listening to you and maybe has not kept up with the most recent developments in medicine"

Medium avatar

(5136)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:15 AM

Yeah, see I don't have health insurance so generally I would be paying the full rate, upwards of $150, and I understand an appointment is a block of someone's time but thats a LOT of money for say MAXIMUM an hour, and if I can tell in the first 10 minutes I want to leave, then what is the protocol for firing a doctor? I guess I've generally been very lucky with doctors, and the only people that have really made me roll my inner eyes were assistants who asked me about my diet before running bloodwork. And only one. But if I had a doctor like that I would not want to deal with them.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on June 05, 2011
at 11:18 PM

Tartare, I have a PPO so if I fire someone, it usually only costs me $20. I consider that a reasonable business expense, from my end, to find the right service provider. I also am on Yelp quite a bit, so I never consider a visit useless if I can warn others of patronizing or out of date practitioners.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 06, 2011
at 06:59 AM

I love my doctor and I love my endocrinologist - but I'm going to fire both of them. I have a couple "minor" health issues that I don't want to sweep under the rug. Neither bothered to order or ask about even the basic blood tests I need for my 'issue' (thyroid/anemia). I'm sick and tired of what is effectively condescension with a smile. I've ordered my own tests and once I get the results will direct my own goddamn care.

5
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:28 PM

My parents eat more prescriptions than they do food. They do not think their food choices ultimately affect their health. They bought a Wii for exercise, and only play Jeopardy on it. They BOTH work in the medical field.

Frustrated? Sickened? Lost all faith? You bet.

But, through these open online venues I think there is real hope for those of us who wish to take personal responsibility for our health (and who want to teach the next generation how to do so as well).

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 06, 2011
at 07:03 AM

I'm glad for the 'commentyness', meredith. Agree on the 'real hope' thing. It really IS possible to have a lot of control over our health destinies. I think the med. profession needs to wake up soon or there's going to be a near revolution of people doing 99% of the work and hiring doctors only as needed, like they do contractors.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 05, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Thanks. I've been feeling very "commenty" these days.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:36 AM

I like "doctors as contractors" idea, (I am thinking the hard hat type). If I need something hacked off, pulled out or sown up, I am more than willing to let a Dr. do it. If I want to keep myself in good operating condition so that I don't have to have any of those things done, I guess I best do that for myself (after all, why would a contractor show you how not to use their services?).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:56 PM

This is an awesome comment!!!!

3
E7be2ce38158357f5dacae07b43d1b29

on June 05, 2011
at 07:21 PM

I started taking charge of my healthcare decisions many years ago. Paleo had nothing to do with it.

I got frustrated because doctors rarely were able to help me, so I started researching whatever my ailment was long before I would to any doctors so I knew what tests to request, what questions to ask, and know whether or not they were asking me the right questions. It's about research and self-empowerment, which is more likely what gave me an interest in paleo, not the other way around.

Most people don't want to research and take charge of their own health. It takes time, energy and a lot of background education most people want nothing to do with. They want some one else to be in charge, hand them something and make everything all better. Doing a paleo diet also requires a level of research and education, which also means a high level of interest.

My thinking is that most people who are interested in and stick with paleo principles are the type of people who are interested in learning and being very self-aware. That type of person is probably more likely to take charge of their health and other areas of their lives.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:11 PM

plus one.......

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on June 05, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I agree with almost everything you wrote -- I certainly share your passion! -- but I have a very slightly different take on why people "want" someone else to be in charge. I think they truly believe doctors are smarter than they are, and that even if they research health issues on their own, they'll get it wrong. It never occurs to them that doctors are just as human and fallible as they are. My boss, a very smart woman who's nobody's fool in either business or programming, practically worships her doctor, and is in poor health because of it. It's sad.

2
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 05, 2011
at 09:10 PM

Folks have all but surrendered to the health care professionals as being the last word in the fixing field. As Uggla says the fix kills people.

Yes, people are frustrated but as long as we are married to employer and/or government paid insurance for our healthcare, the doctor always knows best. Why, because we don't want to pay out of pocket for any treatment that is not authorized.

The doctor is always right. The person in the white coat is always right because that's the way it is for 99% of the folks. That leaves 1% or 3.2 million of us who take the initiative with our healthcare. Can it really be that many? I doubt it.

And of those 1% how many are paleo?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:32 AM

How many folks come see you off the street? Looking for a neurosurgeon without a referral? Your patients are motivated because they came by referral because their PCP said you are great. You have a captive audience. If you were a GP/Fam Doc, fixing "it hurts here, doc" or doing an annual and blood work up. You see them for 20 min. You have to turn patients to keep the doors open. Could you see prescribing Wolf's book to every patient? Unpaid for by insurance? Every one is SAD so eveyone should read the book. Is that going to fly?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:19 PM

very interesting perspective......I think there is a lot more than that Dex but I think the real issue I am struggling with is how to creat a micro climate to help that one percent. I have to figure out how to give them what they want in the best manner possible.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:33 AM

The best micro climate is to be like a good friend to a drug addict. Either get clean now so we can together make you whole, or get out now and come see me when you have hit bottom and then you finally decide you want to live optimally. I'm not sure you would have your license for long.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:44 AM

Sadly, those are the type of people that would fire you and would go looking for a PCP that is more compliant with their wishes.

2
Medium avatar

on June 05, 2011
at 05:34 PM

I don't have any healthcare. I can't afford it. :(

So yeah...pretty helpless.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:59 PM

Dude I love this comment.....I may have to use it.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:03 PM

I have healthcare but I can't afford it either

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:09 AM

I also have healthcare and can't afford it. My doctor had me get an EKG to check my heart after curing myself of high blood pressure. That cost me $900 I don't have. To make myself healthier and now my insurance company doesn't have to pay for quarterly doctor visits, blood tests or prescriptions. Yay me.

1
Medium avatar

on June 06, 2011
at 06:10 PM

I stopped trusting doctors long before I had heard of paleo. I have something called vaginismus (google it if you have no idea what it is) which started around 18 when I started being sexually active. I went to my gyno and told her how much pain I was in when I tried to have sex, and she told me that I wasn't using enough lubricant. Three years and three boyfriend's later, I was in a committed, loving relationship and still having the same problem. I told her again. She told me to "have some wine before hand to help me relax."
Needless to say, I went to another doctor. That doctor looked at me and her suggestion involved minor surgery. I walked out of that doctor's office with 8 stitches in a VERY sensitive area. She didn't bother to tell me before hand that it would take 2 weeks to heal, that walking, sitting, and bending would be extremely painful. I couldn't go to class for a week and couldn't hardly do something as simple as go grocery shopping. Thankfully my boyfriend did everything for me during that time. After it healed, the scar tissue only made everything worse. Finally, after spending YEARS researching on the internet, I found a name for my condition. Vaginismus. I went back to that same practice and told that doctor, "I think I have vaginismus". And you know what she said? "Oh, that would make sense. We actually have a doctor here who specializes in that." excuse me? she cut on me rather than send me to someone else in her own practice?? I realized then that most of us can find out most of what doctors know. Its not as secret as they want us to believe. I know more about my condition than 85% of gynecologists in the US.

With some elbow grease you can know enough to make wise decisions about your own health. I save doctors for if I need something cut out, stitched up or put back in place. But in another 10 years I'll start having to go more often for mammograms and things because my mom had breast cancer.

1
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 06, 2011
at 05:41 AM

I know that eating well and exercising will keep me out of the doctors office as much as possible. When I do need to go to the doctor there is usually something better for me healthwise that I can do as an alternative.

1
B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on June 05, 2011
at 11:57 PM

i feel sorry for my doctor. he's a good man, but he is surrounded by sick people who read XYZ on the net and insist on having the new wonder drug to fix the ailment the internet expert says they have no control over. he has no time for patients who are healthy by comparison.

i decided long ago that i was not going to allow living to kill me as both my parents had. gaining an understanding of paleo diet principles was another step in my evolution. change is good.

1
75051260ff90bccec44d6a6bbba97fd1

on June 05, 2011
at 09:08 PM

I learned I cant trust doctors because they can trick you into thinking they really care when really thye want to get you out the door. Paleo has saved me by teaching me to think outside the box.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 10:17 PM

I agree sadly....

1
E7320c552ab7453d2ff45d4be79f6b50

on June 05, 2011
at 06:46 PM

I agree, but not everyone can have the same level of Nutritional and scientific understanding that the rest of us can.....

So I say, learn what you can....or what you have time to learn....to take control of your own health. And then rely upon Paleo physicians to help you with the rest. Conventional doctors are for the birds. I refuse to visit a doctor who knows less about health and nutrition than I do!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:57 PM

I dont believe in limits.....because I do not allow myself to think there are any......so I completely disagree with your premise......your thought for this comment. I respect you opinion but I completely reject it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 05, 2011
at 06:58 PM

How can you tell a person to learn then come back and say you wont help your own doctor do the same......That is incredibly incongruent and with that thought process you are doomed never to get what it is that you really want.

E7320c552ab7453d2ff45d4be79f6b50

on June 07, 2011
at 01:40 AM

Why on earth are you going off on me about this? You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. I don't want to go to a doctor about a personal health problem, so I can educate them in the correct response. I love to share information, but I'm not going to try and share it with someone who's not interested. Then you went and agreed with the person below me who said they don't trust doctors. Did I say something to piss you off?

1
8b982d4beccca9fcb85affe8d4bd4ff2

(1585)

on June 05, 2011
at 05:50 PM

I watched my mother's doctors "fix" her the unnatural way and she died at the young age of 52. She took over 40 doctor prescribed pills to "fix" her mental and health issues which only grew worse and worse and their "help" eventually killed her. So I am no fan of modern medicine. And being Paleo just confirms what I knew all along about conventional wisdom.

Now herbalism in the natural simple form I am all for! That together with healthy eating and activity doctors can be mostly avoided.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on June 05, 2011
at 07:09 PM

I'm so sorry about your mother. My parents are still here, but it's probably only so because they are really medicated. If someone tries giving me something to treat a symptom, I run like hell.

8b982d4beccca9fcb85affe8d4bd4ff2

(1585)

on June 06, 2011
at 04:55 AM

Thank you for the kind words. Yes it was very hard to watch and even harder that she listened to them and not me, and that she didn't have the will to fight to live. But I have learned from her mistakes, and will not do the same things she did.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:57 PM

This sounds like a similar situation to my mother. Thankfully, she has listened a little bit and told her doctor she was stopping the statins and changed from using vegetable oil to using dripping and lard :-) (Shame she won't listen to me about wheat & dairy).

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