2

votes

Would you try Provigil (Modafinil) for any reason?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 03, 2011 at 1:32 PM

Dave Aspey has a version of Paleo nutrition: http://www.bulletproofexec.com/the-complete-illustrated-one-page-bulletproof-diet/

I'm not sure about this drug Provigil (modafinil) drug that he claims helps with cognition and IQ:

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/why-you-are-suffering-from-a-modafinil-deficiency/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bulletproofexec+%28Bulletproof+Executive%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Personally I'd prefer to get my cognitive boost from Paleo Whole foods like butter, and fish. A

I'm concerned because page 3 lists adverse effects and page 4 lists SJS -an autoimmune disorder! http://www.rxlist.com/provigil-drug.htm

I would be wary of using it, especially anyone with autoimmune, liver, mood, and abuse potential!

I'm not sure why he's promoting it??!! Is there a whole food version of this, or is it found in some natural whole foods?

Someone I care about is interested in it and I want to show them this feedback. Any biochemists, organic chemists, and pharmacists who would like to comment on the safety of this?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Yoicks, add on the doctor's visit for the prescription and that adds up fast. Must be nice being a rich silicon valley exec...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 04, 2011
at 01:37 AM

Lyle is awesome. I learned so freaking much from reading his stuff. And he puts up with zero bullshit, which sucks if you get his wrath but is awesome when illogical idiots showed up. I think his forum was the very first one I ever signed onto, right when I got my first laptop. Oh man, your post (well, username) has really dug up some memories. Thanks!

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 11:29 PM

Haha pretty ridiculous he would offer it to a stranger. Nobody needs DNP anyway, they'd do better to learn patience. Yeah, Lyle decided it wouldn't make sense to write a book on IF, since that's Martin's topic. And there would be no point on bringing Martin to write about anything except IF. Lyle's polarizing, but I can't think of anyone who knows more about nutrition than him. Alan Aragon is good too. I would also consider Lyle the world's foremost Leptin expert. I don't remember DieselWiesel, probably cause I'm a fairly recent member of Lyle's forums (only a few years) :)

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:53 PM

I suppose, but unless it was right before some impending doom, I doubt there'd be a net benefit. I kind of like keeping my adenosine levels and receptors as normal as possible.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:12 PM

Same here- I've had a total of half a cup of coffee in my life. But sometimes I wonder if my paradigm is off-- heightened temporary mental states may be worthwhile, especially since the world could end any time a supervolcano decides to explode.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Do you remember DieselWiesel?? Ah, memories.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:10 PM

DNP + leptin reset? That's powerful stuff. Don't want to let that loose in the paleo community :) Sucks that Conciliator left. Incredibly sharp guy. If my memory serves me correctly, right when he was going to start DNP, he messaged me to ask if I would buy it for him! I was like "umm...the hardest thing I've taken is NO-Xplode...". A while back it seemed like Lyle was going to write a book with Martin Berkhan but it seems like that's not going to happen either. I thought Lyle was the most polarizing nutrition dude until this latest flourish.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 08:36 PM

Last I heard he combined DNP with the leptin reset and lost all his bodyfat. Actually I have no idea but he got in a fight with Lyle and hasn't posted there in a long time. Super knowledgeable, especially about drugs. Actually, almost everyone on that board is super knowledgeable. Those who don't know their stuff get ripped to shreds and leave.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:52 PM

Nah, I never ingest any stimulants. They mess with your baseline. I'd rather feel good 99% of the time than feel amazing for a little while and then terrible until I take another dose. I feel like these things could damage the brain. I overclock my CPUs, but I don't act like the life is unchanged.

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:49 PM

True. I used it after college for a few years to stay awake in meetings at work. But now that I can stay awake I have stopped. BTW last time I checked it was like $5/pill or something.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:12 PM

I agree with this. But sometimes life interferes, and I think it's better to have it in your toolkit than not. i.e. use it as a tool and not a crutch. Of course, that can be hard to tell sometimes (we humans do tend to delude ourselves a lot. :) ).

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Coffee? It's almost a pharmaceutical.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:05 PM

Yes! I am proud of my elephant memory. Conciliator was all up in DNP back then. I wonder what happened to him.

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on November 03, 2011
at 05:51 PM

Rethinking this, let me add that it can be very useful in certain situations. However, they are situations you should probably try to avoid if they cause you to "need" modinafil to get through them.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on November 03, 2011
at 04:52 PM

Nicotine shouldn't be at the end of the list. It is true that smoking has a higher damage associated with it, but that's because of the inhalation of smoke and many different chemicals, like tar. Alternative forms of nicotine delivery reduce those risks. Also, some amphetamines are likely to put you in the ground faster than chain smoking would.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 04:42 PM

No I am not, although I am familiar with him and the forums. I was actually thinking of him when I chose this name.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 03:02 PM

The chances of this are very low...but are you conciliator from Lyle McDonald's forums circa 2004?

  • 8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

    asked by

    (6244)
  • Views
    5.6K
  • Last Activity
    1280D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

6 Answers

4
Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

on November 03, 2011
at 02:11 PM

Butter and fish oil won't give you the same level of cognitive boost as pharmaceuticals in the short term. If you are interested in short term performance enhancement modafinil or any amphetamine (think adderall) would be a good place to start. Bupropion or ephedrine would also be useful. Finally, nicotine.

In benefit:damage I would rank them ephedrine, bupropion, modafinil, amphetamines, nicotine.

I can't think of any lasting damage from short term use at moderate dosages. So they have their use if you need to stay up all night once in a while. However, staying up all night is bad for you anyway and in my experience most people use things like this as a crutch for poor study/procrastination habits.

As far as long term... omega 3s, balanced and varied diet, and cardio. I would imagine NOT ketosis although there's no evidence to say that ketosis is bad long term (but it simply isn't well studied enough to say that it is no worse long term. We just don't know). Oh, and being overweight is bad for your brain. If you don't like cardio, do something else. Exercise is more important than which exercise.

Fun fact: Paul Erdos (big name mathematician) was a big user of amphetamines. People take the drugs mentioned earlier to help them perform during academic/video game competitions.

Edit: And one more thing, just because there is a 'natural' version of a drug that enhances cognitive function doesn't mean it is healthier. You asked for 'whole foods' alternatives. Coca leaves and tobacco are whole foods, that doesn't make them healthier per se.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 04:42 PM

No I am not, although I am familiar with him and the forums. I was actually thinking of him when I chose this name.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:05 PM

Yes! I am proud of my elephant memory. Conciliator was all up in DNP back then. I wonder what happened to him.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 04, 2011
at 01:37 AM

Lyle is awesome. I learned so freaking much from reading his stuff. And he puts up with zero bullshit, which sucks if you get his wrath but is awesome when illogical idiots showed up. I think his forum was the very first one I ever signed onto, right when I got my first laptop. Oh man, your post (well, username) has really dug up some memories. Thanks!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Do you remember DieselWiesel?? Ah, memories.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 03:02 PM

The chances of this are very low...but are you conciliator from Lyle McDonald's forums circa 2004?

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on November 03, 2011
at 04:52 PM

Nicotine shouldn't be at the end of the list. It is true that smoking has a higher damage associated with it, but that's because of the inhalation of smoke and many different chemicals, like tar. Alternative forms of nicotine delivery reduce those risks. Also, some amphetamines are likely to put you in the ground faster than chain smoking would.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 08:36 PM

Last I heard he combined DNP with the leptin reset and lost all his bodyfat. Actually I have no idea but he got in a fight with Lyle and hasn't posted there in a long time. Super knowledgeable, especially about drugs. Actually, almost everyone on that board is super knowledgeable. Those who don't know their stuff get ripped to shreds and leave.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:10 PM

DNP + leptin reset? That's powerful stuff. Don't want to let that loose in the paleo community :) Sucks that Conciliator left. Incredibly sharp guy. If my memory serves me correctly, right when he was going to start DNP, he messaged me to ask if I would buy it for him! I was like "umm...the hardest thing I've taken is NO-Xplode...". A while back it seemed like Lyle was going to write a book with Martin Berkhan but it seems like that's not going to happen either. I thought Lyle was the most polarizing nutrition dude until this latest flourish.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on November 03, 2011
at 11:29 PM

Haha pretty ridiculous he would offer it to a stranger. Nobody needs DNP anyway, they'd do better to learn patience. Yeah, Lyle decided it wouldn't make sense to write a book on IF, since that's Martin's topic. And there would be no point on bringing Martin to write about anything except IF. Lyle's polarizing, but I can't think of anyone who knows more about nutrition than him. Alan Aragon is good too. I would also consider Lyle the world's foremost Leptin expert. I don't remember DieselWiesel, probably cause I'm a fairly recent member of Lyle's forums (only a few years) :)

2
E286e6ba6ef6c4c4a31a749e59aa57e1

on November 03, 2011
at 02:52 PM

Ive used it in "work" situations where I have to be awake for a few days and focussed. It does its job vey well. You feel as though you could go to sleep if you wanted to but you just dont need to. In my experience it was side effect free.

1
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:10 PM

Provigil, haven't used it, but would give it a try for certain scenarios where you need to stay awake. Say, the zombie apocalypse. :)

In terms of him promoting it, a quick scan of the site really gives me the Tim Ferris feel. Pretty sure he's not getting kickbacks on it or anything, so essentially passing on what works for him. That's the spiel and the way he's portraying things. Do you expect him to hide it?

In re. using things like Provigil, I see it mostly as a philisophical debate. Obviously not Paleo, but more of a Paleo plus. Benefits of Paleo plus the latest scientific info to get the best out of your body and life and give you that edge. Stick with strict Paleo vs use latest info to tweak Paleo.

If you think about it, you probably already go the Paleo Plus route. Look at Aspirin. This is a good example of Western medicine and the scientific method/chemistry provides. Chew on a few willow branches for your headache with Grok, or take a pill with a larger/more useful amount of the active ingredient.

Riskwise, have you read the adverse effects on Aspirin, Acetamenophin, and Ibuprofen? A lot of what's documented are one and two offs that they have to disclose. Have you seen how many people die a year because of them? A lot, but then there's hundreds of millions taking it. How about alcohol? Ask Amy Winehouse that worked out for her, yet hundreds of millions drink and live just fine. So there's a risk there with anything, but minimal for the short term as long as you don't go totally idiotic and ignore symptoms or overdose on it.

1
Medium avatar

on November 03, 2011
at 05:55 PM

There's no pharmaceutical that I would take unless I was certain that not taking it would lead to serious injury/suffering of some sort, death etc. Manually overriding our delicate biochemistry generally has unintended consequences of one sort or another.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:52 PM

Nah, I never ingest any stimulants. They mess with your baseline. I'd rather feel good 99% of the time than feel amazing for a little while and then terrible until I take another dose. I feel like these things could damage the brain. I overclock my CPUs, but I don't act like the life is unchanged.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:12 PM

Same here- I've had a total of half a cup of coffee in my life. But sometimes I wonder if my paradigm is off-- heightened temporary mental states may be worthwhile, especially since the world could end any time a supervolcano decides to explode.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 03, 2011
at 09:53 PM

I suppose, but unless it was right before some impending doom, I doubt there'd be a net benefit. I kind of like keeping my adenosine levels and receptors as normal as possible.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Coffee? It's almost a pharmaceutical.

1
5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on November 03, 2011
at 01:40 PM

I took it in college. I wouldn't recommend it. Here's why:

  1. They don't know exactly how it works (this may have changed now but used to be the case).
  2. Plays with brain chemistry.
  3. Removes the desire and (immediate need for sleep), along with any of sleep's benefits. I was able to get by on very very little sleep during finals at one point in time and didn't feel quite right for a long time after.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:12 PM

I agree with this. But sometimes life interferes, and I think it's better to have it in your toolkit than not. i.e. use it as a tool and not a crutch. Of course, that can be hard to tell sometimes (we humans do tend to delude ourselves a lot. :) ).

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Yoicks, add on the doctor's visit for the prescription and that adds up fast. Must be nice being a rich silicon valley exec...

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on November 03, 2011
at 05:51 PM

Rethinking this, let me add that it can be very useful in certain situations. However, they are situations you should probably try to avoid if they cause you to "need" modinafil to get through them.

5b69a02dadcae753771921d913909215

(1457)

on November 03, 2011
at 06:49 PM

True. I used it after college for a few years to stay awake in meetings at work. But now that I can stay awake I have stopped. BTW last time I checked it was like $5/pill or something.

0
Medium avatar

on November 03, 2011
at 04:48 PM

I too have tried it, found it to be very helpful cognitively and did not experience any noticeable side effects.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!