6

votes

Graham Rook /Harris recommendations?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 29, 2012 at 1:37 AM

I know Dr. Harris has been explicitly clear about reserving any possible prescriptions due to the severity of consequences that can result from improper action. But doing research on Graham Rook seems only to be a 'mental masturbation' on the subject--to put it incredibly loosely (though not to disrespect the subject). Does anyone know any possible sources(i.e. links,books.etc) that would help to implement some practical application of this topic? Thanks again for the input!

nance: edit tag only

nance edit#2(copied from below): "For god's sake I DID NOT RECOMMEND M. VACCAE for anyone or anything. In fact, there is no evidence that it does much in humans so far. ??? Kurt G Harris MD"

Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on October 08, 2012
at 10:25 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11899903&dopt=Citation @Harris

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 06, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Rook and yakult and some other food company wants to work on a food product with some kinda "old freinds" in it. It probably wont have the fine details worked out for awhile though. I am not sure theres anything much we can use this research for yet, safely or effectively, which is a shame.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Like earthing??

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:36 AM

But I read it in a blog...doesn't that make it true? ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:35 AM

Especially those with no particular ailment.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 29, 2012
at 10:19 PM

Nothing gross will keep us away from a possible cure.

87f26cf235a0e2420e28779113b0257b

on March 29, 2012
at 08:25 PM

For god's sake I DID NOT RECOMMEND M. VACCAE for anyone or anything. In fact, there is no evidence that it does much in humans so far.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 29, 2012
at 06:22 PM

Mmm! Tapeworms and hookworms. I was still saving my pennies for that fecal transplant. Now what do I do?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 29, 2012
at 05:40 PM

My mom always had a saying 'Evolution in action...'

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:13 PM

I don't think there's really any practical way to apply it yet. It sounds promising, but this could also be another red herring, so I think we should keep our expectations in check. Anyone who goes forward does so at their own peril.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:10 PM

I think this is mediated by the fact that actually going through treatment is difficult and expensive. If someone does it on their own? Seems to me that's natural selection at work.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:26 PM

but you can read it free on the internet I think: http://www.springerlink.com/content/978-3-7643-8902-4#section=641978&page=1

4815ce60a36f08fb6878bb458c249034

(240)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:10 PM

NambyPamby - Maybe this $200 book? The Hygiene Hypothesis and Darwinian Medicine

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 29, 2012
at 10:25 AM

I think that's why Dr. Harris was so reluctant to go into details on the previous threads, and repeatedly said it could be dangerous.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 29, 2012
at 06:24 AM

Based on comments at the Perfect Health Diet site I'd have to say I agree!

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 29, 2012
at 05:16 AM

I have to say, there are enough Paleo desperadoes willing to try fecal transplant in a jiffy, if they knew how.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:34 AM

Whoa, $3900 or $7800 for treatment AND a vacation to Tijuana?! Yikes.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 29, 2012
at 03:15 AM

Where is the "symposium paper" that Rook either wrote or edited, according to Dr. H? Has anyone found that yet?

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:34 AM

It seems like the only real "cure" is to have been exposed to the little critters as infants. I was put up for adoption and spent the first 4 months of my life in a clinical/institutional setting, so I'm sure I missed out on all sorts of good stuff. Fortunately, I don't have any acute sensitivities that manifest as illness. I limit my sensitivity to carbs by band-aidishly avoiding starch and limiting carbs to around 150 grams per day.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:10 AM

@Alex, the same is true of probiotics but I don't mind because blueberry water kefir and home-made Bulgarian yogurt are delicious. We can't really say that for our "old friends" though. :-))

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:06 AM

I admit I chuckled when I read this on the helminthic therapy site: "Therapy must continue for the lifetime of the patient, or the lifetime of the disease as this is remission, not cure."

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8 Answers

7
68f2734a5078a7106f560a7079df45fd

on March 29, 2012
at 04:48 AM

There are no pratical or specific applications yet.

Rook's hypothesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841838/

Very short summary: http://www.lucastafur.com/2011/09/old-friends-hypothesis.html

6
Cd717290eb43a6e17061f9920deed977

on March 29, 2012
at 06:47 PM

This stuff is interesting but...I have autoimmune issues, yet I was raised as a "dirty hippie" on a commune with farm animals that were my friends. Sometimes drank from local streams. There is no question I've been exposed to LOTS of microscopic critters.

Actually, I felt better after I got rid of one parasite I definitely had (h. pylori).

So, possibly one part of the puzzle, but I'm finding it hard to believe that it is the magic bullet explanation for the exploding levels of autoimmune issues people have.

4
Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:50 AM

Thought you'd all get a kick out of this: there was a House episode that dealt with a patient who ended up with a diagnosis of crohn's. This is the excerpt for the final diagnosis: 'They reason that the patient's body went to hell hours after the worms were gone because the worms were helping him. They diagnose extra-intestinal Crohn's. The patient lived in a super-clean environment as a kid. It's the hygiene - why there's so much autoimmune disease in developed places and almost none in developing places. The worms were keeping the Crohn's in check and "teaching his immune system what it should've learned eating dirt growing up", but once they were gone, the Crohn's started to run rampant. The team starts the patient on methylprednisolone and helminths."

Enjoy!

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 29, 2012
at 05:07 AM

I don't mean to be disrespectful, certainly that isn't what I'm feeling, but part of me can't help but feel that mentioning this sort of thing on this site is sure fire way to get some human test subjects. Considering the portion of the PaleoPopulace who end up jumping on any sort of fad...this sort of thing could get quite ugly.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 29, 2012
at 10:25 AM

I think that's why Dr. Harris was so reluctant to go into details on the previous threads, and repeatedly said it could be dangerous.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 29, 2012
at 06:24 AM

Based on comments at the Perfect Health Diet site I'd have to say I agree!

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:10 PM

I think this is mediated by the fact that actually going through treatment is difficult and expensive. If someone does it on their own? Seems to me that's natural selection at work.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 29, 2012
at 05:16 AM

I have to say, there are enough Paleo desperadoes willing to try fecal transplant in a jiffy, if they knew how.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 29, 2012
at 05:40 PM

My mom always had a saying 'Evolution in action...'

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:35 AM

Especially those with no particular ailment.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 29, 2012
at 10:19 PM

Nothing gross will keep us away from a possible cure.

1
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I found this which doesn't give much in the way of practical advice, but is a nice summary for any among us (me...) who can't wade through a journal article.

1
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:03 AM

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:06 AM

I admit I chuckled when I read this on the helminthic therapy site: "Therapy must continue for the lifetime of the patient, or the lifetime of the disease as this is remission, not cure."

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:10 AM

@Alex, the same is true of probiotics but I don't mind because blueberry water kefir and home-made Bulgarian yogurt are delicious. We can't really say that for our "old friends" though. :-))

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 29, 2012
at 04:34 AM

Whoa, $3900 or $7800 for treatment AND a vacation to Tijuana?! Yikes.

7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 29, 2012
at 02:34 AM

It seems like the only real "cure" is to have been exposed to the little critters as infants. I was put up for adoption and spent the first 4 months of my life in a clinical/institutional setting, so I'm sure I missed out on all sorts of good stuff. Fortunately, I don't have any acute sensitivities that manifest as illness. I limit my sensitivity to carbs by band-aidishly avoiding starch and limiting carbs to around 150 grams per day.

0
E69cdc23a8d09c3bc46a16695276f42b

(123)

on April 09, 2012
at 04:55 PM

I've been quite interested in the fecal transplant thing, since I've heard of it awhile ago. I believe Paul Jaminet does mention it briefly in the PHD book, in regards to obese people obtaining gut flora from healthy, slim people.

However I think the problem is that there are not that many actually healthy people around these days, especially in America. At least, I don't know any! No kidding, can't think of one person who's poop I'd trust to be healthy...LOL ;-)

I have also heard of parasitic worms therapy for MS, which interests me because I have MS. However, I also have lots of unpleasant digestive issues that prevent me from eating an optimal diet--bloating in my colon after eating anything starchy (probly the fiber), and possibly fructose malabsorbtion (still testing this one out). So for now I've narrowed my carb sources down to...rice syrup. :-/ I was going to get the Metametrix GI Panel stool test, but I keep going back and forth. What would I do if I DO find something that's not supposed to be there?!? Antibiotics?? Could whatever bug thats in there be helping my MS symptoms, but causing me digestive problems at the same time? Arrgh!! :-S

0
Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on March 29, 2012
at 06:35 PM

Could always resort to Harris' #2 recommendation of MV(mycobacterium vaccae), which is easy enough to obtain: just play around in the dirt and maybe catch a whiff of that earthy magic (http://www.good.is/post/breathing-soil-bacteria-makes-you-smarter/)

87f26cf235a0e2420e28779113b0257b

on March 29, 2012
at 08:25 PM

For god's sake I DID NOT RECOMMEND M. VACCAE for anyone or anything. In fact, there is no evidence that it does much in humans so far.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:36 AM

But I read it in a blog...doesn't that make it true? ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 30, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Like earthing??

Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on October 08, 2012
at 10:25 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11899903&dopt=Citation @Harris

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