15

votes

What do you think about Dr. Kruse's Thermogenesis Protocol?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created February 18, 2012 at 4:24 AM

http://jackkruse.com/the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/

I first saw this concept mentioned by Tim Ferris. It sounds interesting, but won't it make you sick? Usually to much exposure to cold temperature makes my nose freeze up, and when it warms up again, I have a runny nose.

I watched the TED video at the bottom, and am working through the novel length blog post.

7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:10 PM

I agree that humans are crafty and exploit environments in novel ways, thanks to our brains. Physical adaptations to cold also occur in those residing in polar regions long term. Still many unanswered questions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17286254

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on April 02, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Are these hormones made in the fat cells? I remember leptin is? Also are you Eve who normally has blond hair?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:59 PM

Melissa, I don't think The Quilt really cares.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:59 PM

"Attitude to me is more important than facts." - The Quilt.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 08:49 PM

BTW my favorite buckwheat pudding recipt? Learned from a real sherpa. They have been eating this food for thousands of years.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 08:47 PM

since you are such a poor writer, it is fairly hard to get a comprehensive "Quilt" narrative of evolution, but considering you are throwing around concepts like that the ancestral mammal of humans hibernated and we are somehow still adapted to that and we have to "reactivate" it, it's pretty clear that it's not a narrative that fits in with real evidence about human evolution. Also, maybe you should stop talking about Sherpas, since they eat a diet that contradicts yours.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:43 PM

Trying to work out what Quilt thinks is no simple task.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:42 PM

Trying to work out what Quilt thinks is not an easy task.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:22 PM

so you know what I think now? Wrong.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on March 20, 2012
at 06:41 PM

I just wish Dr. Quilt would employ an editor. When I try to read his blog, I feel suddenly like I'm a Branch Davidian listening to the rants of David Koresh.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on March 20, 2012
at 06:39 PM

I just wish Dr. Kruse would employ an editor. When I try to read his blog, I feel like a Branch Davidian listening to the rantings of David Koresh. For more Paleo hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/98466/what-do-you-think-about-dr-kruses-thermogenesis-protocol#ixzz1pgSRsArj

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on March 20, 2012
at 06:39 PM

I just wish Dr. Kruse would employ and editor. When I try to read his blog, I feel like a Branch Davidian listening to the rantings of David Koresh.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on March 20, 2012
at 05:17 PM

The resort I just spent a week at had a cold plunge -- 15 degrees C or approx 60 F. I definitely ate more than usual on vaca (not binge/pig out, but more) and alcohol. Hubby says I looked like I lost weight. I am happy to hold the line. I'm convinced the several short plunges a day and time spent on the pool floaty did burn some calories. Due to an ankle injury/issue, I didn't walk around as much as I usually do and still I came out ahead/even. The cold for weight loss is sound to a point. But the rest of the stuff about adaptation and such is pure fiction.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 05:10 PM

He essentially thinks of homo sapiens as being shaped mainly by the last glacial maximum, as being Northern arctic-adapted carnivorous hominins (nora gedgaudas has the same fairytale). That's clearly nonsense to those of us who study the evolution of homo sapiens. It's rather Euro-centric as well. But homimins have been dealing with cold for quite some time. Even nights in Africa can be quite chilly. Ancient hominins had to be able to adapt to a wide range of temperatures.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 20, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Seems our "keen evolutionary thinkers" are being blinded. Pretty sure I know why but I won't publicly speculate. I dearly hope it is just temporary because as it stands right now they are failing this community enormously.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 17, 2012
at 03:16 PM

some scientists are wrong, some scientists are mad, but not all mad scientists are wrong

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 08:18 AM

Cold didn't make my parents ever get sick when they were young, living in rural Northern China. Nowadays a little eency weency cold makes everyone get mono and the flu cuz their diet consists of nothing but processed wheat/cereal grains, crisco and hfcs. immune system is wrecked

Medium avatar

(19479)

on February 20, 2012
at 07:15 PM

Humans adapted to cold by wearing the winter coats of animals that are adapted to the cold. We used our brains, our defining adaptation, to occupy a wide range of climates.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:51 PM

This may be a gross oversimplification, but could it be that n-3 fatty acids are essentially the body's version of antifreeze? Eat cold water fish and cold climate ruminants, and voila, you can live more comfortably in the same environment.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:39 PM

The warm drink think makes sense to me, especially if you live without much heating in your home, work hard outside all day, and don't want to lose your fat stores. Okay, thought experiment time. I'm a big ol' fan of TCM, but I wonder if TCM as we know it in the West was perfected to mitigate the damage and improve health in an agrarian setting?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:30 PM

I think he is referring to ice water. Absolutely related to the question, N=1 in progress. Shrinking and/or destroying fat cells releases everything that was in that cell into the body, including estrogen. Keep us posted Jonathan.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Try removing cold from your diet and see if your digestion improves. Easiest thing the world to try and 3000 years of Chinese medicine will support your decision to try it. They'd actually prefer that you only drink liquid body temperature and above but I'm a bit of softy and am not an oriental medicine doc so I allow room temperature beverages into my body.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:00 PM

@Primallykosher yeah, it doesn't seem like a big deal at first glance. Most people already have a low core temp. Throw a bolus of cold on top that and you're stressing the core temp even more often. There is very little research out there that I can find on the bodies ability to warm cold food so I've got to go with physiological plausible mechanisms and n=1 stories.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 20, 2012
at 05:29 PM

What water? What estrogen and is this related to this question?

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 20, 2012
at 05:28 PM

I would think the food would warm up in the stomach anyway.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:52 AM

interesting...I find myself greatly affected by spending too much time indoors with carefully controlled climates. I stay out of fake heating and cooling as much as possible, and so have developed quite a tolerance and love for the daily temp fluctuations.

9bd33dab06ad6696b1b6a06aed818f05

(659)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:34 AM

He does not speak in riddles, only leaves a path for you to decipher at a later point. At least that's my theory anyway haha

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:23 AM

Cooling your digestive track shouldn't be a weight loss strategy. Not because it doesn't cause weight loss but because it interfere with digestion both be moving enzymes outside of their optimal temperature range and by causing vasoconstriction in the GI. In the short term it might not be a bloody huge deal but long term it can wreak havoc on the gut. And what I said was that ice water is more of an American culture idea not that Germans didn't do studies on it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 20, 2012
at 04:14 AM

[citation needed] for the NASA thing

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Im firmly outside it.......and I have an alternate belief than your yours that has a lot of data to support my belief. So much so that I been testing it for a good while now.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:15 AM

you said it was an American thought......it was german. And it works too. You can call BS if you choose but it works. Many studies have confirmed this too. NASA showed that 40 degree water is the ideal water temp for their training for spacewalk weight loss prevention...Nasa actually heat water up in space because of this. The astronauts shred weight in space like mad. So any savings they look for so they do not have to send up more payload on trips requiring long space exposures.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:07 AM

The Riddler (Edward Nigma) is a fictional character, a comic book supervillain published by DC Comics, and an enemy of Batman. In live action, he was portrayed by Jim Carrey in the 1995 film Batman Forever.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:39 AM

Holy bombastic bloviator, batman. Quilt, you are still bat$hit crazy and I love it! That your site and incoherent hocus pocus has caught on so much in the paleo world is sure sign of apocalypse.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Think outside the box quilty. Just because it increases metabolism doesn't mean it's a good thing. I didn't say it doesn't increase metabolism. What I was saying is that it is a stupid way to increase metabolism. Stressing the gut so the body freaks out so that it can digest doesn't sound like a good idea to me and a lot of traditional medicine agrees with that diagnosis. Reams of n=1 also confirm this.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:28 AM

Makes me wonder at the research done on hypothermia.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

GERMAN......not american

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

Lead authors Michael Boschmann and Jochen Steiniger, along with their colleagues, published their findings in the "Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism" in December 2003 and August 2007. During the 2003 study, they evaluated the effect of drinking 500 ml, or about 2 cups, of water on metabolism in 14 healthy participants of normal weight. Drinking this amount of water increased the metabolic rate by 30 percent in both men and women, as determined by microdialysis. The effect occurred within 10 minutes and reached its maximum within 30 to 40 minutes. The effect lasted over an hour.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes work in a very narrow temperature range so if you throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract to use energy heating food rather than digesting it. – Not a Doctor 4 hours ago

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 10:17 PM

I thought they were the same person?

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 19, 2012
at 10:04 PM

The quilt wrote Sherlock Holmes obviously.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 19, 2012
at 10:04 PM

So tabata icing than? Or interval icing?

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 19, 2012
at 09:33 PM

That is a good point. Thaks for pointing it out.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 19, 2012
at 09:33 PM

That is a good point. Thakns for pointing it out.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 19, 2012
at 08:55 PM

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth in my view." That's Sherlock Holmes BTW, not the Quilt.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 19, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes work in a very narrow temperature range so if you throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract to use energy heating food rather than digesting it.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 19, 2012
at 08:42 PM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes working in a very narrow temperature range so that if your throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract use energy heating food rather than digesting it.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 19, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Quilt, why do you talk in riddles? It's not helpful.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 19, 2012
at 04:54 PM

I have been playing around with ice packs. I put the one on problem areas like the stubborn fat around my naval (not an orange) and love handles, used for loving. I also put the pack on my neck which has the most cooling effect, since it makes my whole torso shiver. I only do it about 5 minutes per site though. But the neck one works like coffee does, just much more effective for me.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 04:45 PM

Quilt, I can find no information on nose pain in response to cold and fatty acid membrane composition. If you have the information why not share it? If you do not it just makes you sound like you are making it up.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:34 PM

See its in my reality......it needs to be added to your own. Until you become consciously aware of that limitation......you cant enjoy that new reality. Look for Chris Ramsden work......consider it a boost.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:32 PM

I think I had you mind with what I wrote today honestly.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:31 PM

you can find it if you look

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:03 PM

Quilt, citation required.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 01:55 PM

Quilt, is that another fact that you have made up?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Quilt, is that yet another fact that you have invented?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:58 PM

Or...it....may......seem......crazy.......because....it...is....... :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:57 PM

Or...it....may......seem......crazy.......because....it...is.......

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Or...it....may......seem...like...insanity.......because....it...is........

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Or...it....may......seem...like...insanity.......because....it...is..........insanity........................

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:30 PM

Or...it..just.....be...insanity.......

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 10:33 AM

yes............

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 19, 2012
at 06:48 AM

So, is the turnover time for nose fat expedited by sticking with the face in ice water and eating the right fats? My nose doesn't hurt after being in the ice water oddly enough, but gets kinda achy cold if the house is chilly and I'm not moving around for a few hours. Two different things?

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 19, 2012
at 05:47 AM

I don't think we would have spread around the entire planet were our genes not able to express adaption to the cold. I think it helped that megafauna were likewise adapted to the colder temps, giving us a nutrient rich food source. Cold streams could act as preserving agents to keep meat long after the kill (as Robb Wolf did in *I, Caveman*). I can say I'm ready to be a believer, but I can't wait until I see where this is going!

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 19, 2012
at 04:15 AM

Yup, and it is an "old wives" remedy to eat butter for nose bleeds. Damn old people are smart.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:14 AM

If your nose hurts its because your cell membranes are filled with the wrong of fats......because cold protects from that. And that should be a big clue to why you may be suboptimal.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:56 AM

Happy, I already run hotter than everyone around and was already begging to turn down the heat. We are a society of wusses when it comes to artificial heat and light.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Doubt.......I will show you why I use your doubt as my currency for change. It may seem like insanity until you understand why.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Dear lord, what is it with the ellipsis abuse? Is it a side effect of sitting in ice water?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Interesting point, I'm curious to see how the body is able to play catch up after years of meticulous climate control and food court cuisine. One side effect that has been mentioned so far is quick mobilization of estrogen and environmental contaminants from fat cells. Transient I'm sure, but could be a rough ride in the interim. I'm starting to wonder how much of childhood obesity could be related to indoor activities that are easier to supervise vs. playing outside, not exclusively from the decreased activity level and increased HFCS intake, but from avoiding the elements in general.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Gaaaahhhh...you are SUCH A TEASE...

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Simon after seeing your post.......you my friend are ripe for dogma change. Factor X is going to catch you big time. But you will love where I am taking your mind.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:00 PM

Marie......I think you will be very interested in my opening talk at Paleo Fx then.......because of what you just posted here.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:58 PM

I understood.......but where I am headed......is not where you think. This was 35 yrs of thinking......doing the first directed evolutionary experiment. the results.......well you'll see.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Cracks me up that jumping in the snow is the less hardcore option. Makes sense in a thermodynamic sense, but on a gut level snow just looks colder.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:25 PM

@Warren, I've been reading about mucus production lately and how compromised a lot of people are in their ability to produce the ideal texture and quantity by crappy diet. I'd want to know exactly what the people in the study were eating and drinking before jumping to any conclusions. I'm guessing the ketogenic diet with a focus on balancing n-3 in the weeks leading up to this adaptation makes a big difference. Someone who eats Cheerios and nonfat milk for breakfast is indeed going to have a very different experience than someone who ate a fatty chunk of meat with a side of krill oil.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:48 PM

I've been reading his blog with great scepticism for some time...however, each "patch" of the quilt he adds explains more, and more, why my 72 y/o mother has a 6 pack and I do not. Yes, Mom swims in cold water 3x a week for an hour and has done for the last 35 years. There is a fine line between genius and insanity and only time will tell upon which side Dr. K walks...

001131d06b09ebd81de5ed675b3b9623

(0)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:42 PM

Simon primal... Dr kruse has been referring to fat loss from cold thermo as "low hanging fruit". In other words, and excuse the pun, it is the "tip of the iceberg"!

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:40 PM

Just wondering if Cholesterol usage at the cellular level is a piece of this cold water puzzle?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:16 PM

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth in my view." Certainly an interesting approach to take...

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 18, 2012
at 05:54 PM

@ Warren D...Yet all of a local population may experience the same cold and only some succumb to this phenomena of sinus infections. Interesting hypothesis by that site, but I find that other factors are far more important.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 18, 2012
at 05:53 PM

Yet all of a local population may experience the same cold and only some succumb to this phenomena of sinus infections. Interesting hypothesis by that site, but I find that other factors are far more important.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 18, 2012
at 05:12 PM

This is hardcore indeed. I think exercising might be easier. Although it might have some strong promise for stubborn fat.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 18, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Dr K, I'm looking forward to it. But I'm not sure you understood my caveat. It's not that I disagree with the premise, I just wonder whether attempts to achieve the same conditions (better living through chemistry?) artificially may have their own side effects. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, but I doubt that popping thousands of IUs of vitamin D is the same as getting it via the sun (or that we're meant to have artificially high levels of it all year). Similarly, is it possible that ice baths solve one problem but create another? Hopefully not, but hard to tell just yet, eh?

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 18, 2012
at 02:57 PM

I got a strong mad scientist vibe from this article. At the same time it makes Michael Phillips 10,000 calories a day while training make sense. Perhaps just swimming for extended periods of time will cause you to burn much more calories than usual. Even in a heated pool.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 02:45 PM

There is a reason my protocol is steeper......my goals are quite different than the purpose of this blog and I said it in there. Why? that is coming soon enough.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 18, 2012
at 02:37 PM

I sorry to hear you were killed Stabby and made into a fur bra.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 18, 2012
at 02:21 PM

"In cold, the nose works overtime to try to warm the air going to your lungs. In a short time the nasal cilia are just worn out and fail to remove bacteria from the nose. If your nasal cilia are dry, they can't move the bacteria away. Then the bacteria remain in the nose and sinuses and you end up with a sinus infection" Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3553127

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:36 AM

"One thought might just alter your DNA!"

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:27 AM

Poit! Poit! (The sound nipples make in an ice bath. Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:24 AM

Here in finland its common to jump to snow after a hot sauna. Or if you are brave to ice cold lake... All the thermogenesis you might want :) Then back to sauna.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on February 18, 2012
at 06:53 AM

I fully support hard nipples.

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13 Answers

14
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 19, 2012
at 08:09 PM

That protocol is idiotic. Most of the positive results that are obtain from cold hydrotherapy come from a secondary, not a primary response. Cold exposures should be short (usually 30 seconds) and then your body responds by trying warm the area. Your body at first is willing to put up a fight against the cold and then after a little while it decides, f#&! it, I'm just going to shut down. I know that from a naturopathic perspective, they try to utilize the fight and not get to the "f#&! it" stage. Contrast hydrotherapy where you do 3 minutes hot and 30 seconds cold repeated 3 times is a much better way to leverage the effects of cold. From a Chinese medical perspective you need to be bat $h!* crazy to expose yourself to cold for that much time. The only time according to TCM that could be okay is if your the crazy passionate type (dominant fire -- rapid pulse, hot most the time, etc) and even then it'd be considered a heroic method that will likely produces ill effect. They'd consider it unartful medicine at best.

Primary Effects of Cold:

  • Vasoconstriction
  • Slowing of circulation, leukocyte migration and metabolism in tissues
  • Decreased edema and bleeding
  • Decreased nerve conduction
  • Analgesic effect
  • Down regulation of most metabolic activity
  • The longer the cold the more intense the primary effects
  • Shorter cold more effective secondary response Strongest medicinal effect of cold water applications

Secondary effects of cold:

  • Vasodilation
  • Increased metabolism
  • Increased RBC and WBC
  • Strengthening of the whole system
  • Stimulating

Primary effects are direct or intrinsic results of application of cold

Secondary effects are the bodies reaction to the application of cold

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Try removing cold from your diet and see if your digestion improves. Easiest thing the world to try and 3000 years of Chinese medicine will support your decision to try it. They'd actually prefer that you only drink liquid body temperature and above but I'm a bit of softy and am not an oriental medicine doc so I allow room temperature beverages into my body.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes work in a very narrow temperature range so if you throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract to use energy heating food rather than digesting it. – Not a Doctor 4 hours ago

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 20, 2012
at 04:14 AM

[citation needed] for the NASA thing

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:15 AM

you said it was an American thought......it was german. And it works too. You can call BS if you choose but it works. Many studies have confirmed this too. NASA showed that 40 degree water is the ideal water temp for their training for spacewalk weight loss prevention...Nasa actually heat water up in space because of this. The astronauts shred weight in space like mad. So any savings they look for so they do not have to send up more payload on trips requiring long space exposures.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 20, 2012
at 05:28 PM

I would think the food would warm up in the stomach anyway.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:39 PM

The warm drink think makes sense to me, especially if you live without much heating in your home, work hard outside all day, and don't want to lose your fat stores. Okay, thought experiment time. I'm a big ol' fan of TCM, but I wonder if TCM as we know it in the West was perfected to mitigate the damage and improve health in an agrarian setting?

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:28 AM

Makes me wonder at the research done on hypothermia.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

GERMAN......not american

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Im firmly outside it.......and I have an alternate belief than your yours that has a lot of data to support my belief. So much so that I been testing it for a good while now.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 19, 2012
at 10:04 PM

So tabata icing than? Or interval icing?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 20, 2012
at 01:34 AM

Lead authors Michael Boschmann and Jochen Steiniger, along with their colleagues, published their findings in the "Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism" in December 2003 and August 2007. During the 2003 study, they evaluated the effect of drinking 500 ml, or about 2 cups, of water on metabolism in 14 healthy participants of normal weight. Drinking this amount of water increased the metabolic rate by 30 percent in both men and women, as determined by microdialysis. The effect occurred within 10 minutes and reached its maximum within 30 to 40 minutes. The effect lasted over an hour.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Think outside the box quilty. Just because it increases metabolism doesn't mean it's a good thing. I didn't say it doesn't increase metabolism. What I was saying is that it is a stupid way to increase metabolism. Stressing the gut so the body freaks out so that it can digest doesn't sound like a good idea to me and a lot of traditional medicine agrees with that diagnosis. Reams of n=1 also confirm this.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:23 AM

Cooling your digestive track shouldn't be a weight loss strategy. Not because it doesn't cause weight loss but because it interfere with digestion both be moving enzymes outside of their optimal temperature range and by causing vasoconstriction in the GI. In the short term it might not be a bloody huge deal but long term it can wreak havoc on the gut. And what I said was that ice water is more of an American culture idea not that Germans didn't do studies on it.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:00 PM

@Primallykosher yeah, it doesn't seem like a big deal at first glance. Most people already have a low core temp. Throw a bolus of cold on top that and you're stressing the core temp even more often. There is very little research out there that I can find on the bodies ability to warm cold food so I've got to go with physiological plausible mechanisms and n=1 stories.

14
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:22 AM

I've been following the blog and the comments with interest, and it does offer some insight into the footage of Tibetan monks I saw years ago tolerating really cold temperatures with very little clothing or a wet sheet and even being to manipulate their body temps at will.

I did a test run today: ketogenic fatty meal, steak with butter and coffee with coconut oil and cream for breakfast, check. Drinking cold water first, check. Face in a sink of ice water, check. I did four short face immersions about 30 seconds each. Better than coffee! OMG! It managed to obliterate the PMS moody cloud that had been hanging over me for a few days too, I'm chalking that up to a momentary switchover from whatever hormones were creating that "woe is me" feeling to survival stress hormones. I thought I was going to have to go way deeper into this before getting that kind of hormetic stressor effect.

I've done cold water experiments before to increase pain tolerance as part of a childbirth hypnosis course, but it was just with my hands and arms. That was a daily practice for a few months. I don't remember whether I ended up with less fat on my hands and arms, but then again I was pregnant and gaining weight everywhere weekly, not a "swallowed a basketball" lady, all of me gets fat when I'm pregnant.

This thermogenesis protocol opens a whole can of worms about seasonal living and eating. Did we screw ourselves out of the ability to live somewhat comfortably without central heat by inventing margarine and Crisco, since it would seem that having high n-6 levels makes the experiment much more difficult or even impossible? My grandmother used to tell me stories about waking up with frost on her blankets in the morning when she was little, and being more fascinated than bothered by it. If the house gets below 55 degrees F. at night I have trouble sleeping because my nose gets too cold. Something has changed to become so wussy in just 3 generations.

I've been pretty sure that getting cold doesn't give you a cold since I was a kid so I'm not worried about that aspect of it. I get a runny nose with any quick temperature change hot to cold or cold to hot, and I think that is often confused with "catching a cold" after being outside. I used to run around for a good part of the winter without a coat, and would splash my hands in little streams and fountains that were nearly frozen with no ill effect. So I did have some cold tolerance built up at one point in my life, but it is mostly gone now. Babies are born with a lot of brown fat, so maybe I just had some of my brown fat stores left over when I was an older kid, or never lost them because my teachers weren't fast enough to catch me with my coat.

I do have several worries about this though. One is now that I have excitedly shared this info with my husband, I'm going to have to have to lobby even harder to turn the heat up in the house when I'm cold because he'll insist he's trying to help me in my quest to improve my health. Secondly, I worry that someone's vanity will get the best of them and they won't approach the protocol in a slow and methodical way causing some serious frostbite or inducing a heart attack in spite of the all the warnings about monitoring skin color and working with a physician in regards to cardiac health.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 18, 2012
at 02:21 PM

"In cold, the nose works overtime to try to warm the air going to your lungs. In a short time the nasal cilia are just worn out and fail to remove bacteria from the nose. If your nasal cilia are dry, they can't move the bacteria away. Then the bacteria remain in the nose and sinuses and you end up with a sinus infection" Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3553127

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 19, 2012
at 04:15 AM

Yup, and it is an "old wives" remedy to eat butter for nose bleeds. Damn old people are smart.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Quilt, is that yet another fact that you have invented?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:34 PM

See its in my reality......it needs to be added to your own. Until you become consciously aware of that limitation......you cant enjoy that new reality. Look for Chris Ramsden work......consider it a boost.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:25 PM

@Warren, I've been reading about mucus production lately and how compromised a lot of people are in their ability to produce the ideal texture and quantity by crappy diet. I'd want to know exactly what the people in the study were eating and drinking before jumping to any conclusions. I'm guessing the ketogenic diet with a focus on balancing n-3 in the weeks leading up to this adaptation makes a big difference. Someone who eats Cheerios and nonfat milk for breakfast is indeed going to have a very different experience than someone who ate a fatty chunk of meat with a side of krill oil.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 18, 2012
at 05:53 PM

Yet all of a local population may experience the same cold and only some succumb to this phenomena of sinus infections. Interesting hypothesis by that site, but I find that other factors are far more important.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:31 PM

you can find it if you look

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:56 AM

Happy, I already run hotter than everyone around and was already begging to turn down the heat. We are a society of wusses when it comes to artificial heat and light.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 10:33 AM

yes............

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:14 AM

If your nose hurts its because your cell membranes are filled with the wrong of fats......because cold protects from that. And that should be a big clue to why you may be suboptimal.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 01:55 PM

Quilt, is that another fact that you have made up?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:51 PM

This may be a gross oversimplification, but could it be that n-3 fatty acids are essentially the body's version of antifreeze? Eat cold water fish and cold climate ruminants, and voila, you can live more comfortably in the same environment.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:03 PM

Quilt, citation required.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 18, 2012
at 05:54 PM

@ Warren D...Yet all of a local population may experience the same cold and only some succumb to this phenomena of sinus infections. Interesting hypothesis by that site, but I find that other factors are far more important.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 19, 2012
at 06:48 AM

So, is the turnover time for nose fat expedited by sticking with the face in ice water and eating the right fats? My nose doesn't hurt after being in the ice water oddly enough, but gets kinda achy cold if the house is chilly and I'm not moving around for a few hours. Two different things?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 03:32 PM

I think I had you mind with what I wrote today honestly.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 04:45 PM

Quilt, I can find no information on nose pain in response to cold and fatty acid membrane composition. If you have the information why not share it? If you do not it just makes you sound like you are making it up.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 08:18 AM

Cold didn't make my parents ever get sick when they were young, living in rural Northern China. Nowadays a little eency weency cold makes everyone get mono and the flu cuz their diet consists of nothing but processed wheat/cereal grains, crisco and hfcs. immune system is wrecked

7
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 02:49 PM

Beth.......consider this mental juxtaposition. What if you're dead wrong and our biochemistry is best adapted for cold environments but yet we live in a warm world.......??? What if evolution to a cold thermogenic environment is our primordial condition? What if mother nature plans differ from your thoughts as they exist today? To see a glimpse of why you might be off......consider that all scientists still believe modern day earth is in an ice age.....all be it at the end in the warming cycle that began 11,000 years ago. We know of 11 that have occurred since we evolved. What if I told you that your proteins and enzymes react completely 180 degrees opposite their current actions when you change a few things?

Maybe modern day life is the ultimate biologic mismatch? Yes a thought could change your DNA if you ponder a reality that is not currently in your awareness.

My profession usually does not try to eliminate the impossible because we are trained to be logical and reductive thinkers........but when I am stumped I think about the impossible and the links to the knowns I know........then I deduce and I use connective thoughts........when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth in my view. I think Beth you might be making the same error........a modern day Paleohacker error. I aim to show you why this might be case as I roll it out this year.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 18, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Dr K, I'm looking forward to it. But I'm not sure you understood my caveat. It's not that I disagree with the premise, I just wonder whether attempts to achieve the same conditions (better living through chemistry?) artificially may have their own side effects. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, but I doubt that popping thousands of IUs of vitamin D is the same as getting it via the sun (or that we're meant to have artificially high levels of it all year). Similarly, is it possible that ice baths solve one problem but create another? Hopefully not, but hard to tell just yet, eh?

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:40 PM

Just wondering if Cholesterol usage at the cellular level is a piece of this cold water puzzle?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:58 PM

I understood.......but where I am headed......is not where you think. This was 35 yrs of thinking......doing the first directed evolutionary experiment. the results.......well you'll see.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:16 PM

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth in my view." Certainly an interesting approach to take...

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on February 20, 2012
at 02:39 AM

Holy bombastic bloviator, batman. Quilt, you are still bat$hit crazy and I love it! That your site and incoherent hocus pocus has caught on so much in the paleo world is sure sign of apocalypse.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 19, 2012
at 05:47 AM

I don't think we would have spread around the entire planet were our genes not able to express adaption to the cold. I think it helped that megafauna were likewise adapted to the colder temps, giving us a nutrient rich food source. Cold streams could act as preserving agents to keep meat long after the kill (as Robb Wolf did in *I, Caveman*). I can say I'm ready to be a believer, but I can't wait until I see where this is going!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 19, 2012
at 08:55 PM

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth in my view." That's Sherlock Holmes BTW, not the Quilt.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 19, 2012
at 10:04 PM

The quilt wrote Sherlock Holmes obviously.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 10:17 PM

I thought they were the same person?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Dear lord, what is it with the ellipsis abuse? Is it a side effect of sitting in ice water?

Medium avatar

(19479)

on February 20, 2012
at 07:15 PM

Humans adapted to cold by wearing the winter coats of animals that are adapted to the cold. We used our brains, our defining adaptation, to occupy a wide range of climates.

7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on April 03, 2012
at 02:10 PM

I agree that humans are crafty and exploit environments in novel ways, thanks to our brains. Physical adaptations to cold also occur in those residing in polar regions long term. Still many unanswered questions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17286254

6
24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on March 20, 2012
at 06:42 PM

Another tedious read. Perhaps Jack should consider doing audio/video type presentations instead, because the typos and other errors in these manifestos are difficult to get past. His posts are inordinately long and I say this as a blogger who is not of few words myself but try to be cognizant of that and likely fail many times as well.

I fail to see where this ties in with Leptin, but perhaps I have to read it again.

However the biggest problem is conflating cold adaptation with cold thermogenesis. The latter is an effective means of assisting weight loss as I commented above how cold plunging on my recent vacation definitely offset the higher food and alcohol calorie content. No -- I didn't down a quart of ice water before jumping in. I would stand with my feet on the top ladder step and just go for it and jump in. It almost hurt for a few seconds, I would tread water for as long as I could stand it -- usually I make it about 30 seconds, sometimes shorter, a few times for several minutes. I did this several times a day and would either go back out into the hot air or into the steam room. Going directly to the hot tub required easing in. The thermodynamics/physics are pretty simple here. Relatively smaller mass/volume me at 98.6 degree F hits the relatively larger mass/volume water 60 deg F. Thermal gradient is significant and movement and mass ratios maintain the gradient so heat energy is transferred away from my body to the water in the pool. A few minutes after one gets out, they feel invigorated, flushed and although cold to the touch very shortly you feel like you're emanating heat. This is because your body has ramped up it's thermogenic activities to warm you back up. I doubt highly that even the temperature inside my belly button changed. My body expended calories to generate thermal energy to keep me warm inside and reheat my skin. This is not rocket science.

The cold adaptation he talks about is -- as it sounds -- adapting the individual to a cold environment -- 24/7/365 -- and all that. Even if someone does this protocol for an hour a day, there's 23 other hours where the body is not in a cold environment. Even IF you make a lot of BAT from WAT, unless the BAT is needed to generate heat, it won't. BAT is the thermogenic fat but it doesn't keep going all the time. Whatever differences we see in cold adapted humans living in cold environments cannot be translated to someone living in a warm environment taking some ice baths.

So that's one problem. The rest is a lot of the usual poor application, speculation, interpretation of various studies. Take his claims about fat cell apoptosis (death):

Prolonged and controlled local peripheral skin cooling can induce selective ???damage??? and increased hypothalamic signaling by forcing adipocyte apoptosis and subsequent loss of subcutaneous fat, without damaging the overlying skin or the underlying muscle layers. This means that acute cold cause rapid leptin sensitivity! It means that fat is forced to liberate leptin from fat cells to slowly lower its serum levels as long as the cold stimulus is applied safely. This is new scientific information that was first carried out in pigs in 2008 and subsequently tested in humans and found to be quite effective for fat removal in certain selected areas of the body.

Now here is the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18951424

They subjected the pigs to sub-freezing temperatures (-1, -3, -5 and -7 deg C) applied locally to skin, for relatively short periods of time (10 min) under anesthesia. This apparently killed off some fat cells without damaging the skin. How on earth this applies to his Leptin Reset and ice water baths is beyond me. Unless he's sitting on blocks of dry ice for 10 minutes at a clip, which I suspect would be pretty darned uncomfy fully conscious, and I'm not sure I'd want to chance irregularly killing off some fat cells were it shown to be feasible.

So that sort of thing turns me off to his protocols. Trying to synthesize some "epic" treatise when one is basically not needed to explain why the cold exposure may have contributed to his fat loss. I could go on about other claims made, but it's time wasted. I'm only just amazed that his popularity has soared and he's now on panels and such educating the public. There's some basic stuff underlying this, the rest just comes off as quackery, which it is. And it will undermine the paleo movement whatever that is.

6
Ccde5a8936b400a752c45fb91d427432

on March 20, 2012
at 04:57 PM

I've written to Jack with no reply. He kicked off quite a debate at Paleo FX with the topic. What surprised me, especially with some keen evolutionary thinkers there, no one asked him to speculate on how his discovery counts as an evolutionary survival mechanism. Or is it like an auto backfiring? Are there sources of evidence among extant h/gs living in brutally cold environments? What's next - New Age high colonics with ice water?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 08:49 PM

BTW my favorite buckwheat pudding recipt? Learned from a real sherpa. They have been eating this food for thousands of years.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:59 PM

"Attitude to me is more important than facts." - The Quilt.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:42 PM

Trying to work out what Quilt thinks is not an easy task.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 05:10 PM

He essentially thinks of homo sapiens as being shaped mainly by the last glacial maximum, as being Northern arctic-adapted carnivorous hominins (nora gedgaudas has the same fairytale). That's clearly nonsense to those of us who study the evolution of homo sapiens. It's rather Euro-centric as well. But homimins have been dealing with cold for quite some time. Even nights in Africa can be quite chilly. Ancient hominins had to be able to adapt to a wide range of temperatures.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 20, 2012
at 08:47 PM

since you are such a poor writer, it is fairly hard to get a comprehensive "Quilt" narrative of evolution, but considering you are throwing around concepts like that the ancestral mammal of humans hibernated and we are somehow still adapted to that and we have to "reactivate" it, it's pretty clear that it's not a narrative that fits in with real evidence about human evolution. Also, maybe you should stop talking about Sherpas, since they eat a diet that contradicts yours.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 20, 2012
at 05:09 PM

Seems our "keen evolutionary thinkers" are being blinded. Pretty sure I know why but I won't publicly speculate. I dearly hope it is just temporary because as it stands right now they are failing this community enormously.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:22 PM

so you know what I think now? Wrong.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:43 PM

Trying to work out what Quilt thinks is no simple task.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 20, 2012
at 08:59 PM

Melissa, I don't think The Quilt really cares.

5
05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:12 AM

Kruse seems like the kind of guy who is always saying, "I meant to do that" after every time he comes across as a regular imperfect human.

Being in the cold is useful until it surpasses the body's limits and becomes a stress. Just like exercise.

5
Ac4f773ec277323c391153e10b9c58fe

on February 18, 2012
at 07:24 PM

My question is why, why, why would you want to do this?

Regardless of whether subjecting yourself to extreme cold is effective for fat loss or not, there are more tried, tested (and more importantly) easier and enjoyable ways to do it.

Eat real food, and do fun, enjoyable activities and you will lose weight.

Perhaps sitting in an ice bath will help you lose and extra couple of grams per week, but is it really worth the hassle?

Subjecting yourself to cold water may be worthwhile if you are swimming in a beautiful Norwegian Fjord, but sitting in your bath full of ice seems foolish to me, particularly as your body will more than likely cause you to unconsciously eat more calories to compensate to any increase in metabolism anyway!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Or...it....may......seem...like...insanity.......because....it...is........

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Simon after seeing your post.......you my friend are ripe for dogma change. Factor X is going to catch you big time. But you will love where I am taking your mind.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 19, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Quilt, why do you talk in riddles? It's not helpful.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Gaaaahhhh...you are SUCH A TEASE...

Medium avatar

(4878)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:48 PM

I've been reading his blog with great scepticism for some time...however, each "patch" of the quilt he adds explains more, and more, why my 72 y/o mother has a 6 pack and I do not. Yes, Mom swims in cold water 3x a week for an hour and has done for the last 35 years. There is a fine line between genius and insanity and only time will tell upon which side Dr. K walks...

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Or...it....may......seem...like...insanity.......because....it...is..........insanity........................

9bd33dab06ad6696b1b6a06aed818f05

(659)

on February 20, 2012
at 04:34 AM

He does not speak in riddles, only leaves a path for you to decipher at a later point. At least that's my theory anyway haha

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:58 PM

Or...it....may......seem......crazy.......because....it...is....... :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:57 PM

Or...it....may......seem......crazy.......because....it...is.......

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 19, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Doubt.......I will show you why I use your doubt as my currency for change. It may seem like insanity until you understand why.

001131d06b09ebd81de5ed675b3b9623

(0)

on February 18, 2012
at 07:42 PM

Simon primal... Dr kruse has been referring to fat loss from cold thermo as "low hanging fruit". In other words, and excuse the pun, it is the "tip of the iceberg"!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 19, 2012
at 12:30 PM

Or...it..just.....be...insanity.......

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:00 PM

Marie......I think you will be very interested in my opening talk at Paleo Fx then.......because of what you just posted here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on February 20, 2012
at 03:07 AM

The Riddler (Edward Nigma) is a fictional character, a comic book supervillain published by DC Comics, and an enemy of Batman. In live action, he was portrayed by Jim Carrey in the 1995 film Batman Forever.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on March 20, 2012
at 05:17 PM

The resort I just spent a week at had a cold plunge -- 15 degrees C or approx 60 F. I definitely ate more than usual on vaca (not binge/pig out, but more) and alcohol. Hubby says I looked like I lost weight. I am happy to hold the line. I'm convinced the several short plunges a day and time spent on the pool floaty did burn some calories. Due to an ankle injury/issue, I didn't walk around as much as I usually do and still I came out ahead/even. The cold for weight loss is sound to a point. But the rest of the stuff about adaptation and such is pure fiction.

5
C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on February 18, 2012
at 11:24 AM

This looks easier to do compared to what Kruse proposes: I couldn't paste the link properly but it's The Iceman post at Getting Stronger.

Tring link again http://gettingstronger.org/2012/01/the-iceman/

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 18, 2012
at 02:45 PM

There is a reason my protocol is steeper......my goals are quite different than the purpose of this blog and I said it in there. Why? that is coming soon enough.

4
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 18, 2012
at 12:59 PM

I'm with Happy Now and intrigued by the idea. It seems very plausible to me that what we take for granted as modern convenience -- indoors in AC in summer, indoors in heat in winter -- has side effects (especially cumulatively). That the former results in low vitamin D levels is a given. I'm certainly willing to entertain that there are disadvantages from the latter.

One caveat though: it's not clear to me that short cutting Mother Nature is always a win.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:52 AM

interesting...I find myself greatly affected by spending too much time indoors with carefully controlled climates. I stay out of fake heating and cooling as much as possible, and so have developed quite a tolerance and love for the daily temp fluctuations.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Interesting point, I'm curious to see how the body is able to play catch up after years of meticulous climate control and food court cuisine. One side effect that has been mentioned so far is quick mobilization of estrogen and environmental contaminants from fat cells. Transient I'm sure, but could be a rough ride in the interim. I'm starting to wonder how much of childhood obesity could be related to indoor activities that are easier to supervise vs. playing outside, not exclusively from the decreased activity level and increased HFCS intake, but from avoiding the elements in general.

4
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on February 18, 2012
at 06:01 AM

Sounds like trouble if not done right.

Being in Minnesota as I am, or any other northern midwest or eastern state, stepping outside in the winter in your underwear for a few minutes can surely get the same benefit. Heck, being outside fully clothed for a few minutes longer can get you there, ;), right?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 18, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Cracks me up that jumping in the snow is the less hardcore option. Makes sense in a thermodynamic sense, but on a gut level snow just looks colder.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on February 18, 2012
at 08:24 AM

Here in finland its common to jump to snow after a hot sauna. Or if you are brave to ice cold lake... All the thermogenesis you might want :) Then back to sauna.

3
4fe30ef7346f95a69a0e3e8a09a0b55b

on February 20, 2012
at 02:10 AM

Honestly I just wish i had taken a set of labs the day before I got in the water because it is day 14 and I dont even know who I am anymore. Yeah it is like that. With the exception of being flooded with estrogen from the white adipose tissue ( which I am attempting to manage with aromataze inhibitors ) i have no clue how my serum level have changed and it is all for the better. Sleep is improved, Supplementation went to zero. More available energy. Woot!

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 20, 2012
at 05:29 PM

What water? What estrogen and is this related to this question?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 20, 2012
at 06:30 PM

I think he is referring to ice water. Absolutely related to the question, N=1 in progress. Shrinking and/or destroying fat cells releases everything that was in that cell into the body, including estrogen. Keep us posted Jonathan.

1
Fddbf985647ca4b3c389331a6fab33d4

(90)

on April 02, 2012
at 10:23 AM

about how it is supposed to tie in with leptin: the melanocortine pathway is made up of several peptides that bind to many receptor sites. one of those is melonocyte-stimulating hormone (MRH). all of those are primarily derived from proopiomelanocortine (POMC). POMC secretion is balanced by NPY. leptin stimulates the release of MRH that binds to the melanocortin-4 receptor. leptin also binds to NPY neurons and decreases their activity. Kruse says that the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) that controls circardian rythms and metabolism is governed not only by light but by temperature. in cold temperatures SCN activates the leptin-melanocortin pathway by upregulating POMC and downregulating NPY.... so that is supposed to increase thermogenesis and fatloss....

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on April 02, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Are these hormones made in the fat cells? I remember leptin is? Also are you Eve who normally has blond hair?

1
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 18, 2012
at 05:49 AM

Drinking cold water is easy enough. For the ice and ice cold water on the face and body I get that it might work but it is hard core for sure...

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 19, 2012
at 08:42 PM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes working in a very narrow temperature range so that if your throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract use energy heating food rather than digesting it.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 18, 2012
at 05:12 PM

This is hardcore indeed. I think exercising might be easier. Although it might have some strong promise for stubborn fat.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 19, 2012
at 09:33 PM

That is a good point. Thaks for pointing it out.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 19, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Drinking ice water is a ridiculous idea that is uniquely american. Enzymes work in a very narrow temperature range so if you throw cold fluids on them it headers their ability to perform. This forces the digestive tract to use energy heating food rather than digesting it.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 19, 2012
at 09:33 PM

That is a good point. Thakns for pointing it out.

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