5

votes

Grain free dogs-

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM

My pooch (11 year old dalmation/pit mix) started throwing up very ofter about 2 months ago. I did the bland diet for 3 days- boiled chicken and rice, then weened back to food. He was on science diet... Then it would happen again and I repeated the cycle. Finally i did just the chicken and rice till 2 weeks ago when I tried Dick van Patten's nature's balance. But I ran out and went to the pet store and they only carried Blue Buffalo. I tried the wilderness lamb mix. HE LOVES IT. I still mix in rice and chicken here and there to keep it sort of bland.... but it's finally keeping food down and the consistancy of the "#2's" have gotten better. So Kasper is fully grain free (with the exception of rice here and there). Treats too are limited too BB lamb treats, carrots and other veggies.

Anyone else have issues like this and is this a sudden grain allergy or digestive tract issue because he is a old dog?

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on March 31, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Thanks, Marie. We feed our dog a raw food diet, too. She's incredibly healthy, and has perfect pearly-white teeth that never need cleaning. We'd rather give her real food than pay money on vet bills.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on March 30, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Science Diet is FULL of corn and garbage. I'd throw it up too!

35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on March 30, 2012
at 06:38 PM

Oh, and her teeth are great from all that bone chewing.

226b10cbb6b1d3530b00d2d84a2dc86e

(3313)

on August 17, 2011
at 01:47 PM

A vet that I read about says feed 1g protein per 1 lbs. My BTF is about 25 lbs so I give him about 25 g protein per day. The sardines in water (no salt) have 18 g protein and the egg has 6 g protein. Sardines have more Omega 3 than chicken plus more of the essential vitamins. Plus grass fed chicken is expensive while supermarket chicken is loaded with PUFA's.

41e79168f1df5d656b6c4f3fef8c9b46

(630)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:57 PM

beautiful dog! mine is 11 years old and looks great too! Can't figure out how to upload a photo though!

41e79168f1df5d656b6c4f3fef8c9b46

(630)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:56 PM

I bought sardines this AM and my dog LOVES THEM!!!! me however can't get over the smell (not a fish person) So i'm going to try chicken (boiled) and sardines to see how he likes it. Would that be too much protein??

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:36 PM

While I agree dogs may eat plant material, it is not digested as cellulose requires a lot of time to digest. Ever pick stringers of fresh spring grass out of your dog's ass? Yah, it isn't digested, at all. Believe me, I've done lots of experiments lbs in, lbs out types of experiments to prove to myself that I was not shortchanging my dog's health through excluding veggies. (And the time I spent working at the San Diego Zoo's CRES extracting hormones from poop, means I have MUCH more experience in these matters than most.) And, btw, the raw feeders are moving further from BARF to Prey model.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:27 PM

I started as a BARF feeder and slowly moved to Prey model. The results of carnivorous diet are far superior to BARF, IMHO. And his poops are smaller as there isn't all that extra cellulose/plant material that doesn't get digested anyway.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:24 PM

Prop Widow, did you try feeding 3x a day? Sometimes that cures the bile problems.

Da8e709acde269e8b8bfbc09d1737841

(1906)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:50 PM

Dogs are scavengers and are not carnivores. Dogs will naturally eat ruffage like grass and other vegetation, though the majority of their food intake is meat. There's a reason many BARF advocates mix vegetables into their raw meat patties, and why brands like Primal include a certain percentage of vegetable matter, and it' not just for filler.

9f8111d9ecaa64ea098a0860b47300e0

on August 15, 2011
at 06:28 PM

Sorry but you are wrong! Dogs ARE carnivores! Dogs are not equipped to digest anything that grew with roots. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/ http://www.davemech.org/biography.html

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on August 15, 2011
at 05:04 PM

It's a convenience issue for me at the moment as we're getting ready to move and I haven't had time to read up on how much to feed and what exactly to feed etc. I'll look more into it once we're settled.

Ed983a42344945b1ff70fd9597a23493

on August 15, 2011
at 04:41 PM

I agree with no grains, but dogs are omnivores, not carnivores.

E3c6d84c01a12e2ee1c49e2180d84238

(315)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:31 PM

Sorry. Metronitozol.

E3c6d84c01a12e2ee1c49e2180d84238

(315)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:29 PM

We also feed the BARF diet, plus a bit of Taste of the Wild kibble. My Petey's digestive system was so disabled by the time we got him (at 1 year) at he can't even tolerate raw chicken necks. He also doesn't do well with raw fish. We typically feed ground anything on sale with the kibble. He also gets aloe vera juice when I can remember to put it in his bowl. Two years ago, we also put him on a maintenance dose of metronitolol. We caved to that after his last bout of nausea. It's exhausting and distressing for both of us. If I had put him on BARF sooner, we might have avoided the meds.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:23 PM

Go raw!! You eat an ancestral diet, why not your lil Aussie??

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13 Answers

best answer

1
Dec2b5814c850b2b2510bd0a87bb4642

on August 15, 2011
at 03:44 PM

We use the Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Salmon and Duck, and our dogs love it. You can get it at Petsmart but we order it on Amazon, no tax or shipping.

best answer

1
F46d472ee4e097afd7e0081ed6f6ab21

on August 15, 2011
at 08:35 PM

We feed our dog The Honest Kitchen food, which is also a dehydrated raw food. I've tried a BARF diet, but the details were a little bit difficult. Namely, if we just put it in her bowl, she'd pick up the whole chicken neck ad try to crunch into pieces, while dragging it across the kitchen floor. My husband was so grossed out by this, he wouldn't eat in the kitchen for the next 3 days. I don't believe in giving her kibble because it is so highly processed. So we avoid it for the same reasons we avoid processed food. The Honest Kitchen is the best compromise I've found...

8
Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 03:49 PM

Dogs are experiencing the same issues as we are, but at a more dramatic rate as their food sources are MUCH worse than ours. The Dog Food Industry is a dumping grounds for meat and byproducts deemed unsuitable for human consumption.

There are many of us on PaleoHacks who feed our dogs either a BARF or Prey Model Raw diet. I'd recommend Googling both and reading as much as you can. Even though people say it is expensive to feed raw, it can be done for less than kibble. (My costs average $.79/lb for 80% free range/grass fed/frozen sardines + Salmon Oil+ Green Tripe, plus he never needs his teeth cleaned and looks 6ish although he is 12. Please excuse the lack of muscle, he is not built for exercise :( damn, BYBs.)

grain-free-dogs-

Paleo isn't just for people and seeing the GREAT results Prey Model Raw has produced for my dog, our Raw feeder community, and the myriad of fosters passing through the door, completely convinced me that MY health needed a second look, hence I found Paleo.

Check out Dogtor J's site for lot's of info and theory. He can be a bit wordy, but the words are worth it.

41e79168f1df5d656b6c4f3fef8c9b46

(630)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:57 PM

beautiful dog! mine is 11 years old and looks great too! Can't figure out how to upload a photo though!

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on March 31, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Thanks, Marie. We feed our dog a raw food diet, too. She's incredibly healthy, and has perfect pearly-white teeth that never need cleaning. We'd rather give her real food than pay money on vet bills.

3
226b10cbb6b1d3530b00d2d84a2dc86e

(3313)

on August 15, 2011
at 06:44 PM

I have a BTF (Boston Terrier Forever). They're a small breed. Melky my BTF weighs only about 25 lbs. I feed him one can of sardines per day and one hard-boiled egg from pasteurized chickens. I don't feed him anything raw yet but my eyes are open for raw sardines. The price of the sardines for the week equates to one pound of grass-fed ground beef. I can substitute the raw beef for the fish but the rations would be small. I get 24 grass fed eggs for $6/month, also the equivalent of one lb of grass fed beef. Although I'd like to feed him raw-Paleo, I'm not sure I can afford it. He seems to be thriving on the sardines and eggs so far. His coat is beautiful. His temperament has never been better. His energy is sky-high. He bounces all over the place yet can shift to a calmer gear on cue. He howls with joy the instant I open a can of sardines.

It's vital for dogs to get omega-3 fats, vitamin-D, calcium and B-vitamins. Sardines provide complete nutrition. He's 100% carnivore right now - no veggies. No potatoes. No fillers.

226b10cbb6b1d3530b00d2d84a2dc86e

(3313)

on August 17, 2011
at 01:47 PM

A vet that I read about says feed 1g protein per 1 lbs. My BTF is about 25 lbs so I give him about 25 g protein per day. The sardines in water (no salt) have 18 g protein and the egg has 6 g protein. Sardines have more Omega 3 than chicken plus more of the essential vitamins. Plus grass fed chicken is expensive while supermarket chicken is loaded with PUFA's.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:27 PM

I started as a BARF feeder and slowly moved to Prey model. The results of carnivorous diet are far superior to BARF, IMHO. And his poops are smaller as there isn't all that extra cellulose/plant material that doesn't get digested anyway.

41e79168f1df5d656b6c4f3fef8c9b46

(630)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:56 PM

I bought sardines this AM and my dog LOVES THEM!!!! me however can't get over the smell (not a fish person) So i'm going to try chicken (boiled) and sardines to see how he likes it. Would that be too much protein??

3
9f8111d9ecaa64ea098a0860b47300e0

on August 15, 2011
at 06:30 PM

Dogs ARE carnivores! Dogs are not equipped to digest anything that grew with roots. rawfed.com/myths davemech.org/biography.html???

2
1d0497f8781845ab371b479455bfee8e

(11157)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:34 PM

We have a GSD bitch who unbeknownst to us was allergic to all fish products. From the day we picked her up at 3mos, she was an itchy puppy. We thought it might be the cheap food that our lab mutt was eating, so we changed to a grain-free brand. Still itchy. Tried Natural Balance's Venison and Sweet Potato, and she stopped. Yay! I gave her the duck and potato flavor, and the itchies came back but not as pronounced.

Then I gave her the fish and sweet potato variety. Her hair started to fall out, the skin on her belly & armpits (any place she could scratch) was red and raw, even oozing with hot spots. She itched 24/7 and we honestly couldn't figure out why. So I looked up all the ingredients of all the foods we'd given her until that point, and the one commonality they all had was grain-free and fish meal and/or fish oils. We got her back onto the venison & sweet potato and within the day her itchies started to fade & her skin irritation receded.

At one point I decided to go raw with her cold turkey, and I cannot say enough good things about the BARF diet. Giant turkey necks, chicken liver, beef heart, kidneys, etc, with a blob of unsweetened yogurt and a bit of cooked greens to mimic partially digested stomach contents of a small animal. I just couldn't keep up with it for more than 6 months, and we were able to find a couple of other brands that didn't add fish products to their food: Nutro High Energy (yellow bag) and another one that comes in a black bag (starts with an "A" I think) that she does well on.

2
5113df7e1c5a7e9c7555b6b59144de24

(920)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:14 PM

I have a Cairn terrier. We noticed her slowing down that we attributed to age. She was choking on water and food. She was also urinating in her sleep and the vet told us that was "normal" for an 11 year old spayed dog. By age 12 she could barely walk because of neuromuscular difficulties. Many of her symptoms were similar to my symptoms before I went on a gluten free diet. I put her on a lamb and rice kibble and within 3 days she started improving. All went well for a while and then she started to decline again. Changed her diet to Taste of the Wild that is totally grain free. Again she improved and then declined. I called Taste of the Wild. The formula had not changed but the supplier of raw ingredients had changed. More changes and after about a year she is on a meat diet with hamburger, liver, egg, fish and veggies. I don't know if it is balanced but she seems to be doing well. She does not do well with raw meat for some reason.

When I was a child my mother got rid of my Irish Setter because he had constant diarrhea. If you search PubMed you will find that there are papers about the Irish Setter and gluten. Nearly killed off the breed.

2
7825c54bc80189a79f36d02ce51b8402

on August 15, 2011
at 04:14 PM

There is lots of info online about BARF (raw) feeding. I use about 3/4 cup grain free kibble (http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/dog/all) with 1/2lb raw organic calf liver ($0.75) or other offal meats (heart, lung, kidney), with or without a raw egg and the shell. The way my butcher cuts and bags means there is generally 1/2cup of blood in the liver bags and I make sure to include this in the bowl. The calf liver can be sometimes substituted with organic chicken parts, like necks and feet, and as long as they are raw the bones are perfectly edible, and very healthy for the dog. Every third day she gets a 3-4 inch organic beef bone which costs about $0.75, again raw, a lot of times she gets it straight out of the freezer.

I also feed raw fish when possible.

The only reason I keep kibble in her diet is I travel frequently and find it easier to travel with kibble only and grab a half dozen organic eggs for her meals when i get to to wherever i am going. I figure it costs me around $3-4/day to feed her, she also only gets r/o filtered water, or bottled water while on the road.

I rescued her at 1.5 years old and have had her for 7 months. There have been a few times where I have had to feed her other peoples dog food while traveling and it generally makes her sick if it is not grain free. Her stools are awesome, easy to pick up, and she is an extremely healthy young german shepherd, with amazing teeth, and a great coat.

E3c6d84c01a12e2ee1c49e2180d84238

(315)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:29 PM

We also feed the BARF diet, plus a bit of Taste of the Wild kibble. My Petey's digestive system was so disabled by the time we got him (at 1 year) at he can't even tolerate raw chicken necks. He also doesn't do well with raw fish. We typically feed ground anything on sale with the kibble. He also gets aloe vera juice when I can remember to put it in his bowl. Two years ago, we also put him on a maintenance dose of metronitolol. We caved to that after his last bout of nausea. It's exhausting and distressing for both of us. If I had put him on BARF sooner, we might have avoided the meds.

E3c6d84c01a12e2ee1c49e2180d84238

(315)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:31 PM

Sorry. Metronitozol.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:24 PM

Prop Widow, did you try feeding 3x a day? Sometimes that cures the bile problems.

2
8828d5922b47a0e2b82bde2232037746

(616)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Dogs are truly carnivores and grains should not be part of their diet. I feed my dog EVO grain free, low carb kibble for breakfast and for dinner he gets a slice of cow leg bone, marrow, and steak. The cut with the bone, marrow, and meat generally costs $1-$2 and he gets the EVO in the morning due to convenience for me. If I could afford to feed him organs, bones, and meat day and night I would. If I had time to research the exact nutrient needs for dogs, I'd definitely think about fully raw carnivore diet for him. I'm fortunate that my vet shares my thoughts on carnivorous feeding for dogs. My dog's weight stays constant and his teeth stay pretty clean. No bad breath and his poo doesn't smell as bad as others. Whatever you do, don't feed yourself or your dog grains - that includes rice!!

BTW, I did notice that when I switched him to grain free, he was more calm. He used to throw up occasionally and would have bouts of diarrhea. No more.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 15, 2011
at 11:36 PM

While I agree dogs may eat plant material, it is not digested as cellulose requires a lot of time to digest. Ever pick stringers of fresh spring grass out of your dog's ass? Yah, it isn't digested, at all. Believe me, I've done lots of experiments lbs in, lbs out types of experiments to prove to myself that I was not shortchanging my dog's health through excluding veggies. (And the time I spent working at the San Diego Zoo's CRES extracting hormones from poop, means I have MUCH more experience in these matters than most.) And, btw, the raw feeders are moving further from BARF to Prey model.

9f8111d9ecaa64ea098a0860b47300e0

on August 15, 2011
at 06:28 PM

Sorry but you are wrong! Dogs ARE carnivores! Dogs are not equipped to digest anything that grew with roots. http://www.rawfed.com/myths/ http://www.davemech.org/biography.html

Da8e709acde269e8b8bfbc09d1737841

(1906)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:50 PM

Dogs are scavengers and are not carnivores. Dogs will naturally eat ruffage like grass and other vegetation, though the majority of their food intake is meat. There's a reason many BARF advocates mix vegetables into their raw meat patties, and why brands like Primal include a certain percentage of vegetable matter, and it' not just for filler.

Ed983a42344945b1ff70fd9597a23493

on August 15, 2011
at 04:41 PM

I agree with no grains, but dogs are omnivores, not carnivores.

2
34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on August 15, 2011
at 03:37 PM

We have an almost year old Australian Shepherd and have fed her Pro Plan since we got her about 7 months ago. She has had eating issues from the get go and just was not interested in eating and has thrown up occasionally. She's hungry, and gets all excited around meal times but then we give her the food and she walks away from it. It was really pissing me off, we've never had anything but Labs previously and they will eat anything so I didn't understand what her problem was. So I bought a small bag of the grain free Blue Buffalo Duck this weekend to see if it's the food that turns her off or she's just neurotic. We've never seen her eat so fast in her life. She loves that food and the worst part is that the ProPlan is not much cheaper than the Blue Buffalo, we thought it was a decent food.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on August 15, 2011
at 05:04 PM

It's a convenience issue for me at the moment as we're getting ready to move and I haven't had time to read up on how much to feed and what exactly to feed etc. I'll look more into it once we're settled.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:23 PM

Go raw!! You eat an ancestral diet, why not your lil Aussie??

1
35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on March 30, 2012
at 06:37 PM

My German Shepherd eats no grains and no vegetation either (except for the grass she eats, what she helps herself to out of the compost pile and the partially fermented vegetation she gets from the tripe I feed her.) Also, she gets no processed food. Her diet and mine are pretty compatible: fish, eggs (blended with the shell), beef, chicken, organ meats, bony meat. I never do any food prep. I just throw the piece of meat into the yard and she deals with it, even if it's frozen. A sheep's skull, complete with brain, tongue, eyes and other goodies is an occasional treat. Sandy is doing great on this diet.

35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on March 30, 2012
at 06:38 PM

Oh, and her teeth are great from all that bone chewing.

1
Ac7edffeaea00e2076762ea16d19c239

(192)

on August 15, 2011
at 04:24 PM

I feed my dogs Sojos. http://www.sojos.com/ Sojos is grain-free 100% Natural freeze dried. My dogs do really well on it and love it.

0
2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

on March 30, 2012
at 10:26 PM

We have our dogs on Origin (completely grain free formula) which is a mix of free range eggs, turkey, chicken, lamb).It works out to be quite cost effective because they only need 1/2 cup of it each.I would not feed dogs any form of grain, even rice, they have no digestive enzymes for starch. Even better would to feed them raw meat (grass-fed/wild). Also they occasionally get canned, wild salmon or raw egg yolks (which they devour). It cleared up all their skin conditions (their bishon-shitzus) who are known for dry, flaking skin. Also it cleared up their hotspots and skin cysts.Also we KNOW NEVER TO VACCINATE THEM, NEVER WILL.They are the happiest, healthiest and disease free dogs.

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