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What do you think of Fred Hahn's stand against anti-dogmatism?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 18, 2011 at 2:53 PM

What do you think of Fred Hahn's stand against anti-dogmatism?

There is an interesting discussion going on at Chris Masterjohn???s blog where in an anti-dogmatism blogpost, in the comments Fred Hahn is making the stand that low carbers are so right that there should be no concerns about dogmatism. http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/08/against-dietary-dogmatism.html

Is it absurdly ironic, or am I out to lunch?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:06 PM

Fred is correct in saying that there is clear evidence that low carb diets work for weight loss.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 19, 2011
at 05:02 AM

Fred's doesn't look like rosacea and yes, Ambimorph, Rosacea is inheritable but like acne and other skin issues, does not have to be expressed. The fact that he as been low carb paleo ish for over a decade is alarming given the state of skin and the fact that he is still loosing his hair... this suggests a serious inflammatory issue . Could be an infection, could also be his diet. I am willing to bet he has a thyroid issue.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on August 19, 2011
at 04:59 AM

@Ambimorph.. not all red skin is rosacea either.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 18, 2011
at 06:28 PM

Melissa: I'm waiting for your comprehensive LC-red skin thread. It's something I hadn't noticed/considered and which may very well be true.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 05:47 PM

Melissa, are you speaking to the fact that many gain weight back, or something else?

E639bc85fd42430285596434a6515ad5

(2226)

on August 18, 2011
at 05:23 PM

I don't know where "Guyenet's followers" or "the low carb boards" come into play. But just going from the link in the question, it does look Fred is defending dogmatism about the superiority of low-carb diets. In comments to a post warning against dogmatism. That's a touch ironic. So I don't think the original questioner is out to lunch.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 05:09 PM

I think you could show that most diets work if people comply with them. Look at the Disease Proof blog, plenty of people there getting thin on a miserable low-fat diet. But most people can't do it. Perhaps one day we'll come up with a good standard for a diet that improves satiety consistently enough that compliance is high, but it might never happen because people are so different.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:30 PM

Are there long-term studies on low-carb diets? The longest term study I've seen is two years, and that seemed to show decent maintenance, correlated with compliance and completion (duh, lol). http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681#t=articleDiscussion

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:29 PM

My comment was the second one posted under John.......Fred needs to back off his steroids.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:23 PM

I don't think anyone can say Low Carb works for EVERYONE. It's just not true. It doesn't matter if the science says it should work for everyone, sometimes it just doesn't.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:00 PM

Susceptibility is heritable. It's common in red heads. I think something not necessarily found in traditional cultures causes it, but I don't think that eating a good diet alone can necessarily fix it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 03:51 PM

I'm pretty sure the science shows that NONE of these diets (based on low-carb or low-fat) work long-term.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 03:48 PM

when he was younger he had nice skin

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:36 PM

Forget low-fat or low-carb, I think it's time for the Low-dogma diet.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:35 PM

Fred Hahn looks like a red-head. Where did all this creepy diet-typing come from????????

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 03:32 PM

Yeah, if someone who ate a diet I recommended had a skin issue, I would seriously question my diet. If rosacea is heritable, how come you don't see it at all in traditional cultures? Either way, he doesn't look like he has rosacea. He looks a lot like Cordain.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Let's not discount people based on skin colour. Seriously, rosacea susceptibility is largely heritable, it doesn't imply alcoholism, and cannot necessarily be resolved by a good diet. There is some evidence it's caused by infection. If someone you knew who ate your approved version of paleo still had asthma or arthritis, would you blame the diet?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Sometimes I am glad that my work filter won't let me read most of the blogs. LOL. That's just dumb and not very open-minded on his part. WOW.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 03:07 PM

I've met Fred Hahn and he's nice, but in the end he's a personal trainer. So yeah, I'll take his exercise advice, but I could care less what he thinks about nutrition, particularly since his flaming red skin looks like that of an alcoholic.

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4 Answers

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3
154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

on August 18, 2011
at 03:07 PM

Close-mindedness is fine as long as you're right.

Give me a frickin' break.

Everyone thinks they are right.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Sometimes I am glad that my work filter won't let me read most of the blogs. LOL. That's just dumb and not very open-minded on his part. WOW.

5
189b5f92563aff6742ae46ebec950977

(217)

on August 18, 2011
at 02:59 PM

I'm a health coach, and I'm convinced that there is absolutely no "one diet" that works for everyone.. despite what science says... get out of your dogma and live your life. EVERY diet theory gets stuck in dogma land... 100% raw 100% vegan 100% paleo 100% primal 100% cabbage 100% fruit.. just eat what makes you feel good and live your life. There's a dogma for you.

2
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:20 PM

I read the whole article yesterday, and Fred's comment below it. Chris understands what is at the crux of Fred's comment, but that wasn't the point of the article. Fred is missing CMast's point with a side skew argumentative approach. I think CMast is plenty smart enough to understand that there are some things in life that we do "KNOW". Many of his articles contain 'facts' that we "KNOW". Sheesh.

I think Fred was just trying to pick a fight because he saw an avenue for it.

--> whatever. no big deal.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:29 PM

My comment was the second one posted under John.......Fred needs to back off his steroids.

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 03:46 PM

If I had to pick only one answer, I would say you are out to lunch. I have been following many of these conversations, and it seems to me that the dogmatism is usually the stuff of Guyenet's followers. There has been some talk that it is different on the low carb boards, but I don't know which boards they are talking about. The ones I visit aren't even discussing it. Maybe there are some ZC cross-fit-type boards that I don't know about where people are being dogmatic. Fred is correct in saying that there is clear evidence that low carb diets work for weight loss.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 05:09 PM

I think you could show that most diets work if people comply with them. Look at the Disease Proof blog, plenty of people there getting thin on a miserable low-fat diet. But most people can't do it. Perhaps one day we'll come up with a good standard for a diet that improves satiety consistently enough that compliance is high, but it might never happen because people are so different.

E639bc85fd42430285596434a6515ad5

(2226)

on August 18, 2011
at 05:23 PM

I don't know where "Guyenet's followers" or "the low carb boards" come into play. But just going from the link in the question, it does look Fred is defending dogmatism about the superiority of low-carb diets. In comments to a post warning against dogmatism. That's a touch ironic. So I don't think the original questioner is out to lunch.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:30 PM

Are there long-term studies on low-carb diets? The longest term study I've seen is two years, and that seemed to show decent maintenance, correlated with compliance and completion (duh, lol). http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681#t=articleDiscussion

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 18, 2011
at 05:47 PM

Melissa, are you speaking to the fact that many gain weight back, or something else?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 18, 2011
at 03:51 PM

I'm pretty sure the science shows that NONE of these diets (based on low-carb or low-fat) work long-term.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 18, 2011
at 04:23 PM

I don't think anyone can say Low Carb works for EVERYONE. It's just not true. It doesn't matter if the science says it should work for everyone, sometimes it just doesn't.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:06 PM

Fred is correct in saying that there is clear evidence that low carb diets work for weight loss.

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