25

votes

Do we need to be a lot more careful about publicly lauding doctors who support paleo principles?

Answered on October 09, 2015
Created March 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM

There's been a lot of press recently around Dwight Lundell, MD - a retired heart surgeon who is cited in at least one traditional food blog as "an accomplished surgeon". He had a SOTT.net article in which he sounded reasonably in line with paleo principles. He's even had a recent March 17 Fox News appearance.

Like others, I had the impulse to trumpet this, "Heart Surgeon says yadayadagrassfedsaturatedfatisgoodyadayada...", but Googling his name brought up a 2008 hearing in which his license to practice was revoked (although he was already retired at that point). He also has an entry on QuackWatch, though I'm not sure what credibility I should or shouldn't give QuackWatch itself, either.

+++

Edited to add:

In the interest of airing both sides of the story, it turns out that Dr. Lundell did write an open letter giving his side of the story with regard to his license revocation.

greatcholesterollie.com/letter.pdf (this link provided by GroveGal)

+++

So, do I know Doctor Lundell's whole story? No; I can still personally give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I do know that were I to send Dr. Lundell's articles or news appearances to friends or family, several of them might take the initiative to Google his name like I did and in short order find a revoked license and a QuackWatch entry - and so they'd relegate him AND his actually pertinent message to their mental dustbin - even before a chance to argue, were I convinced, that his license was unfairly revoked.

What do we do when doctors hit the paleosphere radar fresh with proclamations that our dietary choices are wise? Is there a due diligence (of at least a cautionary name Googling...? or more...?) we should exercise when determining which doctors' words are worth sharing, for the sake of an attempt at preserving the credibility of the ancestral health movement?

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I think the letter/link from Dr. Lundell that you found and pasted does add to an analysis of Dr. Lundell's case, and the circumstances/timing of his license revocation certainly seem fishy - but it is ultimately down to he said/they said. However, that doesn't change the question - of whether a doctor should have a fairly squeaky reputation for his/her articles and press to be forwarded to friends and family as evidence of doctors embracing paleo principles.

9e3bf43de29f66e5bb7be9c7d176b5e1

(539)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:48 PM

If you want to split hairs, technically Kruse' board certification has been suspended, so I'm not even sure he's practicing medicine. He's even made it painstakingly clear that any service he provides to followers of his movement are NOT medical in nature.

Ba185ac907f81c3ce3700aefc73c0f63

(10)

on May 31, 2012
at 04:03 PM

GroveGal can you provide some links to prove your most excellent points?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 28, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Quackwatch is a pretty useless propaganda machine continuing the dogma. Here are a couple of links on the founder - http://doctorwatch.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-court-rules-that-dr-barrett-is-fraud.html and http://bolenreport.com/feature_articles/feature_article060.htm

A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

(120)

on March 27, 2012
at 11:33 PM

Thank you Anondson. Throwing the baby out with the bath water because of a Fox appearance seems a little extreme. The least people can do is dig deeply to make an informed decision. They may find themselves applauding and passing it on to family and friends who might applaud, too.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 27, 2012
at 10:15 PM

See above. I've included the link.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 27, 2012
at 09:20 PM

It's very possible that Dr. Lundell may have indeed been wronged, but sending his press/articles to friends and family, only to have them protest that he's on Quackwatch, or that his license was revoked, only for me to, in turn, argue that his revocation was unfair and a product of ulterior motives...well, it certainly muddies the waters and distracts from Dr. Lundell's original message, doesn't it?

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 27, 2012
at 08:17 PM

The equal travesty is that many in the Paleo/primal/WAPF communities are well aware of the nonsense aimed at doctors and researchers who speak against CW. But because he appeared on Fox they are ready to kick him off the island.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 27, 2012
at 06:18 PM

I'm married to a doctor, so you know, grain of salt. But I feel like Western docs get a bad rap and I personally don't know any that I would characterize as "arrogant". If you ask for something outside of their frame of reference and understanding, you're not going to get the results you want. Period. You don't ask a car mechanic to bake a cake, don't ask a Western doctor for something they can't give you. They are great for broken bones and such, not so good with wellness. Use them wisely.

A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

(120)

on March 27, 2012
at 05:20 PM

@familygrokumetarian Please read my comment below and this link http://greatcholesterollie.com/letter.pdf I am reminded of William S. Gilbert's quote, "things are seldom what they seem."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 27, 2012
at 04:55 PM

Yes, lets give him a round of applause. This is why I like to defend "The Quilt" whether I agree with him or not, or even if I understand/don't understand what he is saying. He's walking around with a target on his back and on his front. The Quilt isn't even retired and is even more out on a limb than Lundell was(is).

A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

(120)

on March 27, 2012
at 04:16 PM

Hi Anondson - here's a link that is a letter from Dr. Lundell written when this occurred. http://greatcholesterollie.com/letter.pdf I know Dr. Lundell and was privy to these events as they unfolded. The travesty many people are missing is this happens to good doctors who speak out. Dr. Lundell is one of many.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Yeah, I feel especially for the elderly in appointments. My grandmother's memory has never been that great (very absent minded as a person), and it is just getting worse, and she was just being taken for a spin by a quack doctor that was switching up all her meds for no reason. My mom kept all the slips, took photos of everything, and reported it, but now my grandma is scared to go to the doctor's office alone. Has to bring a child or grandchild because she feels vulnerable (which she is!).

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 26, 2012
at 10:25 PM

Agreed, no need to promote the black sheep. Most likely they're already loud and well-known. The level-headed folks are usually stay under the radar.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 07:26 PM

These patients are...http://www.patientslikeme.com/

645be4f772c65ed78832224d35222893

(364)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:17 PM

If Dr.Kruse is so confident in his ideas, then he should perform experiments like Dr. Terry Wahls is trying to do. He's just interested in making money, not pursuing concrete scientific discoveries.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 26, 2012
at 06:12 PM

I had to file a complaint against a doctor recently for something that was just so awful and a lot of the complaints don't make it through. I'm lucky I kept really good documentation and I'm informed, but most patients aren't like me.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Bravo, people will always take the "doctor's order" as the leading edge of scientific discover, when really it's the squints in the universities who are going through the muck and finding out the facts. The doctors are there to apply it. Good point about the references, always appreciate an accessible data source. I always am a bit weirded out when doctors have their certificates posted on their website on the front page like "Look, I'm not lying". How many times have you been accused? Front page, really? *cough*Mercola*cough.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:02 PM

Yeah, I follow a lot of OB/GYN's on twitter, and they drop a fair amount of swear words. I wouldn't put too much weight on the judgement of character based on writing (hey, they didn't get English degrees!) but I do agree that it goes a long way for building a public reputation if someone takes the time to write in a professional manner.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Quackwatch is very useful if you are debunking things like anti-vaxers and obvious woo-woo "drink plant extract and balance out your electromagnetic waves" or "DETOX ALL THE THINGS" doctors. The stuff that is not-crazy, but just outside of mainstream? That's where it gets muddy.

D8f58eba263277ec6119293137b85b02

(1071)

on March 26, 2012
at 04:30 PM

If people dismiss information because their idea of research is reading the first result of a Google search, then that's their own problem. ;) Only they can stop themselves from being willfully ignorant. Yes, in a perfect world we would always research things before we echo them, but people can't criticize us for seemingly not doing so if they themselves are only skimming the surface of the information available. If they're not interested in being open to information that contradicts their beliefs, then they're no worse than we are when we prematurely share something that supports ours.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Yeah, Quackwatch is awesome until you run into an article that derides something because of lack of evidence (which is not, in and of itself, a reason to mock something). There needs to be a "Quackwatch Watch".

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 26, 2012
at 04:00 PM

I guess the issue then at hand is: am I an unwitting cultivator/promoter of someone who is potentially damaging? What due diligence check boxes should a nonguru ancestral health community peon like me take care of before I send along a new expert's advice? I can't prevent black sheep / potentially damaging folks, but I feel that I can do a reasonable bit of research to avoid inadvertently promoting black sheep in the making.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:40 PM

Good find. You deserve a new badge for this one baby. Wow. I am guilty. I consider myself having been slapped. I should have KNOWN anything on FOX could not be good but I shared the stupid clip on my wall anyway. Geez. Why can't we get some nice, normal (competent and not insane) docs into our clan?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:37 PM

Differentiating fact from opinion is HUGE. Peer-review is not just some stupid hassle that backwards scientists do. When we get requests for peer-reviewing at work, we have to be extremely precise about gaps in logic, citations, and jumping to conclusions. The precision of Lalonde and Jaminet might not always make for exciting conclusions, but they are exciting when you realize that the conclusions are likely true.

1b0940ab80f8b74abf31b8c6ab30f59b

(40)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:37 PM

I used to listen to Gary Null for years, and always had reservations, and the Quackwatch people went after him, but I think they are so deep into CW that anyone out of their mainstream view is a quack. I remember all the "healthnuts" over the years that I have read and tried to learn from, because there was something to what they were saying about food that no one else was saying (Adele Davis, Pritikin, etc.) may have been wrong in today's current knowledge, but everyone gets attacked who defies conventional wisdom--there is too much money in industrial food and medicine.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 26, 2012
at 03:35 PM

It's no surprise that they are such an unhealthy generation. Doctor worship is scary.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 26, 2012
at 03:32 PM

The cases where I'm most tempted to use "this doctor says..." is with my parents and inlaws, whose generation in general believes doctors' advice as gospel truth. If my mother-in-law is willing to believe Dr. Oz over me because he's a doctor (or because he's a "cardiothoracic surgeon", take your pick), then it would be nice for me to have a sane, credible pro-paleo heart surgeon whose approach I could send to her, with at least a note from me pointing out that not even heart surgeons can agree on what a healthy diet should resemble.

1b0940ab80f8b74abf31b8c6ab30f59b

(40)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:30 PM

i feel that I have gotten a lot of help by reading Jack Kruse's blog and MDA forums (Leptin reset) over the last few months. I am still skeptical, and struggle to understand the science he is proposing, but I feel that reading his thoughts has given me a lot of food for thought, and I have a list of labs I want to get taken, as well as have tried certain supplements that he proposes as beneficial to better health.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 26, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Thanks for the snapshot of the case, OddBallin - a relevant addition. I too read chunks of the case PDF, as such details are usually of interest to me, but a Google search result title mentioning a revoked license may be "enough" for others to simply dismiss him out of hand.

D8f58eba263277ec6119293137b85b02

(1071)

on March 26, 2012
at 02:53 PM

His license revocation case can be read about here: http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/lundell/order_2008.pdf and it's actually pretty interesting. I haven't gotten through the entire thing, but apparently his license was revoked over surgical complications ("unprofessionalism"), which I don't think undermines his knowledge of heart health. This is telling: "All four cases in this matter had involved high-risk surgeries which had a high complication rate, even when the surgery was flawlessly performed." Good question!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 26, 2012
at 02:50 PM

At this point, only doctors with unconventional/unregimented mindsets are likely to consider/embrace the importance of nutrition. Dr Kruse isn't out of bounds by that definition and all the information I've seen indicates he's competetent and innovative. I may not hire him to watch kids under 5 but otherwise I'll listen to his thoughts and reach my own conclusions.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on March 26, 2012
at 02:44 PM

Niiiiiice question.

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17 Answers

20
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 26, 2012
at 03:22 PM

I think people really need to understand that heart surgeons are not the people best qualified to talk about what causes heart disease. Doctors are not always scientists. Doctors are taught basic principles of human biology, but mainly they are taught the practice of medicine. They are unfortunately not often taught how to use or read research correctly (if they even have time to read it). I have a lot of acquaintances who are doctors or med students, for example, and I'd be happy to see them if I broke my foot or cut my hand open, but they would be totally useless for IBS or acne. Considering how many of us have suffered from the fact that the American medical system is built around selecting mostly-insane people, making them as arrogant as possible, and teaching them nothing about things like nutrition.

And the doctors that are thinking about nutrition who have become gurus? I would check their references. It's convenient that rather than footnoting his references like a researcher would, Dr. Kruse piles them on the bottom of his posts and when you try to find which of his "facts" correspond to his references, it's nearly impossible. And when you try to find them in the scientific literature...his facts just aren't there. Try to find any papers on cold decreased Neuropeptide Y or cold causing autophagy. Mat Lalonde, Paul Jaminet, and I have looked and found nothing. ANother example- Dr. Rosedale. He has a scientific paper, which might put him in the class of a researcher, until you carefully look at the numbers and find that the units of leptin and insulin are just wrong! Another clue- it's cited three times, twice by Rosedale and once in a random article by a low-carb doctor.

So hearing "a doctor says blah blah about health," well...it means nothing to me, I don't even bother linking to it no matter who the doctor is. In fact, it means less than nothing since doctors are often so arrogant that they have less useful information to share than a quantitatively oriented layman like Denise Minger. A medical research or professor on the subject, I would listen to.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 26, 2012
at 03:35 PM

It's no surprise that they are such an unhealthy generation. Doctor worship is scary.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 07:26 PM

These patients are...http://www.patientslikeme.com/

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 26, 2012
at 03:32 PM

The cases where I'm most tempted to use "this doctor says..." is with my parents and inlaws, whose generation in general believes doctors' advice as gospel truth. If my mother-in-law is willing to believe Dr. Oz over me because he's a doctor (or because he's a "cardiothoracic surgeon", take your pick), then it would be nice for me to have a sane, credible pro-paleo heart surgeon whose approach I could send to her, with at least a note from me pointing out that not even heart surgeons can agree on what a healthy diet should resemble.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Bravo, people will always take the "doctor's order" as the leading edge of scientific discover, when really it's the squints in the universities who are going through the muck and finding out the facts. The doctors are there to apply it. Good point about the references, always appreciate an accessible data source. I always am a bit weirded out when doctors have their certificates posted on their website on the front page like "Look, I'm not lying". How many times have you been accused? Front page, really? *cough*Mercola*cough.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 26, 2012
at 06:12 PM

I had to file a complaint against a doctor recently for something that was just so awful and a lot of the complaints don't make it through. I'm lucky I kept really good documentation and I'm informed, but most patients aren't like me.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:37 PM

Differentiating fact from opinion is HUGE. Peer-review is not just some stupid hassle that backwards scientists do. When we get requests for peer-reviewing at work, we have to be extremely precise about gaps in logic, citations, and jumping to conclusions. The precision of Lalonde and Jaminet might not always make for exciting conclusions, but they are exciting when you realize that the conclusions are likely true.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Yeah, I feel especially for the elderly in appointments. My grandmother's memory has never been that great (very absent minded as a person), and it is just getting worse, and she was just being taken for a spin by a quack doctor that was switching up all her meds for no reason. My mom kept all the slips, took photos of everything, and reported it, but now my grandma is scared to go to the doctor's office alone. Has to bring a child or grandchild because she feels vulnerable (which she is!).

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on March 27, 2012
at 06:18 PM

I'm married to a doctor, so you know, grain of salt. But I feel like Western docs get a bad rap and I personally don't know any that I would characterize as "arrogant". If you ask for something outside of their frame of reference and understanding, you're not going to get the results you want. Period. You don't ask a car mechanic to bake a cake, don't ask a Western doctor for something they can't give you. They are great for broken bones and such, not so good with wellness. Use them wisely.

12
A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

on March 27, 2012
at 11:10 AM

It always surprises me that people do not dig deeper and question why a heart surgeon who retired from medicine in 2003 was suddenly brought before the board in 2008 after he published a book about how to cure heart disease by ignoring conventional medical wisdom.

You'll find they pulled patient cases from 8 years prior to retiring; that he had the highest patient success rate in Arizona; that he was voted Top 10 Doctors many times until he wrote a book about the greed and fallacy of statin medication for heart disease.

Look deeper. You'll find he was the only retired surgeon that lost his license to have the announcement broadcast by Press Release. The message was clear. Let any other surgeon speak out like this and you'll lose your license - even if you are retired.

Applaud this man for the courage he had to make a difference that has saved countless lives since.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 27, 2012
at 04:55 PM

Yes, lets give him a round of applause. This is why I like to defend "The Quilt" whether I agree with him or not, or even if I understand/don't understand what he is saying. He's walking around with a target on his back and on his front. The Quilt isn't even retired and is even more out on a limb than Lundell was(is).

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I think the letter/link from Dr. Lundell that you found and pasted does add to an analysis of Dr. Lundell's case, and the circumstances/timing of his license revocation certainly seem fishy - but it is ultimately down to he said/they said. However, that doesn't change the question - of whether a doctor should have a fairly squeaky reputation for his/her articles and press to be forwarded to friends and family as evidence of doctors embracing paleo principles.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 27, 2012
at 09:20 PM

It's very possible that Dr. Lundell may have indeed been wronged, but sending his press/articles to friends and family, only to have them protest that he's on Quackwatch, or that his license was revoked, only for me to, in turn, argue that his revocation was unfair and a product of ulterior motives...well, it certainly muddies the waters and distracts from Dr. Lundell's original message, doesn't it?

Ba185ac907f81c3ce3700aefc73c0f63

(10)

on May 31, 2012
at 04:03 PM

GroveGal can you provide some links to prove your most excellent points?

9
645be4f772c65ed78832224d35222893

on March 26, 2012
at 02:39 PM

I think a lot of the explicitly paleo doctors are pretty quacky. At the least, they are relatively unprofessional. Jack Kruse, for example, drops swear words regularly on facebook. How is that at all helpful to our movement? If he's supposed to be a leading intellectual, and his education/profession do put him higher on the totem pole than others like Sisson and Robb Wolf,then he needs to present an image that is as professional as possible.

And he doesn't. He's a joke.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 26, 2012
at 02:50 PM

At this point, only doctors with unconventional/unregimented mindsets are likely to consider/embrace the importance of nutrition. Dr Kruse isn't out of bounds by that definition and all the information I've seen indicates he's competetent and innovative. I may not hire him to watch kids under 5 but otherwise I'll listen to his thoughts and reach my own conclusions.

645be4f772c65ed78832224d35222893

(364)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:17 PM

If Dr.Kruse is so confident in his ideas, then he should perform experiments like Dr. Terry Wahls is trying to do. He's just interested in making money, not pursuing concrete scientific discoveries.

1b0940ab80f8b74abf31b8c6ab30f59b

(40)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:30 PM

i feel that I have gotten a lot of help by reading Jack Kruse's blog and MDA forums (Leptin reset) over the last few months. I am still skeptical, and struggle to understand the science he is proposing, but I feel that reading his thoughts has given me a lot of food for thought, and I have a list of labs I want to get taken, as well as have tried certain supplements that he proposes as beneficial to better health.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:02 PM

Yeah, I follow a lot of OB/GYN's on twitter, and they drop a fair amount of swear words. I wouldn't put too much weight on the judgement of character based on writing (hey, they didn't get English degrees!) but I do agree that it goes a long way for building a public reputation if someone takes the time to write in a professional manner.

9e3bf43de29f66e5bb7be9c7d176b5e1

(539)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:48 PM

If you want to split hairs, technically Kruse' board certification has been suspended, so I'm not even sure he's practicing medicine. He's even made it painstakingly clear that any service he provides to followers of his movement are NOT medical in nature.

7
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:00 PM

I could not agree more about this. I think it is a good move to check out people using their Dr. credentials online and in articles etc. before taking their advice. Why should we be any less vigilant about selecting our diet and lifestyle doctor gurus than we are in who we select to provide direct care for ourselves and families? Maybe it would be different if these folks weren't using their doctor credentials publicly, but since many of them are we should at least see how they stack up on ratemds.com. Here's a nice article about how to go about selecting a doctor and I think it applies to this scenario.

6
D63a9a7789b948a1e88647f6c0e504ca

on March 26, 2012
at 01:19 PM

This is exactly what happened when I sent the Lundell link to a non-paleo friend who is very scientific-rationalist-wants-peer-reviewed-studies: she immediately found him on Quackwatch. Though it appears that the guy who runs Quackwatch is himself a nut, so that isn't trustworthy either. Some comment I read indicated that Lundell lost his license for matters to do with record-keeping, not his views or his practice of medicine, but still.

1b0940ab80f8b74abf31b8c6ab30f59b

(40)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:37 PM

I used to listen to Gary Null for years, and always had reservations, and the Quackwatch people went after him, but I think they are so deep into CW that anyone out of their mainstream view is a quack. I remember all the "healthnuts" over the years that I have read and tried to learn from, because there was something to what they were saying about food that no one else was saying (Adele Davis, Pritikin, etc.) may have been wrong in today's current knowledge, but everyone gets attacked who defies conventional wisdom--there is too much money in industrial food and medicine.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 26, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Yeah, Quackwatch is awesome until you run into an article that derides something because of lack of evidence (which is not, in and of itself, a reason to mock something). There needs to be a "Quackwatch Watch".

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 26, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Quackwatch is very useful if you are debunking things like anti-vaxers and obvious woo-woo "drink plant extract and balance out your electromagnetic waves" or "DETOX ALL THE THINGS" doctors. The stuff that is not-crazy, but just outside of mainstream? That's where it gets muddy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 28, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Quackwatch is a pretty useless propaganda machine continuing the dogma. Here are a couple of links on the founder - http://doctorwatch.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-court-rules-that-dr-barrett-is-fraud.html and http://bolenreport.com/feature_articles/feature_article060.htm

5
07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on March 26, 2012
at 01:11 PM

Apparently, yes. Excellent find; I hadn't the initiative to google him myself - I think I had unquestioningly shared the article in question.

Like you, I think I can still give him the benefit of the doubt (possibly only because my own research supports his recommendations), but I certainly understand that not everyone would look at the results of a simple Google search with such an attitude.

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 27, 2012
at 01:26 PM

He's a lousy businessman. Check. He's a lousy record keeper. Check. He may even have killed a few patients. Check. (Of course look who he's operating on.) His words are beautiful. He has confessed that his entire professional life was a failure. How great is that, and how wonderfulis this man ....... Robert Mcnamara offered a half- assed apology for his Viet Nam "THING". And I was grateful for that little token of humanity and truth. This guy went way past what Mcnamara did. He did not waffle and did not try to pass the blame onto someone else. The man is a true mensch....... And wow, that Quackwatch guy is a piece of work. Any and all of the subjects I personally have tried that he mentions/rags have been very useful to my health. The guy is WRONG every time. How is that possilble? How can you be wrong on every subject? (Almost forgot "W")

2
Ea39524d26493061ff722522fdfb2585

on January 14, 2013
at 06:04 AM

What happened to this dr appears to be what happens in corporate America all of the time. Someone does or says something that pisses a higher-up off or embarrasses them, and they go back to something paperwork... Clocking in, emails, something minute, that was irrelevant when it happened, but technically was against the rules... And use it to fire them. It happens ALL of the time...

2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 26, 2012
at 03:45 PM

There's plenty of potentially damaging folks practicing and prescribing paleo. Names don't need to be mentioned, but even the paleo movement has its black sheep. What to do about it? I don't know. Googling 'paleo diet' brings up an awful lot of negativity of itself. Search YouTube and the top results are Harley bashing it. It does seem like the negativity associated with an individual is any worse than the negativity out there with regard to paleo in general.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 26, 2012
at 10:25 PM

Agreed, no need to promote the black sheep. Most likely they're already loud and well-known. The level-headed folks are usually stay under the radar.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on March 26, 2012
at 04:00 PM

I guess the issue then at hand is: am I an unwitting cultivator/promoter of someone who is potentially damaging? What due diligence check boxes should a nonguru ancestral health community peon like me take care of before I send along a new expert's advice? I can't prevent black sheep / potentially damaging folks, but I feel that I can do a reasonable bit of research to avoid inadvertently promoting black sheep in the making.

1
F713360c17376db184444adfaad756ec

(10)

on August 25, 2013
at 08:34 PM

It seems simple enough to me. Nothing in the Quackwatch article deals with the science behind Dr. Lundell's contention about dietary causes of arterial inflammation. All the stuff about his troubles with authorities, finances and whatever have nothing to do with the science of what he espouses. The Wright Brothers were bicycle builders, it had nothing to do with how good their science was when it came to getting that plane off the ground. All I'm interested in is whether or not Lundell's ideas have merit or not.

1
1c77caab77a76c0a48c7d92d3ba62752

(10)

on June 18, 2013
at 11:41 PM

When are people going to realize that Quackwatch is the darkest of the dark...a prime tool for disinformation in support of the powers that want to keep their medical monopoly alive so that they can continue to thrive financially from the ignorance of the people when it comes to medicine and health. All the best of the best are cited on Quackwatch...all the ones that provide true, natural, excellent, and often inexpensive solutions that mitigate the need for pharmaceutical dependency. OF COURSE Dr. Lundell would be on there. Everyone great who has a widespread influence is.

0
Cbe26840790763db599c28f83280e688

on October 09, 2015
at 05:02 AM

The "good" doctor has written a fable. Few of his findings are credible, and his books are filled with half truth and even some lies. H is no more a medical researcher as I am, and some of his statements are so off the wall that anyone who reasds critically will be astonished that he is taken seriously. Artireail inflammation has MANY and COMPLEX causes, not a single one. Statins have been shown to work in SOME patients. One size fits all does not apply to human beings. We are, to say teh least, incredibly complex systems of combinations of inherited traits, environmental impact impacts on us, and behavior. Inflammation itself is incredibly so complex that we have barely scratched the surface of understanding it. Nor do we have any evidence about what kinds of fat are healthier or not. It is simply too new an area of research.

0
Cbe26840790763db599c28f83280e688

on October 09, 2015
at 04:50 AM

Add the usual h then tt then ps colon forward slash forward slash in front of the address to get to the article. It was written by a teaching and practicing doctor of internal medicine. .........seesangelsinthearchitecture.wordpress(TYPE DOT COM HERE)/2013/08/11/a-delicensed-heart-surgeon-misleads-you-about-what-causes-heart-disease/

0
46fb5909a528e58c8373eb98cbaac4c6

on May 25, 2013
at 09:06 PM

One could also just talk about his/her own experience with the standard American diet, inflammation and a major health issue to help support the idea that the switch to a diet high in carbs and the wrong kinds of fats wreaks havoc. I am living proof. EVERY time I slip back into eating and drinking anything I like, which includes more carbs, foods loaded with Omega 6 oils and alcohol, I suffer from debilitating colitis. Then I go back to the very healthy and fresh Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCB), which is much like the Paleo Diet, and I heal again. It really IS all about inflammation and my colon is a testament to it. AND my GI doctor has never said one word about restricting my diet in any way other than not to eat super spicy foods. It's all up to us, folks. The doctors are not going to help up us much with prevention, YET! I'm thinking that a change will have to eventually take place in medicine!

0
D238a1b53d45a4f44ecf8eb6dae42d9f

on January 17, 2013
at 09:04 AM

I want to believe Lundell. Being a women and having had a bypass at the age of 39. Why does nobody takes the concept he describes seriously and do more research on the topic? Do cardiologist's keep us in the dark... or are they also in the dark?

0
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 27, 2012
at 01:09 PM

Excellent find GroveGal to counter the OP's find. Care to share a link with your info?

Otherwise, the removing of his license sounds like the response of a cult to members who say things the "leaders" deem heretical.

A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

(120)

on March 27, 2012
at 11:33 PM

Thank you Anondson. Throwing the baby out with the bath water because of a Fox appearance seems a little extreme. The least people can do is dig deeply to make an informed decision. They may find themselves applauding and passing it on to family and friends who might applaud, too.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 27, 2012
at 08:17 PM

The equal travesty is that many in the Paleo/primal/WAPF communities are well aware of the nonsense aimed at doctors and researchers who speak against CW. But because he appeared on Fox they are ready to kick him off the island.

A93aeac1bb921d5a62360936593ed622

(120)

on March 27, 2012
at 04:16 PM

Hi Anondson - here's a link that is a letter from Dr. Lundell written when this occurred. http://greatcholesterollie.com/letter.pdf I know Dr. Lundell and was privy to these events as they unfolded. The travesty many people are missing is this happens to good doctors who speak out. Dr. Lundell is one of many.

-1
7ba8b808e17599930d428f131a91332e

on April 24, 2013
at 07:25 PM

Hmmm...........You don't think that maybe "some" would try to dis-credit Dr Lundell because his points might hurt pharmaceutical sales of Statin drugs, now do you all? Naive idiots!!!!

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