5

votes

Which Saturated Fats Are Ok for someone with ultra-High Cholesterol

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 31, 2011 at 6:35 AM

My Cholesterol is 506, HDL 30, LDL 450 and Tri 131. At 5'9, 180lbs, Athletic Male

I had been consuming a large amount of fat from - Heavy Cream&Dairy, Beef, Chicken, Bacon and Coconut oil/milk and EGGS.

I am eliminating Cream and Dairy from my diet. Keeping chicken (and olive oil, nuts). Which other fats should I keep or eliminate, whatever is kept is going to be eaten either every or almost every day. Which of the other fats will lower LDL and or raise HDL?

Please, only respond if you know what you are talking about and learned that information from a legitimate source, personal experience backed by science, etc. This is serious as I am trying to avoid STATIN drugs and I need to eat something other than veggies.

Id like to be able to eat everything but the dairy fat( I dont understand how dairy fat is different ), however, it suddenly does not feel right to eat bacon with a 506 Cholesterol even though most of the fat is monounsaturated.

78972387772c994caa78513a83978437

(2290)

on March 25, 2012
at 10:48 PM

Anxiously awaiting the changes you've made and the results.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on March 11, 2012
at 04:40 AM

Are you eating pastured fats? Hypercholestremia responds to Paleo. http://www.paleoforlife.org/success/hypercholesterolemia

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 11, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Please let us know what you find out, Bill!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 10, 2012
at 05:06 AM

Wondering if you had an update on this?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 02, 2012
at 12:12 AM

So I wonder, what idiot thinks a diet that clearly misses one of the **known** nutrients (B-12) can possibly be complete considering how little we know about nutrition?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 01, 2012
at 09:58 PM

Why is it oxidized? And dose is everything.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on January 01, 2012
at 04:39 AM

I wouldn't recommend low-fat dairy - it's oxidized cholesterol - way worse that can cause atherosclerosis and cancer (in animal studies)!

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 09:01 PM

You said 1 year ago you had better numbers, what were you eating back then?

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:21 PM

did you mean you would not be doing high -fat paleo and would not be ifing.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:14 PM

Hah, can't believe you remember my gallbladder issue. Yes, my doctors told me I wouldn't be able to handle fat but I haven't had any digestive issues even when I go really crazy. I keep everything pretty moderate in most of the time, ~50g fat/day.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:12 PM

The gallbladder was there for a reason, when hunter-gatherers ate a high fat meal after a kill and when one fat meal a day would have been common. Removing it in modern times has been rationalized thinking that we don't eat like that anymore: i.e., low fat and 3 square meals. If I didn't have a GB, I would not be doing hig-carb Paleo and I would not be IFing.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Basically high carb Paleo and lean mea Paleo like Cordain. I agree w/this. He can confrim this w/gene testing if he really wants to do high fat (low carb) Paleo. But you two are both missing a gallbladder. You could both not be ideal for high SAFA Paleo because of that: I'm sure you heard an earful from your docs, so I won't repeat. But the high cancer rate on the right side bothers me: that's based on people doing SAD or low fat diets. How much worse it would be when you do not restrict fat?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on December 31, 2011
at 07:40 PM

yes. as backwards as it sounds (since eggs are so good), I would lower the egg consumption too. In fact, I did. Some people can eat 12 a day and all it does it skyrocket their HDL. But for me, a dozen+ eggs per week did not help. 6/day consistently is a LOT of eggs.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:55 PM

We're not all created equal when it comes to how we metabolize and deal with dietary fat and cholesterol. I think others are right on suggesting looking at other underlying conditions that might be aggravating your blood lipids, in addition to dietary causes as you're exploring now.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on December 31, 2011
at 02:00 PM

Get your thyroid fully checked out stat! That high a cholesterol could mean anything from hypothyroid to familial hypercholestremia.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on December 31, 2011
at 09:31 AM

I believe FED talked about this a while back, I think he kept pastured ruminant fat like lamb and beef but dropped just about everything else.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 07:25 AM

I seem to remember something about dietary cholesterol raising cholesterol in certain people. Something to look into possibly.

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6 Answers

9
Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

on December 31, 2011
at 07:32 PM

Okay here goes. I'm afraid I might lose some popularity for this.

Quoting from Lyle Mcdonald:

"The anti-saturated fat people are idiots, the pro-saturated fat people are idiots, it's more complex than that. Whether saturated fat is good bad or indifferent depends on a host of factors including bodyfat, activity, calorie balance, [my addition: genetics] etc. someone eating a lot of saturated fat who is fat, inactive, smokes, etc. will have health problems."

and again:

"Dietary cholesterol has little to no impact on blood cholesterol in most [my emphasis] people and blood cholesterol is massively well regulated. Saturated fat intake has a far larger role on blood cholesterol levels."

So, when I said genetics are a bitch I didn't mean you had familial hypercholesteremia. That wouldn't even explain the low HDL or the excessive Triglycerides. However, whereas some people get away with high saturated fat intakes without blood lipid problems, I think in your case thats not the case.

Travis recommended dropping dairy fat due to the significant presence of 2 particular cholesterol raising fatty acids. In almost all foods however, saturated fats come in a variety of types and although Travis is correct, I think it would be wiser rather than eliminate dairy fat, to limit saturated fats across the board. To be clear I am not saying to be afraid of saturated fats or eliminate them completely. Rather, I think exerting a bit more restraint would be prudent and relatively painless.

Similarly, I recall hearing somewhere about how dietary cholesterol can significantly change blood cholesterol in some people. I think you might be one of these people. So you might look into lowering egg consumption. In any case, eggs have significant saturated fat.

Beef is good for you, I don't deny it. However, even lean cuts have significant saturated fats. I don't know how much you're consuming now, but I would check how much you consume.

Soluble fiber is good for you for a variety of reasons. Freeing up sat. fat calories will allow more fruits, veggies, tubers etc.

Bacon, mostly monounsaturated fat, but significantly saturated. I would limit this.

More activity will not hurt and can possibly help. I know you're already active, but little things like going on a 20min jog a few times per week are good for you, if only mentally and to burn a few calories. [Please no comments on chronic cardio being the devil].

I would make sure you are getting fish oils.

Tl;dr my suggestions:

  1. Lower eggs. 6/day might be a bit excessive. Try 2-3/day
  2. No need to drop cream/dairy completely. Replace with lower fat substitutes (whole or even 1-2% over cream)
  3. Choose leaner cuts of beef if possible. Limit beef to 1x/day or .5x/day.
  4. Replace the above lost calories with things like fruits/veggies/tubers/monounsaturated fats, extra virgin olive oil is a favorite of mine.
  5. Lower bacon consumption, lots of monounsaturated, but signifcant saturated as well.
  6. Short term fix: diet. You are already lean, and you cannot keep this up very long, but caloric deficits generally help blood cholesterol.
  7. More activity. I know you're already active, consider adding more cardio like a morning jog or something. Find something easy you enjoy and can maintain that will permanently increase your activity. Jogging, hiking, biking, swimming, whatever.
  8. Omega 3s. Make sure you get some. Fish oil is the cheapest source.

So I wouldn't go all curraaazy and change everything. Rather, try out some suggestions, stick to it for a month, get retested.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on December 31, 2011
at 07:40 PM

yes. as backwards as it sounds (since eggs are so good), I would lower the egg consumption too. In fact, I did. Some people can eat 12 a day and all it does it skyrocket their HDL. But for me, a dozen+ eggs per week did not help. 6/day consistently is a LOT of eggs.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 01, 2012
at 09:58 PM

Why is it oxidized? And dose is everything.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:12 PM

The gallbladder was there for a reason, when hunter-gatherers ate a high fat meal after a kill and when one fat meal a day would have been common. Removing it in modern times has been rationalized thinking that we don't eat like that anymore: i.e., low fat and 3 square meals. If I didn't have a GB, I would not be doing hig-carb Paleo and I would not be IFing.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Basically high carb Paleo and lean mea Paleo like Cordain. I agree w/this. He can confrim this w/gene testing if he really wants to do high fat (low carb) Paleo. But you two are both missing a gallbladder. You could both not be ideal for high SAFA Paleo because of that: I'm sure you heard an earful from your docs, so I won't repeat. But the high cancer rate on the right side bothers me: that's based on people doing SAD or low fat diets. How much worse it would be when you do not restrict fat?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on January 01, 2012
at 04:39 AM

I wouldn't recommend low-fat dairy - it's oxidized cholesterol - way worse that can cause atherosclerosis and cancer (in animal studies)!

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:21 PM

did you mean you would not be doing high -fat paleo and would not be ifing.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:14 PM

Hah, can't believe you remember my gallbladder issue. Yes, my doctors told me I wouldn't be able to handle fat but I haven't had any digestive issues even when I go really crazy. I keep everything pretty moderate in most of the time, ~50g fat/day.

6
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on December 31, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Avocado would be a good staple fat for you. I realize the question asks about saturated fat but I mention it because you said you're keeping olive oil and appear to be looking for any fats.

http://ebm.rsmjournals.com/content/104/1/45.abstract http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/4/311.short

Sardines/mackerel are a great source of omega 3s and should help things. http://www.ajcn.org/content/54/3/438.short

And I'd start adding turmeric to everything you eat

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16963807 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286306000775 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20163327

Also, I wouldn't eat too many nuts. If you do eat them I'd suggest mixing them up a bit.... macadamias, brazils, almonds, etc.

As for why dairy is different, Travis laid it out really well here... http://paleohacks.com/questions/36855/i-think-i-may-have-figured-out-why-some-of-us-have-really-high-ldl#axzz1i5yONQzl

3
3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on December 31, 2011
at 12:36 PM

As said before, thyroid function is very important in relationship to heart disease.

But worrying about your cholesterol level is not the problem. Systemic Inflammation of your blood vessels and body is what you should be looking at. Processed carbs previously consumed still has your body inflammed. Eliminate absolutely all wheat and sugar and you will be fine.

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/cholesterol-is-not-bad/

Saturated fats..animal protein and fat, coconut oil, no soybean oil, canola oil, safflower oil, no peanuts, no vegetable oils is what one should consume.

Read everything you can on this board about Jack Kronk's problems.

And you should really purchase Robb Wolf's book The Paleo Solution. And watch these videos of Robb. http://paleoweightlosscoach.com/2150/paleo-and-cholesterol/ After this one video, there are other videos of Robb to watch...as to what to eat.

Reducing cholesterol levels with statins is only addressing cholesterol...not the underlying problem that causes build up of cholesterol.

And when you get your VAP or NMR you will know if your LDL is composed of large bouyant particles that do no harm or the small dense particles that cause plaque to be laid down in the blood vessels and arterys. At this point of your paleo journey, I would bet the house that you have a high preponderance of small dense LDL particles. Everyone eating SAD has small dense LDL...thus this is why we see so much obesity, heart disease, strokes, cancer in the US today.

1
E753cf7753e7be889ca68b1a4203483f

on January 01, 2012
at 11:55 AM

Think you have FH. Your TG are a little high, indication of excess abdominal fat, but not necessarily so. Could be that you are consuming more calories that ideal for you. Normally blood lipids will be remarkably constant toward dietary changes (statistically speaking), so I don't think it's likely that your values will be halved or doubled, no matter what dietary regime you choose to follow. What kind of diet do you follow? Are you very low carb?

0
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on March 11, 2012
at 02:38 AM

Unfortunately, I have no news to report, scheduled for labs in a few weeks, other than that, not much has happened. My care is through Veterans Affairs

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 11, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Please let us know what you find out, Bill!

78972387772c994caa78513a83978437

(2290)

on March 25, 2012
at 10:48 PM

Anxiously awaiting the changes you've made and the results.

-1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 01, 2012
at 10:45 PM

Eat a low fat, oil-free vegan diet for 3 weeks and get your lipids checked again. You'll be amazed. Just try it.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 02, 2012
at 12:12 AM

So I wonder, what idiot thinks a diet that clearly misses one of the **known** nutrients (B-12) can possibly be complete considering how little we know about nutrition?

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