3

votes

Hacking my lack of weight loss (or perhaps my weight loss neuroses)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 24, 2010 at 9:07 PM

Hi all! I've been utilizing the Paleo/Primal principles for about 6 months. I am a 46 year old female, currently carrying about 32% fat (ugh, I hate to even type it).

My issue is that I have done exceptionally well maintaining my current weight/size, but I've yet to move the scale downwards at all. I Crossfit about 4 times a week and occasionally have another training run thrown in during the week. I've been a Crossfitter for over 3 years, so I doubt I have put on much additional muscle in the last 6 months. I'm just unsure if I'm applying the principles as well as I could, if I'm not eating enough calories (or too many calories), if I should go even lower carb (per PaNu/Dr. Harris), or if my metabolism is just all broke to hell from a lifetime of dieting and the best I could ever hope for is equilibrium.

For the past 6 months, I've tracked my intake using Fitday and I generally hit about 1700 cals per day, trying to stay between 50-70g carbs, about 100-110g protein, and then the rest fat. And on that, I've been able to stay within a 2 pound tolerance of the same weight. In general, I have a good level of satiety being off grains/fructose and having increased fat. I've started looking at Harris' approach of going to about 80% fat and <5% carbs, having one-two major meals in a day to satiety, and then engaging in intermittent fasting. I've only just started this, so can't tell how successful I will be yet.

Basically, I have a lot of faith in my ability to maintain weight, I just don't have a lot of confidence in losing fat/weight at the moment. So my major questions would be:

  • has anyone else experienced good success on the Paleo/Primal/PaNu approach and if so, what did you do to be successful? Was the loss incredibly gradual and was super-strict compliance required to achieve success? (i.e., am I just being impatient)

  • is there a way I can tell whether I'm hitting the sweet spot on calories? I'm not sure I trust my satiety switch any longer.

  • is there a way I can tell if my metabolism is just totally wonky and I should just give up on the dream of losing 9% of body fat? :(

Thanks everyone!

83d6a06c93bb3490dbca339cbbb63385

(526)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:47 PM

Vivapaleo: that is not sustainable.

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:15 AM

Thanks Paul...I like that phrase "'there's nothing else to do with my hands'-variety" as the qualifier. I do feel like if my tummy is physically contracting, it might be time to eat. =/

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 25, 2010
at 09:53 PM

To second Gilliebean's suggestion below: switching between higher-calorie and lower-calorie days instead of long fasts. IFing is not for everybody. You know, maybe if you were the sort of person who ate four times a day before then eating twice a day will do the trick. I just think if you're really, really, hungry, then you should eat -- if the hunger is definitely not of the "there's nothing else to do with my hands" variety. Just thoughts, just my bias, just trying to add another voice to the conversation.

1a8020e101199de55c1b3b726f342321

(1973)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:28 PM

Lemon and Tarnopolsky established a long time ago that athletes need > 1g/kg of protein per day. Eating more will not "stress the body" or anything of the sort.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:27 PM

I did workout and summarily lost little muscle or strength. Use it or lose it

3f61ba25dff05b513c7769a22408169a

on August 25, 2010
at 03:02 PM

Thanks for the detailed information.

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on August 25, 2010
at 02:14 PM

S-A is right, IME. I primarily ate very lean protein. I also ate two fruits a day and about 400g of green leafy veggies, cucumbers, radishes and celery. Also it was very uncomfortable until I got into ketosis, so a couple of days of serious hunger.

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on August 25, 2010
at 02:05 PM

I lost 40 lbs on a PSMF. I did not exercise much, and definitely lost muscle as well as fat. I'm now crossfitting, and I'm shocked at how many carbs I need to eat to fuel the regaining of that muscle. I still eat a lot of lean protein. If I up fat instead of protein, I don't feel like working out. My point here is that everyone is different. If you are interested in the PSMF, check out Lyle McDonald's "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook." It's WFM and a lot of other people. The Drs Eades most recent book is basically a PSMF, but based on the dozens of failures on low-carb forums, I'd pass.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on August 25, 2010
at 11:42 AM

i was gonna ask what her fat source was too... if its dairy, replace it with Melissa's suggestion of coconut milk and oil plus perhaps grassfed lard if you have access. dairy has some unique properties that make it different from other fats it would seem.

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:57 AM

Sounds very sensible and well done to you and your wife, that's a big loss for both of you

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:47 AM

Jae - IMO and IME are very fun abbreviations! ;)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:45 AM

Also, try calorie cycling. Perhaps go for a few days at 1300 and then have a higher calorie day at 1700. This might be better to try first than IF. Just my thoughts.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:44 AM

Er, ketosis is triggered by gluconeogenesis in the liver pulling oxaloacetate out of the Krebs cycle, resulting in a buildup of acetyl-CoA. Most amino acids are metabolized into Krebs cycle intermediates, so a sufficient intake of protein would allow both gluconeogenesis and Krebs cycle to function, meaning no build up of acetyl-CoA and no ketosis.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:08 AM

Or even less than that... very easy to get stressed out with daily weigh-ins. At least, IMO and IME.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:35 AM

LadyAdmin, Stephen-Aegis makes a very good point! :)

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:32 AM

When cutting heavy calories, you MUST maintain minimum protein or you will eat muscle and feel like utter crap

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:12 AM

I'll have to see how elevated fat with lower calories will feel. When I was previously doing deep calorie restriction, I was trying to stick to 1300 calories a day, but it was on SAD and I would get RAVENOUS.

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:08 AM

I don't currently do any long, slow activity. And I love a good walk! I'll have to add it back into the mix.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:38 AM

LadyA, I would suggest that you weigh yourself once per day at the same time each day (ie right when you wake up each morning) and no more.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:37 AM

Very helpful!!!

286a4ff7c362241c5c4b020df4972212

(1288)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:33 AM

I second this - 100g of protein is way too much if you want to drop the weight - remember its about 1gm per kg of lean body mass - most of us are around 60kg of lean body mass or less. Having just spent the last 2 months not changing size or dropping wt - I dropped my protein to 30 - 40 gms a day and upped my non dairy fat ( dairy makes my insulin spike and trying to avoid this ) I only have one meal a day ( all I want ) and having about 1000- 1200 cals a day finally losing cm off my girth again and dropping about 1kg a wk - feel great!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 24, 2010
at 10:36 PM

Excess protein does not prevent ketosis. That is a myth.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 24, 2010
at 09:45 PM

I would have a full thyroid panel T3 T2 TSH. A1C would also be interesting. My own protein intake as a 5'2" woman is 30-60 grams a day last time I checked. I think the best way to get protein down is to emphasize coconut milk and oil. But remember, this whole diet is an experiment- some lose with dairy, others gain. Same for high-fat vs. med-carb. I would give Panu at least a month and see what your weight loss is.

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18 Answers

6
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on August 24, 2010
at 11:28 PM

my 105 lb loss really skyrocketed when I did a protein sparing modified fast.

basically limited calories, mostly protein, and high intensity exercise to reprogram what my body thinks I need for energy.

1000-1500 calories, mostly meat.

3-4 days of 20min worth of sprint or resistance exercise work.

doubled the speed at which i was losing weight, went from 2-4lbs a week to 8-10lbs a week.

This was NOT comfortable until after I was in Ketosis. Let me repeat that.

This was a very bad idea outside of ketosis, my body rebelled, once I was in a fat burning mode in my body, it was very easy.

I drank Green Tea, Black Tea, or water whenever I got hungry, sometimes it went away, if not then, I ate my meal for that day then.

I focused on 1 large meal a day mostly meat. It came when I was still ravashed after drinking copious liquid and waiting 20+ minutes. No matter what time of day, when I was hungry, that was when I took my 1 meal.

Generally it fell during evening, dinner time. But some days it was Breakfast. somedays lunch.

Now that the weight is off, its incredibly easy to maintain my weight... I just had to program myself to this lower setpoint. Ive been here a very breezy 1.5 years now.

Best of luck in your journey.

Maintaining is 10000% easier than losing :)

Work hard to lose, then love life after.

3f61ba25dff05b513c7769a22408169a

on August 25, 2010
at 03:02 PM

Thanks for the detailed information.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:37 AM

Very helpful!!!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:27 PM

I did workout and summarily lost little muscle or strength. Use it or lose it

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on August 25, 2010
at 02:05 PM

I lost 40 lbs on a PSMF. I did not exercise much, and definitely lost muscle as well as fat. I'm now crossfitting, and I'm shocked at how many carbs I need to eat to fuel the regaining of that muscle. I still eat a lot of lean protein. If I up fat instead of protein, I don't feel like working out. My point here is that everyone is different. If you are interested in the PSMF, check out Lyle McDonald's "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook." It's WFM and a lot of other people. The Drs Eades most recent book is basically a PSMF, but based on the dozens of failures on low-carb forums, I'd pass.

3
F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on August 25, 2010
at 05:16 AM

This is coming from a young male (albeit a formerly overweight SAD one), so take this advice with that in mind.

1) Eat protein for hormonal satiety and vegetables for physical satiety. I found this kept me from feeling hungry even in a fairly deep caloric deficit. I only went high-fat paleo after burning off my extra bodily fat, but I find that much better now. Maybe I would have lost weight even faster going high-fat instead of high-protein from the beginning? Definitely go VLC and just-enough protein if you're metabolically damaged.

2) Intermittent fasting. I do once/day on average, with days of 0-2 meals. Richard at Free The Animal does two-day fasts each week to spur his weight loss. In my experience, the single large meal can stop thyroid down-regulation even in caloric deficit, but I would keep a close eye on this. I would not fast longer than 2 days, since muscle starts to play a bigger role from then on.

3) Fasted HIT. HIT is the best HGH releaser, and training fasted will greatly increase that release. I've heard sprints are the best for this, but don't remember the source. Strength training (esp. squats) to build muscle and provide HIT stimulus is also good. Recovery is important, so I would only do this a couple times/week, and drop CrossFit. You don't want cortisol issues to get in the way.

Long, slow distance work primarily burns fat (esp. when insulin is low), but you have to do quite a bit to make a significant difference. I am an avid hiker, and a day of hiking can burn thousands of calories, so that is something to consider. It depends how much time you have on your hands, and if you enjoy doing it!

This combination should keep insulin low, and norepinephrine and HGH high, which are the major keys to fat mobilization. I can reliably lose a couple lbs/week with this combination. But again, this is coming from a young male now in mostly good health (high thyroid and testosterone), so YMMV.

2
47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:40 AM

I agree that it's best not to think too much about the scale.

But, if you insist on doing a weigh-in every day and you're going to do it anyway, then you can prevent a lot of swings in mood by taking ten-day averages of the daily figure. I know, I know, everyone will say that this is just adding extra obsessiveness about weight, but it's not: that number will change a lot less than your daily number and you will be less prone to demoralization from an increase in weight relative to the day before. And day-to-day changes in weight don't mean much anyway. So take your daily weight, but ignore it, and look at a longer-term figure instead.

2
58a49b7e6356bd3eaaefed676445b720

on August 24, 2010
at 09:51 PM

Go to the diabetic section of your drug store (where they sell the glucometers) and buy some ketosis urinalysis strips. They're branded as "Ketostix" sometimes. Keep cutting back on carbs until the strips indicate that you're in ketosis. You might have to go below 50g to get there. If you can stay in ketosis for a couple of weeks, I can almost guarantee you'll see fat loss.

I also agree with Melissa that that is a lot of protein. It might even be enough to prevent you from getting into ketosis, so keep that in mind if you decide to try. Good luck.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 24, 2010
at 10:36 PM

Excess protein does not prevent ketosis. That is a myth.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:44 AM

Er, ketosis is triggered by gluconeogenesis in the liver pulling oxaloacetate out of the Krebs cycle, resulting in a buildup of acetyl-CoA. Most amino acids are metabolized into Krebs cycle intermediates, so a sufficient intake of protein would allow both gluconeogenesis and Krebs cycle to function, meaning no build up of acetyl-CoA and no ketosis.

1
3573f7a18ee620179fda184c7d8b7242

(241)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:51 AM

I've been looking at Martin Berkhan's Leangains approach recently. He indicates that, in his experience, women generally don't do as well with longer fasts and that 12- to 14-hour fasts seem to work better for women. So, basically, I'm echoing the idea that long fasts may not be for everyone and there are other ways to play around with the concept. Your background could've been written by me - 32% bodyfat for a long, long time on low-carb primal. Crossfit. Tried VLC, tried high fat, tried 24-hour IFs, etc. etc. Good luck, I'm interested to hear what works for you. Keep us updated.

1
1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on August 25, 2010
at 07:12 AM

After several years on and off of paleo, I've convinced myself that fasting is the most high impact way of losing fat. Sure, you can lose weight by correcting your diet and exercise, but intelligent IF really speeds it up. I've lost 40 pounds the last five months easily with a condensed eating window (roughly midday to seven pm) and one weekly fast, albeit a long one (40 hours, which was tough at first and I wouldn't recommend - 24 to 30 hours should be enough). Even on weeks where I've had several slips, I'll stay flat or lose a small amount, and on strict weeks I'll lose 2-3 pounds. And it's all pretty easy.

1
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 25, 2010
at 03:18 AM

I think it's different for everybody. Back when I was doing Atkins, mild ketosis was plenty for me to lose about 1 to 2 pounds per week. I ate about 40g carbs per day.

Right now, I am doing the same but this time I am eating fruit and am around 100g carb per day. The previous time, I just assumed lower carb was better than moderate carb for weight loss. But maybe that wasn't particularly true for me as I am noticing the same levels of nonaddictive eating, good satiation, and natural lessening of calorie intake as I did on the lower carb technique. Time will tell I guess. The other difference this time is I am eating more paleo, which means less fabricated foods. Before, the litmus test was only that it be lowcarb, but now I am paying a lot more attention to the healthfulness of the food as well and making more effort to eat saturated fat (yum!).

Anyway, right now, I am eating healthy and losing weight so I figure I will see how far that goes before making any changes. I am also feeling very good and recovering quickly from strain. Our company where I work is moving to a new location and this morning I picked up a rather heavy power drill and started unscrewing wall board to take with us to the new place. I kept thinking I would eventually get too tired to continue holding out the drill, climbing up and down the ladder, and dragging heavy wall board around, but the guys are short handed and overloaded so I decided I would help out as long as I could. I really surprised myself today because I found out I was able to continue for nine hours! The drill actually began to feel lighter as the day passed and I got used to handling it. Heh, some of the guys couldn't even keep up! ;-P Tonight I feel tired, but not too tired to continue tomorrow. -Eva

1
F0828db526034a383d05ed61f6c65a11

on August 25, 2010
at 01:40 AM

I do paleo/zone. started this year at the beginning, i have lost over 50#. My wife has done the same, and her weight loss is identical to mine. we are pretty strict on the paleo with 2-4 cheat meals a week. we also crossfit on M-W F&S. sometimes we do a WOD on sunday (the typical 3-1 pattern). I have been doing CF for roughly 3 years, wasnt losing much weight, and my performance blew, but since we started eating right everything has just fallen in line. we do not fast at all, stick to the 30/30/40 (protein, fat, carb) model following the paleo rules (no salt[except on workout days very lite salt], no dairy, no vinegar, no legumes, no sweetners, no paleoized deserts[like almond flour pancakes]). when we cheat it is open season, anything goes. our biggest downfall is probably too much fruit, but as you can see we are losing weight and becoming athletes. I am 41 (lifetime of abuse), and my wife is 31 (been over weight her whole life). I eat 18-21 blocks per day and my wife eats 14 blocks. thats it, i dont know how many calories that is, but i have a feeling that is is around 1500-1600. some reasons for our continued success is that we are not dieting, we arent doing tricks, we are changing the way we eat, and making it something that is realistic. when we arent cheating we are eating things that we like and enjoy eating. I also like pizza and cheeseburgers, so i get to eat some of that too (cheat meal). I used to like to eat cookies, cake, and ice cream, but for some reason i dont really crave cookies and ice cream anymore, . . . cake yes, i like a piece of cake from time to time (a cheat meal includes a desert as part of the meal). anyway, . . . my advice would be to just try and change your diet, and eat to real satisfaction, and not over eating. you can do it

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:57 AM

Sounds very sensible and well done to you and your wife, that's a big loss for both of you

1
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:56 AM

I'm 5' 9", 31, female, 150 lbs. I eat about 1200 to 1500 cal / day. I eat about 60% cal from fat, 30% cal from protein, and 10% cal from carbs.

I got myself from 185 (41% body fat) to 165 by following Weight Watchers' Good Health Guidelines (limited calories, increased movement and decreased insulin production from my meals). I could go into detail about why I think WW works for a good head start... But WW stalled me out at 165. No kidding, right? Anyway, the first 20 lbs took me one year.

Then, I followed the zero starches, grains, sugars, and fruit approach for six weeks and got down to 155. Then after a period of "rest," I powered down again with the no sugar, no grains, no legumes and no starches (carbs under 50g) and got myself to 145 (23% body fat). Yay! That all took about nine months.

Right now I'm at about 150, and I eat pretty liberal paleo. I include dairy and eat some naturally fermented grains (a la WAPF) from time to time. But I'm maintaining this weight! Yay! And have done so for a year or so.

I should mention that I'm pretty active. I've run a marathon and a half-marathon and last year I did a sprint triathlon. So movement (long slow movement) is very helpful. As well as strength training.

For you... I think you should be happy with one to two lbs per week of weight loss. I think guys can handle faster weight loss but I think super quick weight loss can mess with women's hormones in a worse way. I don't have research on that. It's just a gut feeling.

And as I said in a comment, only weigh yourself once per day AT THE SAME TIME EACH DAY. That's it. No more.

Also, I think perhaps you could tinker with eating less calories (but upping the fat percentage).

And finally, are you doing any long slow moment? Are you walking? Hiking? Biking? Doing a long walk twice a week or once a day may help.

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:12 AM

I'll have to see how elevated fat with lower calories will feel. When I was previously doing deep calorie restriction, I was trying to stick to 1300 calories a day, but it was on SAD and I would get RAVENOUS.

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on August 25, 2010
at 02:14 PM

S-A is right, IME. I primarily ate very lean protein. I also ate two fruits a day and about 400g of green leafy veggies, cucumbers, radishes and celery. Also it was very uncomfortable until I got into ketosis, so a couple of days of serious hunger.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:35 AM

LadyAdmin, Stephen-Aegis makes a very good point! :)

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:32 AM

When cutting heavy calories, you MUST maintain minimum protein or you will eat muscle and feel like utter crap

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 25, 2010
at 01:08 AM

I don't currently do any long, slow activity. And I love a good walk! I'll have to add it back into the mix.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:45 AM

Also, try calorie cycling. Perhaps go for a few days at 1300 and then have a higher calorie day at 1700. This might be better to try first than IF. Just my thoughts.

1
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 24, 2010
at 10:44 PM

Your plan sounds optimal to me.

I didn't successfully lose weight until I went to a diet of only meat, although in my 20's, staying under 30g/day was sufficient (I'm 37 now). I'm almost at goal, and I do lose faster when I IF.

I wouldn't worry about your protein levels at all, unless you're going over about 30-35%. Even 110g at 4 Kcals/g is only about 25% of your calories.

1
6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

on August 24, 2010
at 09:37 PM

Hi Melissa! I'm 5'4 1/2" tall.

Is there a specific thyroid test I should request? I did have a basic blood panel done about the time I started Paleo in ernest (not a fasting panel though) and all the major indicators came back within normal tolerance.

I have also added an Omega-3 supplement, a D3 supplement, and even a kelp supplement recently.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on August 25, 2010
at 11:42 AM

i was gonna ask what her fat source was too... if its dairy, replace it with Melissa's suggestion of coconut milk and oil plus perhaps grassfed lard if you have access. dairy has some unique properties that make it different from other fats it would seem.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 24, 2010
at 09:45 PM

I would have a full thyroid panel T3 T2 TSH. A1C would also be interesting. My own protein intake as a 5'2" woman is 30-60 grams a day last time I checked. I think the best way to get protein down is to emphasize coconut milk and oil. But remember, this whole diet is an experiment- some lose with dairy, others gain. Same for high-fat vs. med-carb. I would give Panu at least a month and see what your weight loss is.

1
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 24, 2010
at 09:26 PM

What is your height? That's quite a lot of protein. I would definitely decrease that and up the fat. That will mean more energy for you, less stress on your body.

I would also recommend getting your thyroid checked.

My parents are around your age doing primal for weightloss and I do think it can be much harder for women. My father lost dramatic amounts quickly, my mother took a longer time.

286a4ff7c362241c5c4b020df4972212

(1288)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:33 AM

I second this - 100g of protein is way too much if you want to drop the weight - remember its about 1gm per kg of lean body mass - most of us are around 60kg of lean body mass or less. Having just spent the last 2 months not changing size or dropping wt - I dropped my protein to 30 - 40 gms a day and upped my non dairy fat ( dairy makes my insulin spike and trying to avoid this ) I only have one meal a day ( all I want ) and having about 1000- 1200 cals a day finally losing cm off my girth again and dropping about 1kg a wk - feel great!

1a8020e101199de55c1b3b726f342321

(1973)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:28 PM

Lemon and Tarnopolsky established a long time ago that athletes need > 1g/kg of protein per day. Eating more will not "stress the body" or anything of the sort.

83d6a06c93bb3490dbca339cbbb63385

(526)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:47 PM

Vivapaleo: that is not sustainable.

0
Ea776df66c8277321b167e2ee3f22574

on February 03, 2011
at 02:31 AM

I just ran across this post, wondering the same things for myself. Any update on how the lower protein plan worked for you? Did you change anything else that you think made a difference?

Thanks!

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2010
at 09:52 PM

perhaps you should pay attention not to the overall amount of calories consumed or macronutrient composition of your diet but rather to a meal timing, thus trying something similar to the "leangains" approach

0
C90eecdd76cf57a387095fa49de23807

(960)

on August 31, 2010
at 03:40 PM

I don't think that you erred much on your protein calculation. You were eating 100 g/day, and so long as you weight about 120 lbs or more, you are within the upper limits of many LC protein guidelines-- such as Mark Sisson's, who recommends 1g/lb of lean body weight (whereas the PaNU calculation you're citing recommends 1g/kg). I don't know if that's specifically for weight loss goals. Most conventional wisdom also cites 1g/kg.

I think that if you want to be in Ketosis its important to monitor your protein. But if you are actively exercising and building muscle then protein can't do you any harm. I have even read some bloggers (check out www.leangains.com) who believe protein is primarily responsible for the elusive "metabolic advantage" we're all looking for, up to a few hundred calories per day. I wouldn't stake my life on it, but it is interesting.

And Hey, if you're hungry after not eating for FOURTEEN HOURS, your metabolism is not broken, it wants FOOD. And that's OK. I think the ability to fast depends a LOT on one's previous diet, way of life, and hormonal capabilities. I think fasting is most helpful for people who have never really restricted calories before. But for those of us who have, we may have decreased basal metabolic rates, which just makes it more difficult to lose.

In any case, something that seemed reasonable to me while trying to lose weight was that if I felt hungry, I was probably burning fat (or some form of energy). I lost 30 lbs in 3 months. I started at 130 lbs. So it wasn't the healthiest diet in the world (also--high carb--actually I ate nothing BUT carbs), but it worked. So if I were in your position, I would try to feel hungry for a couple hours before eating each meal, or most meals. That way you're sure to burn up something. If you want.

Have you done thyroid checks? I'm not a fan of thyroid meds, but at this time in your life, you might want to just get a base line understanding of your T3/T4 etc and check in on your metabolism. Its quite common for metabolism to decrease at the onset of menopause. Which requires a decreased caloric intake to maintain weight. Unfortunately. But I also believe a primal diet should help mitigate these effects, though my only knowledge in this area comes from my mothers' experiences, who is 55 and struggled with weight and caloric intake for decades, but is now completely paleo, sated, a comfortable size 2, and weaned off of her thyroid meds.

Goodness.

0
6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

on August 25, 2010
at 08:11 PM

Thanks everyone for the lively debate!

As a result, I went back to Harris' page on "How to Lose Weight," particularly his calculation for protein intake--.8-1g/Kg. Based on that, I've been eating almost TWICE his protein recommendation. I'm sure I got my original target from either a miscalculation or a misreading of some other source.

So today is my first day aiming for 80% fat with a target of 60g protein and about 1500cals. Using mostly coconut oil, coconut milk, and pastured butter to meet my fat target. A little pastured heavy cream to flavor my morning coffee, because that is a requirement for my sanity above all else. :)

Feeling ok so far, just craving a grass-fed burger, and tummy is rumbly. Will give it a few days to see if I'm pushing the range on the ketosis.

I swear I feel like my satiety switch is completely broken. Everyone talks about doing 24-40 hour fasts and my tummy is screaming at me at the 14 hour mark! Hopefully I will adapt to that as time and experience moves on.

6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

(799)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:15 AM

Thanks Paul...I like that phrase "'there's nothing else to do with my hands'-variety" as the qualifier. I do feel like if my tummy is physically contracting, it might be time to eat. =/

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 25, 2010
at 09:53 PM

To second Gilliebean's suggestion below: switching between higher-calorie and lower-calorie days instead of long fasts. IFing is not for everybody. You know, maybe if you were the sort of person who ate four times a day before then eating twice a day will do the trick. I just think if you're really, really, hungry, then you should eat -- if the hunger is definitely not of the "there's nothing else to do with my hands" variety. Just thoughts, just my bias, just trying to add another voice to the conversation.

0
6481788df76f391ba2746d9f1ad1e8f1

on August 25, 2010
at 12:04 AM

Thanks everyone for the input! Having the virtual support is comforting in its way.

I did purchase the ketostix tonight and for today it indicates I'm in mild ketosis (~15mg/dL). I assume for weight loss, I will want to push that upwards. I think I will try for greater PaNu compliance (i.e., increased fat) for two weeks and see if anything begins moving.

Currently, I'm taking my meals from about 11am-6pm, then fasting the rest of the time. I want to work up to fasting from 6pm to 6pm the following day, but I think there are a few transition days ahead of me on that.

Part of my neuroses is that I jump on the scale too often. Believe me, I've heard all the same info you all have--the scale is not an accurate measurement of your lean mass, if you weigh yourself too often it can set you up for a negative emotional response, etc. etc. I get it, I do. There's just something about the immediate feedback of the scale and if ever moves up instead of down, I tend to lose heart. I shall endeavour to focus on my macronutrients and less on the number on the scale. :)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 25, 2010
at 04:08 AM

Or even less than that... very easy to get stressed out with daily weigh-ins. At least, IMO and IME.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 12:38 AM

LadyA, I would suggest that you weigh yourself once per day at the same time each day (ie right when you wake up each morning) and no more.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 25, 2010
at 06:47 AM

Jae - IMO and IME are very fun abbreviations! ;)

0
Ce96fd4dbe23d75f17451b3d6a651bef

(10)

on August 24, 2010
at 10:24 PM

You say that you are fasting; how often and for how long? Perhaps an increase in duration or frequency would help.

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