10

votes

Are you discouraged by Art Devany's misstatements in Time magazine article?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 31, 2011 at 10:02 PM

He really didn't do the Paleo movement any favors by getting himself in a position to be so easily rebutted. Devany needs to stop putting himself out there as any sort of spokesperson for Paleo.

Your thoughts?

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2044343,00.html

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on July 10, 2013
at 05:37 PM

"Lucky for me, no one I know reads your little 'Time Magazine'!"

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 15, 2013
at 08:33 PM

Seconded. Journalists, the crappy kind pull all sorts of nasty stuff. They'll do whole interviews, then cut and paste out of context whenever they need something to "prove" a point. Best thing you can do is record the interview yourself, and if you feel the journalist misquoted/represented your views, post the audio online for all to hear. Make sure they agree to that ahead of time, you don't want to be sued by them, etc.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on January 13, 2013
at 01:29 PM

Chuckle, chuckle.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 13, 2013
at 02:11 AM

My grandma is 93 and is in great health on diet that contains grains and dairy. Maybe she can email you some health tips.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 23, 2011
at 12:34 AM

LOL that's pretty funny. I posted a Taoist quote once on my blog and got a very angry comment "There are at least 2000 volumes in the Taoist cannon and one suspects you are familiar with none of them. In fact I doubt that you can even read Chinese. So to use this one quote to substantiate your position only makes you look absurd. Perhaps you might considerconsulting the Taoist precepts before demonstrating your ignorance. Meat eaters don't really bother me much simply because they are digging their (early) graves with their forks. Fred"

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 22, 2011
at 10:05 PM

Truth! Mark Sisson's forum is swimming with foxy ladies.

463a85858508f1de7a34b548a0340844

(196)

on February 07, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Lighten up, CK. Seriously. I guess that advice applies to me as well, I must admit.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:21 AM

Yes, I get it. It's a parody. It should have been a tell-tale sign that his "friend Cami says" this. Well, my friend, um ... Rüdiger, says, that he doesn't like the whole Art Devany bashing lately on Paleo Hacks. He liked the community better when we were sticking to the facts of say discussing the latest strain of paleo gut bacteria instead of this whole weird gossiping / group dynamics kind of thing.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:18 AM

@Melissa: Neither a fan nor a female, although humorless sometimes, in particular when people use their admin rights to infer other peoples gender (I find you cute though, although for some disturbing reason in your pre-paleo donut pic).

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:17 AM

Yes, I get it. It's a parody. It should have been a tell-tale sign that his "friend Cami says" this. Well, my friend, um ... Rüdiger, says, that I don't like the whole Art Devany bashing lately on Paleo Hacks. I liked the community better when we were sticking to the facts of say discussing the latest strain of paleo gut bacteria instead of this whole weird gossiping / group dynamics kind of thing.

Aa1d5fbb9d8051538161c9a03afd384e

(226)

on February 06, 2011
at 11:46 PM

Agreed with Queen and Oliverh :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 06, 2011
at 06:59 PM

it's a joke Connie. Why does Art have so many humorless female fans?

6ae590a9f80a306e4fa4c78e00fb2bf7

(30)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:52 PM

I think it was a generalization of the way DeVany reacts to situations, CK. I have been on his site and seen his comments. He never fails to throw in a mention of how great his numbers are. Hell, it's the same way in his book. And bear in mind that I don't dislike the guy at all but am someone who doesn't care for his huge ego on display and the enabling of it by the sycophantic supporters who pay money to read his ramblings.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 06, 2011
at 11:43 AM

I have a subscription to his site. Could you please post the link to the alledged conversation you cited.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on February 06, 2011
at 03:02 AM

One thing I've noticed about people who are deeply involved in stochastic processes and stochastic differential equations is that many of them end up thinking they are the answer to everything in terms of mathematical modeling. I had a professor for one course who seemed to think his theory of jump diffusions in mathematical finance were the be all and end all of scientific progress and thinking. I suspect, but have no proof, that De Vany falls into this category.

016d898536232b3f4afeec4ad8e05115

(316)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:26 PM

Sorry, you have the wrong Neal, my mistakenly self satisfied sleuth.

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on February 04, 2011
at 10:22 PM

Where would be in this world if people were allowed to have similiar sounding names? Oh, wait..

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 04, 2011
at 06:28 PM

except he's not a scientist. As someone with training in econ who is trying to be a scientist, I'd say there is a large gulf between the two fields...

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on February 04, 2011
at 05:31 PM

it actually makes perfect sense to me. i came about this because i wanted to get off the yo-yo. got deeper into it because i wanted to get my father healthy again. self-preservation and love makes one do some serious searching for answers.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on February 04, 2011
at 10:19 AM

I agree about Masterjohn's review -- it's terrific!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:30 AM

"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history." - Aldous Huxley

0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:04 AM

He never was, only as Paleo expended did he jump on the ship and tried to steer it. He is only for himself. I use read his site and dropped it after his attack on Dr Atkins with old lies. Forget him.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

Um, that mummy was from a culture whose cooking method were the equivalent of smoking 6 packs a day.

0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

I never considered him Paleo/Fat freindly. Nor even low card friendly either

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 02, 2011
at 07:13 AM

well said, I agree

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 06:16 PM

maybe it should be asked as a separate thread, although I think there have been similar ones before. I personally don't need a leader figure, I just don't like Art de Vany assuming power, being immediately associated with this, not that I have anything against him; I just didn't come down this path through him.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on February 01, 2011
at 05:43 PM

Oprah's vegan now?!

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on February 01, 2011
at 05:03 PM

I keep current in the paleo-scene and have really had some personal views changed by getting a bit more info on one topic or another.

4ff24fb9a7d48305681487dfb8040a5e

(383)

on February 01, 2011
at 04:56 PM

7 billion are probably 6 billion too much. nature is all about balance, we have beaten nature...

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on February 01, 2011
at 03:38 PM

also maybe the media isn't receptive to our knowledge yet. example: oprah going vegan today.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 03:24 PM

ok thanks for that, does sound like it's all gone to his head a little.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 02:07 PM

Just found it, I misquoted a little :D actual quote “We do have a lot of sex for a 70-year-old couple. I had to close the door the other night, she was screaming so loud – she sings!” link to article http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/diet_and_fitness/article4523487.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2 it is from 2008.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 02:03 PM

I'll try and dig out the article for you, was in an english paper.

296b837795beec2ea6bfe5598e773a7e

(354)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:50 PM

History rarely repeats itself? That is a false statement kido.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

Yeah, Erwan is definitely the most attractive paleo spokesperson. I personally tend to like my men a little more neolithic for some reason...

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

History rarely repeats itself. It certainly rhymes though.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

@Tim: Great point about steering one to new understanding. It sounds like a Socratic debate (the intellectual fight to the death) where higher understanding comes out of two biased sides arguing.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:34 PM

@Tom & oliverh: What would the qualifications for those leaders be? Especially with the media, photogenicity often trumps competency. I am reminded (a la Dune, the Bible) of how much people like a story (contributing to the narrative fallacy sometimes) and a hero/ messiah figure. Perhaps it would be useful to 'convert' people, but much of science is too complicated for any one person or even cabal, IMO.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:30 PM

@Melissa: Your comment about involvement with academia necessitating a self-censorship deserves highlighting because some of those orthodox-ified minds run research labs...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 10:40 AM

Haha, I didn't mind her making general comments about other guys "hotness", she was hardly likely to chase him to Seattle regardless - I can't believe de Vany boasted about neighbors complaining, where did you read that?

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 10:17 AM

Your girlfriend didn't fancy him? Did you want her to?! :D

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 09:38 AM

I'm going to offend a few people I know, but I have a problem with Robb Wolf, I know plenty of non paleo people aged 39 that look just as good, plus he doesn't write coherently. My girlfriend didn't fancy him, Erwan le Corre on the overhand, well... I think the best spokesperson would be somewhat like a 70 year old Jack Lalanne (I know he wasn't paleo). Sisson for me is the closest.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 09:36 AM

I'm going to offend a few people I know, but I have a problem with Robb Wolf, I know plenty of non paleo people aged 39 that look just as good, plus he doesn't write coherently. My girlfriend didn't fancy him, Erwan le Corre mind you.... I think the best spokesperson would be a somewhat like a 70 year old Jack Lalanne (I know he wasn't paleo). Sisson for me is the closest.

0ee98c251b5eef357445aefec99c5d7b

(888)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:56 AM

I think there has to be a few 'leaders', i.e. people the media can turn to with questions. Having a few sane people who really now their stuff and walk the talk are essential, especially if you want to go mainstream and avoid the cult-like associations.

0ee98c251b5eef357445aefec99c5d7b

(888)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:53 AM

agree, I think Sisson & Wolf are the perfect spokesmen.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:20 AM

I go for Mark Sisson too, he's old enough, looks the part and seems to be a genuine guy. I don't know much about Art de Vany since his blog is behind a wall.

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30 Answers

16
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 01, 2011
at 01:40 AM

Gossip, but according to sources that were actually there during the interview, things got kind of heated. I can imagine Jennifer felt a little like I did after De Vany was an asshole to me. I wish I had been there, but I didn't want to deal with the drama. The best thing I can say about him these days is at least he looks good. That's all the media cares about really. It's been disillusioning for me to hear him reject debate and just act like a jerk.

And the media gets what they deserve since they only want to portray uber-alpha males as the faces of this diet. Duh they are going to be difficult. At this point I've been involved with TV/Print reporters enough to know that I'm always going to get cut from pieces because I don't fit that paradigm. Doesn't really bother me personally since I am involved with academia again and don't want to be outed to my professors, but I'd still rather see someone like Sisson as the face of paleo.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 09:36 AM

I'm going to offend a few people I know, but I have a problem with Robb Wolf, I know plenty of non paleo people aged 39 that look just as good, plus he doesn't write coherently. My girlfriend didn't fancy him, Erwan le Corre mind you.... I think the best spokesperson would be a somewhat like a 70 year old Jack Lalanne (I know he wasn't paleo). Sisson for me is the closest.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 10:17 AM

Your girlfriend didn't fancy him? Did you want her to?! :D

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

Yeah, Erwan is definitely the most attractive paleo spokesperson. I personally tend to like my men a little more neolithic for some reason...

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:30 PM

@Melissa: Your comment about involvement with academia necessitating a self-censorship deserves highlighting because some of those orthodox-ified minds run research labs...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 03:24 PM

ok thanks for that, does sound like it's all gone to his head a little.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:20 AM

I go for Mark Sisson too, he's old enough, looks the part and seems to be a genuine guy. I don't know much about Art de Vany since his blog is behind a wall.

0ee98c251b5eef357445aefec99c5d7b

(888)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:53 AM

agree, I think Sisson & Wolf are the perfect spokesmen.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 02:03 PM

I'll try and dig out the article for you, was in an english paper.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 09:38 AM

I'm going to offend a few people I know, but I have a problem with Robb Wolf, I know plenty of non paleo people aged 39 that look just as good, plus he doesn't write coherently. My girlfriend didn't fancy him, Erwan le Corre on the overhand, well... I think the best spokesperson would be somewhat like a 70 year old Jack Lalanne (I know he wasn't paleo). Sisson for me is the closest.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 02:07 PM

Just found it, I misquoted a little :D actual quote “We do have a lot of sex for a 70-year-old couple. I had to close the door the other night, she was screaming so loud – she sings!” link to article http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/diet_and_fitness/article4523487.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2 it is from 2008.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 10:40 AM

Haha, I didn't mind her making general comments about other guys "hotness", she was hardly likely to chase him to Seattle regardless - I can't believe de Vany boasted about neighbors complaining, where did you read that?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 22, 2011
at 10:05 PM

Truth! Mark Sisson's forum is swimming with foxy ladies.

15
C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on February 01, 2011
at 04:24 PM

Let's be honest the whole article was nonsense and it seems plenty of 'paleo' people were misquoted. The comments after the article on the web site are quite revealing. I would say we don't need a leader - for me paleo is about finding out the 'truth' for myself through thorough research rather than following a set of ideas. Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, Kurt Harris - they all disagree on some things whilst agreeing on others - it's up to me to draw my own conclusions. Instead of teaching kids at school about healthy eating schools should be teaching kids how to recognize bad science and how to deconstruct media texts - too many people believe what they read regardless of where it comes from and rely on others - the government, doctors, the media to tell them what to eat and what to think. The writer of the article was only interested in a controversial spin and if any non-paleo people were to ask me about it (unlikely - no-one reads Time) I'd just tell them to take no notice of it. We don't have a consensus about what life was like 40,000 years ago, no-one can know but we can think about and explore the implications of evolution on us as individuals. I'm not interested in what results in maximum reproduction - clearly agriculture does an excellent job there - I'm interested in optimum health and longevity for me as an individual.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 02, 2011
at 07:13 AM

well said, I agree

Aa1d5fbb9d8051538161c9a03afd384e

(226)

on February 06, 2011
at 11:46 PM

Agreed with Queen and Oliverh :)

10
2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 01, 2011
at 10:20 AM

I don't like his stance on fat. Also he sounds like a bit of a knob. Credit where credit's due but I read an article where he was boasting to the reporter about how he gets his wife screaming so hard the neighbours complain. WOAH Art, WAY to much information.

0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

I never considered him Paleo/Fat freindly. Nor even low card friendly either

8
463a85858508f1de7a34b548a0340844

on February 06, 2011
at 02:12 AM

My friend Cami says she signed up for his blog and every question anyone asks usually end up with him bragging on himself in the response.

Paying subscriber: "My C-reactive protein is high, Art. What do you think I can do?"

Art: "Mine is lower than an 18 year old's. People are amazed by me."

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:18 AM

@Melissa: Neither a fan nor a female, although humorless sometimes, in particular when people use their admin rights to infer other peoples gender (I find you cute though, although for some disturbing reason in your pre-paleo donut pic).

6ae590a9f80a306e4fa4c78e00fb2bf7

(30)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:52 PM

I think it was a generalization of the way DeVany reacts to situations, CK. I have been on his site and seen his comments. He never fails to throw in a mention of how great his numbers are. Hell, it's the same way in his book. And bear in mind that I don't dislike the guy at all but am someone who doesn't care for his huge ego on display and the enabling of it by the sycophantic supporters who pay money to read his ramblings.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 06, 2011
at 06:59 PM

it's a joke Connie. Why does Art have so many humorless female fans?

463a85858508f1de7a34b548a0340844

(196)

on February 07, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Lighten up, CK. Seriously. I guess that advice applies to me as well, I must admit.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:17 AM

Yes, I get it. It's a parody. It should have been a tell-tale sign that his "friend Cami says" this. Well, my friend, um ... Rüdiger, says, that I don't like the whole Art Devany bashing lately on Paleo Hacks. I liked the community better when we were sticking to the facts of say discussing the latest strain of paleo gut bacteria instead of this whole weird gossiping / group dynamics kind of thing.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 06, 2011
at 11:43 AM

I have a subscription to his site. Could you please post the link to the alledged conversation you cited.

1e277ab24aa0ef17ceb17179ef0b134e

(10)

on February 07, 2011
at 06:21 AM

Yes, I get it. It's a parody. It should have been a tell-tale sign that his "friend Cami says" this. Well, my friend, um ... Rüdiger, says, that he doesn't like the whole Art Devany bashing lately on Paleo Hacks. He liked the community better when we were sticking to the facts of say discussing the latest strain of paleo gut bacteria instead of this whole weird gossiping / group dynamics kind of thing.

8
Medium avatar

on February 01, 2011
at 03:45 PM

I wouldnt worry about anyone's reactions to the article because no one reads Time magazine.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on January 13, 2013
at 01:29 PM

Chuckle, chuckle.

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on July 10, 2013
at 05:37 PM

"Lucky for me, no one I know reads your little 'Time Magazine'!"

7
50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on January 31, 2011
at 10:09 PM

It bothers me not. I have seen an amazing transformation in myself and the others who have given the Paleo lifestyle a try. I have never been in better shape, or happier in my life. While I do think more people being properly nourished etc is better for humans in general, it does not matter to me if it is popular, trendy, or accepted as/by the mainstream.

6
3cba542909106ba56854abfad713a94b

on January 13, 2013
at 01:24 AM

Such stupid stuff. Wait until you are interviewed by a deceptive journalist, if one ever feels they might wish to interview you.

Try this, when you are 75 get back to me.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 13, 2013
at 02:11 AM

My grandma is 93 and is in great health on diet that contains grains and dairy. Maybe she can email you some health tips.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 15, 2013
at 08:33 PM

Seconded. Journalists, the crappy kind pull all sorts of nasty stuff. They'll do whole interviews, then cut and paste out of context whenever they need something to "prove" a point. Best thing you can do is record the interview yourself, and if you feel the journalist misquoted/represented your views, post the audio online for all to hear. Make sure they agree to that ahead of time, you don't want to be sued by them, etc.

6
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on February 04, 2011
at 03:48 PM

I view him as a very loud n=1 experiment.

He speaks for himself, and not for me.

I am happy with the new things I have learned about how I can be healthy.


Art can neither encourage or discourage me, he is not in my tribe.

He is in his own diatribe. (heh)

5
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 22, 2011
at 10:02 PM

To my knowledge, the entire paleo argument revolves around the difference in health between hunter-gatherers and agrarians. Hunter-gatherers: large, robust, powerful, flawless bone health, no signs of CHD, diabetes, etc. Agrarians: short, gaunt, sickly, poor bones.

The "our genes don't care if we live a long time as long as we have a lot of babies" argument is painful to read because it is basically asserting that there is no such thing as a biological diet for a particular animal. Oh really... So you wouldn't mind feeding your pet bunny rabbit a lamb chop? Apparently its genes don't change to adapt to different food sources so a lamb chop is as good for a rabbit as a carrot.

The paleo principle really should be stated as "We have only been eating grains and legumes in significant quantities for a limited amount of time, and there are toxic substances in them that we hypothesize might be pathological to humans since we might not have evolved methods of defense against them. We tested it and what do ya know? These foods are harmful to humans and increase inflammation"

The chronic cardio argument is actually invalid. Not that it is wrong that chronic cardio is unhealthy, but that is a necessity of physics, not biology. Long-distance running is demonstrably pathological.

Could we just say "grains practice kin selection and therefore manufacture poisons to kill animals for the benefit of their kin, and it is unhealthy to eat such seeds" and "long-distance running causes inordinate amounts of oxidative stress, raises cortisol, and damages organs"? Yeah we could do that. Although there is much wisdom to be garnered from the anthropological evidence and since nutrition is a subset of biology, and evolution is the default connecting principle of biology, perhaps we should start with the evolutionary stance when forming a hypothesis. Hypothesis being the key word in all of this. It just so happens that 90% of the time it turns out to beget the truth more often than not.

5
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Any publicity is good publicity. It's nice to get a write up at all. The article is crappy. Uninformative, judgmental. It's looking at individuals rather than robust ideas. It uses Art in the same way TV reporters use "the man on the street." But Art does concern me though. He seems to be drifting more towards low carb and away from paleo. Chris Masterjohn's recent write up on Art's book was pretty spot on.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Art-De-Vany-New-Evolution-Diet-Review.html

Unfortunately, there is so much potentially harmful dietary advice in this book that it could prove to be a step down from the Standard American Diet depending on how it is executed. Many people may begin throwing egg yolks and chicken skin away, rather than cutting out the white bread or starting high-intensity interval training. Some may suffer harm from these changes and others may just find a low-fat, low-carb diet impossible to stay on.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on February 04, 2011
at 10:19 AM

I agree about Masterjohn's review -- it's terrific!

5
A089b683ee0498f2b21b7edfa300e405

on February 01, 2011
at 04:38 AM

???First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.??? Mahatma Gandhi

That is the way, history, almost always, repeats itself.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

History rarely repeats itself. It certainly rhymes though.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 04, 2011
at 12:30 AM

"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history." - Aldous Huxley

296b837795beec2ea6bfe5598e773a7e

(354)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:50 PM

History rarely repeats itself? That is a false statement kido.

4
Fe535c4994ac6176f76e1ff6d29eb08a

on February 01, 2011
at 05:30 PM

I tend to not take things like this too seriously. It is pretty apparent that this "journalist" had a point of view and an opinion he wanted stated when sat down to write this article. I am all for dissenting opinions and as a poli sci major, I embrace discussion on all topics. However, to pick out certain pieces of the paleo argument, misinterpret them, and then poke holes in them, seems pretty juvenile. Of course, a quick google search under her name shows a pretty strong lack of objectivity in most of her writing.

4
9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on January 31, 2011
at 11:31 PM

I think the problem you are sighting is that there is no clear leader here in the Paleo Community. Maybe Art de Vany isn't the man for all, if not, who should it be? Is there a high carbohydrate / low fat forum that has a similar leader like figure? Is there a need for a celebrity face? hm.... do we really need a leader figure anyway?

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:34 PM

@Tom & oliverh: What would the qualifications for those leaders be? Especially with the media, photogenicity often trumps competency. I am reminded (a la Dune, the Bible) of how much people like a story (contributing to the narrative fallacy sometimes) and a hero/ messiah figure. Perhaps it would be useful to 'convert' people, but much of science is too complicated for any one person or even cabal, IMO.

0ee98c251b5eef357445aefec99c5d7b

(888)

on February 01, 2011
at 08:56 AM

I think there has to be a few 'leaders', i.e. people the media can turn to with questions. Having a few sane people who really now their stuff and walk the talk are essential, especially if you want to go mainstream and avoid the cult-like associations.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on February 01, 2011
at 06:16 PM

maybe it should be asked as a separate thread, although I think there have been similar ones before. I personally don't need a leader figure, I just don't like Art de Vany assuming power, being immediately associated with this, not that I have anything against him; I just didn't come down this path through him.

4
0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

on January 31, 2011
at 10:27 PM

I see your point of frustration, Jake, but Devany is only a spokesman for his book and blog. When directing your friends and loved ones to information on this paleo/primal/evolutionarily based lifestyle, you'll just have to work around the info you agree or disagree with. It's frustrating, though, and the explaining you may end up doing, may help to steer you to some new understanding as well.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 01, 2011
at 01:36 PM

@Tim: Great point about steering one to new understanding. It sounds like a Socratic debate (the intellectual fight to the death) where higher understanding comes out of two biased sides arguing.

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on February 01, 2011
at 05:03 PM

I keep current in the paleo-scene and have really had some personal views changed by getting a bit more info on one topic or another.

3
6ae590a9f80a306e4fa4c78e00fb2bf7

on February 06, 2011
at 04:45 PM

De Vany estimates the waist-to-hip ratios of early humans based on the waist-to-hip ratios of modern athletes (p. 27), which is pretty speculative, to put it politely and diplomatically. De Vany argues that it is not entirely our fault we are fat, because we are genetically programmed to be lazy overeaters (p. 92), but also suggests that, though the stigma currently is maladaptive, our propensity to judge obese people too harshly probably evolved as an adaptation "during evolutionary times, when obesity was rare and almost surely indicated that that person was taking more from the group than they were contributing to it" (p. 179). In the absence of any attempt to identify the genes and biochemical pathways that are responsible for the obesity stigma, I'm afraid this speculation is what Stephan Jay Gould and others would have referred to as a "just so story" rather than science.

DeVany's book in a nutshell. Thank you, Chris Masterjohn, for that book review. (http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Art-De-Vany-New-Evolution-Diet-Review.html)

3
0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on February 03, 2011
at 11:59 PM

I pay him no attention and haven't once I figured out he is only about himself and has become a tad senile. Sorry all you Art lovers but he is past being useful.

3
95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 01, 2011
at 06:28 AM

I haven't seen a mainstream media piece on paleo that I have liked, so I was kind of "meh" on this one, too. It brought up a bit more than the typical "look at this wacky fad--it's like the meat cookie diet or something!" or "club your lady and drag her in the cave!" bs (barely) so it may entice a few more people to check it out, which is good.

If people haven't seen John Durant's take on it yet, it's worth checking out: http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/how-media-sensationalizes-paleo

3
Medium avatar

on February 01, 2011
at 05:23 AM

Instead of wasting time talking about exercise, it's far more constructive to make every paleo conversation with the uninitiated about how wheat, fructose, industrial seed oils etc. are killing them.

That being said, I think De Vany is a great example of what you can do with 20-some years of low carb. There aren't too many examples of older people who have done this. In fact, I can't think of any other ones.

I would, however, like to read about these 3000 adaptations.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on February 01, 2011
at 05:43 PM

Oprah's vegan now?!

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on February 01, 2011
at 03:38 PM

also maybe the media isn't receptive to our knowledge yet. example: oprah going vegan today.

2
016d898536232b3f4afeec4ad8e05115

on February 04, 2011
at 06:01 PM

Art's fascination with all things Art is a drag. I couldn't believe all of the pictures he had of himself on his site. Then, when he was putting his book together, he asked his readers to help him choose from an extensive portfolio of pictures; which ones would be best for his new book.

2
154d799847153f5589f99496a9bdbb71

on February 01, 2011
at 02:55 PM

'And our genes don't care how healthy we are as long as we reproduce. "Natural selection is about how many children you have and how many children they have," Lieberman says. "From an adaptation perspective, people today are doing just fine. There are several billion of us."'

facepalm

Having 7 billion people on the planet might mean humanity is doing fine, but it doesn't tell you anything about how individuals are doing. The reasoning in this article is just terrible.

4ff24fb9a7d48305681487dfb8040a5e

(383)

on February 01, 2011
at 04:56 PM

7 billion are probably 6 billion too much. nature is all about balance, we have beaten nature...

2
C2502365891cbcc8af2d1cf1d7b0e9fc

(2437)

on February 01, 2011
at 03:57 AM

The comments were encouraging.

1
0bbc30fdcf0105b56168fd7d02310ea0

on January 15, 2013
at 02:42 PM

I did try to bring his products G1, G2 & G3 to the UK. First of all he said that we would have it same price as the USA, then later back tracked and said he couldn't possibly sell for the same price to the UK as USA. Bear in mind the products come from Europe. And he put up all the prices in line with the shipping the UK customers were paying already, something I was trying to avoid.

I questioned him on this (all correspondence via email) and said the UK customers won't like it and he's ignored me ever since.

He thinks I'm too low in the paleo hierarchy to question his actions me thinks.

He also tried to delete and lock comments on his forum that he felt were below his level of 'understanding' for a while or that had been asked before at some point which I though was egotistical and so did some others. He denied this though when I put this to him.

He is an egotistical prat as far as I can make out from my online interactions with him. Consistently bringing himself up in virtually every comment he makes about his spin on paleo, quite tedious eventually.

1
8f24c914fa9538f3a9460e9a782c0d7d

on March 22, 2011
at 09:26 PM

Devany is on his site today (yesterday?) attempting to explain Zen Buddhism in a one-page essay. Pretty much stating that he can sum up both Zen AND Taoism in two or three paragraphs.

If THAT is the level of scholarship he's applying to nutrition, then I'm very dubious of his advice, to say the least.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 23, 2011
at 12:34 AM

LOL that's pretty funny. I posted a Taoist quote once on my blog and got a very angry comment "There are at least 2000 volumes in the Taoist cannon and one suspects you are familiar with none of them. In fact I doubt that you can even read Chinese. So to use this one quote to substantiate your position only makes you look absurd. Perhaps you might considerconsulting the Taoist precepts before demonstrating your ignorance. Meat eaters don't really bother me much simply because they are digging their (early) graves with their forks. Fred"

1
6d2d980ccfde9a0d72abe5db5d0859d5

on February 04, 2011
at 05:07 PM

Here is something that I'm shocked that no one ever brings up:

I have 2 diet books from the 90s wherein the author's personal story is exactly the same as Devany's supposed story. I.E., scientist has wife become diabetic and sets out on his own to independently research the research on nutrition and on his own discover the true way to eat. I'm not at home right now and the title and author of one of the books slips my mind, but the other one with the exact same supposed back story is Beyond the Zone by Brian Peskin.

Peskin has been busted for fraud by some state's attorney general office, by the way.

It's all quite coincidental, wouldn't you say? Guy's wife gets diabetes and the guy sets off as a maverick investigator to find the truth and comes up with his diet.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on February 04, 2011
at 05:31 PM

it actually makes perfect sense to me. i came about this because i wanted to get off the yo-yo. got deeper into it because i wanted to get my father healthy again. self-preservation and love makes one do some serious searching for answers.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 04, 2011
at 06:28 PM

except he's not a scientist. As someone with training in econ who is trying to be a scientist, I'd say there is a large gulf between the two fields...

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on February 06, 2011
at 03:02 AM

One thing I've noticed about people who are deeply involved in stochastic processes and stochastic differential equations is that many of them end up thinking they are the answer to everything in terms of mathematical modeling. I had a professor for one course who seemed to think his theory of jump diffusions in mathematical finance were the be all and end all of scientific progress and thinking. I suspect, but have no proof, that De Vany falls into this category.

1
82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on February 04, 2011
at 10:10 AM

Post deleted by author.

0
008195e886a7b86d28b821d90d279c7b

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

I'm afraid I must disagree with most of the comments on this thread. Although De Vany can be be a little subjective for some, you simply cannot ignore the volume of work he has done for the Paleo argument. I have not met him but through his blog, books, interviews and articles I find him engaging with a tremendous subject knowledge. He has every right to be self-aggrandising as someone who saw the truth well before any of the detractors on this thread were buying clothes for themselves. If he wants to call someone "full of crap" then that's fine. Even if he didn't have volumes of data to back him up he would still be of an age where you are fully entitled, expected and encouraged to call people "full of crap" on a regular basis.

0
7078537d2570507bb26c5f77ffd9b879

on August 29, 2013
at 11:06 AM

Walk the Walk before criticizing Art. Yes, his data are N=1 in many cases, but that's the whole point of his position. I was reading his blog when he was in fact reporting the results of dietary changes while his first wife was hospitalized, and no one can convince me that they were staged or massaged. His generalizations are based on empirical thinking, using results he has attained himself. He doesn't even like being associated with the "paleo" label, since he terms his POV as "evolutionary fitness." So maybe you young whippersnappers ought to accumulate 50++ years of gym time and thoughtful eating patterns before attempting to find flaws with Art's views. The real takeaway should be his ability to age well, not whether your DNA cares about population.

0
008195e886a7b86d28b821d90d279c7b

on February 17, 2013
at 11:07 PM

I don't think the article was entirely fair. In fact I thought it was contrived and left out so much as to make it a pointless waste of time. De Vany has his theories as does Wolfe and Sissons and they make sense. It seems that De Vany style of writing on this point has always been 1st person in nature and to complain about it now is like complaining about the uniform after joining the army.

0
3fd3253a7bb5ce96565fec85bc20b0b8

on February 04, 2011
at 08:01 PM

Ha Ha, Neil Bernard. Right.

For everyone who doesn't know, Dr. Neil Bernard is a leading advocate for pro-vegan, anti-anything else thinking.

http://www.nealbarnard.org/

016d898536232b3f4afeec4ad8e05115

(316)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:26 PM

Sorry, you have the wrong Neal, my mistakenly self satisfied sleuth.

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on February 04, 2011
at 10:22 PM

Where would be in this world if people were allowed to have similiar sounding names? Oh, wait..

0
8f2b61d011f059afa11e589363a8c663

on February 03, 2011
at 11:19 PM

I think it is misguided to follow our ancestors. An 800 year old Inuit mummy was found to have extensive atherosclerosis.

Just doing sprints does NOT cut it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

Um, that mummy was from a culture whose cooking method were the equivalent of smoking 6 packs a day.

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