1

votes

Acne and diet?. Paleo vs westernized

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 26, 2012 at 2:42 AM

I have tried every diet Imaginable to alleviate this problem. Right now I'm doing potatoes, seafood, and fruits. This is an enjoyable diet for me, except one thing. I don't particularly crave the seafood part.

My question, is if there m ight be something to the aspect of eating to for my cravings. For instance, seafood has large quantities of iodine known to exacerbate acne. Another factor is that I'm fair skinned and Irish, perhaps my lineage was not adapted to seafood and shellfish.(and the extra iodine)

So I wonder if eating whatever I want could help. I don't remember suffering from acne as bad when I ate a western diet of whatever I enjoyed.

I welcome anyone who has tried this or thinks there is merit to this idea.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on November 24, 2012
at 08:50 AM

BTW, I am using desiccated thyroid.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on November 24, 2012
at 08:46 AM

Just as a follow up Korion. As I've found more of a balance between retinol supplementation and thryoid, things are doing way better. It's hard to strike the balance for me, and eating even small amounts liver every other day concerns me because of iron content. Sometimes I'll get weeks on end where my skin is invincible, and if I start to break out, I just up the retinol in the ratio.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:41 PM

It's just thyroid hormone, but you really gotta educate yourself before experimenting with it, as this is way more potent than food and thus harder to control. I could write down a whole list of things you could do here, but it will just make you confused, unless you read Ray Peats articles. I found those entertaining anyways, they're well-written and completely changed the way I look at things. And they also answered a lot of questions I asked myself for years (for example why my 'intelligence' fluctuated throughout my life).

Ffd72922a42e5f5c663d9a189229299f

(139)

on May 30, 2012
at 07:47 PM

How do I supplement Thyroid hormone Korion? Might be a dumb question. Not that educated in what Thyroid really means. Also what would you advise for acne food and supplementing?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 29, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Actually the sugar itself doesn't really increase my need for retinol that much, bright light (from infrared lightbulbs and the sun) and thyroid hormone increase it by a lot.

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 09:14 PM

Not enough to make up for the sugar load?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 28, 2012
at 09:09 PM

One of the two daily, though sometimes even that's not enough.

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:53 PM

Also, can you define "liver and oysters regularly"?

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Can you please post in "our topic" where you get your liver and oysters? (http://paleohacks.com/questions/71145/epic-per-region-paleo-resources-thread-belgium#axzz1wAqPwhty)

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:33 PM

Oh, and to douche with cola and to drink it every day are two different things, don't you think? So keep drinking as a form of natural birth control for men. He he he :))))

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:31 PM

I don't care about the sperm, but bone density is FOR SURE!!! Also, any acidic substance will have SOME spermicidal effect. Even plain vinegar - but don't use it.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 02:16 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3679247 *"The results show that cola has little if any spermicidal effect. Its use in postcoital douching is ineffective and could cause complications such as infection."*

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 02:16 PM

We probably are :), can you link a study about bone density, and also I mentioned the phosphoric acid they add to coke so you probably would want to drink pepsi. I'm not gonna fight with studies here, as I'm not qualified to do so, but the livestrong article you linked to kinda made me chuckle because (1) correlation != causation (sperm studies), (2) it's done with coca cola thus probably with HFCS and phosphoric acid (3) it didn't really say coca cola has been shown to produce bad effects but rather talks about caffeine and sugar (4) it's a livestrong article.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 01:31 PM

Thanks for answering but I guess we are on the opposite sides of a Paleo spectrum. You don't see why everybody lables coke as extremely bad? How about losing bone density? How about this How about the amount of sugar?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:25 PM

I also don't see why everyone labels coke as extremely bad. It's a bit bad for teeth, and its phosphorus content is very undesirable, but combine it with calcium and it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Just because it's artificial doesn't mean it's bad. I don't drink raw milk btw, can't find it, sometimes I drink pasteurized sometimes UHT.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:20 PM

You gotta understand that when I say *"Ray Peat is against"*, I'm not telling the truth, since he doesn't really label food as healthy or not. I just make those conclusions based on his articles. When I read his take on PUFA and started to dig a bit deeper into the Burr papers and all the related papers, I decided to cut out fish oil and fatty fish. I don't like those anyways. But that's just me. When he says PUFA he talks about seed oils. When he says plants he talks mostly about grains, though I decided to cut out veggies too. I think he makes broths with very well-cooked veggies ...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:11 PM

It's not about natural, VB, but about optimal. Your whole nation didn't grow up with seed oils everywhere, did they? Ray isn't *against* veggies, he just says its possible they screw up one's digestion, same goes for nuts and seeds. Coke is not the best thing to eat but better than PUFA. You can assure everything you want, it's not just the carbs that did the magic. Cutting out as much PUFA as possible really helped, just like sugar clearly works better for me than starch. *Where is the logic* You have to read Ray Peat to answer that, I think his articles are pretty damn logic.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:25 AM

Coke is good? That makes me so mad, I just want to.... never mind. No further comments. I am glad you are doing better on Ray Peats but let me assure you - you would just as good on high carb Paleo and Primal with fresh raw milk. I wonder where you get raw milk in Belgium - do they even sell it raw?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:21 AM

If you were LC and VLC Paleo and then changed your diet to Ray Peats (there is definitely more carbs on Ray Peats'diet), it makes total sense to me why you are feeling much better on Ray Peats diet. We are not meant to be LC, and especially VLC. The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds? That's bullsh't if you tell me. My whole entire nation is built on berries. All Northern people consumed wild berries for centuries and now they are bad because they have tiny seeds? Where is the logic? Veggies were consumed for centuries too!!! Gelatin is good, but bone broth is even better.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:01 AM

(...) *- that makes total sense*?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:00 AM

I was LC paleo, VLC, ZC, then tried safe starches, then did fruity paleo, then introduced sugar, then introduced milk, ... What do you mean with *"Makes no sense to me"*? The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds, veggies are high in phosphorus and non-digestible stuff, fatty fish and olive oil are okay in moderation but are high in PUFA, gelatin is good as it lacks tryptophan and cysteine and has glycine, coke is good for its CO2, milk for its calcium, sugar because its sugar, ... And what do you mean with *"Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on RP"*?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 08:59 AM

I was LC paleo, VLC, ZC, then tried safe starches, then did fruity paleo, then introduced sugar, then introduced milk, ... What do you mean with *"Makes no sense to me*"? The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds, veggies are high in phosphorus and non-digestible stuff, fatty fish and olive oil are okay in moderation but are high in PUFA, gelatin is good as it lacks tryptophan and cysteine and has glycine, coke is good for its CO2, milk for its calcium, sugar because its sugar, ... And what do you mean with *"Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on RP"*?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 08:55 AM

Exactly :). Have you ever tracked your food intake in Cron-O-Meter and see if you aren't low on something? And just on a sidenote, aspirin could really help too. Danny Roddy takes a lot of it.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Though I must say, I've had very similar experiences to you since introducing sugars again. Everyone thought I was becoming overly anxious, and that this then translated into a weird diet. But it was the opposite, my autoimmune high-fat low-carb paleo diet was the sole cause of my stress. I was nearly diagnosed with OCD while on it. Now all of that is gone and I have almost no social anxiety. Everything in my life is exactly the same but it's like I got a new brain for Christmas.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:29 AM

Occasional bone broth, eggs, some muscle meat. Don't really bother with vegetables anymore. I take 20k A (retinol palminate supplement) if I haven't had liver. I don't know, might just keep going with it. Basically it wasn't a cure, I went off topicals, and I'm being fussy because the diet didn't keep me clear.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 09:22 PM

How much A, and what kind? Do you eat anything else than what you listed?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:33 PM

I found this thread - not convinced about raw Paleo either.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:32 PM

I already read that one. Not convinced. The only thing I see different he allows sugar, milk, cheese, coke, fruit juice, encourages gelatin, disapproves of veggies and berries, mango, fatty fish and olive oil. Makes no sense to me. By the way, were you ever a LC when you were doing Paleo? Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on Ray Peat - that makes total sense.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:30 PM

I've been eating fruit, sugar (ice cream), liver, mussels, low-PUFA, while supplementing with A & D for the past few weeks and my skin looks terrible. Tried to go off all topicals again too, as advised often on PH. I paid dearly for my hubris. Worst skin in ten years.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:28 PM

Yeah I kinda thought, based on your post, that you focused more on seeing stress as *mental*, while usually when I'm under stress, it's purely physical. I read your post again and it looks like I was wrong :). My personality has changed a lot the last couple of months, I can control myself much more, and don't get mad easily. It's interesting to note that my grandfather was an extremely kind dude, and he ate tons of honey, milk and ice cream. Since doing the same thing I'm much more kind too, and it's almost hard to get angry at someone.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:21 PM

I'm totally not the only peatarian on this board :D!! Cliff, Danny Roddy, Edward Edmonds, Senneth, Bruno, and I think Kasra are too. The link you gave is not the best list you could find but Peat doesn't make guidelines. He just does science and you gotta read it and see for yourself what to do. Danny Roddy is pretty clear about it. A good description of the "diet" can be found here : http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=419742 I see diets like this : SAD < Raw Vegan < Paleo < Weston A Price < Peat. The most crucial thing of the diet is PUFAs.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:29 PM

Bad diets create a nutritional stress, this is correct. That's what I meant in my post.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:27 PM

I found this . Is this the right list?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 02:28 PM

Could you please link me to Ray Peats meal plan? Not all this other stuff he said or recommends - I read tons of it, I just want a daily meal plan. I know Danny Roddy's meal plan, but... is it much different from Ray Peats? You are the only Peatarian on this board so.... Please?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:13 AM

Iodine does not cause acne for me, but that may be just me.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:12 AM

Your view of sugar is too simplified and doesn't explain any of my anecdotes. Green veggies actually make me a bit worse. Not that much though. But I agree that potatoes could be an issue.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:06 AM

I think the interaction between zinc and retinol plays a big role. Many americans are zinc-deficient due to a crappy diet. I personally had no success with zinc supplementation, but I was never deficient in it and it kinda gave me stomach aches to supplement it. I've tried reducing stress in my life too, but the number one thing that helped the most was following Peats diet to reduce stress. Now that I'm less susceptible to stress I also became more social, more confident, likely due to a new hormonal balance. I have noticed that I only crave one thing now, and that's social events.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:32 AM

Also, teens and acne do not go hand in hand in ALL cultures. If I were to live with bushmen, the first thing I would check is their teenagers. Do they have acne? If acne in hunter-gatherer teenagers is documented - I rest my case. Also (please do not misunderstand me but what I am about to say is true) - out of all different kids I have taught American kids get the worst of acne. Not sure why. SAD? Korean/Japanese that eat traditional food - none that I can remember. Even the ones that do not eat traditional food.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:11 AM

I've always wondered, along the lines of Danny, if there is nothing bad or abnormal for some genetically predisposed people to develop acne along with hormone surges. I had friends who got it, it cleared as they grew up, and moved on- my parents had clear skin however, so I never had to worry about it. Just curious if it is ever "just one of those things" about being a teenager, independent of health...I get what Danny is wondering, I just don't know anything about the answer!

5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 26, 2012
at 06:52 AM

The Irish were eating fish and shellfish thousands of years before they started eating potatoes (which only entered the scene in the 17th century, IIRC--they aren't a truly "ancestral" food for any Europeans). And they ate lots of it, too. There is no reason why being of Irish descent would mean you are not adapted to eat seafood. [/pedantry]

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:13 AM

They ALL have hormonal surges. How come only some of them develop acne? And all people who develop it fit under the same type?

C3bc92e6b5eba45dc55f43ac3c70cc25

on May 26, 2012
at 05:31 AM

Good answer but, Wouldn't a hormones surge justify those teens acne?

  • E8c2167284f0cdd16a12bea2741975b4

    asked by

    (476)
  • Views
    4.1K
  • Last Activity
    1283D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

6 Answers

3
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:02 AM

VB makes a good point about stress, but personally I think its more upside down : bad diets make you susceptible to stress. I linked to http://thelovevitamin.com because she controls her skin with diet (just to point out that it is possible), but I don't agree with her diet, as some things she eats (like lentils and nuts) cause big problems for me, and I think the only reason she tolerates them is because she does so many lifestyle changes like yoga classes (things I don't have time nor interest for).

Paleo without nuts pretty much reduced my acne to 2-3 small zits, which was kinda okay, way better than it had ever been. Whenever I had an exam, presentation, date, ... I would get a big zit. I wouldn't be able to cope with the stress, even if it was low. So Peat kinda interested me for this.

Right now my sleep is just perfect, I never wake up at night anymore and can finally sleep in a room with light shining in it (and I need less sleep). Last time I had a presentation I didn't get any skin issues, and felt quite okay. I wasn't even very stressed out for it, and managed to improvize during the whole thing which is quite amazing given the fact that I used to be mister ultra-shy-boy.

Some interesting stuff that I found out is that I just get acne on my chin if I don't eat enough sugar. Eating lots of dairy and fruits do not trigger acne when I eat liver and oysters regularly, and I found out I can replace liver and oysters with retinol and not get acne. The biggest change you gotta make is reduce PUFA intake to an absolute minimum though. Some things like coconut oil and butter have PUFA but their saturated fats are protective. But nuts, fatty fish, olive oil should be avoided. If you decide to supplement vitamin A, you can use Nutrisorb-A on your skin itself, it's water-soluble vitamin A. Doses are personal, I've heard of two people that need 70.000iu to get rid of acne, while I personally need around 25.000iu depending on how much milk I use. Cliff also got rid of his acne and he apparently needs 50.000iu.

Ray Peat said that usually, when people supplement thyroid hormone and eat liver, their acne clears up. I can vouch for that, but I think PUFA elimination should be done too.

There is so much to be talked about, but I'm gonna stop here. I'd say give it a try, you can always go back to your old diet if it doesn't work.

EDIT : just wanted to add that a Peatarian diet also enabled me to cut out lots of supplements (magnesium citrate, vitamin C, B-complex, selenium) that initially took care of some of the acne. I still take B3, fat-solubles and eggshell calcium, but I'm slowly transitioning to only topical supplements (the retinol works quite well on the skin for example).

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 08:55 AM

Exactly :). Have you ever tracked your food intake in Cron-O-Meter and see if you aren't low on something? And just on a sidenote, aspirin could really help too. Danny Roddy takes a lot of it.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:29 AM

Occasional bone broth, eggs, some muscle meat. Don't really bother with vegetables anymore. I take 20k A (retinol palminate supplement) if I haven't had liver. I don't know, might just keep going with it. Basically it wasn't a cure, I went off topicals, and I'm being fussy because the diet didn't keep me clear.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:30 PM

I've been eating fruit, sugar (ice cream), liver, mussels, low-PUFA, while supplementing with A & D for the past few weeks and my skin looks terrible. Tried to go off all topicals again too, as advised often on PH. I paid dearly for my hubris. Worst skin in ten years.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:37 AM

Though I must say, I've had very similar experiences to you since introducing sugars again. Everyone thought I was becoming overly anxious, and that this then translated into a weird diet. But it was the opposite, my autoimmune high-fat low-carb paleo diet was the sole cause of my stress. I was nearly diagnosed with OCD while on it. Now all of that is gone and I have almost no social anxiety. Everything in my life is exactly the same but it's like I got a new brain for Christmas.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 09:22 PM

How much A, and what kind? Do you eat anything else than what you listed?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:29 PM

Bad diets create a nutritional stress, this is correct. That's what I meant in my post.

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 09:14 PM

Not enough to make up for the sugar load?

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:53 PM

Also, can you define "liver and oysters regularly"?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:28 PM

Yeah I kinda thought, based on your post, that you focused more on seeing stress as *mental*, while usually when I'm under stress, it's purely physical. I read your post again and it looks like I was wrong :). My personality has changed a lot the last couple of months, I can control myself much more, and don't get mad easily. It's interesting to note that my grandfather was an extremely kind dude, and he ate tons of honey, milk and ice cream. Since doing the same thing I'm much more kind too, and it's almost hard to get angry at someone.

956bcad1d462d433a4e1e22f6e3355d5

(1191)

on May 28, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Can you please post in "our topic" where you get your liver and oysters? (http://paleohacks.com/questions/71145/epic-per-region-paleo-resources-thread-belgium#axzz1wAqPwhty)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 28, 2012
at 09:09 PM

One of the two daily, though sometimes even that's not enough.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 29, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Actually the sugar itself doesn't really increase my need for retinol that much, bright light (from infrared lightbulbs and the sun) and thyroid hormone increase it by a lot.

Ffd72922a42e5f5c663d9a189229299f

(139)

on May 30, 2012
at 07:47 PM

How do I supplement Thyroid hormone Korion? Might be a dumb question. Not that educated in what Thyroid really means. Also what would you advise for acne food and supplementing?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 08:41 PM

It's just thyroid hormone, but you really gotta educate yourself before experimenting with it, as this is way more potent than food and thus harder to control. I could write down a whole list of things you could do here, but it will just make you confused, unless you read Ray Peats articles. I found those entertaining anyways, they're well-written and completely changed the way I look at things. And they also answered a lot of questions I asked myself for years (for example why my 'intelligence' fluctuated throughout my life).

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on November 24, 2012
at 08:50 AM

BTW, I am using desiccated thyroid.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8

(1198)

on November 24, 2012
at 08:46 AM

Just as a follow up Korion. As I've found more of a balance between retinol supplementation and thryoid, things are doing way better. It's hard to strike the balance for me, and eating even small amounts liver every other day concerns me because of iron content. Sometimes I'll get weeks on end where my skin is invincible, and if I start to break out, I just up the retinol in the ratio.

3
C3bc92e6b5eba45dc55f43ac3c70cc25

on May 26, 2012
at 05:11 AM

If youre not craving seafood why are you bothering with it? No one is holding a gun to your head. You can paleo with other forms of meat.

1
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:22 AM

I have never had any severe acne so I cannot speak from the experience. However, I worked with a large body of teenagers and I have encountered many many students with acne. Some of them outgrew it, some not. Most teens who got better cleaned up their diets.

To tell you the truth, I do not even understand why you have to eat seafood? What about fish (if you like it)? Or meat (if you do not like fish)?

This is what I know some people recommended:

Korion posted that he got significantly better on Ray Peat's diet.

He also provided a link to this blog: http://www.thelovevitamin.com/about/

What I found very interesting she points out the amount of stress that contributes to developing acne. It makes perfect sense to me:

stress -> body reacts with producing hormones as a response -> inflammation -> acne as a sign of inflammation

Her observations are supported by some other answers I have seen.

Could be dealing with stress (including nutritional stress) be the answer to acne?

Again, I am in no position to give any advice but here is my take on it:

  1. Clean up your diet. Go for nutritionally dense foods.

  2. Take care of your gut. Maybe you need fermented foods? Sauerkraut is my favorite choice, but Koreans eat a lot of kimchi and their skin is quite clear. I am yet to see a Korean with a bad acne problem. Maybe you need enzymes or more papaya that acts as a natural enzyme? I do not know. Water kefir? Yogurt? Check with a naturopath if you find a good one. Bone broth does wonders for your stomach. Just make sure your gut flora is healthy. And no gluten, I hope it goes without saying.

  3. Reduce stress in your life. Meditation? Friends? Fun? It is your call. If you ever read the book "Why Zebras do not Get Ulcers" you will know that stress kills. If you are in a very stressful situation, brainstorm the ways you can alleviate your stress.

Don't worry. You will get it right one day!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 02:16 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3679247 *"The results show that cola has little if any spermicidal effect. Its use in postcoital douching is ineffective and could cause complications such as infection."*

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:11 AM

I've always wondered, along the lines of Danny, if there is nothing bad or abnormal for some genetically predisposed people to develop acne along with hormone surges. I had friends who got it, it cleared as they grew up, and moved on- my parents had clear skin however, so I never had to worry about it. Just curious if it is ever "just one of those things" about being a teenager, independent of health...I get what Danny is wondering, I just don't know anything about the answer!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:33 PM

I found this thread - not convinced about raw Paleo either.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:21 AM

If you were LC and VLC Paleo and then changed your diet to Ray Peats (there is definitely more carbs on Ray Peats'diet), it makes total sense to me why you are feeling much better on Ray Peats diet. We are not meant to be LC, and especially VLC. The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds? That's bullsh't if you tell me. My whole entire nation is built on berries. All Northern people consumed wild berries for centuries and now they are bad because they have tiny seeds? Where is the logic? Veggies were consumed for centuries too!!! Gelatin is good, but bone broth is even better.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 07:32 AM

Also, teens and acne do not go hand in hand in ALL cultures. If I were to live with bushmen, the first thing I would check is their teenagers. Do they have acne? If acne in hunter-gatherer teenagers is documented - I rest my case. Also (please do not misunderstand me but what I am about to say is true) - out of all different kids I have taught American kids get the worst of acne. Not sure why. SAD? Korean/Japanese that eat traditional food - none that I can remember. Even the ones that do not eat traditional food.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:32 PM

I already read that one. Not convinced. The only thing I see different he allows sugar, milk, cheese, coke, fruit juice, encourages gelatin, disapproves of veggies and berries, mango, fatty fish and olive oil. Makes no sense to me. By the way, were you ever a LC when you were doing Paleo? Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on Ray Peat - that makes total sense.

C3bc92e6b5eba45dc55f43ac3c70cc25

on May 26, 2012
at 05:31 AM

Good answer but, Wouldn't a hormones surge justify those teens acne?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:20 PM

You gotta understand that when I say *"Ray Peat is against"*, I'm not telling the truth, since he doesn't really label food as healthy or not. I just make those conclusions based on his articles. When I read his take on PUFA and started to dig a bit deeper into the Burr papers and all the related papers, I decided to cut out fish oil and fatty fish. I don't like those anyways. But that's just me. When he says PUFA he talks about seed oils. When he says plants he talks mostly about grains, though I decided to cut out veggies too. I think he makes broths with very well-cooked veggies ...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 02:16 PM

We probably are :), can you link a study about bone density, and also I mentioned the phosphoric acid they add to coke so you probably would want to drink pepsi. I'm not gonna fight with studies here, as I'm not qualified to do so, but the livestrong article you linked to kinda made me chuckle because (1) correlation != causation (sperm studies), (2) it's done with coca cola thus probably with HFCS and phosphoric acid (3) it didn't really say coca cola has been shown to produce bad effects but rather talks about caffeine and sugar (4) it's a livestrong article.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:13 AM

They ALL have hormonal surges. How come only some of them develop acne? And all people who develop it fit under the same type?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 02:28 PM

Could you please link me to Ray Peats meal plan? Not all this other stuff he said or recommends - I read tons of it, I just want a daily meal plan. I know Danny Roddy's meal plan, but... is it much different from Ray Peats? You are the only Peatarian on this board so.... Please?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:33 PM

Oh, and to douche with cola and to drink it every day are two different things, don't you think? So keep drinking as a form of natural birth control for men. He he he :))))

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:25 AM

Coke is good? That makes me so mad, I just want to.... never mind. No further comments. I am glad you are doing better on Ray Peats but let me assure you - you would just as good on high carb Paleo and Primal with fresh raw milk. I wonder where you get raw milk in Belgium - do they even sell it raw?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 08:21 PM

I'm totally not the only peatarian on this board :D!! Cliff, Danny Roddy, Edward Edmonds, Senneth, Bruno, and I think Kasra are too. The link you gave is not the best list you could find but Peat doesn't make guidelines. He just does science and you gotta read it and see for yourself what to do. Danny Roddy is pretty clear about it. A good description of the "diet" can be found here : http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=419742 I see diets like this : SAD < Raw Vegan < Paleo < Weston A Price < Peat. The most crucial thing of the diet is PUFAs.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:06 AM

I think the interaction between zinc and retinol plays a big role. Many americans are zinc-deficient due to a crappy diet. I personally had no success with zinc supplementation, but I was never deficient in it and it kinda gave me stomach aches to supplement it. I've tried reducing stress in my life too, but the number one thing that helped the most was following Peats diet to reduce stress. Now that I'm less susceptible to stress I also became more social, more confident, likely due to a new hormonal balance. I have noticed that I only crave one thing now, and that's social events.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:27 PM

I found this . Is this the right list?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:01 AM

(...) *- that makes total sense*?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:11 PM

It's not about natural, VB, but about optimal. Your whole nation didn't grow up with seed oils everywhere, did they? Ray isn't *against* veggies, he just says its possible they screw up one's digestion, same goes for nuts and seeds. Coke is not the best thing to eat but better than PUFA. You can assure everything you want, it's not just the carbs that did the magic. Cutting out as much PUFA as possible really helped, just like sugar clearly works better for me than starch. *Where is the logic* You have to read Ray Peat to answer that, I think his articles are pretty damn logic.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 03:31 PM

I don't care about the sperm, but bone density is FOR SURE!!! Also, any acidic substance will have SOME spermicidal effect. Even plain vinegar - but don't use it.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 12:25 PM

I also don't see why everyone labels coke as extremely bad. It's a bit bad for teeth, and its phosphorus content is very undesirable, but combine it with calcium and it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Just because it's artificial doesn't mean it's bad. I don't drink raw milk btw, can't find it, sometimes I drink pasteurized sometimes UHT.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 08:59 AM

I was LC paleo, VLC, ZC, then tried safe starches, then did fruity paleo, then introduced sugar, then introduced milk, ... What do you mean with *"Makes no sense to me*"? The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds, veggies are high in phosphorus and non-digestible stuff, fatty fish and olive oil are okay in moderation but are high in PUFA, gelatin is good as it lacks tryptophan and cysteine and has glycine, coke is good for its CO2, milk for its calcium, sugar because its sugar, ... And what do you mean with *"Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on RP"*?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 27, 2012
at 01:31 PM

Thanks for answering but I guess we are on the opposite sides of a Paleo spectrum. You don't see why everybody lables coke as extremely bad? How about losing bone density? How about this How about the amount of sugar?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 27, 2012
at 09:00 AM

I was LC paleo, VLC, ZC, then tried safe starches, then did fruity paleo, then introduced sugar, then introduced milk, ... What do you mean with *"Makes no sense to me"*? The berries are avoided because of their tiny seeds, veggies are high in phosphorus and non-digestible stuff, fatty fish and olive oil are okay in moderation but are high in PUFA, gelatin is good as it lacks tryptophan and cysteine and has glycine, coke is good for its CO2, milk for its calcium, sugar because its sugar, ... And what do you mean with *"Because if a person is not doing well on LC Paleo but doing well on RP"*?

0
9be5149ebf90fd4d0e2f6ec152cbbe5a

on March 03, 2013
at 02:10 AM

I found http://holistichealthherbalist.com/ to be pretty helpful in helping me clear up my acne. She talks about diet, skincare, and diet. At any rate it's worth a try =)

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on May 26, 2012
at 10:04 AM

Sadly two of my adult children take acne pills. Nothing else seems to help. I certainly found when I started having babies all skin problems healed up so presumably hormones play a part.

Try lots of sunshine and so get enough vitamin D too. Obviously eat well and clean out unhealthy foods.

0
5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 26, 2012
at 06:34 AM

Potatoes are in the solanaceae/nightshade family, along with peppers, tomatoes and eggplants. Many people are sensitive to the alkaloid compounds in nightshades, which create an inflammatory response--such as acne. So the potatoes might be a problem.

If you're eating a lot of fruit, that's a lot of sugar. Sugar is inflammatory, plus it feeds the bacteria that cause acne breakouts. Cut way back on the sugar in your diet by eating green vegetables instead of fruit, and see what happens.

And if you don't like fish, and you know iodine might exacerbate acne, then why the hell are you eating it?

ETA: And, I should add, your diet of potatoes, fruit, and fish seems very limited, as well as low in healthy fats. I strongly suggest eating a wider variety of foods, including different protein sources that you might enjoy more. Paleo's not a weird crash diet, but the way you're eating (as you've described it) almost sounds as if you're treating it as one.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 26, 2012
at 10:12 AM

Your view of sugar is too simplified and doesn't explain any of my anecdotes. Green veggies actually make me a bit worse. Not that much though. But I agree that potatoes could be an issue.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!